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rgouveia has quit IRC (Read error: Operation timed out) twobithacker: Anyone tried FreeBSD 10 on ARP yet? m0unds_: yep twobithacker: any problems? m0unds: nope
10.0-RELEASE FreeBSD 10.0-RELEASE #0 r260789: Thu Jan 16 22:34:59 UTC 2014 root@snap.freebsd.org:/usr/obj/usr/src/sys/GENERIC amd64 twobithacker: ZFS or UFS? m0unds: ufs twobithacker: I was thinking of doing ZFS so I could snapshot and send/receive to backup my VPS to my home storage box m0unds: yea, that'd be nice. i was worried performance would suck, so i just continue running backup scripts ***: rgouveia has joined #arpnetworks twobithacker: yeah, I'm concerned about stability. ZFS likes RAM, and my VPS doesn't have much :) m0unds: yeah, that too
mine was also an upgrade from 9.2 --> 10.0, so i would have had to wipe
doh ***: m0unds has quit IRC (Quit: leaving) twobithacker: I'm still on 8.2
I should probably upgrade to 8.4 at least staticsafe: i tried to do ZFS inside a 1024MB vbox VM and the installer died because OOM
oops :P ***: m0unds has joined #arpnetworks m0unds_: haha ***: heavysixer has joined #arpnetworks
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easymac has joined #arpnetworks Yamazaki-kun: twobithacker: Heck, I've got ZFS on a 4GB D520 box at home and that sucks. Stick to 8+.
allegedly 1GB/TB and from what I've read about how much RAM dedup wants, get yourself a Data Domain box if dedup is that important.
and Georgia has been cancelled due to snow. Yay. ant: snow? what's that? (this has been a really warm winter here) m0unds: haha, louisiana too
friends in LA both have their workplaces closed due to "ice" Yamazaki-kun: time for daiquiris.
40 wrecks an hour in Austin according to Jalopnik.
also http://jalopnik.com/atlantas-roads-are-a-frozen-hellscape-of-abandoned-car-1511436009 m0unds: how embarrassing
haha Yamazaki-kun: I've got good tread, 4WD, and actual knowledge of how to drive, but I'm staying at home because I'm sure some ass will be freestyling and T-bone me. m0unds: yeah Yamazaki-kun: s/4/A/ but whatever, doesn't really matter
pity I didn't borrow an M35 from the motor pool. m0unds: i just toss 250lbs of playground sand bags in the bed of my truck Yamazaki-kun: Not that they'd let me.
(the truck, not the Nissan)
anyone else just get an email from Apress?
vbvhgvhg
BUY OUR BOOKS
Use promo code MKJKJH by MM/DD/YY. ***: heavysixer has joined #arpnetworks
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heavysixer has quit IRC (Quit: heavysixer) brycec: I'm happy to say that I live in the Pacific Northwest, where people expect snow (and have been deprived of it this winter). 3" fell overnight, yay! :D (only took 30 minutes to clear the snow off my car, and 25 minutes for the 7 mile commute)
(well closer to 20 minutes to drive I guess) phlux: I'm installing Arch in a VBox (Gentoo host) just to see what the new installation is like, and I'm going to admit to you all: I'm pissed off, but not for the reasons you might think.
I'm just sitting here watching pacstrap do its thing
and I think to myself: "How much time have I wasted compiling?"
So
Now I'm sad. m0unds: hahaha phlux: thanks m0unds: enjoy brycec: lol m0unds: just be sure you're dilligent w/reading docs before updates phlux: I'll probably end up moving over to Arch today/tomorrow m0unds: or you'll be sad brycec: I thought I remembered that Gentoo switched to stage3 and mostly binary stuffs? phlux: m0unds: That's the one thing I REALLY like about Gentoo.. I'll get news updates in the terminal before I update to let me know about updating certain packages. m0unds: they're generally good about announcing potentially painful changes to stuff on their boards brycec: Yep, always read the notices. They aren't frequent, but important stuff like "migrating to systemd, all others are doomed" or whatnot m0unds: yeah, arch will do that too depending on the gravity of the change brycec: And website. At least, that's my source (RSS) phlux: aye brycec: (or maybe it's just email)[09:20] <m0unds> people just tend to ignore the warning and then cry when their system breaks (not saying you'd do that, but there are people out there who do) phlux: yeah I can imagine brycec: tl;dr people are stupid.
