<!-- Some styling for better description lists --><style type='text/css'>dt { font-weight: bold;float: left;display:inline;margin-right: 1em} dd { display:block; margin-left: 2em}</style>
***: laotzu has quit IRC (Client Quit)
<br> laotzu has joined #arpnetworks
<br> laotzu has quit IRC (Quit: leaving)
<br> laotzu has joined #arpnetworks
<br> laotzu has quit IRC (Client Quit)
<br> brycec has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
<br> toddf has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
<br> toddf has joined #arpnetworks
<br> ChanServ sets mode: +o toddf
<br> brycec has joined #arpnetworks
<br> koan_ is now known as koan
<br> laotzi has joined #arpnetworks
<br> joepie91_ has joined #arpnetworks
<br> joepie91 has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
<br> laotzi has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
<br> laotzi has joined #arpnetworks
<br> ThalinVien has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
<br> ThalinVien has joined #arpnetworks
<br> ThalinVien is now known as Guest68429
<br> hive-mind has joined #arpnetworks
<br> Alistair_ has joined #arpnetworks
Alistair_: Hello!
meingtsla: hi.
Alistair_: How long is the setup normally?
meingtsla: it may take up to 24 hours i think
Alistair_: Would BGP take longer on top of that?
meingtsla: ah, i was assuming you were talking about vpses and dedicated servers, my bad. not sure about that to be honest
Alistair_: Yeah, I just ordered a VPS and will be looking for a BGP session on top of it
<br> Sorry, I should have said
<br> <u>up_the_irons</u>: Are you here at the moment?
staticsafe: <u>Alistair_</u>: best to e-mail support@
mercutio: it's most evenings US time
<br> <u>alistair</u>: bgp is less than a week normally i think
<br> but more than a day
<br> i have bgp btw
Alistair_: Sweet, I'm only just getting to grips with BGP :)
staticsafe: BGP is so much fun
mercutio: what OS?
Alistair_: I ordered debian 6 to run with quagga
<br> I have a raspberry pi running at home with quagga too and it's alright but there is no peers for me at home
mercutio: ok
<br> i hate quagga, but it works
Alistair_: What do you use?
mercutio: i use openbgpd, bird, and quagga
Alistair_: Ah
mercutio: i like openbgpd the best
<br> i wish there was a version on linux
Alistair_: quagga was just the easiest for me to setup as a first time BGP user
staticsafe: openbgpd was great
<br> was playing it with it at home
mercutio: well the main annoyance with quagga is the route maps
<br> for filtering prefixes
<br> <u>static</u>: i had huge issues with zebra
<br> so i changed to quagga
<br> and i stilli had issues
<br> one day i decided to try openbgpd
Alistair_: I managed to peer 2 machines but neither of which had the routing tables
mercutio: and i'm like paranoid
<br> cos quagga was a pita
<br> :/
Alistair_: and that's the bit that I want to see and have a bit of fun with
mercutio: then it's like uhh
<br> that was "too easy"
staticsafe: <u>mercutio</u>: I did RouterOS <-> openbgpd
mercutio: <u>static</u>: oh god, i've tried using routeros
<br> i still get confused
staticsafe: its not that hard
mercutio: is there some clean way on routeros to find out what routes you're advertising?
staticsafe: i agree its not intuitive
<br> sec
mercutio: i haven't touched routeros too much
<br> but whenever i do i'm like erk
Alistair_: Can you BGP over WAN? So say I peer with someone that has the global routing table and announce the block, would this work or do I need to peer with my band width provider too?
mercutio: <u>static</u>: arp only has partial bgp tables btw
<br> oops
<br> alistair even
<br> what do you want route tables for?
<br> you can bgp over anything
<br> you can use bgp multihop if you're not adjacent
Alistair_: One of my partners has allowed me to use his spare /24
mercutio: or you can use a tunnel to be adjacent
staticsafe: <u>mercutio</u>: /routing bgp network print
mercutio: <u>alistair</u>: cool.
Alistair_: but im sure without the routing table peers I cant use the ips
mercutio: that doesn't show detail
<br> i want to see what routes with what prepends are being advertised to what peers
<br> <u>alistair</u>: you don't need to see other routes to advertise a /24
Alistair_: Oh?
staticsafe: <u>mercutio</u>: yea i don't think the functionality is that great
<br> but i haven't played with it in depth
Alistair_: Mind giving me a few pointers as to how I go about this then?
mercutio: when you advertise a subnet, you just asking other poeple to send traffic for that subnet to you
<br> when you see routes, from one or more hosts, it means you can see what path it takes
<br> and if more than one peer choose the best path
Alistair_: I see
mercutio: <u>alistair</u>: well, i'm pretty sure arp use prefix lists themselves
<br> so you can't really do anything wrong
<br> and you don't even have another route table to inject
<br> are you going to advertise the /24 just on arp?
Alistair_: BGP has got to be the most confusing thing i've ever used
mercutio: or are you looking to do something omre complex like anycast
<br> <u>alistair</u>: that's what i heard in 2000
<br> then i started to learn more about it
<br> and i'm like why did i think it was complicated? :)
Alistair_: Just looking to use it on ARP
mercutio: mm..
<br> yeh that setup is pretty simple
Alistair_: Uni/multicast i think is what im after
mercutio: i can help you if you get stuck
<br> do you have an ASN?
Alistair_: Yeah
mercutio: or can you use ASN of whoever owns the subnet
Alistair_: The owner of the subnet ASN
plett: As an edge network on the internet who just announces a single prefix to one or two upstreams, BGP is quite straightforward
mercutio: <u>plett</u>: yeh
<br> basically you just do:
<br> router bgp <asn>
<br> network <subnet>
<br> neighber 174.136...(ip address of gateway) remote-as 25795
<br> neighbor
staticsafe: yea
plett: It's when you want to provide BGP to other people, or have multiple locations to announce from, that it gets complicated
mercutio: you're from the uk?
