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| Who | What | When |
|---|---|---|
| *** | [FBI] starts logging #arpnetworks at Sun Feb 09 04:46:57 2014
[FBI] has joined #arpnetworks mike-bur1 is now known as mike-burns | [04:46] |
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| brycec | <.<
>.> No drop at ~6am, yay | [09:16] |
| mercutio | hah
yeh so it wsa just any2ix creating issues/ | [09:18] |
| m0unds | i'd say no
he mentioned memory corruption, so i'd guess that it's hw or less likely, an ios bug up_the_irons: TAC does do case-by-case TAC stuff, but it seems like not all of their support people have any idea how to even set it up. we had a series of HW issues in july, and since we don't keep TAC contracts (ime, they're worthless about 85% of the time), we had to escalate to a manager to get a one-time case opened | [09:20] |
| mercutio | it sucks when random traffic can crash a router | [09:30] |
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| brycec | It's a terrible router that can be crashed by random traffic :p | [09:46] |
| m0unds | yeah, and it's terrible when "support engineers" are paid to search through old support cases and KB entries hoping they can find somethign similar
and that during an environment down emergency they'll just tell you "sorry, we don't have a product engineer available because it's saturday; can you wait til monday for a callback?" mad awesome | [10:00] |
| mercutio | wow | [10:03] |
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| *** | FreeSpencer has joined #arpnetworks | [10:20] |
| FreeSpencer | Was there ever an east coast location with ARPNetworks? | [10:20] |
| mercutio | not yet
i think it's due to come this year | [10:20] |
| FreeSpencer | Has it always been LA? | [10:20] |
| mercutio | yeh | [10:20] |
| FreeSpencer | Hmm nvm then! | [10:21] |
| staticsafe | i told you FreeSpencer | [10:21] |
| *** | FreeSpencer has left "Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com" | [10:21] |
| staticsafe | lol | [10:21] |
| mercutio | what | [10:21] |
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| m0unds | hahaha
LA is..east of hawaii? | [10:36] |
| mike-burns | Yup. | [10:37] |
| mercutio | north east | [10:42] |
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| m0unds | i was meaning in the context of an "east" location, hahaha
i need a new office chair | [11:12] |
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| mercutio | oh right | [11:44] |
| brycec | I do too... Seemed like a fine chair when I bought it, but less than a year later the cylinder won't hold pressure (10 minutes is all it takes), and the right armrest doesn't attach to the back correctly anymore (leaning back is exciting). | [11:57] |
| mercutio | it's a pita shpopoing for new office chairs
most aren't very good and how are you meant to know if it'll fail in a year's time withotu researching my old chair lost gas acutally but it was also really worn by then adn it was about 7 years old i dunno how long they're meant to last | [12:03] |
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| toddf | anybody notice v6 issues?
I can ping6 google, but not facebook, and not my end of a he.net tunnel | [12:56] |
| mnathani | pinging fine for me facebook v6 | [12:58] |
| toddf | from your arpnetworks vps? | [12:58] |
| mnathani | yup
http://pastebin.com/cCTnCzXG could be due to your gigabit connectivity? | [13:01] |
| toddf | I'd expect google would not work then
can you ping6 0.v.freedaemon.com ? oh google doesn't work via v6 yeah likely something was not saved or something, the odd thing though is I see the v6 router http://sprunge.us/DXTG | [13:03] |
| mnathani | 5 packets transmitted, 0 received, 100% packet loss, time 4101ms ( 0.v.freedaemon.com ) | [13:07] |
| toddf | sent a support request. | [13:19] |
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| mnathani | Are you experiencing the same on all your vpsen?
I guess they are all in the same VLAN | [13:55] |
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| m0unds | mercutio: yea, i had my previous one for 9 years..it was a cheapie, but it was uncomfortable by about year 4. i just couldn't find any i liked, so i gave up on it | [14:28] |
| mercutio | my chair is annyoing me
but it's liek $700 for a good chair | [14:28] |
| m0unds | i just bought some commercial grade one like i have at work | [14:29] |
| CaZe | Build your own tractor seat chair. | [14:29] |
| m0unds | haha
officemax had a $30 off coupon thing, so this one ended up being almost $150 off w/their office furniture promotion | [14:32] |
| mercutio | http://www.wired.com/reviews/2013/06/office-chair-gallery/ | [14:35] |
| BryceBot | Wired: "You're Gonna Want to Sit Down for This: 6 High-End Desk Chairs Reviewed | Product Reviews | Wired.com" | [14:35] |
| m0unds | brycec: does BryceBot have URL shortening capabilities?
haha, nice chairs cheapest one is only roughly 175% of the cost of this one, hahahaha | [14:36] |
| mercutio | see they're all expensive | [14:39] |
| m0unds | yea
http://www.officemax.com/catalog/2013/Customs/WorkPro/cst-workpro-chair4.png | [14:39] |
| mercutio | i thought i should splash out on a chair sometime | [14:39] |
| CaZe | I'm perfectly comfortable withot armrests. | [14:39] |
| mercutio | but i'd want to do enoqugh research | [14:39] |
| m0unds | i can go either way - arm rests get in the way of my desk
also, my cat likes armrests | [14:40] |
| mercutio | that looks like my chair sort of | [14:40] |
| m0unds | he likes to stand up and paw at my arm to get my attention | [14:40] |
| mercutio | only sort of
the back looks diff | [14:40] |
| m0unds | i wasn't a fan of mesh backs at first, but i grew to like how well it breathes | [14:40] |
| mercutio | i have mesh with a soft headrest type thing | [14:40] |
| m0unds | especially when it's warm
yeah - that's how my work one is, has a mesh headrest i'm too tall for that though, so i just removed it | [14:40] |
| mercutio | it's that where you sit down is to thin that seems to my biggest issue | [14:41] |
| CaZe | http://www.target.com/p/tractor-chair-black/-/A-13704390?ref=tgt_adv_XSG10001&AFID=Google_PLA_df&LNM=%7C13704390&CPNG=Furniture&kpid=13704390&LID=PA&ci_src=17588969&ci_sku=13704390&gclid=CKDU5r6OwLwCFUcV7AodRS4ALw | [14:41] |
| mercutio | and tends to thin in the middle after owning longer | [14:41] |
| CaZe | I used to have that. | [14:41] |
| mercutio | now that i think about it it's probably fixable
i suppose you could probably open it up and replace whatever cushion type thing is in there | [14:41] |
| CaZe | I was perfectly comfortable in it, but the plastic eventually cracked in the seat.
