#arpnetworks 2013-12-05,Thu

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Alistair_	Hello!	[14:38]
meingtsla	hi.	[14:40]
Alistair_	How long is the setup normally?	[14:43]
meingtsla	it may take up to 24 hours i think	[14:44]
Alistair_	Would BGP take longer on top of that?	[14:44]
meingtsla	ah, i was assuming you were talking about vpses and dedicated servers, my bad. not sure about that to be honest	[14:45]
Alistair_	Yeah, I just ordered a VPS and will be looking for a BGP session on top of it Sorry, I should have said up_the_irons: Are you here at the moment?	[14:45]
staticsafe	Alistair_: best to e-mail support@	[14:49]
mercutio	it's most evenings US time alistair: bgp is less than a week normally i think but more than a day i have bgp btw	[14:55]
Alistair_	Sweet, I'm only just getting to grips with BGP :)	[14:56]
staticsafe	BGP is so much fun	[14:57]
mercutio	what OS?	[14:57]
Alistair_	I ordered debian 6 to run with quagga I have a raspberry pi running at home with quagga too and it's alright but there is no peers for me at home	[14:57]
mercutio	ok i hate quagga, but it works	[14:58]
Alistair_	What do you use?	[14:58]
mercutio	i use openbgpd, bird, and quagga	[14:58]
Alistair_	Ah	[14:58]
mercutio	i like openbgpd the best i wish there was a version on linux	[14:58]
Alistair_	quagga was just the easiest for me to setup as a first time BGP user	[14:59]
staticsafe	openbgpd was great was playing it with it at home	[14:59]
mercutio	well the main annoyance with quagga is the route maps for filtering prefixes static: i had huge issues with zebra so i changed to quagga and i stilli had issues one day i decided to try openbgpd	[14:59]
Alistair_	I managed to peer 2 machines but neither of which had the routing tables	[14:59]
mercutio	and i'm like paranoid cos quagga was a pita :/	[14:59]
Alistair_	and that's the bit that I want to see and have a bit of fun with	[15:00]
mercutio	then it's like uhh that was "too easy"	[15:00]
staticsafe	mercutio: I did RouterOS <-> openbgpd	[15:00]
mercutio	static: oh god, i've tried using routeros i still get confused	[15:00]
staticsafe	its not that hard	[15:00]
mercutio	is there some clean way on routeros to find out what routes you're advertising?	[15:00]
staticsafe	i agree its not intuitive sec	[15:00]
mercutio	i haven't touched routeros too much but whenever i do i'm like erk	[15:01]
Alistair_	Can you BGP over WAN? So say I peer with someone that has the global routing table and announce the block, would this work or do I need to peer with my band width provider too?	[15:01]
mercutio	static: arp only has partial bgp tables btw oops alistair even what do you want route tables for? you can bgp over anything you can use bgp multihop if you're not adjacent	[15:01]
Alistair_	One of my partners has allowed me to use his spare /24	[15:02]
mercutio	or you can use a tunnel to be adjacent	[15:02]
staticsafe	mercutio: /routing bgp network print	[15:02]
mercutio	alistair: cool.	[15:02]
Alistair_	but im sure without the routing table peers I cant use the ips	[15:02]
mercutio	that doesn't show detail i want to see what routes with what prepends are being advertised to what peers alistair: you don't need to see other routes to advertise a /24	[15:03]
Alistair_	Oh?	[15:03]
staticsafe	mercutio: yea i don't think the functionality is that great but i haven't played with it in depth	[15:03]
Alistair_	Mind giving me a few pointers as to how I go about this then?	[15:04]
mercutio	when you advertise a subnet, you just asking other poeple to send traffic for that subnet to you when you see routes, from one or more hosts, it means you can see what path it takes and if more than one peer choose the best path	[15:04]
Alistair_	I see	[15:04]
mercutio	alistair: well, i'm pretty sure arp use prefix lists themselves so you can't really do anything wrong and you don't even have another route table to inject are you going to advertise the /24 just on arp?	[15:04]
Alistair_	BGP has got to be the most confusing thing i've ever used	[15:05]
mercutio	or are you looking to do something omre complex like anycast alistair: that's what i heard in 2000 then i started to learn more about it and i'm like why did i think it was complicated? :)	[15:05]
Alistair_	Just looking to use it on ARP	[15:05]
mercutio	mm.. yeh that setup is pretty simple	[15:05]
Alistair_	Uni/multicast i think is what im after	[15:06]
mercutio	i can help you if you get stuck do you have an ASN?	[15:06]
Alistair_	Yeah	[15:06]
mercutio	or can you use ASN of whoever owns the subnet	[15:06]
Alistair_	The owner of the subnet ASN	[15:06]
plett	As an edge network on the internet who just announces a single prefix to one or two upstreams, BGP is quite straightforward	[15:06]
mercutio	plett: yeh basically you just do: router bgp <asn> network <subnet> neighber 174.136...(ip address of gateway) remote-as 25795 neighbor	[15:07]
staticsafe	yea	[15:07]
plett	It's when you want to provide BGP to other people, or have multiple locations to announce from, that it gets complicated	[15:07]
mercutio	you're from the uk?	[15:08]
Alistair_	I am yes	[15:08]
mercutio	so you prob are like thinking neighbour should work :/ but it doesn't :/	[15:08]
staticsafe	heh	[15:08]
Alistair_	I'll PM you the subnet and ASN	[15:08]
plett	plett is also from the UK :)	[15:08]
mercutio	you probably also want a route map :/ for good measure access-list local_nets permit Wsubnet>	[15:09]
Alistair_	Alistair_ is in the north of the UK	[15:09]
mercutio	access-list local_nets deny any	[15:09]
plett	plett is in the much better south	[15:09]
mercutio	yeh that subnet isn't already advertised to the internet	[15:10]
Alistair_	Yup	[15:10]
mercutio	not even as part of a larger subnet	[15:10]
Alistair_	There is a another subnet I can use if i need to use one under a larger subnet	[15:10]
mercutio	should be fine some people strip /24s like arp :/ but there's usually default routes	[15:11]
Alistair_	I think that is what my partner has done	[15:11]
mercutio	that'll get through anyway	[15:11]
Alistair_	How possible is it to use said subnet on a home router? With quagga on said router of course	[15:12]