Alistair_: I am yes
mercutio: so you prob are like thinking neighbour should work :/
<br> but it doesn't :/
staticsafe: heh
Alistair_: I'll PM you the subnet and ASN
-: plett is also from the UK :)
mercutio: you probably also want a route map :/
<br> for good measure
<br> access-list local_nets permit Wsubnet>
-: Alistair_ is in the north of the UK
mercutio: access-list local_nets deny any
-: plett is in the much better south
mercutio: yeh that subnet isn't already advertised to the internet
Alistair_: Yup
mercutio: not even as part of a larger subnet
Alistair_: There is a another subnet I can use if i need to use one under a larger subnet
mercutio: should be fine
<br> some people strip /24s
<br> like arp :/
<br> but there's usually default routes
Alistair_: I think that is what my partner has done
mercutio: that'll get through anyway
Alistair_: How possible is it to use said subnet on a home router?
<br> With quagga on said router of course
mercutio: well your isp prob won't let you do bgp to them
<br> unless you're using a geek isp :/
plett: <u>mercutio</u>: ARP don't filter all /24s, my home address space is reachable
Alistair_: No they don't
mercutio: <u>plett</u>: reachable by default route?
<br> i think they allow /24s on any2ix
Alistair_: Could I say perhaps BGP over WAN to a peer and announce it?
mercutio: you can tunnel the /24
plett: <u>mercutio</u>: Looks like it's going over NTT from ARP
mercutio: but if you're in the UK the path will be much worse
<br> your isp might advertise the /24 on your behalf
<br> if you ask them nicely
<br> and route it to your home
<br> depending on how geeky they are agin :/
<br> i have a /29 for home
Alistair_: I tried that, they're answer was "What is BGP?" >.>
mercutio: <u>plett</u>: i think ntt is default route, tell me the subnet and i can ccheck if it's in arp's bgp table :/
plett: <u>Alistair_</u>: If you happen to need a better ISP, I work for aa.net.uk
mercutio: <u>alistair</u>: heh
plett: <u>mercutio</u>: 91.241.56.0/24
mercutio: <u>plett</u>: do you do bgp to customers?
<br> err home users
<br> yeah it's not
Alistair_: Virgin media is just so bad but its the only service that can get me more than 2mbps
plett: <u>mercutio</u>: We prefer not to do it over residential grade DSL connections, but if that's the only way then yes
mercutio: <u>plett</u>: heh
<br> <u>alistair</u>: you could tunnel all of your traffic
plett: <u>mercutio</u>: That prefix is being announced over my FTTC VDSL from home
mercutio: maybe plett's isp can sell you a l2tp/ipsec tunnel or soemthing :/
<br> you';re 3.2557?
Alistair_: So that'd be BGP over GRE?
mercutio: l2tp isn't gre
<br> virgin media is cable right
Alistair_: Well same idea as it
<br> Yeah they are FTTC
plett: <u>mercutio</u>: We are more than happy to announce other people's IP space on their behalf and route it to their DSL line(s). We've got a handful of particularly geeky customers who do that
mercutio: the main issue is you need to do mss clamping
plett: Virgin is DOCSIS cable, yes
mercutio: if you can't do a bigger l2 mtu
<br> <u>plett</u>: but you can't resell virgin cable can you? :)
<br> <u>plett</u>: that, to me, sounds like asking for problems :)
plett: <u>mercutio</u>: No, we can't. They don't offer wholesale connections to anyone
mercutio: but i'm fine doing it for myself.
<br> :/
<br> <u>plett</u>: yeah i thought that was the case
<br> and BT suck
<br> i have a friend who used to live in cambridge
<br> and bitched about how bad internet in the UK was
plett: BT Retail suck. The wholesale service can be made to work well
mercutio: apparently cambridge is especially bad
Alistair_: So if I did BGP over l2tp/ipsec where would the traffic go? Over the tunnel or over my virgin line?
mercutio: like 1 megabit dsl or something
<br> or virgin who he refused to deal with
<br> <u>alistair</u>: to the tunnel endpoint
Alistair_: Thought so
mercutio: you can do it on a vps in the UK
<br> or someone who'll terminate l2tp
<br> ti's basifcally a vpn
Alistair_: BGP sounds like so much fun haha
mercutio: but afaik BT ppp termiantes in something akin to l2tp anyway
<br> so infrastructure support in the UK shoudl be good anyway :/
<br> <u>plett</u>: does BT wholesale support 1500 mtu yet?
plett: <u>mercutio</u>: Yes. That's what we buy from BT. There are other options where they terminate it and route IP to the ISP, but that sucks
<br> Yes. 1500 mtu is no problem, even over PPPoE
Alistair_: BT says that my postcode gets "Up to 5.5Mbps", didn't even get 3Mbps so hence why went with virgin
plett: BT does RFC4638
<br> (and yes, I do know that RFC number from memory)
m0unds: haha
<br> pppoe ftl
mercutio: <u>plett</u>: so would you sell l2tp tunnel ? :)"
<br> pppoe is fine
plett: <u>mercutio</u>: We do, yes :)
m0unds: nah
mercutio: <u>plett</u>: do you do ipsec on it?
plett: No, just plain L2TP at the moment
mercutio: oh yip
<br> probably fine :/
<br> so alistair confused yet?
Alistair_: Very
plett: BGP over an L2TP to a residential grade connection elsewhere on the internet wouldn't be something I'd prefer to do, but it would work
mercutio: if you wanted to get creative
<br> you could do l2tp to arp, and l2tp to plett's isp
<br> and advertise the subnet on both
<br> but prepend the routes to arp :/
plett: <u>Alistair_</u>: What is the problem you're actually trying to solve?
mercutio: he just wants a /24 at home i think
<br> and to play with bgp
Alistair_: Yeah, more to play with BGP than anything
-: mercutio lets alistair answer
Alistair_: I have the ASN and IP space already from elsewhere but I don't want to pay too much just to play
mercutio: <u>alistair</u>: it's an uncommon request tbh
Alistair_: Yeah, hence why im after advice
mercutio: arp is kind of cool in that they do it easily
plett: <u>Alistair_</u>: Out of interest, how did you get address space and an ASN without also already knowing how to do this sort of thing?
Alistair_: <u>plett</u>: Partner I work with let me borrow his
plett: RIPE PI space?
Alistair_: AH now there is a problem
<br> ARIN PI
plett: Not a technical problem, possibly a logistical one
<br> I don't know what ARIN's policies are about using their address space outside of the ARIN region
Alistair_: It's a no-no
plett: I thought that might be the case. That is also RIPE's policy
Alistair_: it's written but its not enforced very often
mercutio: i'm advertising APNIC IP space to arp
Alistair_: Can you open a BGP session with a second router with the same ASN?
mercutio: yes
plett: <u>mercutio</u>: Do APNIC have a similar policy?
mercutio: <u>plett</u>: huh?