I bought a metal tractor seat off of ebay with the intention of replacing it. Never got around to it though. | [14:42] |
| mercutio | arctulaly it looks like it's not that easy
and would involve unscrewing the bottom | [14:42] |
| m0unds | yea, or the cushion might be glued in place and screwed in place | [14:43] |
| mercutio | it doesn't matter if it glued | [14:43] |
| m0unds | like, wood board with cushion and upholstery glued to it, then the whole thing screwed into the base | [14:43] |
| mercutio | you just pack another one on in middle | [14:43] |
| CaZe | TWSS | [14:44] |
| BryceBot | Okay! twss! 'you just pack another one on in middle' | [14:44] |
| mercutio | the thing is i don't even weigh a lot | [14:44] |
| m0unds | the upholstery would probably fail and it'd look like you beat the stuffing out of the seat, hahaha | [14:44] |
| mercutio | i must sit a lot ;/ | [14:44] |
| m0unds | hahahaha
get one of those kneeling seats http://vvro.us/1f7JlPB they look goofy it's like a bicycle seat and part of a massage chair or something | [14:44] |
| mercutio | oh i tried one of those once | [14:45] |
| CaZe | Can't wank in those. | [14:46] |
| mercutio | never got used to it | [14:46] |
| m0unds | you could, but you'd probably break your kneck
neck* kneck? wtf. | [14:46] |
| mercutio | i dno't think the one i used had wheels | [14:46] |
| m0unds | m0unds sighs
yeah, i'd think the wheels would make it more dangerous | [14:46] |
| mercutio | i like the idea of a standing desk
have you guys heard of that? | [14:46] |
| m0unds | yeah, i did that for a few weeks | [14:46] |
| mercutio | how'd it go? | [14:47] |
| m0unds | raised my workstation up to chest level
pretty well, but i found that it was hard to get my displays quite right i have them on arms, but they didn't have enough tilt to get them to where i could look at them naturally | [14:47] |
| mercutio | hmm
now that you mention it i'd probably have that issue too | [14:47] |
| m0unds | my legs felt great though
haha | [14:47] |
| mercutio | i want to try it
but my desk can't raise that high heh | [14:47] |
| m0unds | put another desk on top of your desk | [14:48] |
| mercutio | did your normal desk support it?
that soudns dangerous | [14:48] |
| m0unds | only if you don't anchor that sucker | [14:48] |
| mercutio | earthquakes don't happen here, but wheer i used to live i had to move from because of earthquakes
so i'm paranoid now | [14:48] |
| m0unds | yeah, my desk at work is adjustable for height | [14:49] |
| mercutio | like i'm always thinking where things might fall :) | [14:49] |
| m0unds | http://www.katu.com/news/local/Snow-plow-rolls-blocks-Highway-105--244634991.html yeesh | [14:49] |
| mercutio | is the US still screwed up by weather?
it was like < 0c highs when i last looked | [14:49] |
| m0unds | it's 65F here today; should be 30-40 | [14:50] |
| mercutio | i forgot the command | [14:50] |
| m0unds | @wa 65F in C
i think | [14:50] |
| mercutio | 65f is 18.3c | [14:50] |
| BryceBot | convert 65 °F (degrees Fahrenheit) to degrees Celsius;18.33 °C (degrees Celsius);291.48 K (kelvins);524.67 °R (degrees Rankine);14.667 °Ré (degrees Réaumur);17.125 °Rø (degrees Rømer);1.667 °C below temperature at STP (standard temperature and pressure), using the National Institute of Standards and Technology convention (20 °C);2.778 °C above temperature at STP (standard temperature and pressure), using the US customary convent | [14:50] |
| mercutio | so slightly cold | [14:50] |
| m0unds | @wa 30F in C
^ that's what it should be | [14:50] |
| BryceBot | convert 30 °F (degrees Fahrenheit) to degrees Celsius;-1.111 °C (degrees Celsius);272.04 K (kelvins);489.67 °R (degrees Rankine);-0.88889 °Ré (degrees Réaumur);6.9167 °Rø (degrees Rømer);1.111 °C below melting point of water ice (at standard pressure) (0 °C);1.111 °C below temperature at STP (standard temperature and pressure), using the International Union of Pure and Applied Chemistry convention (0 °C);1.11 °C below ice poin | [14:50] |
| mercutio | @wa 0c in f | [14:50] |
| m0unds | 32 | [14:50] |
| BryceBot | convert 0 °C (degrees Celsius) to degrees Fahrenheit;32 °F (degrees Fahrenheit);273.15 K (kelvins);491.67 °R (degrees Rankine);0 °Ré (degrees Réaumur);7.5 °Rø (degrees Rømer);= melting point of water ice (at standard pressure) (0 °C);= temperature at STP (standard temperature and pressure), using the International Union of Pure and Applied Chemistry convention (0 °C);~~ ice point of water (273.15 K);temperature;[temperature];Ther | [14:50] |
| m0unds | i know that offhand
haha | [14:50] |
| mercutio | oh | [14:51] |
| m0unds | but yea, should be around that as a high where i live, but it's been in the 60s on and off for two weeks | [14:51] |
| mercutio | nice | [14:51] |
| m0unds | driving me nuts
i want snow | [14:51] |
| mercutio | so do i
it's only 23c here atm but it might get hotter :( i wish it could abbbbbbbereviate 23c=73.4f heh my repeat value a bit high do you ever get stuck at work? by snow | [14:51] |
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| m0unds | umm, i've gotten stuck there twice
once for ice and once for snow biggest snow i can remember here was ~60cm or so | [15:18] |
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| brycec | Haha, it does, but they're not enabled (last I checked). BryceBot only has URL de-shortening :D 14:35:21 >> m0unds<< brycec: does BryceBot have URL shortening capabilities?