mercutio	well your isp prob won't let you do bgp to them unless you're using a geek isp :/	[15:12]
plett	mercutio: ARP don't filter all /24s, my home address space is reachable	[15:12]
Alistair_	No they don't	[15:12]
mercutio	plett: reachable by default route? i think they allow /24s on any2ix	[15:12]
Alistair_	Could I say perhaps BGP over WAN to a peer and announce it?	[15:13]
mercutio	you can tunnel the /24	[15:13]
plett	mercutio: Looks like it's going over NTT from ARP	[15:13]
mercutio	but if you're in the UK the path will be much worse your isp might advertise the /24 on your behalf if you ask them nicely and route it to your home depending on how geeky they are agin :/ i have a /29 for home	[15:13]
Alistair_	I tried that, they're answer was "What is BGP?" >.>	[15:14]
mercutio	plett: i think ntt is default route, tell me the subnet and i can ccheck if it's in arp's bgp table :/	[15:14]
plett	Alistair_: If you happen to need a better ISP, I work for aa.net.uk	[15:14]
mercutio	alistair: heh	[15:14]
plett	mercutio: 91.241.56.0/24	[15:14]
mercutio	plett: do you do bgp to customers? err home users yeah it's not	[15:14]
Alistair_	Virgin media is just so bad but its the only service that can get me more than 2mbps	[15:15]
plett	mercutio: We prefer not to do it over residential grade DSL connections, but if that's the only way then yes	[15:15]
mercutio	plett: heh alistair: you could tunnel all of your traffic	[15:15]
plett	mercutio: That prefix is being announced over my FTTC VDSL from home	[15:15]
mercutio	maybe plett's isp can sell you a l2tp/ipsec tunnel or soemthing :/ you';re 3.2557?	[15:15]
Alistair_	So that'd be BGP over GRE?	[15:16]
mercutio	l2tp isn't gre virgin media is cable right	[15:16]
Alistair_	Well same idea as it Yeah they are FTTC	[15:17]
plett	mercutio: We are more than happy to announce other people's IP space on their behalf and route it to their DSL line(s). We've got a handful of particularly geeky customers who do that	[15:17]
mercutio	the main issue is you need to do mss clamping	[15:17]
plett	Virgin is DOCSIS cable, yes	[15:17]
mercutio	if you can't do a bigger l2 mtu plett: but you can't resell virgin cable can you? :) plett: that, to me, sounds like asking for problems :)	[15:17]
plett	mercutio: No, we can't. They don't offer wholesale connections to anyone	[15:18]
mercutio	but i'm fine doing it for myself. :/ plett: yeah i thought that was the case and BT suck i have a friend who used to live in cambridge and bitched about how bad internet in the UK was	[15:18]
plett	BT Retail suck. The wholesale service can be made to work well	[15:18]
mercutio	apparently cambridge is especially bad	[15:18]
Alistair_	So if I did BGP over l2tp/ipsec where would the traffic go? Over the tunnel or over my virgin line?	[15:18]
mercutio	like 1 megabit dsl or something or virgin who he refused to deal with alistair: to the tunnel endpoint	[15:19]
Alistair_	Thought so	[15:19]
mercutio	you can do it on a vps in the UK or someone who'll terminate l2tp ti's basifcally a vpn	[15:19]
Alistair_	BGP sounds like so much fun haha	[15:19]
mercutio	but afaik BT ppp termiantes in something akin to l2tp anyway so infrastructure support in the UK shoudl be good anyway :/ plett: does BT wholesale support 1500 mtu yet?	[15:20]
plett	mercutio: Yes. That's what we buy from BT. There are other options where they terminate it and route IP to the ISP, but that sucks Yes. 1500 mtu is no problem, even over PPPoE	[15:20]
Alistair_	BT says that my postcode gets "Up to 5.5Mbps", didn't even get 3Mbps so hence why went with virgin	[15:21]
plett	BT does RFC4638 (and yes, I do know that RFC number from memory)	[15:21]
m0unds	haha pppoe ftl	[15:21]
mercutio	plett: so would you sell l2tp tunnel ? :)" pppoe is fine	[15:21]
plett	mercutio: We do, yes :)	[15:22]
m0unds	nah	[15:22]
mercutio	plett: do you do ipsec on it?	[15:22]
plett	No, just plain L2TP at the moment	[15:22]
mercutio	oh yip probably fine :/ so alistair confused yet?	[15:22]
Alistair_	Very	[15:23]
plett	BGP over an L2TP to a residential grade connection elsewhere on the internet wouldn't be something I'd prefer to do, but it would work	[15:23]
mercutio	if you wanted to get creative you could do l2tp to arp, and l2tp to plett's isp and advertise the subnet on both but prepend the routes to arp :/	[15:23]
plett	Alistair_: What is the problem you're actually trying to solve?	[15:24]
mercutio	he just wants a /24 at home i think and to play with bgp	[15:24]
Alistair_	Yeah, more to play with BGP than anything	[15:24]
mercutio	mercutio lets alistair answer	[15:24]
Alistair_	I have the ASN and IP space already from elsewhere but I don't want to pay too much just to play	[15:24]
mercutio	alistair: it's an uncommon request tbh	[15:25]
Alistair_	Yeah, hence why im after advice	[15:25]
mercutio	arp is kind of cool in that they do it easily	[15:25]
plett	Alistair_: Out of interest, how did you get address space and an ASN without also already knowing how to do this sort of thing?	[15:25]
Alistair_	plett: Partner I work with let me borrow his	[15:25]
plett	RIPE PI space?	[15:26]
Alistair_	AH now there is a problem ARIN PI	[15:26]
plett	Not a technical problem, possibly a logistical one I don't know what ARIN's policies are about using their address space outside of the ARIN region	[15:26]
Alistair_	It's a no-no	[15:27]
plett	I thought that might be the case. That is also RIPE's policy	[15:27]
Alistair_	it's written but its not enforced very often	[15:27]
mercutio	i'm advertising APNIC IP space to arp	[15:28]
Alistair_	Can you open a BGP session with a second router with the same ASN?	[15:28]
mercutio	yes	[15:28]
plett	mercutio: Do APNIC have a similar policy?	[15:28]
mercutio	plett: huh? i've never heard of such a policy	[15:28]
staticsafe	staticsafe wonders how much IP space + ASN costs in ARIN region	[15:29]
mercutio	it works	[15:29]
plett	Okay	[15:29]
mercutio	but i have a backup tunnel i'm advertising /24 that's inside a bigger /21 and there's a backup route to get back	[15:29]
Alistair_	So I could in theory have my partner setup l2tp on his router and peer with me at home and both use the same ASN?	[15:29]