<br> i've never heard of such a policy
-: staticsafe wonders how much IP space + ASN costs in ARIN region
mercutio: it works
plett: Okay
mercutio: but i have a backup tunnel
<br> i'm advertising /24 that's inside a bigger /21
<br> and there's a backup route to get back
Alistair_: So I could in theory have my partner setup l2tp on his router and peer with me at home and both use the same ASN?
mercutio: but it seems to just work
plett: <u>mercutio</u>: I only ask because I had an email from an Australian who is moving to the UK and wants to bring his APNIC /24 space and use it on his UK broadband
mercutio: <u>alistair</u>: you can use the same ASN in multiple unconnected locations
<br> <u>plett</u>: well tehre may be non ideal routing
<br> but i think that's mostly a think of the 90s
<br> it used to be routers that could only take 100k or less routes were common
<br> etc
Alistair_: <u>mercutio</u>: I would only be peered with the one router though
mercutio: and having non PI space was a problem
<br> nad lots of peopld idn't have proper PI space
<br> but instead an allocation from a larger subnet
plett: Yeah. De-aggregation sucks a bit
mercutio: <u>Alistair_</u>: if at all possible i'd try and get "close" distance for the tunnel
plett: Long live IPv6 :)
mercutio: you don't want to go to UK sites via the US
m0unds: that'd be a long half a second or more
mercutio: which is why i was suggesting that plett's isp may be able to do something
Alistair_: Yeah of course without doubt
plett: About 150ms round trip time between ARP and London
m0unds: that little?
Alistair_: There is a public exchange in scotland (IXScotland) so ideally something that is in the same datacentre
mercutio: that's high
<br> the ideal path is more like 130
m0unds: considering the distance, not really
mercutio: but often things aren't ideal :/
plett: <u>mercutio</u>: That's from ARP to here via NTT
mercutio: <u>plett</u>: ntt both directions?
plett: From ARP to www.bbc.co.uk , it's about 136ms
Alistair_: I have 7ms to IXScotland
plett: <u>mercutio</u>: Yep. NTT both ways
mercutio: hah it's 156 via atrato
<br> to maidstone
plett: <u>Alistair_</u>: IXScotland is still very very new and small
Alistair_: Yeah but it's there so its a step in the right direction
mercutio: 146 to bbc.co.uk
<br> via ntt/telia
plett: <u>Alistair_</u>: Absolutely
Alistair_: The datacenter that it's in has 16 carriers so it should grow soon
mercutio: <u>alistair</u>: well if you can terminate there that's good
<br> can you get a vps there?
plett: We are LINX members, and peer on the London LAN. If we had any existing infrastructure in Manchester or Edinburgh, we'd be peering there too
Alistair_: <u>mercutio</u>: It wouldn't make a difference really because virgin media is not peered there yet
<br> unless I got a dedi and got my transit from VM
mercutio: i thought you had 7 msec to there
<br> virgin aren't pro peering i think
Alistair_: Virgin is on site but the 7msec is not leaving their network
<br> thats to their routers onsite
mercutio: how much is it to a host on that network?
Alistair_: Not too sure, the host is carrier neutral so it would most likely be transit from VM
<br> They don't seem to list prices on their website
<br> I've been in their newbridge facility but never in their south gyle one which is where IXScotland is
mercutio: well good luck :)
Alistair_: I am considering touring their south gyle one for nothing more than a look and ball parks
plett: <u>Alistair_</u>: Is that Pulsant (ex Scolocate/Lumison) ?
Alistair_: It is indeed
plett: We are Pulsant (ex BlueSquare) customers in Maidenhead
Alistair_: What is your experience like with them?
<br> The idea of not paying remote hands on colo is really appealing to me seeing we pay up to £70 per hour
mercutio: remote hands usually suck
<br> i'd recommend doing it yourself :/
plett: We're fairly happy with them
Alistair_: At least in Pulsant at Edinburgh its only a 15 minute drive away
plett: Yeah. We're about 15 mins drive from them in Maidenhead
mercutio: hmm alistair: does your partner have ip address space at that dc?
plett: But we only ever have to visit in the event of a hardware failure. IPMI and out-of-band access takes care of everything else
Alistair_: He doesn't sadly
mercutio: oh
Alistair_: I think he is looking into it with the exchange being on site though
mercutio: i wouldn't woorry about excahnges being on site too much
<br> i'd consider a good dc a higher priority
Alistair_: Yeah
mercutio: i used to think differently
<br> but now days lots of people run ring networks to various locations
<br> and there's lots of shared networks you can get on
Alistair_: Well if their Newbridge facility was anything to go by when I took a tour of it then their South gyle one is supposed to be even better
mercutio: sounds expensive :)
plett: I've got to run. Bedtime for me :)
Alistair_: They wanted £50 + network and power for a 1U box
mercutio: is it 1 am for you plett?
plett: <u>mercutio</u>: 23:50 at the moment
mercutio: 50 pounds?