(Because brycec hates shortened URLs) | [16:02] |
| mercutio | haha debian is falling apart | [16:12] |
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| jbergstroem | mercutio: init debacle you mean? | [16:53] |
| mercutio | up_the_irons: yes
people are asking Ian to resign. https://lists.debian.org/debian-ctte/2014/02/msg00363.html it's like a university. on a positive note i figured out how to get notrack to work. | [17:00] |
| m0unds | mo drammuh | [17:01] |
| mercutio | i want to see systemd go ahead. | [17:01] |
| m0unds | i just wanna see something modern and well engineered
but OMGZ NAHT INIT NAHT GUN UZE IT | [17:02] |
| mercutio | well i find systemd a little confusing
but it has grown on me over time and nearly everyone except ubuntu is using it and ubuntu seems to just want to do things differently for the sake of it i also want to see waylong go ahead rather than mir | [17:02] |
| m0unds | yea, i felt the same way about systemd, but it makes a lot of sense in a lot of ways
and i like how you can specify dependencies for startup and stuff | [17:03] |
| mercutio | i still haven't found a linux i really like
i've started using arch for personal systems but i don't think it's really suitable for critical systems not really a fan of ubuntu, centos, or debian. debian and centos have outdated packages. ubuntu at least has 2 yearly long term versions, but has a few annoying things so in the end i end up using ubuntu anyway. but it doesn't mean it's ideal. i kind of think debian has to look at two year release cycle or such actually it looks like it does have two year release cycle now i thin it was woody -> sarge when i moved to ubuntu | [17:04] |
| jpalmer | mercutio: outdated packages == system stability. keep in mind, they do backport security fixes | [17:10] |
| mercutio | yeah i had problems with php 4 and apache 1.3 ?
debian was quite far behind with php that said i shifted to ubuntu 6 monthly rather than two yearly php is a bit of a nightmare though | [17:10] |
| jpalmer | jpalmer uses CentOS at work. | [17:11] |
| mercutio | do you like centos? | [17:11] |
| jpalmer | yeah, I personally avoid PHP like the devil. | [17:11] |
| m0unds | if your hw is supported by debian or centos, it works great
but modern raid cards and stuff can be a huge hassle | [17:11] |
| mercutio | i kind of would like to see things like tmux stay current
or be included | [17:12] |
| m0unds | depending on mfgr | [17:12] |
| mercutio | whereas core thingss can be a bit more stable
i've been using custom kernels for a while now m0unds: that advice was valid 15 years ago | [17:12] |
| jpalmer | mercutio: At this point, all of the unixen are very similar to me. I use puppet, so.. I just define what I think the system should look like.. and puppet "makes it happen" | [17:12] |
| mercutio | is it still the way it is? :) | [17:12] |
| m0unds | it's still valid.
haha puppet is great | [17:12] |
| mercutio | the annoying thing i foundwith centos is it had lots of braindead config by default which required tweaking
i like openbsd having bare config, but still keeping important things there | [17:13] |
| m0unds | lots of LSI cards have issues with 2.6.x kernels, as much as that shouldn't happen | [17:13] |
| mercutio | interetsing | [17:13] |
| m0unds | it does and it's annoying | [17:14] |
| mercutio | lsi 9211 is fine isn't it? | [17:14] |
| jpalmer | mercutio: I don't really consider that a valid concern/issue. as an admin, I very rarely ever install anything, and leave a default config. tweaking and such are a fact of life | [17:14] |
| mercutio | true i just feel like it's nice when systems depart from defaults in known ways. .