<.<
>.> m0unds: yep
i ran arch on a personal project server for a year and didn't have any issues with it phlux: Im honestly just doing the VBox thing to make sure I can use Arch's installer without killing my /home partition. m0unds: hacked gitlab to run on it, did some other stuff, decided i just don't really care too much for linux so i'm back on bsd brycec: heh phlux: man brycec: cat phlux: I'm seriously upset at how quick pacman is m0unds: hahaha brycec: Really? I get perturbed at how slow it is.
<.<
>.> phlux: :|
I honestly think pacman might be the quickest binary package manager I've ever used brycec: j/k, somewhat. Doing huge upgrades that fail because some package key isn't installed yet, so I have to --ignore the package until archlinux-keyring is updated, and rerun the whole thing 2 or 3 times... Then it gets annoying. phlux: well brycec: phlux: Seriously?? Faster than pkg_add (any variant therein) phlux: brycec: I actually haven't used pkg_add in years, so I can't speak for that one.
I haven't used pkg_add since like... FreeBSD 4.3? brycec: Well it boils down to ftp $path/tar -x
Can't get much slicker/quicker than that phlux: haha
well
that's true ***: heavysixer has joined #arpnetworks
ChanServ sets mode: +o heavysixer Yamazaki-kun: brycec: I was in the PNW. If I leave my current employer I'll probably move to Seattle. brycec: Well the coast is a different kind of stupid when it comes to snow and ice :p Yamazaki-kun: better coffee than anywhere, more affordable housing than CA, absolutely zero blue laws, legal gambling
and weed but I'd probably just do it once to say I've done it brycec: But here in the Inland Empire (stupid name) people are more accustomed to snow. Yamazaki-kun: if that
when I see "Inland Empire" I think of Bakersfield.
not Bend. brycec: Bend is hardly "inland"
Inland Empire here refers to Spokane, Coeur d'Alene, Moscow, Lewiston. That sort of thing.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inland_Northwest_(United_States) Yamazaki-kun: ah, more inland BryceBot: Inland Northwest (United States) :: The Inland Northwest also known as the Inland Empire, is a region in the Pacific Northwest centered on Spokane, Washington, including the surrounding Columbia River basin and all of North Idaho. Included in the region are the counties of: Washington Adams, Asotin, Benton, Chelan, Columbia, Douglas, Ferry, Franklin, Garfield, Grant, Kittitas, Klickitat, Lincoln, Okanogan, Pend Oreille, Spokane, Stevens, Walla brycec: Apparently, Oregon isn't even a part of it. Yamazaki-kun: Behind the Iron Curtain, yay
know a bunch of people who went to UI.
So Kittitas is in but Yakima isn't?
okay, it is brycec: Yakima is... Yamazaki-kun: just cut off brycec: (IRC messages are limited to 420 characters or so... ) Yamazaki-kun: we should all upgrade to XMPP
too much inertia brycec: (Also note that "Walla Walla" was cut in half :p) Yamazaki-kun: Has anyone running FBSD10 switched to virtio disk/network controllers?
and looks like my shift tonight is cancelled due to OMG SNOW
time to figure out Clojure and play with kitty.