<br> sounds reasonable
Alistair_: Yeah
mercutio: not great though
<br> <u>plett</u>: bertter run before you turn into a pumpkin then
plett: Indeed. I need to get up for work in the morning :)
Alistair_: I've been doing freelance for someone over in the states lately so nighshift for me tonight
mercutio: heh
Alistair_: I actually can't wait to get my hands on some real BGP stuff xD
mercutio: heh
<br> you never know up_the_irons might poke his head in and decide to do it quickly :)
<br> actually
<br> it takes ages
<br> because upstreams have to be sent the ip's too
<br> and can take a few hours or something to unfilter them
<br> i forgot about thjat :/
Alistair_: Ah
mercutio: i want to do more anycast heh
<br> anycast is cool
<br> it means you can have dns server on one ip adress in mltuple locations
<br> and the closest dns server responds
Alistair_: Yeah
<br> My partner has a range on anycast with host virtual
mercutio: ahh ok
Alistair_: HTTP nodes for DDoS protection proxies
mercutio: i just contacted host virtual about setting up bgp :/
<br> it looks ilke it's free on hostvirtual
<br> fwiw i reckon arp is better than hostvirtual
Alistair_: We actually got some pretty neat ip's in our /22
mercutio: but i have lower ping to host virtual
Alistair_: Setup rsync for all the servers, trust me
mercutio: well hostvirtual in san jose
Alistair_: partner never did it and now its 9 manual changes >.>
mercutio: what
<br> there's a $200 setup fee
Alistair_: Netrouting is pretty good too
mercutio: ok they only do it on 1gb of ram or more hosts
<br> $200 setup fee
<br> $300/month for anycast ip's
<br> blah blah
<br> there's $0 monthly fee
<br> but $200 setup fee is heaps
<br> when i want to just play with it
staticsafe: heh
mercutio: do doo doo
Alistair_: Yup
mercutio: maybe i shoudl cancel my vm with them
<br> i'm going to complain that it says free on their web site :/
staticsafe: free*
Alistair_: I found arp networks looking for cheap servers with BGP to play with
mercutio: yeh so did i i think
<br> no actually i found it cos i wanted openbsd
<br> and ipv6 was nice
<br> i think bgp came later
<br> actually i might have asked about bgp before it was offered
<br> i've asked other providers about bgp :/
Alistair_: Most of them won't do it
mercutio: steadfast will
Alistair_: it's so annoying because I already have servers that I could use without paying extra but they won't do bgp
<br> I'm mainly with OVH at the minute
mercutio: i think ovh will do bgp
Alistair_: I've asked over the phone and they said nope
<br> maybe I should try emailing them
mercutio: http://forum.ovh.co.uk/showthread.php?2589-AS-BGP-peering-and-transit
Alistair_: That's from 2009, they said it's changed now
mercutio: i think they used to do bgp?
<br> i dunno
<br> heh
<br> damn
<br> some poeople don't want to deal with the complications on lower paying customers :/
<br> haha
<br> i swearched for bgp and vps
<br> and found arp first
Alistair_: It's taken me days to find arp
mercutio: and gridlane that i've never heard of in sweden
Alistair_: arp is still cheaper
mercutio: yeh
<br> i'm just looking for more locaitons :/
Alistair_: What is it that you need the locations for?
mercutio: anycast
<br> dns :/
Alistair_: Ah
mercutio: i don't need ;/
Alistair_: I would recommend host virtual then
mercutio: screw $200 setup fee
<br> host virtual had some network issues before
Alistair_: Ahh, one of them "I want this but I don't need it" things?
mercutio: more than ocne
<br> they're not wonderful
<br> and i wouldnt' want to feel ilke i have to stick with them
<br> yeh
<br> it's kind of like overclocking
<br> you might gain 5% improvement
Alistair_: yup
mercutio: at the risk of instability
<br> but once you know you can do it
<br> it tempts at you
Alistair_: I got more than 5% out of mine though :3
mercutio: well los angeles is 130 to 160 msec from london
<br> so it could make that much difference in ping having a EU location
<br> so that's more than 5% :/
Alistair_: Wait, really? o.o
<br> I'd expect more than that
mercutio: i'm in new zealand
<br> los angeles is 140 msec from here
<br> give or take 10 msec
Alistair_: That's not too bad
<br> What IP are you trying that with?
<br> I'll try it from here
mercutio: 202.49.65.254 is an example anycasted
<br> heh i should fix up the reverse dns
<br> it's liekly to hit arop
<br> arp
Alistair_: Goes to LA from here too
<br> and yeah arp
mercutio: via arp? :)
<br> yeh
<br> compare that to say 202.49.71.24
Alistair_: ~165ms to the .254
<br> .24 went over my second connection oh dear
mercutio: second connection?
Alistair_: 3g modem
mercutio: oh
<br> why's that?
Alistair_: round robin with dual wan
mercutio: eww :)
<br> try again then :)
Alistair_: Once you demand the data it speeds up and goes down to about 61ms to london so the 3g aint bad
<br> Runs at about 18mbit where I am atm
mercutio: ahh ok
<br> i imagine it's about 300 msec to 202.49.71.24
<br> via non 3g
***: Alistair__ has joined #arpnetworks
Alistair__: Woops, IRC was running on the 3g when I dissconnected it
<br> around 330ms to the .24 ip
***: Alistair_ has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
<br> Alistair__ is now known as Alistair_
mercutio: 330 wow that's high
Alistair_: http://i.imgur.com/2exH9ay.png
mercutio: fucking cogent
<br> it'd be lower if it tunneled via arp :)
<br> is 202.36.174.250 better?
<br> i dunno how cogent manage to have 187 msec to california
Alistair_: windows is so slow at traceroutes
mercutio: yeh it is
Alistair_: but mtr seems to preak when cogent is in the loop
<br> break*
<br> http://i.imgur.com/9rDEB61.png
mercutio: oh not much better
<br> and still cogent
<br> i dunno why it's cogent
<br> it's prepended
Alistair_: I see
<br> Cogent do suck a lot
mercutio: it probably means virgin send to cogent when they can
Alistair_: oh yeah
<br> virgin are a huge fan of cogent
mercutio: arp don't advertise over cogent
<br> so it's good
Alistair_: Yeah
<br> I remember when cogent broke the peering to virgin and none of our traffic went to the USA
<br> So many mad customers
mercutio: heh
Alistair_: What on earth has virgin done o.o
<br> I have 25ms to OVH in france
<br> That used to me like 47ms
mercutio: they improved things it sounds like
<br> ovh have been improving their routing apparently
<br> i heard
<br> but mostly in the US
<br> cos of their new canada data centre
Alistair_: Yeah, it seems to be on OVH's side
<br> It's 19ms to the exchange hub for virgin which is like 10 minute walk from my premises o.o
mercutio: heh
<br> it probably takes a much longer path
<br> i found someone else doing bgp in detroit
<br> i dunno where detroit is haha
<br> oh michigan
Alistair_: Ah
mercutio: this anynode place has tooo much cogent
<br> All users wishing to run a Tor service (node or private site) are required to lease a /29 from us, and have the IPs assigned to them via SWIP.