mercutio	but it seems to just work	[15:29]
plett	mercutio: I only ask because I had an email from an Australian who is moving to the UK and wants to bring his APNIC /24 space and use it on his UK broadband	[15:29]
mercutio	alistair: you can use the same ASN in multiple unconnected locations plett: well tehre may be non ideal routing but i think that's mostly a think of the 90s it used to be routers that could only take 100k or less routes were common etc	[15:29]
Alistair_	mercutio: I would only be peered with the one router though	[15:30]
mercutio	and having non PI space was a problem nad lots of peopld idn't have proper PI space but instead an allocation from a larger subnet	[15:30]
plett	Yeah. De-aggregation sucks a bit	[15:31]
mercutio	Alistair_: if at all possible i'd try and get "close" distance for the tunnel	[15:31]
plett	Long live IPv6 :)	[15:31]
mercutio	you don't want to go to UK sites via the US	[15:31]
m0unds	that'd be a long half a second or more	[15:32]
mercutio	which is why i was suggesting that plett's isp may be able to do something	[15:32]
Alistair_	Yeah of course without doubt	[15:32]
plett	About 150ms round trip time between ARP and London	[15:32]
m0unds	that little?	[15:33]
Alistair_	There is a public exchange in scotland (IXScotland) so ideally something that is in the same datacentre	[15:33]
mercutio	that's high the ideal path is more like 130	[15:33]
m0unds	considering the distance, not really	[15:33]
mercutio	but often things aren't ideal :/	[15:33]
plett	mercutio: That's from ARP to here via NTT	[15:34]
mercutio	plett: ntt both directions?	[15:34]
plett	From ARP to www.bbc.co.uk , it's about 136ms	[15:34]
Alistair_	I have 7ms to IXScotland	[15:34]
plett	mercutio: Yep. NTT both ways	[15:34]
mercutio	hah it's 156 via atrato to maidstone	[15:34]
plett	Alistair_: IXScotland is still very very new and small	[15:34]
Alistair_	Yeah but it's there so its a step in the right direction	[15:35]
mercutio	146 to bbc.co.uk via ntt/telia	[15:35]
plett	Alistair_: Absolutely	[15:35]
Alistair_	The datacenter that it's in has 16 carriers so it should grow soon	[15:35]
mercutio	alistair: well if you can terminate there that's good can you get a vps there?	[15:36]
plett	We are LINX members, and peer on the London LAN. If we had any existing infrastructure in Manchester or Edinburgh, we'd be peering there too	[15:36]
Alistair_	mercutio: It wouldn't make a difference really because virgin media is not peered there yet unless I got a dedi and got my transit from VM	[15:37]
mercutio	i thought you had 7 msec to there virgin aren't pro peering i think	[15:37]
Alistair_	Virgin is on site but the 7msec is not leaving their network thats to their routers onsite	[15:38]
mercutio	how much is it to a host on that network?	[15:38]
Alistair_	Not too sure, the host is carrier neutral so it would most likely be transit from VM They don't seem to list prices on their website I've been in their newbridge facility but never in their south gyle one which is where IXScotland is	[15:39]
mercutio	well good luck :)	[15:42]
Alistair_	I am considering touring their south gyle one for nothing more than a look and ball parks	[15:43]
plett	Alistair_: Is that Pulsant (ex Scolocate/Lumison) ?	[15:43]
Alistair_	It is indeed	[15:44]
plett	We are Pulsant (ex BlueSquare) customers in Maidenhead	[15:44]
Alistair_	What is your experience like with them? The idea of not paying remote hands on colo is really appealing to me seeing we pay up to £70 per hour	[15:45]
mercutio	remote hands usually suck i'd recommend doing it yourself :/	[15:46]
plett	We're fairly happy with them	[15:46]
Alistair_	At least in Pulsant at Edinburgh its only a 15 minute drive away	[15:46]
plett	Yeah. We're about 15 mins drive from them in Maidenhead	[15:47]
mercutio	hmm alistair: does your partner have ip address space at that dc?	[15:47]
plett	But we only ever have to visit in the event of a hardware failure. IPMI and out-of-band access takes care of everything else	[15:47]
Alistair_	He doesn't sadly	[15:48]
mercutio	oh	[15:48]
Alistair_	I think he is looking into it with the exchange being on site though	[15:48]
mercutio	i wouldn't woorry about excahnges being on site too much i'd consider a good dc a higher priority	[15:48]
Alistair_	Yeah	[15:49]
mercutio	i used to think differently but now days lots of people run ring networks to various locations and there's lots of shared networks you can get on	[15:49]
Alistair_	Well if their Newbridge facility was anything to go by when I took a tour of it then their South gyle one is supposed to be even better	[15:50]
mercutio	sounds expensive :)	[15:50]
plett	I've got to run. Bedtime for me :)	[15:50]
Alistair_	They wanted £50 + network and power for a 1U box	[15:50]
mercutio	is it 1 am for you plett?	[15:50]
plett	mercutio: 23:50 at the moment	[15:50]
mercutio	50 pounds? sounds reasonable	[15:50]
Alistair_	Yeah	[15:50]
mercutio	not great though plett: bertter run before you turn into a pumpkin then	[15:51]
plett	Indeed. I need to get up for work in the morning :)	[15:52]
Alistair_	I've been doing freelance for someone over in the states lately so nighshift for me tonight	[15:52]
mercutio	heh	[15:54]
Alistair_	I actually can't wait to get my hands on some real BGP stuff xD	[15:57]
mercutio	heh you never know up_the_irons might poke his head in and decide to do it quickly :) actually it takes ages because upstreams have to be sent the ip's too and can take a few hours or something to unfilter them i forgot about thjat :/	[15:58]
Alistair_	Ah	[15:59]
mercutio	i want to do more anycast heh anycast is cool it means you can have dns server on one ip adress in mltuple locations and the closest dns server responds	[15:59]
Alistair_	Yeah My partner has a range on anycast with host virtual	[16:00]
mercutio	ahh ok	[16:00]
Alistair_	HTTP nodes for DDoS protection proxies	[16:00]
mercutio	i just contacted host virtual about setting up bgp :/ it looks ilke it's free on hostvirtual fwiw i reckon arp is better than hostvirtual	[16:00]
Alistair_	We actually got some pretty neat ip's in our /22	[16:01]
mercutio	but i have lower ping to host virtual	[16:01]
