[00:18] <CaZe> TWSS
[00:18] <BryceBot> Okay! twss! 'mnathani: Well, I had my fingerd port operational for a while...'
[00:19] <CaZe> Silly bot.
[00:40] <robonerd> up_the_irons around?
[00:40] <robonerd> i'm curious if i can run bhyve on a fbsd vps and do sub vps hosting
[00:51] <milki> robonerd: there are some people who do sub vps hosting but i dont know their stack
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[06:40] <m0unds> oof, that sounds like a recipe for hideous performance
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[11:12] <robonerd> why
[11:13] <RandalSchwartz> why what?
[11:13] <robonerd> someone said it would be bad performance to run bhyve on a arpnetworks vps and do sub vps hosting
[11:14] <RandalSchwartz> Oh.. no idea what that is
[11:14] <RandalSchwartz> ahh yeah, another hypervisor.  that *would* be bad
[11:15] <RandalSchwartz> might not even work
[11:38] <brycec> robonerd: Because you're emulating an emulator that's emulating a guest. Every layer you add carries a big chunk of overhead. Think of it this way: Your guest on ARP is 1/20th (random number) of the overall system resources, and then you run 10 guests inside your VM. Each of those guests has 1/200th of the top-most system. (Technically less, even)
[11:38] <mnathani> One might call that inception
[11:38] <robonerd> yea but if it's enough, who cares? like what if i took the 1GB ram model, and just split it into 2 sub vps?
[11:39] <brycec> I'm not saying it can't be done or won't work for some cases. I'm explaining why it's a Bad Idea(tm)
[11:39] <mnathani> robonerd: honestly, you are better off getting a dedicated and splitting that off using some virtualization technology
[11:40] <robonerd> yea
[11:40] <robonerd> does arp do  dedicated?
[11:40] <brycec> yes!
[11:40] <brycec> They're quite popular
[11:40] <robonerd> ok great
[11:40] <robonerd> still get console/kvm over ip to it?
[11:40] <brycec> http://arpnetworks.com/dedicated
[11:40] <brycec> See link, but yes
[11:40] <brycec> You get IPMI, redundant power, redundant NICs, craploads of b/w
[11:41] <robonerd> good prices
[11:41] <mnathani> http://support.arpnetworks.com/kb/dedicated-servers
[11:41] <mnathani> check that link
[11:42] <brycec> (I would assume that the gust on ARP doesn't have access to the host's CPU extensions that enable near-baremetal virtualization, so any gusts inside the guest must emulate everything from the CPU up, which is majorly CPU intensive)
[11:43] <robonerd> ok that's great
[11:43] <robonerd> well i dunno, but my stack is freebsd + bhyve
[11:44] <robonerd> so fbsd host is the first layer, then bhyve, then guest OSs in it
[11:45] <brycec> When I say "host" I'm referring to ARP, and you're the guest.
[11:46] <RandalSchwartz> I seem to recall a windows box running vmware, with linux as the guest, also running vmware, running OSX as that guest
[11:46] <RandalSchwartz> yes.  people are crazy.
[11:47] <brycec> osx as guest was bad enough, but owww
[11:47] <brycec> I've done Linux/Vbox -> Linux/Proxmox -> guests, but that was just trying out Proxmox
[11:56] <m0unds> it's one thing to run a hypervisor on hardware directly, it's another thing altogether to run a hypervisor within one
[11:57] <m0unds> totally logical to say it's a bad idea, just hope no one is paying too much (if anything) for service run within a VM env like that
[11:58] <brycec> "But it's the cloud, I can do anything and run as many as I want!"
[11:58] <m0unds> RandalSchwartz: that's insanity (vmware server, linux guest running vmware running osx)
[11:58] <m0unds> i can't even imagine how slow that'd be - vmware server under windows is such a pig
[11:59] <m0unds> brycec: in teh klaud
[12:20] <toddf> much better than bochs running bochs ..
