#arpnetworks 2013-12-16,Mon

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WhoWhatWhen
CaZeTWSS [00:18]
BryceBotOkay! twss! 'mnathani: Well, I had my fingerd port operational for a while...' [00:18]
CaZeSilly bot. [00:19]
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robonerdup_the_irons around?
i'm curious if i can run bhyve on a fbsd vps and do sub vps hosting
[00:40]
milkirobonerd: there are some people who do sub vps hosting but i dont know their stack [00:51]
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m0undsoof, that sounds like a recipe for hideous performance [06:40]
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robonerdwhy [11:12]
RandalSchwartzwhy what? [11:13]
robonerdsomeone said it would be bad performance to run bhyve on a arpnetworks vps and do sub vps hosting [11:13]
RandalSchwartzOh.. no idea what that is
ahh yeah, another hypervisor. that *would* be bad
might not even work
[11:14]
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brycecrobonerd: Because you're emulating an emulator that's emulating a guest. Every layer you add carries a big chunk of overhead. Think of it this way: Your guest on ARP is 1/20th (random number) of the overall system resources, and then you run 10 guests inside your VM. Each of those guests has 1/200th of the top-most system. (Technically less, even) [11:38]
mnathaniOne might call that inception [11:38]
robonerdyea but if it's enough, who cares? like what if i took the 1GB ram model, and just split it into 2 sub vps? [11:38]
brycecI'm not saying it can't be done or won't work for some cases. I'm explaining why it's a Bad Idea(tm) [11:39]
mnathanirobonerd: honestly, you are better off getting a dedicated and splitting that off using some virtualization technology [11:39]
robonerdyea
does arp do dedicated?
[11:40]
brycecyes!
They're quite popular
[11:40]
robonerdok great
still get console/kvm over ip to it?
[11:40]
brycechttp://arpnetworks.com/dedicated
See link, but yes
You get IPMI, redundant power, redundant NICs, craploads of b/w
[11:40]
robonerdgood prices [11:41]
mnathanihttp://support.arpnetworks.com/kb/dedicated-servers
check that link
[11:41]
brycec(I would assume that the gust on ARP doesn't have access to the host's CPU extensions that enable near-baremetal virtualization, so any gusts inside the guest must emulate everything from the CPU up, which is majorly CPU intensive) [11:42]
robonerdok that's great
well i dunno, but my stack is freebsd + bhyve
so fbsd host is the first layer, then bhyve, then guest OSs in it
[11:43]
brycecWhen I say "host" I'm referring to ARP, and you're the guest. [11:45]
RandalSchwartzI seem to recall a windows box running vmware, with linux as the guest, also running vmware, running OSX as that guest
yes. people are crazy.
[11:46]
brycecosx as guest was bad enough, but owww
I've done Linux/Vbox -> Linux/Proxmox -> guests, but that was just trying out Proxmox
[11:47]
m0undsit's one thing to run a hypervisor on hardware directly, it's another thing altogether to run a hypervisor within one
totally logical to say it's a bad idea, just hope no one is paying too much (if anything) for service run within a VM env like that
[11:56]
brycec"But it's the cloud, I can do anything and run as many as I want!" [11:58]
m0undsRandalSchwartz: that's insanity (vmware server, linux guest running vmware running osx)
i can't even imagine how slow that'd be - vmware server under windows is such a pig
brycec: in teh klaud
[11:58]
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toddfmuch better than bochs running bochs ..
robonerd: so how is bhyve coming along these days? ;-) if I could run openbsd under it I'd be really estatic *grin* .. someday
[12:20]
robonerdgoing really well
picking up a lot of steam
#bhyve fyi
[12:20]
toddfI idle there, should read some of the scrollback sometime I guess ;-) [12:22]
DaCatoddf: according to the faq, you can [12:31]
toddfDaCa: grmph, missed that news entirely [12:38]
DaCatoddf: I also only noticed it recently, will be trying out soon [12:40]
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[13:03]
ben2just get a dedicated server
and do virtualisation
[13:04]
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toddfif on a budget, the modern kvr systems should support nested virtualization, but I'm sure jerry would clarify for sure
s/jerry/garry/
[13:05]
mercutioyeah that may work [13:05]
BryceBot<toddf> if on a budget, the modern kvr systems should support nested virtualization, but I'm sure garry would clarify for sure [13:05]
mercutiobut you only get one cpu core [13:05]
toddfaka up_the_irons
not a biggie if you have low cpu need for simple process isoluation
[13:06]
mercutiotrue [13:06]
toddfyou can always do powerups to get multiple cpus in your vps'en [13:06]
m0undsbut aren't there better approaches to that than running VMs within a VM? [13:06]
toddftrue power would be to get one of those 72gb mem dell c1100's on ebay and then vm it to the hilt [13:07]
mercutioi've used openvz inside xen before
toddf: i wonder how much power those draw
they did look kind of exciting
[13:07]
toddfinitially getting something done temporary -> vm in a vm, long term strategy -> raw hw -> vm [13:07]
mercutiountil i'm like how do i get one of those to my country :)
shipping internationally is expensive
i think tehy also need ipmi to be confiused
configured
like they have no kvm
so you have to use ipmitool etc
which works but is annoying to cconfigure
[13:07]
toddfthey have ipmi, client of mine has two, not personally familiar with ipmi as much as I should be, just getting them loaded with a traditional console for now
s/two/three/ but anyway
[13:09]
mercutioi've configured ipmi on stuff before
it works
but it's confusing
[13:10]
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toddfiDRAC6 however is quite nice [13:22]
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hazardousi gotta say
one of my biggest pet peeves
is having to deal with windows share bs or pxe
when i wish i could just paste a iso url into some kvm page
and click submit
[14:00]
mercutiowindows share isn't bad is it? [14:01]
RandalSchwartzIt's.... windows. [14:01]
mercutiothey should support nfs too though really :/ [14:01]
RandalSchwartzugh [14:01]
mercutioyou can do it from linux too though [14:02]
hazardousyeah i know i can just dump on samba or something
but for individual servers in many places id rather just link a iso instead of have to rehost and all that
[14:02]
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[14:54]
m0undsclient services for nfs
fwiw
[14:58]
brycecNot that it overcomes the rehosting bit [14:59]
m0undsnah
but it does support nfs if you actually enable it
but omgz windoze
[14:59]
brycecI was going to mention it too, but since it's not a solution... [15:00]
m0undshahaha
just addressing "they should support nfs too"
hahaha
unless i misread the context of that
m0unds shrugs
[15:00]
brycecI thought it was in reference to the iDRAC supporting it [15:00]
m0undsah [15:01]
brycecI get the lack of http support since random-access of a remote file is slooow. [15:01]
m0undsyeah [15:01]
brycec(or you fetch it and store it in RAM and your 8GB DVD ISO has taken ALL the RAM) [15:01]
RandalSchwartz"NFS - 'It was better than nothing'" [15:15]
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m0undshttp://beeradvocate.com/beer/profile/192/26541 this is awesome [20:24]
BryceBotBeer Advocate: "Lips Of Faith - Le Terroir - New Belgium Brewing - Fort Collins, CO" BA SCORE 96world-class-920 Ratings THE BROS N/A-send 'em beer » Ratings: 920Reviews: 348rAvg: 4.31pDev: 9.74% Ratings HelpBrewed by:New Belgium Brewing Colorado, United StatesStyle | ABVAmerican Wild Ale |  7.50% ABVAvailability: Rotating. bottle (271), on-tap (71), growler (6). Notes/Commercial Description: A sour beer barrel-aged for two years and then dr [20:24]
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