Alistair_	Setup rsync for all the servers, trust me	[16:01]
mercutio	well hostvirtual in san jose	[16:01]
Alistair_	partner never did it and now its 9 manual changes >.>	[16:01]
mercutio	what there's a $200 setup fee	[16:01]
Alistair_	Netrouting is pretty good too	[16:02]
mercutio	ok they only do it on 1gb of ram or more hosts $200 setup fee $300/month for anycast ip's blah blah there's $0 monthly fee but $200 setup fee is heaps when i want to just play with it	[16:03]
staticsafe	heh	[16:03]
mercutio	do doo doo	[16:04]
Alistair_	Yup	[16:04]
mercutio	maybe i shoudl cancel my vm with them i'm going to complain that it says free on their web site :/	[16:04]
staticsafe	free*	[16:04]
Alistair_	I found arp networks looking for cheap servers with BGP to play with	[16:04]
mercutio	yeh so did i i think no actually i found it cos i wanted openbsd and ipv6 was nice i think bgp came later actually i might have asked about bgp before it was offered i've asked other providers about bgp :/	[16:07]
Alistair_	Most of them won't do it	[16:08]
mercutio	steadfast will	[16:08]
Alistair_	it's so annoying because I already have servers that I could use without paying extra but they won't do bgp I'm mainly with OVH at the minute	[16:09]
mercutio	i think ovh will do bgp	[16:09]
Alistair_	I've asked over the phone and they said nope maybe I should try emailing them	[16:09]
mercutio	http://forum.ovh.co.uk/showthread.php?2589-AS-BGP-peering-and-transit	[16:09]
Alistair_	That's from 2009, they said it's changed now	[16:10]
mercutio	i think they used to do bgp? i dunno heh damn some poeople don't want to deal with the complications on lower paying customers :/ haha i swearched for bgp and vps and found arp first	[16:10]
Alistair_	It's taken me days to find arp	[16:11]
mercutio	and gridlane that i've never heard of in sweden	[16:11]
Alistair_	arp is still cheaper	[16:12]
mercutio	yeh i'm just looking for more locaitons :/	[16:13]
Alistair_	What is it that you need the locations for?	[16:14]
mercutio	anycast dns :/	[16:14]
Alistair_	Ah	[16:14]
mercutio	i don't need ;/	[16:15]
Alistair_	I would recommend host virtual then	[16:15]
mercutio	screw $200 setup fee host virtual had some network issues before	[16:15]
Alistair_	Ahh, one of them "I want this but I don't need it" things?	[16:15]
mercutio	more than ocne they're not wonderful and i wouldnt' want to feel ilke i have to stick with them yeh it's kind of like overclocking you might gain 5% improvement	[16:15]
Alistair_	yup	[16:16]
mercutio	at the risk of instability but once you know you can do it it tempts at you	[16:16]
Alistair_	I got more than 5% out of mine though :3	[16:16]
mercutio	well los angeles is 130 to 160 msec from london so it could make that much difference in ping having a EU location so that's more than 5% :/	[16:16]
Alistair_	Wait, really? o.o I'd expect more than that	[16:16]
mercutio	i'm in new zealand los angeles is 140 msec from here give or take 10 msec	[16:17]
Alistair_	That's not too bad What IP are you trying that with? I'll try it from here	[16:17]
mercutio	202.49.65.254 is an example anycasted heh i should fix up the reverse dns it's liekly to hit arop arp	[16:18]
Alistair_	Goes to LA from here too and yeah arp	[16:19]
mercutio	via arp? :) yeh compare that to say 202.49.71.24	[16:19]
Alistair_	~165ms to the .254 .24 went over my second connection oh dear	[16:19]
mercutio	second connection?	[16:20]
Alistair_	3g modem	[16:21]
mercutio	oh why's that?	[16:21]
Alistair_	round robin with dual wan	[16:21]
mercutio	eww :) try again then :)	[16:21]
Alistair_	Once you demand the data it speeds up and goes down to about 61ms to london so the 3g aint bad Runs at about 18mbit where I am atm	[16:21]
mercutio	ahh ok i imagine it's about 300 msec to 202.49.71.24 via non 3g	[16:22]
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Alistair__	Woops, IRC was running on the 3g when I dissconnected it around 330ms to the .24 ip	[16:23]
***	Alistair_ has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) Alistair__ is now known as Alistair_	[16:26]
mercutio	330 wow that's high	[16:27]
Alistair_	http://i.imgur.com/2exH9ay.png	[16:28]
mercutio	fucking cogent it'd be lower if it tunneled via arp :) is 202.36.174.250 better? i dunno how cogent manage to have 187 msec to california	[16:28]
Alistair_	windows is so slow at traceroutes	[16:30]
mercutio	yeh it is	[16:30]
Alistair_	but mtr seems to preak when cogent is in the loop break* http://i.imgur.com/9rDEB61.png	[16:30]
mercutio	oh not much better and still cogent i dunno why it's cogent it's prepended	[16:31]
Alistair_	I see Cogent do suck a lot	[16:32]
mercutio	it probably means virgin send to cogent when they can	[16:32]
Alistair_	oh yeah virgin are a huge fan of cogent	[16:32]
mercutio	arp don't advertise over cogent so it's good	[16:33]
Alistair_	Yeah I remember when cogent broke the peering to virgin and none of our traffic went to the USA So many mad customers	[16:33]
mercutio	heh	[16:34]
Alistair_	What on earth has virgin done o.o I have 25ms to OVH in france That used to me like 47ms	[16:34]
mercutio	they improved things it sounds like ovh have been improving their routing apparently i heard but mostly in the US cos of their new canada data centre	[16:34]
Alistair_	Yeah, it seems to be on OVH's side It's 19ms to the exchange hub for virgin which is like 10 minute walk from my premises o.o	[16:36]
mercutio	heh it probably takes a much longer path i found someone else doing bgp in detroit i dunno where detroit is haha oh michigan	[16:41]
Alistair_	Ah	[16:44]
mercutio	this anynode place has tooo much cogent All users wishing to run a Tor service (node or private site) are required to lease a /29 from us, and have the IPs assigned to them via SWIP. what they're allowing TOR?	[16:48]
m0unds	Alistair_: winmtr	[16:52]
Alistair_	oh yeah I have winmtr too Forgot about that mercutio: Tor isn't illegal	[16:56]
mercutio	yeah it encourages abuse though	[16:58]
Alistair_	It's very very resource heavy though Personally I'd say SWIP would be okay to run it on	[16:58]
mercutio	i dunno i think ddos attacks etc	[16:59]
m0unds	tor's gross turned into a ridiculous cesspool	[17:00]