[12:20] <toddf> robonerd: so how is bhyve coming along these days? ;-) if I could run openbsd under it I'd be really estatic *grin* .. someday
[12:20] <robonerd> going really well
[12:21] <robonerd> picking up a lot of steam
[12:21] <robonerd> #bhyve fyi
[12:22] <toddf> I idle there, should read some of the scrollback sometime I guess ;-)
[12:31] <DaCa> toddf: according to the faq, you can
[12:38] <toddf> DaCa: grmph, missed that news entirely
[12:40] <DaCa> toddf: I also only noticed it recently, will be trying out soon
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[13:04] <ben2> just get a dedicated server
[13:04] <ben2> and do virtualisation
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[13:05] <toddf> if on a budget, the modern kvr systems should support nested virtualization, but I'm sure jerry would clarify for sure
[13:05] <toddf> s/jerry/garry/
[13:05] <mercutio> yeah that may work
[13:05] <BryceBot> <toddf> if on a budget, the modern kvr systems should support nested virtualization, but I'm sure garry would clarify for sure
[13:05] <mercutio> but you only get one cpu core
[13:06] <toddf> aka up_the_irons
[13:06] <toddf> not a biggie if you have low cpu need for simple process isoluation
[13:06] <mercutio> true
[13:06] <toddf> you can always do powerups to get multiple cpus in your vps'en
[13:06] <m0unds> but aren't there better approaches to that than running VMs within a VM?
[13:07] <toddf> true power would be to get one of those 72gb mem dell c1100's on ebay and then vm it to the hilt
[13:07] <mercutio> i've used openvz inside xen before
[13:07] <mercutio> toddf: i wonder how much power those draw
[13:07] <mercutio> they did look kind of exciting
[13:07] <toddf> initially getting something done temporary -> vm in a vm, long term strategy -> raw hw -> vm
[13:07] <mercutio> until i'm like how do i get one of those to my country :)
[13:07] <mercutio> shipping internationally is expensive
[13:08] <mercutio> i think tehy also need ipmi to be confiused
[13:08] <mercutio> configured
[13:08] <mercutio> like they have no kvm
[13:08] <mercutio> so you have to use ipmitool etc
[13:08] <mercutio> which works but is annoying to cconfigure
[13:09] <toddf> they have ipmi, client of mine has two, not personally familiar with ipmi as much as I should be, just getting them loaded with a traditional console for now
[13:10] <toddf> s/two/three/ but anyway
[13:10] <mercutio> i've configured ipmi on stuff before
[13:10] <mercutio> it works
[13:10] <mercutio> but it's confusing
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[13:22] <toddf> iDRAC6 however is quite nice
[14:00] <hazardous> i gotta say
[14:00] <hazardous> one of my biggest pet peeves
[14:01] <hazardous> is having to deal with windows share bs or pxe
[14:01] <hazardous> when i wish i could just paste a iso url into some kvm page
[14:01] <hazardous> and click submit
[14:01] <mercutio> windows share isn't bad is it?
[14:01] <RandalSchwartz> It's.... windows.
[14:01] <mercutio> they should support nfs too though really :/
[14:01] <RandalSchwartz> ugh
[14:02] <mercutio> you can do it from linux too though
[14:02] <hazardous> yeah i know i can just dump on samba or something
[14:02] <hazardous> but for individual servers in many places id rather just link a iso instead of have to rehost and all that
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[14:58] <m0unds> client services for nfs
[14:59] <m0unds> fwiw
[14:59] <brycec> Not that it overcomes the rehosting bit
[14:59] <m0unds> nah
[14:59] <m0unds> but it does support nfs if you actually enable it
[15:00] <m0unds> but omgz windoze
[15:00] <brycec> I was going to mention it too, but since it's not a solution...
[15:00] <m0unds> hahaha
[15:00] <m0unds> just addressing "they should support nfs too"
[15:00] <m0unds> hahaha
[15:00] <m0unds> unless i misread the context of that
[15:00] * m0unds shrugs
[15:00] <brycec> I thought it was in reference to the iDRAC supporting it
[15:01] <m0unds> ah
[15:01] <brycec> I get the lack of http support since random-access of a remote file is slooow.
[15:01] <m0unds> yeah
[15:01] <brycec> (or you fetch it and store it in RAM and your 8GB DVD ISO has taken ALL the RAM)
[15:15] <RandalSchwartz> "NFS - 'It was better than nothing'"
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[20:24] <m0unds> http://beeradvocate.com/beer/profile/192/26541 this is awesome
[20:24] <BryceBot> Beer Advocate: "Lips Of Faith - Le Terroir - New Belgium Brewing - Fort Collins, CO" BA SCORE 96world-class-920 Ratings THE BROS N/A-send 'em beer » Ratings: 920Reviews: 348rAvg: 4.31pDev: 9.74% Ratings HelpBrewed by:New Belgium Brewing Colorado, United StatesStyle | ABVAmerican Wild Ale |  7.50% ABVAvailability: Rotating. bottle (271), on-tap (71), growler (6). Notes/Commercial Description: A sour beer barrel-aged for two years and then dr
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