damn, heat pumps do not like below-freezing temperatures. ***: brycec is now known as moronick
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moronnickpun is now known as moronnickpuns RandalSchwartz: not much heat left in that ***: moronnickpuns is now known as moronnickpunsplo
moronnickpunsplo is now known as brycec Yamazaki-kun: http://www.facefault.org/heatpump.png
need thorium reactors already. ***: heavysixer has quit IRC (Quit: heavysixer) RandalSchwartz: You cannot change the laws of physics! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carnot_cycle BryceBot: Carnot cycle :: The Carnot cycle is a theoretical thermodynamic cycle proposed by Nicolas Léonard Sadi Carnot in 1823 and expanded by in the 1830s and 1840s. It can be shown that it is the most efficient cycle for converting a given amount of thermal energy into work, or conversely, creating a temperature difference (e.g. refrigeration) by doing a given amount of work. Every single thermodynamic system exists in a particular state. When... ***: heavysixer has joined #arpnetworks
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ChanServ sets mode: +o heavysixer up_the_irons: warned a customer of /48 link-local "difficulty" and the response was, "Red pill prepared. Please continue."
_AWESOME
best response yet to that... m0unds: hahaha brycec: lol
Now I feel bad for not having a snappy line m0unds: yeah, me too brycec: I didn't know I should have a snappy something
*sigh* BryceBot: *sigh* GluffiS: todays good deed was to replace my old++ Compaq Deskpro with a Via C7 based machine :) up_the_irons: haha
snappy lines not required GluffiS: :)
it only routes packet to my garage :)
had to replace OpenBSD with linux :( brycec: :( Yamazaki-kun: w00t
and the /48 works fine GluffiS: new hardware wasn't openbsd friendly :( but, i get to play with nftables up_the_irons: nftables the new sauce? Yamazaki-kun: does nftables's configration interface suck less than iptables?
wouldn't be hard. GluffiS: up_the_irons: yes
iptables is horrible up_the_irons: yeah that's why I use ferm -: brycec uses ufw on his l00nix boxes GluffiS: iptables-save > file && vi file && iptables-restore <file ***: heavysixer has quit IRC (Quit: heavysixer) brycec: but tools like ufw keeps me out of iptables syntax entirely m0unds: yeah, ufw is alright
luckily, i just replaced all my stuff with bsd so i never see iptables, evar RandalSchwartz: pf rocks
which bsd brycec: <3 pf ***: heavysixer has joined #arpnetworks
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heavysixer has quit IRC (Quit: heavysixer) Yamazaki-kun: Is anyone here using vimage jails other than to run Linux?
Does it get me anything for a routing jail? ***: heavysixer has joined #arpnetworks
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ChanServ sets mode: +o heavysixer mercutio: is nftables able to be used yet?
it would be nice to have pf on linux
i use ferm on linux too
although i got lost figuring out how to disable connectino tracking again :/ m0unds: i was really used to ipfw, but i use pf now that it's the default on freebsd mercutio: apparently it's changed now
pf is the default on freebsd? m0unds: it was on 9.2 mercutio: i thought ipfw as default on freebsd 9 m0unds: dunno about before that, it'd been a while since i rolled a new box mercutio: maybe it might change for 10 i thought cos they doing the smp work -: m0unds shrugs m0unds: it was default on 9.2 mercutio: cool.
i use it on freebsd 9.2
but it needes a module loaded
which doesn't seem very default to me m0unds: Since FreeBSD 5.3, a ported version of OpenBSD's PF firewall has been included as an integrated part of the base system.
so..that long, i guess
ipfw is still there and the module's only loaded when you pass "firewall_enable="YES"" in rc.conf phlux: brycec: around? brycec: somewhat. at lunchbon my phone. Yamazaki-kun: pf isn't loaded by default
have to edit rc.conf
in 10 still m0unds: yea, i meant it was included, but forgot about how to invoke ipfw
either way, modules are there for both phlux: brycec: just hit me up when you get off work and whatnot :P brycec: sure wont be too long phlux: roger brycec: dodger Yamazaki-kun: sadly, VImage is still a kernel recompile for some reason ***: heavysixer has quit IRC (Quit: heavysixer) brycec: phlux: oy up_the_irons: mercutio: disable connection tracking: -A PREROUTING -j NOTRACK ***: heavysixer has joined #arpnetworks
ChanServ sets mode: +o heavysixer mercutio: that diodn't work i seem to remember dne: Yamazaki-kun: freebsd 10 works fine for me w/ virtio drivers mercutio: is that in filter table?