Alistair_	I ran a tor node for a week once	[17:00]
m0unds	moreso than it was even 10 years ago	[17:00]
Alistair_	It used 400GB in bandwidth in 3 days	[17:00]
mercutio	heh	[17:02]
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.................. (idle for 1h26mn)
up_the_irons	Alistair_: sorry for the delay, i'm really behind today. oh and, BGP sessions take longer than the initial VPS setup	[19:27]
...... (idle for 25mn)
Alistair_	up_the_irons: It's alright :)	[19:52]
mnathani	Whats the best way to learn about BGP without having access to any prefixes or AS Numbers?	[19:57]
mercutio	mnathani: you can get a view often without ask someone nicely	[20:04]
mnathani	a BGP session from ARP wouldn't really do me any good for instance ..	[20:05]
mercutio	cos partial route table? bgp doesn't really do any good unless you need to use it	[20:06]
mnathani	cos lack of AS, and prefixes to announce ideally I would like to have access to an AS, a /24 prefix and relationships with ISP at multiple locations to setup an anycast DNS network	[20:06]
mercutio	sounds good you can get your own AS and a /22 in NZ reasonably easily but it costs money :/ the multiple locations thing is actually really complicated	[20:07]
mnathani	Working for the likes of Hurricane Electric, or other large ISP would help the learning process	[20:09]
mercutio	the problem is you want the same transit providers in diff locations for some ones like cogent or you'll find people prefererring to take cogent routes and going to the wrong location cogent is a good example cos they're cheap so people often seem to prefer them	[20:12]
mnathani	how does Google do it with their Name Servers? I guess they are their own transit ;-)	[20:13]
mercutio	they use the same transit providers in dfif locations but their name servers aren't actually anycast they're mostly doing geoi ip stuff pointing at a close ip do host -t ns google.com	[20:14]
mnathani	I thought they did anycast their name servers	[20:15]
m0unds	you could do bgp sims or whatever	[20:15]
mercutio	ns1 through ns4 it's going somewhere way further away than their web site for me well i suppose it's mostly that not everyone has experience with it	[20:15]
mnathani	http://dns.winvive.com/dns-tools/nsinvestigate.php?Domain=google.com	[20:16]
mercutio	some people anycast just not google cachefly anycast their naem serfvers i'm pretty sure	[20:16]
mnathani	each name server ns1, ns2, ns3 and ns4 come from a different /24	[20:16]
mercutio	yeah but that's not anycast	[20:16]
mnathani	it is if they announce it at different locations	[20:17]
mercutio	they're all like 170 msec away from me well google don't report location well they don't seem to know how to do reverse dns umm they're all on 216.2339 adresses i think they're all in mountain view or something i dunno 35.9 msec from arp	[20:17]
m0unds	it's probably just a view from wherever that site is	[20:18]
mercutio	i dunno it looks similar to what i get it's the asme even ok now do a lookup on www.google.com it'll give like 8 ip addrsess in the same location	[20:18]
m0unds	yep	[20:19]
mercutio	74.125.237.208	[20:19]
mnathani	the web servers are not anycast	[20:19]
mercutio	so i get addresses like that	[20:19]
mnathani	I mean the name servers are anycast	[20:19]
mercutio	which is 34.8 msec away	[20:19]
mnathani	and return different response based on geo ip	[20:19]
mercutio	they're not anycast hangon i'll try from uk if they're anyhcast they're not spreasd out well	[20:19]
m0unds	yeah, constellation all within one continent hahaha	[20:19]
mnathani	let me send you trace to each one, you can compare your trace	[20:19]
mercutio	oh maybe they are anycast they're 10 msec from maidstone ok well they're anycast, but they're in fewer locations than 8.8.8.8, www.google.com, www.gmail.com and www.youtube.com actually 8.8.8.8 is a good example of anycast	[20:20]
mnathani	for sure	[20:21]
mercutio	and www.cachefly.com	[20:21]
mnathani	here are my traces: http://pastie.org/8532405	[20:21]
mercutio	hey you get a reverse dns :/ on hop 5 your isp is as bad as google though :/	[20:22]
mnathani	notice something interesting at hop 2	[20:22]
mercutio	nope?	[20:22]
mnathani	its DOD address space 7.207.122.129	[20:23]
m0unds	haha	[20:23]
mercutio	oh is that why no reverse dns i think ^24 is a spam block	[20:23]
mnathani	residential cable	[20:23]
mercutio	yeh so spam	[20:24]
m0unds	haha, depends on provider	[20:24]
mercutio	http://pastebin.com/zYWd8YBV that's what i get i wonder what google ttls are like	[20:24]
mnathani	whats special about the ttls?	[20:27]
m0unds	http://pastebin.com/1nLdMWVM wao wao wao	[20:27]
mercutio	that's curious so yoour isp connects to google los angeles	[20:28]
m0unds	yep	[20:29]
mercutio	or close to it whererever 600w seventh is	[20:29]
m0unds	la	[20:29]
mercutio	and yet you have a low ping but arp has a much higher ping i mean low piung idff between your ping to los angeles and google what's your ping to arp liek	[20:29]
m0unds	ang on hang on $ ping forklift.m0unds.net PING forklift.m0unds.net (174.136.98.43) 56(84) bytes of data. 64 bytes from forklift.m0unds.net (174.136.98.43): icmp_req=1 ttl=52 time=34.3 ms 64 bytes from forklift.m0unds.net (174.136.98.43): icmp_req=2 ttl=52 time=34.9 ms +/- .8ms	[20:29]
mercutio	yeh so that's strange that's about what arp gets to google :/	[20:30]
m0unds	http://pastebin.com/GUcMPDAR	[20:31]
mercutio	it'sreal similar route	[20:31]
m0unds	yea, most west-coast bound stuff from albuquerque via comcast will hit 600wseventh	[20:32]
mercutio	not that 40 msec or 1 msec pings to google's name servers from arp makes any noticable diff	[20:32]
m0unds	yep east coast stuff tends to hit dfw or denver	[20:32]
mercutio	do you guys get ~36 msec pings too?	[20:32]
m0unds	denver's much closer network-wise, like 18ms from denver err, 18ms from abq	[20:32]
mercutio	the pot smoking place?	[20:32]
m0unds	haha, sure i know it as the city 400mi north of me	[20:33]
mercutio	i dunno much about denver other tahn it seemed like they were trying to compete with the neverlands	[20:33]
m0unds	was just there last mo	[20:33]
mercutio	by legaliising marijuana	[20:33]