i think it was things like ntp from memory | [17:14] |
| m0unds | no idea, but a client of mine managed to find three separate lsi card models made in the last 2 years that would crash and die pretty regularly | [17:14] |
| mercutio | m0unds: ouch. | [17:15] |
| m0unds | i thought it was the disks at first, but then noticed that happened with every disk we tried | [17:15] |
| mercutio | i saw a problem with lsi and western digital disks
i was wondering what was happening :/ but in the end it magically worked with seagate disks | [17:15] |
| m0unds | yeah, that sort of behavior is total crap in 2014
hahaha | [17:16] |
| mercutio | yeah this was older hardware
but still i tried emailing lsi and western digital western digital don't have any alternative firmwares or firmware updates | [17:16] |
| m0unds | yeah, they only make firmware updates available if they screw something up during production
at least that's been my exp with them | [17:16] |
| mercutio | lsi won't support cards that use their chipset | [17:16] |
| jpalmer | jpalmer ponders spinning up a VM to play with katello | [17:16] |
| mercutio | i think it was intel lsi card | [17:17] |
| m0unds | m0unds has no idea what katello is
oh, neat | [17:17] |
| mercutio | it's kind of bad there's only wd and seagate making disks now imo | [17:17] |
| m0unds | sounds like fun | [17:17] |
| mercutio | i never used to try emailing vendors
but i've tried a bit recently asrock have been the best so far | [17:18] |
| m0unds | i've heard their support is really good | [17:18] |
| jpalmer | m0unds: foreman, pulp, candlepin, puppet | [17:19] |
| jbergstroem | an interesting point on the debian thing is that people probably see it [debian] as different things. arguments on cross-os is probably aligned towards package management and set of rules while others just want "one" operating system. | [17:20] |
| m0unds | jpalmer: yeah, was just checking out the project's site - sounds neat
i changed my knobset for my garage entry door and keep locking myself out of the house whoops, wrong channel haha | [17:20] |
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| acf_ | the packet loss on NTT has gotten really bad
http://kremvax.acfsys.net/smokeping.cgi?target=Remote.comcast6net http://kremvax.acfsys.net/smokeping.cgi?target=Remote.verizon-snloca | [19:12] |
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| mercutio | wow
are you sure it's not some icmp limit? you're not pinging a comcast router are you | [19:27] |
| acf_ | no, that's comcast.com | [19:29] |
| mercutio | it still might be deprioritisng
i'm doing mtr to that now see how the hop before doesn't have packet loss oh now it does haha ok i think it is prob an issue | [19:29] |
| acf_ | yeah, my mtrs can confirm that | [19:29] |
| mercutio | oh that's strange my route is via akamai from home | [19:29] |
| m0unds | ntt is a lot more jittery for me than nlayer, haha | [19:30] |
| mercutio | oh you need to leave off www
yeah they been havving issues recently it seems it seems to come and go a bit | [19:30] |
| acf_ | this is really bad though | [19:30] |
| mercutio | hmm comcast is fine from home
but it's not going via ntt ikr i hadn't seen issues on arp i think it's random like some ip's may be hit worse than others | [19:30] |
| acf_ | that's what it seems like | [19:31] |
| mercutio | so yeh 0%packet loss with 100 pings from home
7.1% with 111 packets from arp | [19:31] |
| acf_ | I think it's the return path | [19:32] |
| mercutio | it's hard to check that
but i can check a different forward path | [19:32] |
| acf_ | well, the return path when pinging comcast->arp | [19:32] |
| m0unds | return to arp via comcast?
lemme do that (comcast in albuquerque here) | [19:32] |
| mercutio | ok got a ntt forward path | [19:32] |
| acf_ | http://paste.unixcube.org/k/ccdaba | [19:32] |
| mercutio | it's being problematic sntraight away | [19:33] |
| m0unds | my outbound path is via nlayer | [19:33] |
| acf_ | same here | [19:33] |
| mercutio | restarting it in case it was "getting used to" new traffic | [19:33] |
| m0unds | it got weird after that last reboot | [19:33] |
| mercutio | ntt is random | [19:33] |
| m0unds | return path from arp to comcast used to be symmetrical | [19:33] |
| mercutio | it seems to randomly have issues on/off | [19:33] |
| m0unds | so, nlayer out, nlayer back | [19:33] |
| mercutio | yeah i'm definitely htiting it with forward path via ntt
but not via verizon well on the positive side it's easier to route around if up_the_irons will do so | [19:33] |
| acf_ | is up_the_irons planning on making level3 the default outbound path? | [19:34] |
| mercutio | mind you there's that annaying 100k route limit
i imagine comcast has some big subnets there's about 560 comcast routes oh less than that cos double ups etc about 180 | [19:35] |
| staticsafe | arp networks has level3? | [19:36] |
| mercutio | they're getting it | [19:36] |
| staticsafe | :o | [19:36] |
| mercutio | contract signed, but not in yet
i assume it shouldn't take that long but you never know | [19:37] |
| staticsafe | yay for more variety | [19:37] |
| m0unds | http://pastebin.com/8CDG5nAg | [19:37] |
| mercutio | i thin kit's actually as6453 creating the isssue btw
i've seen issues with as6453 before but that was to europe of course that's a hunch rather than antyhing proven | [19:38] |
| m0unds | yea, tata sucks
comcast has a funny thing w/tata they're where comcast traffic goes when you don't want to peer directly with comcast | [19:38] |
| mercutio | comcast has a funny thing with cogent too
i would say that comcast suck and no-one should care but i realise comcast is all most people have available other than at&t dsl :/ | [19:39] |
| m0unds | you don't know too much about us telecom :P | [19:39] |
| mercutio | i know a bit | [19:39] |
| m0unds | there's lots of options, comcast is the best in most areas | [19:39] |
| mercutio | there's verizon fios and cox in some areas
but for instance san jose has just got comcast and at&t | [19:39] |
| m0unds | cox sucks, verizon isn't great and their installers like setting stuff on fire | [19:40] |
| mercutio | but yeah i don't know that much
cox use cogent verizon use vdsl? | [19:40] |
| staticsafe | my friend in Charlotte, NC has either AT&T DSL or TWC | [19:40] |
| acf_ | verizon is adsl2 | [19:40] |
| m0unds | verizon vdsl2 or fios
err, adsl2 | [19:40] |
| mercutio | i know that at&t suck | [19:40] |
| m0unds | yea, twc is bad | [19:40] |
| mercutio | staticsafe: is twc any good? | [19:40] |
| m0unds | they can't afford to upgrade systems
they're way behind | [19:41] |
| staticsafe | no idea, I'm not in the US either :p | [19:41] |
| m0unds | they almost were part of a hostile takeover | [19:41] |
| mercutio | heh | [19:41] |
| m0unds | because their customers hate them | [19:41] |
| mercutio | nice | [19:41] |
| m0unds | but they're now being forced to actually start investing in infrastructure | [19:41] |
| staticsafe | not much better over in Ontario, Canada though :( | [19:41] |
| m0unds | http://stopthecap.com/2014/01/30/time-warner-cable-plans-to-triple-broadband-speeds-if-they-survive-a-hostile-takeover/
err wrong link http://www.theverge.com/2014/1/27/5351082/charter-reportedly-selling-comcast-twc-assets-if-buyout-succeeds that was the one i wanted to link stupid chrome | [19:42] |
| BryceBot | The Verge: "Comcast reportedly wants to nab millions of customers from Time Warner Cable" | [19:43] |
| staticsafe | well at least i don't have any usage caps | [19:44] |
| m0unds | haha, neither do i | [19:44] |
| mercutio | i like usage caps
i'd rather have fast net than congested net | [19:45] |
| staticsafe | Jan 8/14 - Feb 7/14 826GB | [19:45] |
| mercutio | that said i don't have cap
but i like other people to have caps so my net keeps going fast | [19:46] |
| staticsafe | lol. | [19:46] |
| m0unds | show interfaces terse
err, wrong terminal | [19:46] |
| mercutio | dd if=/dev/urandom of=/dev/sd....