<br> what
<br> they're allowing TOR?
m0unds: <u>Alistair_</u>: winmtr
Alistair_: oh yeah I have winmtr too
<br> Forgot about that
<br> <u>mercutio</u>: Tor isn't illegal
mercutio: yeah it encourages abuse though
Alistair_: It's very very resource heavy though
<br> Personally I'd say SWIP would be okay to run it on
mercutio: i dunno i think ddos attacks etc
m0unds: tor's gross
<br> turned into a ridiculous cesspool
Alistair_: I ran a tor node for a week once
m0unds: moreso than it was even 10 years ago
Alistair_: It used 400GB in bandwidth in 3 days
mercutio: heh
***: Nat_RH has joined #arpnetworks
up_the_irons: <u>Alistair_</u>: sorry for the delay, i'm really behind today. oh and, BGP sessions take longer than the initial VPS setup
Alistair_: <u>up_the_irons</u>: It's alright :)
mnathani: Whats the best way to learn about BGP without having access to any prefixes or AS Numbers?
mercutio: <u>mnathani</u>: you can get a view often without
<br> ask someone nicely
mnathani: a BGP session from ARP wouldn't really do me any good for instance ..
mercutio: cos partial route table?
<br> bgp doesn't really do any good unless you need to use it
mnathani: cos lack of AS, and prefixes to announce
<br> ideally I would like to have access to an AS, a /24 prefix and relationships with ISP at multiple locations to setup an anycast DNS network
mercutio: sounds good
<br> you can get your own AS and a /22
<br> in NZ reasonably easily
<br> but it costs money :/
<br> the multiple locations thing is actually really complicated
mnathani: Working for the likes of Hurricane Electric, or other large ISP would help the learning process
mercutio: the problem is you want the same transit providers in diff locations
<br> for some ones like cogent
<br> or you'll find people prefererring to take cogent routes
<br> and going to the wrong location
<br> cogent is a good example cos they're cheap
<br> so people often seem to prefer them
mnathani: how does Google do it with their Name Servers?
<br> I guess they are their own transit ;-)
mercutio: they use the same transit providers in dfif locations
<br> but their name servers aren't actually anycast
<br> they're mostly doing geoi ip stuff
<br> pointing at a close ip
<br> do host -t ns google.com
mnathani: I thought they did anycast their name servers
m0unds: you could do bgp sims or whatever
mercutio: ns1 through ns4
<br> it's going somewhere way further away than their web site for me
<br> well i suppose it's mostly that not everyone has experience with it
mnathani: http://dns.winvive.com/dns-tools/nsinvestigate.php?Domain=google.com
mercutio: some people anycast just not google
<br> cachefly anycast their naem serfvers i'm pretty sure
mnathani: each name server ns1, ns2, ns3 and ns4 come from a different /24
mercutio: yeah
<br> but that's not anycast
mnathani: it is if they announce it at different locations
mercutio: they're all like 170 msec away from me
<br> well google don't report location well
<br> they don't seem to know how to do reverse dns
<br> umm they're all on 216.2339 adresses
<br> i think they're all in mountain view or something
<br> i dunno
<br> 35.9 msec from arp
m0unds: it's probably just a view from wherever that site is
mercutio: i dunno it looks similar to what i get
<br> it's the asme even
<br> ok now do a lookup on www.google.com
<br> it'll give like 8 ip addrsess
<br> in the same location
m0unds: yep
mercutio: 74.125.237.208
mnathani: the web servers are not anycast
mercutio: so i get addresses like that
mnathani: I mean the name servers are anycast
mercutio: which is 34.8 msec away
mnathani: and return different response based on geo ip
mercutio: they're not anycast
<br> hangon
<br> i'll try from uk
<br> if they're anyhcast they're not spreasd out well
m0unds: yeah, constellation all within one continent
<br> hahaha
mnathani: let me send you trace to each one, you can compare your trace
mercutio: oh maybe they are anycast
<br> they're 10 msec from maidstone
<br> ok well they're anycast, but they're in fewer locations than 8.8.8.8, www.google.com, www.gmail.com
<br> and www.youtube.com
<br> actually 8.8.8.8 is a good example of anycast
mnathani: for sure
mercutio: and www.cachefly.com
mnathani: here are my traces: http://pastie.org/8532405
mercutio: hey you get a reverse dns :/
<br> on hop 5
<br> your isp is as bad as google though :/
mnathani: notice something interesting at hop 2
mercutio: nope?
mnathani: its DOD address space
<br> 7.207.122.129
m0unds: haha
mercutio: oh
<br> is that why no reverse dns
<br> i think ^24 is a spam block
mnathani: residential cable
mercutio: yeh so spam
m0unds: haha, depends on provider
mercutio: http://pastebin.com/zYWd8YBV
<br> that's what i get
<br> i wonder what google ttls are like
mnathani: whats special about the ttls?
m0unds: http://pastebin.com/1nLdMWVM
<br> wao wao wao
mercutio: that's curious
<br> so yoour isp connects to google los angeles
m0unds: yep
mercutio: or close to it
<br> whererever 600w seventh is
m0unds: la
mercutio: and yet you have a low ping
<br> but arp has a much higher ping
<br> i mean low piung idff between your ping to los angeles and google
<br> what's your ping to arp liek
m0unds: ang on
<br> hang on
<br> $ ping forklift.m0unds.net
<br> PING forklift.m0unds.net (174.136.98.43) 56(84) bytes of data.
<br> 64 bytes from forklift.m0unds.net (174.136.98.43): icmp_req=1 ttl=52 time=34.3 ms
<br> 64 bytes from forklift.m0unds.net (174.136.98.43): icmp_req=2 ttl=52 time=34.9 ms
<br> +/- .8ms
mercutio: yeh
<br> so that's strange
<br> that's about what arp gets to google :/
m0unds: http://pastebin.com/GUcMPDAR
mercutio: it'sreal similar route
m0unds: yea, most west-coast bound stuff from albuquerque via comcast will hit 600wseventh
mercutio: not that 40 msec or 1 msec pings to google's name servers from arp makes any noticable diff
m0unds: yep
<br> east coast stuff tends to hit dfw or denver
mercutio: do you guys get ~36 msec pings too?
m0unds: denver's much closer network-wise, like 18ms from denver
<br> err, 18ms from abq
mercutio: the pot smoking place?