m0unds	doubt that thought had much to do with it	[20:33]
mercutio	i dunno what i saw looked might dodgy	[20:34]
m0unds	37ms from goog ns1	[20:34]
mercutio	not that that is at all on topic yeah weird isn't it i imagine it's the reverse route	[20:34]
m0unds	yea	[20:34]
mercutio	it's 26.7 to 8.8.8.8 or it could just be google being funky	[20:35]
m0unds	ABQ is 90ms from 8.8.8.8	[20:35]
mercutio	arp is 26 msec	[20:35]
m0unds	8.8.4.4 is 67ms	[20:35]
mercutio	ok i'm giong to say it's google being funky so anyway even somewhere the size of google with as many taleneted people still manages to screw up anycast manages oh i spelt it right the first time and as you get into more locations, getting "ideal" routing gets more andm ore complicated like having good US, EU, AP routing	[20:36]
m0unds	yep, hard to be a master of everything	[20:37]
mercutio	is simpler than having best routing to diff parts of the US cos they have diff tarnsit providers that are common mind you comcast are huge now it seems :/	[20:37]
m0unds	they sure are and they're their own transit provider in a lot of cases	[20:37]
mercutio	they are i think this whole tier1/2 thing is bs not that what i think changes aynthing my main complaint is can't get low latency to europe and that's the same for all providers and there's distance problems in there but there's a possible shorter path from US to EU but really if there was a more direct path to EU than going via the US it'd benefit me and routing in the US is screwy to lots of places like from here to Kansas routing sucks Kansas seems to be one of the variable places for routing along with Seattle i assume it's lack of proper interconnections for kansas and i wonder if seattle doesn't have a direct enough cable route it says 1827k so it should be 25 msec ping or something from los angeles to seattle but it's more than that :/ should be even less form san jose 1353 so like 20 msec?	[20:37]
m0unds	LA to seattle? it was like 40ms for me from ABQ->SEA via nlayer or whatever they are now and that was through LA 44ms	[20:48]
mercutio	i dunno where abq is	[20:48]
m0unds	SW US 800mi from LA http://vvro.us/1cpjFjx right at the intersection of i-40 and i-25 in new mexico time to brave the snow. bbl.	[20:48]
mercutio	yeah not that close to los angeles	[21:03]
....... (idle for 34mn)
m0unds	it's a tiny bit chilly haha	[21:37]
gizmoguy	i'm hot :( plz be sending me some snow m0unds	[21:47]
m0unds	hahaha, sure thing want some cold air to go with it? it's -8C outside	[21:50]
gizmoguy	a little cold air, but not that much I really need to solve the issue where I have lots of AC at work and none at home	[21:50]
m0unds	gotta figure out a way to capture some and ferry it home we budgeted re-HVACing our equipment room now that we have equipment deployed in a way that makes sense - before, the room was totally full (30 racks) and in no real order, so it was fully ambient air cooled. now that we're down to 5 racks at the headend, our room sits at like 49-50F, haha	[21:51]
mercutio	-8c wow	[21:54]
gizmoguy	it's ok guys, I just moved from my couch and opened some windows	[21:54]
mercutio	it's like 20c+ here	[21:54]
gizmoguy	temperature == better now	[21:54]
m0unds	hahaha	[21:54]
gizmoguy	and... on the other plus side, just poured the first beer of the weekend	[21:54]
m0unds	damn. i want beer.	[21:54]
gizmoguy	belgium triple, to make up for the long week	[21:54]
mercutio	gizmo what beder	[21:54]
m0unds	my weekend doesn't start til sunday	[21:54]
mercutio	beer	[21:54]
m0unds	nice	[21:54]
mercutio	sounds expensive	[21:54]
m0unds	still gotta get yourself set up on untappd gizmoguy	[21:55]
gizmoguy	hah yes I just thought that mercutio: tuatara	[21:55]
mercutio	say what? isn't that a lizard are you drinking a lizard	[21:55]
gizmoguy	belgium tripel I take it you aren't into the NZ craft beers	[21:55]
mercutio	not particularly no	[21:56]
gizmoguy	(which are damn tasty)	[21:56]
mercutio	i prefer spirits	[21:56]
gizmoguy	I need to restock the top shelf	[21:56]
mercutio	craft beers are usually damn expensive and they don't sell beer at the supermarkets here	[21:56]
gizmoguy	wait	[21:56]
mercutio	which is where i used to buy beer	[21:56]
gizmoguy	you're in auckland?	[21:57]
mercutio	west auckland bylaw blah	[21:57]
m0unds	just sold in liquor stores or something?	[21:57]
mercutio	yeh	[21:57]
m0unds	booooooooooo	[21:57]
mercutio	there's a liquor store nearish	[21:57]
gizmoguy	what kind of a backwards city are you in	[21:57]
mercutio	like 7 minutes drive away but parking there sucks	[21:57]
m0unds	haha	[21:57]
gizmoguy	even hamilton can do alcohol	[21:57]
mercutio	west auckland	[21:57]
gizmoguy	:)	[21:57]
mercutio	i know it's weird isn't it	[21:57]
***	Alistair_ has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)	[21:57]
mercutio	i wish they'd have better parking	[21:58]
gizmoguy	hahahaha parking in auckland?	[21:58]
mercutio	heh	[21:58]
m0unds	i was up in CO in Nov. forgot what it's like to be somewhere you can't get good beer at grocery stores	[21:58]
mercutio	yeah in titirangi in particular there's like this car park that hardly ever has a spare park and when it does there seems to still be +3 cars and it's small and that's where the liquor store is	[21:58]
gizmoguy	and it's $100 per half hour?	[21:59]
mercutio	parking is free if you can get it :) god i went to newmarket the other day parking was insane there too i think it's cos of xmas	[21:59]
gizmoguy	made the mistake of parking in a wilson st carpark for lunch in auckland once Auckland CBD	[21:59]
mercutio	i made the mistake of parking at tournament i dunno if that's better or worse :/ they want to charge $65 for gbeing 7 minutes over	[21:59]
gizmoguy	I thought it was gonna be a good rate but I misread the "per half hour" as "per hour"	[22:00]
mercutio	skytower is insanely expensive for parking and on top of that most of the parking is restricted was it prepay?	[22:00]
gizmoguy	bro, just sign print "NETWORK ENGINEER" on the side of van and park wherever	[22:00]
mercutio	at least sky tower isn't prepay i'm not driving a van i'm not a dodgy old man	[22:01]
m0unds	you should invest	[22:01]