iptables: No chain/target/match by that name. Yamazaki-kun: w00t
do you actually notice a performance difference doing normal things?
and not, say, a super-heavy-use virtualized DB? dne: I'm new to ARP, and I didn't run it very long before I asked to switch to virtio brycec: Generally speaking, and this isn't on ARP, but virtio does make a huuuge improvement for disk performance. Simply installing went from 30 minutes to ~2. up_the_irons: mercutio: oh sorry, table RAW mercutio: yeh found that Yamazaki-kun: oh goody mercutio: # iptables -t raw -A PREROUTING -s 172.16.0.0/16 -d 172.16.0.0/16 -j NOTRACK
iptables: No chain/target/match by that name. dne: yeah there didn't seem to be much point not using it mercutio: brycec: maybe it not syncing
but yeh virtio can make a diff
when i did the beta test with openbsd thing, it was faster as soon as up_the_irons fixed the write cache issue
when the write cache was broken it was slower than the old host up_the_irons: write cache makes a HUGE difference Yamazaki-kun: submiting ticket, then. mercutio: yeah Yamazaki-kun: may as well get that out of the way before I start crazy virtual network config
and apparently vimage isn't quite good enough for the release engineering team yet. "WARNING: VIMAGE (virtualized network stack) is a highly experimental feature."
Hopefully by 11. mercutio: eveything in linux is beta
i think redhat started it with shipping beta compilers Yamazaki-kun: "fast track" if you're on EL
or "preview" mercutio: i was thinking normal redhat Yamazaki-kun: Fedora? mercutio: before fedora/rhel Yamazaki-kun: oh up_the_irons: mercutio: weird man
$ sudo iptables -nvL -t raw
Chain PREROUTING (policy ACCEPT 754M packets, 490G bytes)
pkts bytes target prot opt in out source destination
754M 490G NOTRACK all -- * * 0.0.0.0/0 0.0.0.0/0
... m0unds: Yamazaki-kun: virtio makes a big difference w/disk latency and network perf up_the_irons: $ mercutio: # iptables -nvL -t raw
Chain PREROUTING (policy ACCEPT 201K packets, 311M bytes)
pkts bytes target prot opt in out source destination
Chain OUTPUT (policy ACCEPT 292K packets, 317M bytes)
pkts bytes target prot opt in out source destination
the table is def there
yeah it doesn't make any sense
i bene trying to google
there's a iptrack_raw module that needs to be loaded, but that is loaded Yamazaki-kun: almost got virtio done - bleepin' serial console cutting me off mnathani: @tld ae BryceBot: The top-level domain 'ae' is used for: United Arab Emirates. mnathani: @cld tv
@tld tv BryceBot: The top-level domain 'tv' is used for: Tuvalu. Yamazaki-kun: should have the bot say "nominally used" brycec: lol m0unds: i really wish i had a cable labeller at work Yamazaki-kun: I like the Rhino labelers.
The Brady one seems to be more fragile than it looks
Specifically, the cartridges are a royal pain.
I love the self-lamininating labels when the damn thing works, though.
But without a labeler, how do you deal with five hundred pairs of orange-jacketed single-mode, all alike?
other than that some will MELT YOUR EYEBALLS OFF, of course. m0unds: hahaha
i'm doing contact alarm termination for an alarm interface ***: heavysixer has quit IRC (Quit: heavysixer) dne: Yamazaki-kun: saw some serial console weirdness too during my initial setup. it just went dead a few times, and didn't start working until I rebooted the vps.
happened 9.2, before upgrading and then on 10 too I believe
happened on* Yamazaki-kun: nice to know it's not just me
now: all the lines run together
need to reboot with a new terminal window and see if it's something weird on my end
the dmesg came out like ^M was being sent instead of ^J.