m0unds: haha, sure
<br> i know it as the city 400mi north of me
mercutio: i dunno much about denver
<br> other tahn it seemed like they were trying to compete with the neverlands
m0unds: was just there last mo
mercutio: by legaliising marijuana
m0unds: doubt that thought had much to do with it
mercutio: i dunno what i saw looked might dodgy
m0unds: 37ms from goog ns1
mercutio: not that that is at all on topic
<br> yeah weird isn't it
<br> i imagine it's the reverse route
m0unds: yea
mercutio: it's 26.7 to 8.8.8.8
<br> or it could just be google being funky
m0unds: ABQ is 90ms from 8.8.8.8
mercutio: arp is 26 msec
m0unds: 8.8.4.4 is 67ms
mercutio: ok i'm giong to say it's google being funky
<br> so anyway
<br> even somewhere the size of google
<br> with as many taleneted people
<br> still manages to screw up anycast
<br> manages
<br> oh i spelt it right the first time
<br> and as you get into more locations, getting "ideal" routing gets more andm ore complicated
<br> like having good US, EU, AP routing
m0unds: yep, hard to be a master of everything
mercutio: is simpler than having best routing to diff parts of the US
<br> cos they have diff tarnsit providers that are common
<br> mind you
<br> comcast are huge now it seems :/
m0unds: they sure are
<br> and they're their own transit provider in a lot of cases
mercutio: they are
<br> i think this whole tier1/2 thing is bs
<br> not that what i think changes aynthing
<br> my main complaint is can't get low latency to europe
<br> and that's the same for all providers
<br> and there's distance problems in there
<br> but there's a possible shorter path from US to EU
<br> but really if there was a more direct path to EU than going via the US it'd benefit me
<br> and routing in the US is screwy to lots of places
<br> like from here to Kansas routing sucks
<br> Kansas seems to be one of the variable places for routing
<br> along with Seattle
<br> i assume it's lack of proper interconnections
<br> for kansas
<br> and i wonder if seattle doesn't have a direct enough cable route
<br> it says 1827k
<br> so it should be 25 msec ping or something
<br> from los angeles to seattle
<br> but it's more than that :/
<br> should be even less form san jose
<br> 1353 so like 20 msec?
m0unds: LA to seattle?
<br> it was like 40ms for me from ABQ->SEA via nlayer or whatever they are now
<br> and that was through LA
<br> 44ms
mercutio: i dunno where abq is
m0unds: SW US
<br> 800mi from LA
<br> http://vvro.us/1cpjFjx
<br> right at the intersection of i-40 and i-25 in new mexico
<br> time to brave the snow. bbl.
mercutio: yeah not that close to los angeles
m0unds: it's a tiny bit chilly
<br> haha
gizmoguy: i'm hot :(
<br> plz be sending me some snow m0unds
m0unds: hahaha, sure thing
<br> want some cold air to go with it? it's -8C outside
gizmoguy: a little cold air, but not that much
<br> I really need to solve the issue where I have lots of AC at work
<br> and none at home
m0unds: gotta figure out a way to capture some and ferry it home
<br> we budgeted re-HVACing our equipment room now that we have equipment deployed in a way that makes sense - before, the room was totally full (30 racks) and in no real order, so it was fully ambient air cooled. now that we're down to 5 racks at the headend, our room sits at like 49-50F, haha
mercutio: -8c wow
gizmoguy: it's ok guys, I just moved from my couch and opened some windows
mercutio: it's like 20c+ here
gizmoguy: temperature == better now
m0unds: hahaha
gizmoguy: and... on the other plus side, just poured the first beer of the weekend
m0unds: damn.
<br> i want beer.
gizmoguy: belgium triple, to make up for the long week
mercutio: gizmo what beder
m0unds: my weekend doesn't start til sunday
mercutio: beer
m0unds: nice
mercutio: sounds expensive
m0unds: still gotta get yourself set up on untappd gizmoguy
gizmoguy: hah yes
<br> I just thought that
<br> <u>mercutio</u>: tuatara
mercutio: say what?
<br> isn't that a lizard
<br> are you drinking a lizard
gizmoguy: belgium tripel
<br> I take it you aren't into the NZ craft beers
mercutio: not particularly no
gizmoguy: (which are damn tasty)
mercutio: i prefer spirits
gizmoguy: I need to restock the top shelf
mercutio: craft beers are usually damn expensive
<br> and they don't sell beer at the supermarkets here
gizmoguy: wait
mercutio: which is where i used to buy beer
gizmoguy: you're in auckland?
mercutio: west auckland
<br> bylaw
<br> blah
m0unds: just sold in liquor stores or something?
mercutio: yeh
m0unds: booooooooooo
mercutio: there's a liquor store nearish
gizmoguy: what kind of a backwards city are you in
mercutio: like 7 minutes drive away
<br> but parking there sucks
m0unds: haha
gizmoguy: even hamilton can do alcohol
mercutio: west auckland
gizmoguy: :)
mercutio: i know it's weird isn't it
***: Alistair_ has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
mercutio: i wish they'd have better parking
gizmoguy: hahahaha parking in auckland?
mercutio: heh
m0unds: i was up in CO in Nov. forgot what it's like to be somewhere you can't get good beer at grocery stores
mercutio: yeah in titirangi in particular
<br> there's like this car park that hardly ever has a spare park
<br> and when it does there seems to still be +3 cars
<br> and it's small
<br> and that's where the liquor store is
gizmoguy: and it's $100 per half hour?
mercutio: parking is free
<br> if you can get it :)
<br> god i went to newmarket the other day
<br> parking was insane there too
<br> i think it's cos of xmas
gizmoguy: made the mistake of parking in a wilson st carpark for lunch in auckland once
<br> Auckland CBD
mercutio: i made the mistake of parking at tournament
<br> i dunno if that's better or worse :/
<br> they want to charge $65 for gbeing 7 minutes over
gizmoguy: I thought it was gonna be a good rate
<br> but I misread the "per half hour" as "per hour"
mercutio: skytower is insanely expensive for parking
<br> and on top of that most of the parking is restricted
<br> was it prepay?