mercutio	or a courier	[22:01]
m0unds	we have ample parking at our liquor stores	[22:01]
gizmoguy	my mate made the mistake of parking his work car in a handicapped parking spot they got soo many complaint calls	[22:01]
mercutio	haha i hate parking	[22:01]
gizmoguy	(he had permission from the building owner to park there if he was there less than 5 mins and there was another spare space)	[22:02]
mercutio	there's nothing worse than looping around a car park three times to try and find a park	[22:02]
gizmoguy	but he has been warned by management to not accept that offer ever again	[22:02]
mercutio	then some random person steals thep ark from you	[22:02]
gizmoguy	mercutio: I was picking up a router on symonds street one time	[22:02]
mercutio	then some idiots walk ijn the middle of the road	[22:02]
gizmoguy	parked in bus lane and 3 of us hauled it in as fast as we could and sped off a few bus drivers looked pretty pissy, but no complaints	[22:02]
mercutio	cool.	[22:02]
gizmoguy	(was in work car at the time as well :P)	[22:03]
mercutio	i get free parking at sky tower when i have to go up there but still have to loop around and like to go up there through the service area or whatever sometimes you have to park on a diff level it's kind of lame actually on the note of liquor sstores and data centres orcon's data centre is at at liquor store at a	[22:03]
gizmoguy	hah really? I've never been	[22:04]
mercutio	yeah underneath in northcote i hate northcote	[22:04]
gizmoguy	makes sense they brewed their own beer once	[22:04]
mercutio	they still do i tried some	[22:04]
gizmoguy	epic orcon?	[22:04]
mercutio	something like that it was boring tasting to me but tbh, i'm more into things like steinlager pure	[22:05]
gizmoguy	sigh :(	[22:05]
mercutio	which is prob bad to your tastes :)	[22:05]
gizmoguy	yes	[22:05]
mercutio	i like kingfisher too and heineken	[22:05]
gizmoguy	haha	[22:05]
mercutio	i hate db draught and lion red and shit like that :/	[22:05]
gizmoguy	I get kingfisher at least when I'm at indian restaurants	[22:05]
m0unds	haha	[22:06]
mercutio	have you tried kingfisher storng? strong?	[22:06]
gizmoguy	yeah mate	[22:06]
mercutio	that's kind of similar to the orcon beer	[22:06]
gizmoguy	we're quite good friends with our local indian	[22:06]
mercutio	i prefer normal king fisher	[22:06]
gizmoguy	I remember one time we turned up for dinner	[22:06]
mercutio	but kingfisher strong gets me surprisngly intoxicated :)	[22:06]
gizmoguy	and ordered 4 kingfisher strongs and a bottle of wine	[22:06]
mercutio	the large?	[22:06]
gizmoguy	yeah mate no other size to get	[22:06]
mercutio	heh each? :/	[22:06]
gizmoguy	lol	[22:07]
mercutio	i love indian food	[22:07]
gizmoguy	if you're ever in hamiltron	[22:07]
mercutio	but like even one kingfisher strong with a meal i can feel	[22:07]
gizmoguy	come to indian with us	[22:07]
mercutio	heh ok i usually try and get around hamilton tbh :/	[22:07]
gizmoguy	whenever I go there for lunch these days, I don't even really order	[22:07]
mercutio	heh	[22:07]
gizmoguy	I just suggest a meat or vege and they make something	[22:08]
mercutio	cool sounds good	[22:08]
gizmoguy	yeah they're good folks	[22:08]
mercutio	i like pepper cihcken but i dunno if that's actually auth indian :/ not everywhere does it	[22:08]
gizmoguy	i've not seen it on any menus down here	[22:08]
mercutio	have you had karahi chicken? that's another thing not everyone seems to do	[22:08]
gizmoguy	wikipedia seems to suggest it's the same as kadai chicken which i've had lots	[22:09]
mercutio	ahh ok my fav is still saag chicken :/	[22:09]
gizmoguy	ohh yes <3 a good saag	[22:09]
mercutio	i esp. get it if trying out new places cos it's usually good :) have you had chicken tikka masala? i find most places are terrible at that but some are good same with mango chicken aloo ghobi is quite variable too damnit now i want indian	[22:10]
gizmoguy	i don't really like mango chicken	[22:11]
mercutio	i used to eat indian like 4 days a week	[22:11]
m0unds	i like chana masala	[22:11]
gizmoguy	aloo gobi is awesome or palak paneer	[22:11]
mercutio	mango chicken shouldn't be sweet some places make it really sweet and it's gross :/ i used to be vegetarian for a while and i had lots of saag aloo, palak paneer, and allo gohiba and matter paneer or soemthign :/ there was this cheap indian place by my house	[22:11]
gizmoguy	mutter paneer mutter is peas I think aloo is potato I think	[22:12]
mercutio	i eat really spicy indian :/	[22:12]
gizmoguy	me too	[22:12]
mercutio	i usually just ask for indian hot	[22:12]
gizmoguy	hah, our local made up a scale above indian hot for us	[22:13]
mercutio	then they ask if it was too hot, or hot enough afterwards and i get it hotter next time	[22:13]
gizmoguy	mild, medium, hot, indian hot, extra hot, extra extra hot	[22:13]
mercutio	yeh aparently at one place i was 2 above indian hot	[22:13]
gizmoguy	yup :)	[22:13]
mercutio	but like	[22:13]
gizmoguy	we have a really good mexican place down here too	[22:13]
mercutio	that was handy to know if someone random served me	[22:13]
gizmoguy	which you can be very precise what spice level you want	[22:13]
mercutio	interesting most indians here don't eat that hot food' the weird thing is when i was in chch indian places weren't very good i come to akld and they're all way better on average than chch but i can't find ANY good thai restaurants whereas chch had good thai	[22:14]
gizmoguy	yeah they're hard to come by	[22:14]
mercutio	but shit indian thing is i went to thai places in the city and so they're all gone i have had bad indian food in akld too have youe ver been to that indian restaurant in central akld? i was surprised that a) it was open late, b) how good it was it's naer the sky tower somewhere wonder what it was called	[22:14]
gizmoguy	don't think so my fav place in auckland would be monsoon poon	[22:16]
mercutio	haven't been there	[22:17]
gizmoguy	go!	[22:17]
mercutio	what suburb?	[22:17]
gizmoguy	CBD round the corner from the PWC building near the wharf	[22:17]
mercutio	raviz it looks like	[22:17]
m0unds	...monsoon poon?	[22:17]
gizmoguy	m0unds: http://www.monsoonpoon.co.nz/ restaurant chain in NZ	[22:17]