shit, my 80's knowledge is finally useful.
okay, not quite true, I've seen far too much Solaris 6 well after 10 came out. mercutio: apparently 1.2.3.0/24 is going to be opened up as a local dns resolver anycast, that anyone can use
so that everyone can have 1.2.3.4 working as a dns resolver :) ***: heavysixer has joined #arpnetworks
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mjp has joined #arpnetworks up_the_irons: m0unds: Yamazaki-kun : i have a Rhino one at the data center. love it.
being able to do increments / sequences and v / h wrap (with presets for CAT-X, Fiber, COAX, etc...) just can't be beat
and that's the difference between a $400 labeler and a $30 piece of crap from Staples phlux: I need someone to talk me in to using Arch instead of Gentoo
cause right now
I can't decide wtf I want to do Yamazaki-kun: I think the Rhino I've got is $200 though
doesn't do self-laminating but does everything else
great for load panels, too
but won't do anything about 208V taking two circuit breakers
$150, even.
in the kit with hard case and charger
oh, my. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16828111111&ignorebbr=1 down to $170 for the self-laminating and USB model. BryceBot: Dymo Rhino 6000 Industrial Label Printer (1734519) -- $169.99 Yamazaki-kun: F, should have butterflied the chicken breasts. up_the_irons: that's the one i got
got mine on sale for $270
but damn it is even cheaper there
mine has the hard shell case though
the case is WELL worth it
you can store a lot of stuff, like extra cartridges m0unds: i used a rhino one on loan from our integrator to label all the stuff they missed
we need to just order one - right now, i'm just using a tape laminate one (brother p-touch)
i hate doing this stuff. fire an alarm pulse, try to find the pair with a multimeter, fire another alarm, repeat Yamazaki-kun: 2h22m to build world. Wow mercutio: phlux: i don't understand why you need to use source packages so much
i think if you really do want to use source packages a lot gentoo is kind of desgined for that
i think the real benefit with gentoo was overlays though m0unds: funroll-loops
the real benefit w/gentoo is that the time you'd spend doing anything else will be spent building packages instead of using them phlux: eh
it really doesn't take that long to compile the programs that I use
AUR > overlays imo m0unds: well, if i was forced to use linux on a desktop, i'd rather use binaries phlux: I think eselect is something I'll miss
Being able to swap from python2 to 3 on the fly via eselect is pretty nice
and 'eselect news' is pretty great, too RandalSchwartz: I'll be doing that 10.0 dance in a few weeks m0unds: pretty uneventful upgrade (just the way i like them) mercutio: i hate funroll-loops
it makes most code go slower
pacman is insanely fast i find
i always used to find apt-get slow
where it takes longer to install packages than to download htem brycec: phlux: do it, use Arch. Just do it. Use Arch, man. 16:43:35 < phlux> I need someone to talk me in to using Arch instead of Gentoo m0unds: i meant funroll-loops in the most ricer-like way possible brycec: lol mercutio: oh right Yamazaki-kun: just lost connectivity to VPS. Interesting.
just on IPv4 m0unds: that's weird Yamazaki-kun: oh, it rebooted
nothing in the logs
savecore: reboot after panic: page fault
only using 14M/1023M swap
I'll have to get sar started brycec: Using any swap at all? Ew :p Yamazaki-kun: could've been because I had built world tonight
the swap part, anyhow
not the panic
and this is a 1G RAM VPS, so that's really the most RAM-intensive thing it will ever do brycec: oh you're doing a ton of compiling jpalmer: Yamazaki-kun: with the advent of freebsd-update, why build world?