i love trying to explain to people how to extract tarballs and then they ask what every bit does :/ xz -dc blah.tar.xz | tar -vxf - etc i don't even know if tar has an option for xz yet | [19:46] |
| acf_ | tar -xvZf ? | [19:48] |
| mercutio | does that do xz
i kind of got appehensive when it was I and j for bzip2 and then you found a system that had neither | [19:48] |
| m0unds | haha, 248.94GB down, 23.66 up | [19:49] |
| mercutio | hmm
4.7 gig yesterday, 8 gig the ady before yeh i think i'm a light user | [19:49] |
| m0unds | and roughly 13.8% of my traffic was ipv6 | [19:50] |
| mercutio | how do you work that out? | [19:50] |
| m0unds | it's tunneled, so i just graph the ipip if on my srx | [19:50] |
| mercutio | some days i only do 1.3gig
oh i see | [19:50] |
| m0unds | so it's an approximation, but i'd say it's reasonable
most of that is probably netflix, oddly enough | [19:51] |
| mercutio | yah
i reckon 500gb caps all around isn't a bad idea and pay a little more for 2tb cap or something or even 250 gig for light | [19:51] |
| m0unds | i pay a little more for "business internet", and it has no cap | [19:51] |
| mercutio | but i am against the idea of 1 gig 5 gig etc caps | [19:51] |
| m0unds | comcast's 3mbit-16mbit usage tiers are 250gb cap
50mbit is 500gb and i think 100mbit is 1tb or something | [19:52] |
| mercutio | seems reasonable
can everyone get 50 megabit | [19:52] |
| m0unds | major metros can, yep | [19:52] |
| mercutio | so no | [19:53] |
| m0unds | i think most markets support up to 16mbit | [19:53] |
| mercutio | so can you pay extra on a 3 to 16 megabit plan to get more than 250gb? | [19:53] |
| m0unds | doubt it
well actually if you pay an extra like $15/mo, you can get biz svc and have no cap | [19:53] |
| mercutio | and static ip? | [19:54] |
| m0unds | $20 for no cap and static IP | [19:54] |
| mercutio | ahh ok
i'd probably just do that if i had to use comcast my frieend is on comcast it didn't seem that good though 50 msec pings from sj to sj high jitter throughput to arp was ok though | [19:54] |
| m0unds | sounds like routing is silly | [19:55] |
| mercutio | i think 20 msec to arp
yeah | [19:55] |
| m0unds | i ping 9ms to denver | [19:55] |
| mercutio | it's screwed to cogent :/ | [19:55] |
| m0unds | that's ~400mi from me | [19:56] |
| mercutio | but seems to have high affinity for cogent or something | [19:56] |
| m0unds | and i ping 30ms to los angeles, and that's twice as far as denver
oh shit, hahah i switched over to hbo and didn't realize for almost 5 minutes that it was hbo latino | [19:56] |
| mercutio | m0unds: wow that's good
my friend in kansas had terrible routing evernyything went via chicago or texas or both and neither had very low pings | [20:05] |
| staticsafe | 80ms for me via v4 to ARP | [20:07] |
| mercutio | which is why i thought it was curious google were doing fibreeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee
erk my computer crashed ;/ i was trying to undervolt to try and get it to run cooler i think i need another fan though it's like 40c system | [20:11] |
| m0unds | google's doing screwy stuff to deploy fiber | [20:12] |
| mercutio | i dont' think kansas has very good routing | [20:12] |
| m0unds | it's kind of the middle of nowhere, haha | [20:12] |
| mercutio | i didn't have lots of destinations to try, but there's joes data centre for instance
which would go via texas or something | [20:12] |
| m0unds | https://transmission.xmission.com/2013/04/18/the-1-fiber-optic-network | [20:13] |
| mercutio | he wasn't in kansas city
wichita which doesnt' maen a lot to me i looked on google maps, and it looked desolate | [20:13] |
| m0unds | yeah
haha us is kinda big | [20:13] |
| mercutio | he had a few internet options that sucked differently
i think it's 140 msec to arp for me and like 200 to 220 msec to him but it's like 200 to 220 to east coast too and can be 160 to texas, 180 to chicago etc | [20:14] |
| staticsafe | ouch | [20:15] |
| mercutio | texas seems to be one of the best places for routing i've found
less outages, less congestion etc | [20:16] |
| m0unds | yea, well connected, especially DFW | [20:16] |
| mercutio | but that's from external pov | [20:16] |
| m0unds | atlanta is pretty good too, depending on the facility | [20:16] |
| mercutio | but kansas, atlanta, , florida etc are bad
i found routing often got indirect to atlanta virginia is better | [20:16] |
| m0unds | i'm 60ms to atlanta, or 65ms to VA
haha | [20:17] |
| mercutio | and like tampa would often go via miami | [20:17] |
| staticsafe | everything US basically goes through Chicago for me | [20:17] |
| mercutio | atlanta to tampa would go like via virgina and miami if you're lucky
otherwise it'd go via chicago or new york you're in canada? | [20:18] |
| staticsafe | yea | [20:18] |
| mercutio | hmm | [20:18] |
| m0unds | toronto? | [20:18] |
| staticsafe | yes | [20:18] |
| mercutio | i thought most canada stuff went through seattle or new york | [20:18] |
| staticsafe | seattle if west coast | [20:18] |
| mercutio | but chicago is probably better
seattle routing from here isn't wonderful luckily hardly anything is in seattle :) other than valve when the east coast had flooding europe connectivity was really broken from here though cos like europe goes via west coast us east coast us and lots of stuff went down i think there's a path to europe via japan? but the vast majority relies on new yorkish and somewhere south of there which is also exposed but it's a bit crazy when things 10s of thousands of km away can effect you maybe they will find a way to put fibre thorugh the core of the earth one day | [20:19] |
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| up_the_irons | acf_: we run full routing tables, so there really isn't a strict default outbound path | [21:06] |
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| up_the_irons | mercutio: m0unds : yeah but it crashed within 24 hours of having the any2ix circuit spanned to it. all three times. i've since removed it, and no crash.