mercutio	i hate the wharf it's like the shitty side of town :/	[22:18]
gizmoguy	great food	[22:18]
m0unds	..ahahahah	[22:18]
mercutio	is there parking?	[22:18]
m0unds	the name is just funny #poonpics jesus	[22:18]
gizmoguy	their dessert cocktails are delicious	[22:18]
mercutio	it says 8 min transit - work i wonder where it thinks i work :/ it thinks i work in 16 wellesley street west it seems	[22:19]
gizmoguy	m0unds: their's always a "love you long time" sticker either on the way in or out of monsoon poon	[22:19]
m0unds	that's fantastic i like this place a lot: http://thaivegannm.com/frame/homeosuna.html	[22:19]
mercutio	why does it think i work there haha	[22:20]
gizmoguy	m0unds: looks yummy!	[22:20]
mercutio	google is funny	[22:20]
gizmoguy	I love the new google now feature	[22:20]
mercutio	apparently there's a place called "Vodafone's ihug" now	[22:20]
gizmoguy	"Your friend just made it home [4 mins ago]"	[22:20]
mercutio	oh that always tells me how long it is to palces	[22:20]
gizmoguy	soo creepy :/	[22:21]
mercutio	that i've looked up oh what i wonder what mine says now 30 minutes to 11-27 customs street west which is the address of that monsoon place i wonder how far it says hamilton is away 1 hour 48 minutes	[22:21]
gizmoguy	yeah so whenever you search a location in google maps on your pc your phone will start to give you directions/time estimates	[22:22]
mercutio	yeah so much driving :/ apparently cao get five buses to hamilton taking 4 hours	[22:22]
m0unds	haha	[22:23]
mercutio	177 -> 060x 070x 080 090 oh it's four diff ones and then it's a train WalkBus177Bus060X070X080090Bus09F048048X079097138163X179X197TrainNEXBus8Walk oh that doesn't cut/paste hmm raviz has $20 for 20 itmes i assume that means buffet :/ oh and not at the city one oh hangon it does think i work at sky tower again i dunno how it got that idea how does it decide where you work like it doesnt' decide i work at the supermarket	[22:23]
gizmoguy	try: open google now scroll to bottom click magic wand click Places there should be a "Work" place	[22:26]
mercutio	magic wand? oh you mean settings	[22:26]
gizmoguy	it's a magic wand on my phone	[22:27]
mercutio	it's got my home address wrong too weird i have like an = with an extra bar yeah but where is my work meant to be set to :/ i work from home i was more just curious how it decides	[22:28]
gizmoguy	http://imgur.com/kN3jmu6	[22:28]
m0unds	yuo haz notificashuns	[22:29]
mercutio	Imgur is over capacity! Sorry! We're busy running around with our hair on fire because Imgur is over capacity! This can happen when the site is under a very heavy load, or while we're doing maintenance. Please try again in a few minutes.	[22:29]
m0unds	you broke imgur	[22:29]
mercutio	buce nice it loadead fast oh reload worked oh you do have a wand i don't i have four buttons at the bot though nice google being consistent :/ you have an android 4 phone right	[22:29]
m0unds	yup google ux ftw hahaha	[22:30]
mercutio	liek stock 4	[22:30]
gizmoguy	4.3 yeah stock no rom	[22:30]
mercutio	i have 4.1 but the newer ones have diff buttons like i have real buttons	[22:30]
gizmoguy	ah yup get a nexus5	[22:31]
mercutio	well not really real just touch i thought about it buyt like $700 and too big i actually ilke my phone it has better battery life htan nexus 4 it seems is cheaper	[22:31]
gizmoguy	which phone?	[22:32]
mercutio	htc desire s	[22:32]
gizmoguy	ah yup	[22:32]
mercutio	single core 1.2 ghz i think 768mb ram 480x800 resolution so it's not amazing	[22:32]
gizmoguy	single core. how does it even make phone calls and play youtube at the same time?	[22:32]
mercutio	i don't want to watch youtube on my computer let alone my phone	[22:32]
gizmoguy	how do you watch cats playing with sticks!?	[22:33]
mercutio	i don't like cats i don't really see the point of cats	[22:33]
m0unds	http://sdrv.ms/1bkJNY8	[22:33]
mercutio	they just get in the way needlessly sleep eat	[22:34]
m0unds	just like people	[22:34]
mercutio	and break things claw furniture etc and then make annoying noises when they want to be let through doors i don't think cats like me very much anyway	[22:34]
m0unds	haha	[22:37]
mercutio	someone said it's cos i make sudden movements but the trick with cats seems to be to half pay attention to them	[22:37]
m0unds	depends i have three cats and they're all different	[22:38]
mercutio	like they'll try and come up to you when you're not paying attention / doing something else and get in the way	[22:39]
m0unds	two of them are real chill and don't really care what you do, and the other is high strung and kinda sensitive to noise/motion	[22:39]
mercutio	most i see seem to be highly strung or stay on the sidelines	[22:39]
m0unds	none are really lap cats or anything, they jsut sorta do their own thing for the most part mine anyway	[22:39]
mercutio	they stilpl seem skittish around me :/	[22:40]
m0unds	one is sitting on the back of the couch behind me, one is asleep on the other side of the couch and the other is laying on his back in the middle of the floor	[22:40]
mercutio	i think it's partially whether they get used to you or not	[22:41]
m0unds	yeah	[22:41]
mercutio	but it does kind of weird you out if you like walk into a room and suddenly the cat dats around darts or if you look at it and it runs away dogs aren't ilke that	[22:41]
m0unds	haha	[22:42]
mercutio	dogs just bark wel lif they're healthy	[22:42]
CaZe	Dogs don't bark everytime you walk into a room.	[22:53]
avj	If you listen to nothing else in calendar year 2013, check this shit out	[22:55]
gizmoguy	m0unds: https://untappd.com/user/gizmoguy	[23:06]
avj	116 Feb 17 2013 04 Dropped.m4a -rw-r--r-- 1 avj www 9380217 Feb 17 2013 05 Unless.m4a -rw-r--r-- 1 avj www 12268387 Feb 17 2013 06 Stuck Together Pieces.m4a -rw-r--r-- 1 avj www 6902336 Feb 17 2013 07 Judge, Jury And Executioner.m4a -rw-r--r-- 1 avj www 10468675 Feb 17 2013 08 Reverse Running.m4a	[23:10]
***	avj has quit IRC (Excess Flood)	[23:10]
gizmoguy	avj, lol	[23:11]
***	laotzi has quit IRC (Quit: leaving) laotzi has joined #arpnetworks	[23:18]
........ (idle for 36mn)
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