(I didn't scroll up, pardon me if someone else asked) Yamazaki-kun: well, the idea was to get CTF in so I could dtrace later if I wanted
kind of a PITA, really.
next time I'm setting up jails I'll grab the txzs from the install set
ah. figures. something screwy with the routing I'm trying to do. phlux: good news: the arch installer supports my wifi out of the box Yamazaki-kun: and yay, managed some sort of image corruption. Reinstall! and I'll stick to a more straightforward jail configuration. mnathani: Is this iso like a net install? FreeBSD-10.0-RELEASE-i386-bootonly.iso Yamazaki-kun: sounds like it brycec: phlux: sweet
also, congrats phlux: haha, haven't made the jump just yet :P
doing some backups first m0unds: was just gonna ask if that meant you'd decided phlux: I pretty much have
I'm going to go through with it. If worse comes to worse, I'm familiar enough with Gentoo installation to just come back. m0unds: YOU CAN DO IT jbergstroem: m0unds: imo, one attractive benefit with gentoo is when wanting to run stuff like nginx or collectd (or any other binary that has optional modules) you can actually just use what you need, not 200 extra packages phlux: well
there's that and you can mask future packages
example: someone on the Gentoo forums had an old printer that only worked with cups 1.5 and below. When 1.6 came out, he masked it, and was able to carry on with 1.5. Arch, at the time, shipped with 1.6, and he had to manually compile cups 1.5 in order to use it.
I've always wondered what Arch users do when the kernel updates via pacman and it breaks support for their wifi or something
Do you just deal with it? Manually compile the old kernel? staticsafe: keep backups of the previous kernel m0unds: jbergstroem: i can do that with bsd and never use gentoo phlux: staticsafe: Is it simple to just 'roll back' to the previous kernel with pacman? I assume the package is still sitting in a local directory somewhere jbergstroem: m0unds: but then you'd have to manage packages, dependencies (and upgrades) manually, right? m0unds: no jbergstroem: m0unds: talking about fbsd ports here? sure m0unds: yep staticsafe: portage > bsd ports
imho m0unds: HAHAHAHAHA phlux: I agree staticsafe: much better management system jbergstroem: m0unds: without sounding like a smart-ass, it is a bit more sophisticated m0unds: sure jbergstroem: anyway, not the place or time for a good ol distribution/os bikeshed disucssion -: staticsafe nods m0unds: conceptually, it's probably better because it's based on ports, but unsophisticated package management doesn't really break my heart
and it's newer* ^ + based on ports RandalSchwartz: portage? seriously? -: m0unds shrugs m0unds: i honestly wouldn't know, as the only time i've used gentoo was 12 years ago
i'll just keep ports + portmaster and not worry, haha RandalSchwartz: yeah Yamazaki-kun: oh, apparently vimage failing with pf is a known thing ***: toddf has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 251 seconds)
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any irssi users here who have run into weirdness with irssi needing a /redraw pretty regularly?
might give weechat a shot - not sure if it's irssi or my terminal screwing up, but i've sent stuff to the wrong channel like 3 different times today. ugh. brycec: pacman.conf features exclusions (masking), down to the version number 20:21:31 < phlux> I've always wondered what Arch users do when the kernel updates via pacman and it breaks support for their wifi or something
phlux: and yes, unless you've cleaned the cache, you can pacman -U /var/cache/pacman/pkg/linux...
m0unds: never needed to /redraw... Didn't even know it was a thing.
(I generally Ctrl-L for redraw) m0unds: ah, gotcha
really odd though, wonder if maybe it's my aircard connection at work (was having to work from the server room) brycec: mosh? m0unds: yeah, used mosh earlier in the day, but had issues and switched to just regular ssh
issue was happening on ssh brycec: hm, yup no idea m0unds: probably just crappy verizon gaffling packets ***: jcv has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
jcv has joined #arpnetworks Yamazaki-kun: I've never had issues with irssi. ***: jdeuce has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection) Yamazaki-kun: pretty snappy connection too given that's running off my Bitfolk VPS.
anyone know what ntp.conf parameter I use to tell it to stop trying to bind to everything and bind to only what I tell it to bind to?
found it -- for some reason FreeBSD ships with ntpd 4.2.4 and you need .6