m0unds: noted on single TAC case, thanks | [21:09] |
| m0unds | up_the_irons: good luck - that's so weird though w/the any2ix circuit | [21:11] |
| up_the_irons | m0unds: mercutio : i also had probs with LSI cards
jpalmer: pulp and candlepin? i gotta google those... | [21:16] |
| m0unds: might not be so weird if it is an IOS bug. just need to get a newer one and try it.
m0unds: may have not liked some traffic on that shared network. lots of crap tends to come through IX's ;) | [21:21] | |
| m0unds | haha, true | [21:22] |
| up_the_irons | $ sudo ./birdcl sh p | grep Est
AS45177 BGP master up 04:51:03 Established AS40528 BGP master up 04:51:02 Established AS4739 BGP master up 04:51:52 Established AS15133 BGP master up 04:51:03 Established AS6939 BGP master up 04:51:05 Established AS11798 BGP master up 04:51:03 Established AS20144 BGP master up 04:51:02 Established AS46489 BGP master up 04:51:04 Established AS20161 BGP master up 14:20:24 Established $ First few Any2 peers on BIRD :) | [21:23] |
| m0unds | nice | [21:26] |
| up_the_irons | grepidemic: taking this public
grepidemic: BUT, for logging, the complexity might be too much (we're talking about journald) grepidemic: that part is kinda neat, yes | [21:28] |
| grepidemic | it is pretty intuitive though. just have to learn the arguments for journalctl
the arch wiki has a really simplistic rundown of it https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/systemd#Journal | [21:29] |
| up_the_irons | grepidemic: neat | [21:32] |
| grepidemic | i'm dont know everything about systemd yet, but just from looking at journald, i can get used to it. | [21:32] |
| up_the_irons | this part sounds brittle, "If you or some program delete that directory, systemd will not recreate it automatically; however, it will be recreated during the next update of the systemd package. Until then, logs will be written to /run/systemd/journal, and logs will be lost on reboot" | [21:32] |
| grepidemic | the probability that debian testing will be using systemd prompted me to read more into it. | [21:33] |
| jbergstroem | I kinda dislike systemd removing choice of syslogger from hte equation | [21:33] |
| up_the_irons | wow it uses btrfs | [21:33] |
| jbergstroem | but that's systemd philosophy in general | [21:33] |
| up_the_irons | the large amount of changes makes me uncomfortable | [21:34] |
| jbergstroem | I'm (fortunately) on a os where I can choose to avoid systemd if I have to. Will probably revisit down the road | [21:34] |
| grepidemic | it is a big change... but it is looking like systemd will be the default for most linus distros in the near future.
all the big ones at least. i think syslog-ng can be used with systemd/journald | [21:35] |
| up_the_irons | grepidemic: they'll probably tune down the changes though, or introduce them more slowly | [21:37] |
| grepidemic | there is still a long list of bugs in systemd.
much longer than sysvinit | [21:38] |
| jbergstroem | this made the rounds today as well: http://ewontfix.com/14/ | [21:38] |
| acf_ | up_the_irons: it seems that NTT is having a lot of issues with Comcast and Verizon atm
http://kremvax.acfsys.net/smokeping.cgi?target=Remote.comcastnet http://kremvax.acfsys.net/smokeping.cgi?target=Remote.verizon-snloca | [21:41] |
| up_the_irons | acf_: can you provide forward and reverse path? if possible | [21:42] |
| acf_ | of course | [21:42] |
| grepidemic | regarding having to reboot after an update, it looks like systemd can be restarted with "systemctl daemon-reload" | [21:45] |
| m0unds | yea
when packages make changes to systemd startup configs, you have to reload the daemon too or if you add a new service, say you install nginx or something - you'll reload the daemon and it'll become aware of nginx and allow you to control it | [21:48] |
| acf_ | comcast: http://paste.unixcube.org/k/bf88a3
verizon: http://paste.unixcube.org/k/78f880 | [21:50] |
| m0unds | but it detects that something's different and prompts you to reload it (at least in the case of arch) | [21:50] |
| up_the_irons | acf_: thanks
acf_: some of those routers might rate limit ICMP (we do also) | [21:53] |
| grepidemic | my stance on systemd is still neutral, but i do really like journald. i would use it with sysvinit if that is possible (i'm gonna go look that up). | [21:57] |
| mercutio | up_the_irons: for stuff passing through?