gizmoguy: bro, just sign print "NETWORK ENGINEER" on the side of van
<br> and park wherever
mercutio: at least sky tower isn't prepay
<br> i'm not driving a van
<br> i'm not a dodgy old man
m0unds: you should invest
mercutio: or a courier
m0unds: we have ample parking at our liquor stores
gizmoguy: my mate made the mistake of parking his work car in a handicapped parking spot
<br> they got soo many complaint calls
mercutio: haha
<br> i hate parking
gizmoguy: (he had permission from the building owner to park there if he was there less than 5 mins and there was another spare space)
mercutio: there's nothing worse than looping around a car park three times
<br> to try and find a park
gizmoguy: but he has been warned by management to not accept that offer ever again
mercutio: then some random person steals thep ark from you
gizmoguy: <u>mercutio</u>: I was picking up a router on symonds street one time
mercutio: then some idiots walk ijn the middle of the road
gizmoguy: parked in bus lane
<br> and 3 of us hauled it in as fast as we could
<br> and sped off
<br> a few bus drivers looked pretty pissy, but no complaints
mercutio: cool.
gizmoguy: (was in work car at the time as well :P)
mercutio: i get free parking at sky tower when i have to go up there
<br> but still have to loop around
<br> and like to go up there through the service area or whatever
<br> sometimes you have to park on a diff level
<br> it's kind of lame
<br> actually on the note of liquor sstores and data centres
<br> orcon's data centre is at at liquor store
<br> at a
gizmoguy: hah really?
<br> I've never been
mercutio: yeah
<br> underneath
<br> in northcote
<br> i hate northcote
gizmoguy: makes sense
<br> they brewed their own beer once
mercutio: they still do
<br> i tried some
gizmoguy: epic orcon?
mercutio: something like that
<br> it was boring tasting to me
<br> but tbh, i'm more into things like steinlager pure
gizmoguy: sigh :(
mercutio: which is prob bad to your tastes :)
gizmoguy: yes
mercutio: i like kingfisher too
<br> and heineken
gizmoguy: haha
mercutio: i hate db draught
<br> and lion red
<br> and shit like that :/
gizmoguy: I get kingfisher at least when I'm at indian restaurants
m0unds: haha
mercutio: have you tried kingfisher storng?
<br> strong?
gizmoguy: yeah mate
mercutio: that's kind of similar to the orcon beer
gizmoguy: we're quite good friends with our local indian
mercutio: i prefer normal king fisher
gizmoguy: I remember one time we turned up for dinner
mercutio: but kingfisher strong gets me surprisngly intoxicated :)
gizmoguy: and ordered 4 kingfisher strongs and a bottle of wine
mercutio: the large?
gizmoguy: yeah mate
<br> no other size to get
mercutio: heh
<br> each?
<br> :/
gizmoguy: lol
mercutio: i love indian food
gizmoguy: if you're ever in hamiltron
mercutio: but like even one kingfisher strong with a meal i can feel
gizmoguy: come to indian with us
mercutio: heh ok
<br> i usually try and get around hamilton tbh :/
gizmoguy: whenever I go there for lunch these days, I don't even really order
mercutio: heh
gizmoguy: I just suggest a meat or vege
<br> and they make something
mercutio: cool
<br> sounds good
gizmoguy: yeah they're good folks
mercutio: i like pepper cihcken
<br> but i dunno if that's actually auth indian
<br> :/
<br> not everywhere does it
gizmoguy: i've not seen it on any menus down here
mercutio: have you had karahi chicken?
<br> that's another thing not everyone seems to do
gizmoguy: wikipedia seems to suggest it's the same as kadai chicken
<br> which i've had lots
mercutio: ahh ok
<br> my fav is still saag chicken
<br> :/
gizmoguy: ohh yes <3 a good saag
mercutio: i esp. get it if trying out new places
<br> cos it's usually good :)
<br> have you had chicken tikka masala?
<br> i find most places are terrible at that
<br> but some are good
<br> same with mango chicken
<br> aloo ghobi is quite variable too
<br> damnit
<br> now i want indian
gizmoguy: i don't really like mango chicken
mercutio: i used to eat indian like 4 days a week
m0unds: i like chana masala
gizmoguy: aloo gobi is awesome
<br> or palak paneer
mercutio: mango chicken shouldn't be sweet
<br> some places make it really sweet
<br> and it's gross :/
<br> i used to be vegetarian for a while
<br> and i had lots of saag aloo, palak paneer, and allo gohiba
<br> and matter paneer
<br> or soemthign :/
<br> there was this cheap indian place by my house
gizmoguy: mutter paneer
<br> mutter is peas I think
<br> aloo is potato I think
mercutio: i eat really spicy indian :/
gizmoguy: me too
mercutio: i usually just ask for indian hot
gizmoguy: hah, our local made up a scale above indian hot for us
mercutio: then they ask if it was too hot, or hot enough afterwards
<br> and i get it hotter next time
gizmoguy: mild, medium, hot, indian hot, extra hot, extra extra hot
mercutio: yeh aparently at one place i was 2 above indian hot
gizmoguy: yup :)
mercutio: but like
gizmoguy: we have a really good mexican place down here too
mercutio: that was handy to know if someone random served me
gizmoguy: which you can be very precise what spice level you want
mercutio: interesting
<br> most indians here don't eat that hot food'
<br> the weird thing is
<br> when i was in chch indian places weren't very good
<br> i come to akld
<br> and they're all way better on average than chch
<br> but i can't find ANY good thai restaurants
<br> whereas chch had good thai
gizmoguy: yeah they're hard to come by
mercutio: but shit indian
<br> thing is i went to thai places in the city
<br> and so they're all gone
<br> i have had bad indian food in akld too
<br> have youe ver been to that indian restaurant in central akld?