up_the_irons: i adjusted trafic to send out via ntt and hit the same issue with reverse path intact and wasn't seeing packet loss normally it could be rate limiting sending icmp through, it does happen, but i don't think it's likely and i've seen more than one weird ntt packet loss issue recently | [21:57] |
| up_the_irons | mercutio: well, traceroutes never really "pass thru"; what you see is the response to the TTL dying, and some of those ICMPs will be dropped by CPU rate limiting | [21:58] |
| mercutio | and i know it slows ssh down and that's when i notice teh packet loss in mtr
up_the_irons: yehn but it's to every hop until the destination including the destination | [21:58] |
| up_the_irons | mercutio: ok, if ssh slows, then that is more of a concern | [21:58] |
| mercutio | usually if it's rate limiting you'll see like 20% 20% 0%
or such or 20% 15% 0% 35% etc | [21:58] |
| jbergstroem | grepidemic: guessing no | [21:59] |
| mercutio | like often one hop doesn't rate limiting icmp as much | [21:59] |
| acf_ | a normal 1 second interval ping shows packet loss here | [21:59] |
| mercutio | err rate likmit | [21:59] |
| up_the_irons | you may want to contact their NOC (noc@us.ntt.net) | [21:59] |
| mercutio | i know it's psuedo science
up_the_irons: it was too diff destination i saw ssh packet loss err ssh lag i can't ssh to comcast and it was very on/off | [21:59] |
| up_the_irons | starbucks kicking me out (closing), bbiab | [21:59] |
| mercutio | nlayer rate limit a lot of icmp btw
it's annoying :/ | [22:00] |
| acf_ | fwiw, NTT noc says "
We are not seeing any packet loss within our network. To investigate this issue further please contact your upstream provider." | [22:00] |
| mercutio | haha
shit i don't think it's necessarily ntt's fault in this instance | [22:03] |
| acf_ | my guess is overloaded interconnects | [22:03] |
| mercutio | we determined it could be tata
it's relaly hard to know | [22:03] |
| acf_ | how about NTT <-> Verizon | [22:04] |
| mercutio | cos of what up_the_irons said about icmp rate limiting
got a test destination? | [22:04] |
| acf_ | yeah | [22:04] |
| mercutio | ok tell me i'll test it
but i'll make another coffee first :) | [22:04] |
| acf_ | 72.55.8.69 for comcast
108.40.173.223 for verizon (beware super slow dsl) but no packet loss to google | [22:05] |
| mercutio | i repeated the comcast issue | [22:06] |
| acf_ | I agree it's probably not in the NTT backbone | [22:06] |
| mercutio | ok verizon normal path is via alter.net
(verizon) which a little jitter is AS2914 ntt yip cool verizon looks fine too via ntt which means it's prob reverse path if chornically bad oh no some packet loss | [22:06] |
| acf_ | it seems like the loss is only at the lax verizon <-> NTT exchange btw | [22:09] |
| mercutio | it's not nearly as bad as that comcast one was | [22:09] |
| acf_ | I get http://paste.unixcube.org/k/e57747 | [22:10] |
| mercutio | the jitter is worse via ntt too
this is via lax i screwed my up my other route i don't think i can send via sj oh i can send via sj interesting via san jose only seeing packet loss on last hop and in betwen hops err and some early ones which always depriortise but via los angeles seing it on last 3 hops err 4 hops but i changed source ip gah | [22:10] |
| acf_ | yep. that's what I've been seeing | [22:11] |
| mercutio | last 4 hops? | [22:12] |
| acf_ | yeah | [22:12] |
| mercutio | why am i only seeing last hop
bah i'll fowrad it through oso i can keep to same source address the jitter is def worse via ntt ok last two hops now and it's either wose right now or sj is worse than la for forward path with reverse path combined too i'm seeing 17% packet loss | [22:12] |
| acf_ | http://paste.unixcube.org/k/78f880
the bottom one basically describes what I've been seeing for the last few days | [22:14] |
| mercutio | yeah that's what i was seeing orig
hangon i'll pastebin actually what's your paste thing :) | [22:14] |
| acf_ | http://paste.unixcube.org/
runs from arp | [22:15] |
| mercutio | heh
cool http://paste.unixcube.org/k/e57f7a it went down a bit so sampling bias :) it seems like it gets better and worse | [22:15] |
| acf_ | yeah, that's been happening a lot for me | [22:16] |
| mercutio | so ok, it doesn't matter if it's sj or la
and it's better over alter.net i'll shift it back to alter.net and wait a minute or two oh only being last two hops i think is cos shorter route? i having problems cutting grr i hate linux cutg and pate paste http://paste.unixcube.org/k/7dfe16 weird going from top to bottom fixed it | [22:16] |
| acf_ | that one looks nice | [22:20] |
| mercutio | oh i got a packet dropped
that's like what was happeing with comcast too :/ | [22:20] |
| acf_ | maybe my crappy dsl
http://paste.unixcube.org/k/8ad869 | [22:20] |
| mercutio | well the first one had depriorisation on some hops | [22:20] |
| acf_ | packet loss stops when return path changes (NTT <-> Verizon in Dallas instead of LAX) | [22:20] |
| mercutio | but still packet loss to destination is WAY down
and the source ip remained the same so basically it doesn't matter if it goes via sj or la from ntt they both suck but alter.net is fine well when i talk about fowrard path you're talking about return path right forward path for me is my traffic going to your dsl and return path for you is traffic coming to you | [22:21] |
| acf_ | yep, I'm switching them | [22:22] |
| mercutio | ok so dallas is better | [22:22] |
| acf_ | yeah | [22:23] |
| mercutio | los angeles and san jose may share some hidden path
like i don't know what city you in but i'm sure it's not in california | [22:23] |
| acf_ | lsanca == San Luis Obispo, CA | [22:23] |
| mercutio | so there's probably an in between point hidden
you are in california? | [22:23] |
| acf_ | everything from here goes though lax
yep verizon dsl sucks | [22:23] |
| mercutio | dude your internet sucks
i have better pings to new york :/ | [22:23] |
| acf_ | sometimes it's not as bad lol
*lsanca snloca | [22:24] |
| mercutio | yeah i'm in new zealand which you may have been able to tell from those traces ;)
and that's from dsl why woudl it e going via dallas | [22:24] |
| acf_ | ntt.net is in tx | [22:25] |
| mercutio | oh hmm
ntt.net is japanese | [22:25] |
| acf_ | us.ntt.net goes the same place afaik | [22:25] |
| mercutio | hmm i found somewhere with nlayer to trace from
it's still jittery but not lossy it's nlayer -> alter.net -> verizon | [22:26] |
| acf_ | the arp path does that once in a while | [22:26] |
| mercutio | ahh ok
yeh it looks fine | [22:27] |
| acf_ | yesterday I think it did that and the packet loss stopped | [22:27] |
| mercutio | i don't think up_the_irons wants to get involved in screwing with routes lots | [22:27] |
| acf_ | yeah that sounds messy | [22:27] |
| mercutio | heh i did it a bit before
but i just did sweeping generalisations like "prepend anything that says cogent" so that if a non cogent route is available it tcan take that if it's not much longer and some shift for at&t traffic if it's just verizon and comcast which both have heaps of users maybe he'd make adjustments? 1% packet loss via nlayer now heh | [22:27] |
| acf_ | maybe. it seems like he has ntt prioritized heavily? | [22:29] |
| mercutio | it hink your dsl does drop packets a bit too | [22:29] |
| acf_ | likely | [22:29] |
| mercutio | it's default route
cos the old router has 100k table limit comcast has 180 routes i dunno how many verizon have | [22:29] |
| acf_ | plenty I'm sure | [22:29] |
| mercutio | but i reckon we should try and get them to be part of it :)
not necessarily bigger providers often have less prefixes as they just get huge chunks i can check yeh verizon have heaps 198.181.111.0/24, 198.181.112.0/24 etc nearly 1500 oh that can't be aggregated cos that would be 110 and 111 198.105.10.0/24 and 198.105.11.0/24 that can be aggregated though and 198.105.8.0/24 and 198.105.9.0/24 | [22:30] |
| acf_ | "AS701 announces bogons"
why would they do that? | [22:33] |
| mercutio | do they | [22:33] |
| acf_ | http://bgp.he.net/AS701#_asinfo | [22:34] |
| mercutio | 192.203.48.0/20 looks dodgy
nah it looks fine actually what bogons | [22:34] |
| acf_ | http://bgp.he.net/AS701#_bogons
oh wow 192.168.0.0/16 oh 198.168.0.0/16 | [22:35] |
| up_the_irons | wow | [22:36] |
| mercutio | 192 is mostly legacy space
up_the_irons: we talked a lot while you were away | [22:36] |
| up_the_irons | i saw the scrollback | [22:36] |
| mercutio | i dunno how bogus these ips really are
it's more just that no-one has notes on what they are | [22:37] |
| up_the_irons | traffic issues on other networks is a PITA. You fix one thing, another thing breaks. It never ends. | [22:37] |
| mercutio | up_the_irons: yes
which is why it only makes sense if it's severe | [22:38] |
| acf_ | I would think NTT and Verizon would have decent networks and be fairly responsive to issues of this severity
oh well | [22:39] |
| mercutio | well ntt have been having issues only recently right?
i reckon comcast is more worth fixing than verizon they have way less routes too ho hmm ok got a comcast dsl ip weird i'm not seeing issues, only jhitter at last hop | [22:39] |
| acf_ | things are looking better
on comcast http://kremvax.acfsys.net/smokeping.cgi?target=Remote.comcastnet | [22:43] |
| mercutio | oh
wow so on/off is comcast ip static normally? | [22:43] |
| acf_ | I don't think so | [22:44] |
| mercutio | will get him to setup smokepnig maybe :) | [22:44] |
| m0unds_ | comcast tends to assign "sticky" IPs - so long as your cpe doesnt change and isnt powered off for longer than it takes to release the dhcp lease, youll likely have the same addr for a long time. | [22:48] |
| mercutio | yeh i'll get him to curl some file randomly | [22:48] |
| m0unds_ | when i had residential svc, my dhcp addr stuck with me for over a year | [22:48] |
| mercutio | he's running into some depency issues
oh interesting. usually when people say sticky ip it's sticky until you want to access it | [22:48] |
| m0unds_ | it only changed when they brought new cmts gear up
at least in my case | [22:49] |
| mercutio | oh
maybe they'll do that to him is 4 msec jitter normal? | [22:49] |
| m0unds_ | yea | [22:50] |
| mercutio | it's 0.1 jitter two hops prior
(and worse the hop immediately before oh i thought that may mean he was legacy node | [22:50] |
| m0unds_ | i dont tend to worry til it hits +/- 15-20ms continually | [22:51] |
| mercutio | well both traces have go ne over 500 seconds / 500 pings with no loss | [22:51] |
| m0unds_ | hm | [22:51] |
| mercutio | i worry about 2 or 3 msec jitter normally
but maye i shouldn't for idle connectinos it tends to suggest there's some congestion somewehre but it depends on bandwidth etc like 2 to 3 msec jitter on gigabit means it's pretty packed | [22:51] |
| m0unds_ | also, not sure if this is still the case, but when looking at comcast rdns for intermediate gear, he = 100gbit, te = 10gbit
since they use lotsa j gear lots of fun hw to play with | [22:52] |
| mercutio | this is te | [22:55] |
| ............ (idle for 58mn) | ||
| acf_ | thinking about it more, latency between verizon and ntt in lax has always doubled from ~30 to ~60 for me
ie, at last verizon hop is 30ms and first ntt hop is 60ms | [23:53] |
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