<br> i was surprised that a) it was open late, b) how good it was
<br> it's naer the sky tower somewhere
<br> wonder what it was called
gizmoguy: don't think so
<br> my fav place in auckland would be monsoon poon
mercutio: haven't been there
gizmoguy: go!
mercutio: what suburb?
gizmoguy: CBD
<br> round the corner from the PWC building
<br> near the wharf
mercutio: raviz
<br> it looks like
m0unds: ...monsoon poon?
gizmoguy: <u>m0unds</u>: http://www.monsoonpoon.co.nz/
<br> restaurant chain in NZ
mercutio: i hate the wharf
<br> it's like the shitty side of town :/
gizmoguy: great food
m0unds: ..ahahahah
mercutio: is there parking?
m0unds: the name is just funny
<br> #poonpics
<br> jesus
gizmoguy: their dessert cocktails are delicious
mercutio: it says 8 min transit - work
<br> i wonder where it thinks i work :/
<br> it thinks i work in 16 wellesley street west
<br> it seems
gizmoguy: <u>m0unds</u>: their's always a "love you long time" sticker either on the way in or out of monsoon poon
m0unds: that's fantastic
<br> i like this place a lot: http://thaivegannm.com/frame/homeosuna.html
mercutio: why does it think i work there
<br> haha
gizmoguy: <u>m0unds</u>: looks yummy!
mercutio: google is funny
gizmoguy: I love the new google now feature
mercutio: apparently there's a place called "Vodafone's ihug" now
gizmoguy: "Your friend just made it home [4 mins ago]"
mercutio: oh that always tells me how long it is to palces
gizmoguy: soo creepy :/
mercutio: that i've looked up
<br> oh what
<br> i wonder what mine says now
<br> 30 minutes to 11-27 customs street west
<br> which is the address of that monsoon place
<br> i wonder how far it says hamilton is away
<br> 1 hour 48 minutes
gizmoguy: yeah so whenever you search a location in google maps on your pc
<br> your phone will start to give you directions/time estimates
mercutio: yeah
<br> so much driving :/
<br> apparently cao get five buses to hamilton
<br> taking 4 hours
m0unds: haha
mercutio: 177 -> 060x 070x 080 090
<br> oh it's four diff ones
<br> and then it's a train
<br> WalkBus177Bus060X070X080090Bus09F048048X079097138163X179X197TrainNEXBus8Walk
<br> oh
<br> that doesn't cut/paste
<br> hmm raviz has $20 for 20 itmes
<br> i assume that means buffet :/
<br> oh and not at the city one
<br> oh hangon
<br> it does think i work at sky tower
<br> again
<br> i dunno how it got that idea
<br> how does it decide where you work
<br> like it doesnt' decide i work at the supermarket
gizmoguy: try:
<br> open google now
<br> scroll to bottom
<br> click magic wand
<br> click Places
<br> there should be a "Work" place
mercutio: magic wand?
<br> oh you mean settings
gizmoguy: it's a magic wand on my phone
mercutio: it's got my home address wrong too
<br> weird
<br> i have like an =
<br> with an extra bar
<br> yeah but where is my work meant to be set to :/
<br> i work from home
<br> i was more just curious how it decides
gizmoguy: http://imgur.com/kN3jmu6
m0unds: yuo haz notificashuns
mercutio: Imgur is over capacity!
<br> Sorry! We're busy running around with our hair on fire because Imgur is over capacity! This can happen when the site is under a very heavy load, or while we're doing maintenance.
<br> Please try again in a few minutes.
m0unds: you broke imgur
mercutio: buce
<br> nice
<br> it loadead fast
<br> oh reload worked
<br> oh you do have a wand
<br> i don't
<br> i have four buttons at the bot though
<br> nice google being consistent :/
<br> you have an android 4 phone right
m0unds: yup
<br> google ux ftw
<br> hahaha
mercutio: liek stock 4
gizmoguy: 4.3 yeah
<br> stock
<br> no rom
mercutio: i have 4.1
<br> but the newer ones have diff buttons
<br> like i have real buttons
gizmoguy: ah yup
<br> get a nexus5
mercutio: well not really real just touch
<br> i thought about it
<br> buyt like $700
<br> and too big
<br> i actually ilke my phone
<br> it has better battery life htan nexus 4 it seems
<br> is cheaper
gizmoguy: which phone?
mercutio: htc desire s
gizmoguy: ah yup
mercutio: single core
<br> 1.2 ghz i think
<br> 768mb ram
<br> 480x800 resolution
<br> so it's not amazing
gizmoguy: single core. how does it even make phone calls and play youtube at the same time?
mercutio: i don't want to watch youtube on my computer
<br> let alone my phone
gizmoguy: how do you watch cats playing with sticks!?
mercutio: i don't like cats
<br> i don't really see the point of cats
m0unds: http://sdrv.ms/1bkJNY8
mercutio: they just get in the way needlessly
<br> sleep eat
m0unds: just like people
mercutio: and break things
<br> claw furniture etc
<br> and then make annoying noises when they want to be let through doors
<br> i don't think cats like me very much anyway
m0unds: haha
mercutio: someone said it's cos i make sudden movements
<br> but the trick with cats seems to be to half pay attention to them
m0unds: depends
<br> i have three cats and they're all different
mercutio: like they'll try and come up to you when you're not paying attention / doing something else
<br> and get in the way
m0unds: two of them are real chill and don't really care what you do, and the other is high strung and kinda sensitive to noise/motion
mercutio: most i see seem to be highly strung
<br> or stay on the sidelines
m0unds: none are really lap cats or anything, they jsut sorta do their own thing for the most part
<br> mine anyway
mercutio: they stilpl seem skittish around me :/
m0unds: one is sitting on the back of the couch behind me, one is asleep on the other side of the couch and the other is laying on his back in the middle of the floor
mercutio: i think it's partially whether they get used to you or not
m0unds: yeah
mercutio: but it does kind of weird you out
<br> if you like walk into a room
<br> and suddenly the cat dats around
<br> darts
<br> or if you look at it and it runs away
<br> dogs aren't ilke that
m0unds: haha
mercutio: dogs just bark
<br> wel lif they're healthy
CaZe: Dogs don't bark everytime you walk into a room.
avj: If you listen to nothing else in calendar year 2013, check this shit out
gizmoguy: <u>m0unds</u>: https://untappd.com/user/gizmoguy
avj: 116 Feb 17 2013 04 Dropped.m4a
<br> -rw-r--r-- 1 avj www 9380217 Feb 17 2013 05 Unless.m4a
<br> -rw-r--r-- 1 avj www 12268387 Feb 17 2013 06 Stuck Together Pieces.m4a
<br> -rw-r--r-- 1 avj www 6902336 Feb 17 2013 07 Judge, Jury And Executioner.m4a
<br> -rw-r--r-- 1 avj www 10468675 Feb 17 2013 08 Reverse Running.m4a
***: avj has quit IRC (Excess Flood)
gizmoguy: avj, lol
***: laotzi has quit IRC (Quit: leaving)
<br> laotzi has joined #arpnetworks
<br> Alistair_ has joined #arpnetworks