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[01:15] <up_the_irons> hello from weechat-android
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[01:25] <robonerd> im curious, what's the big deal wrt weechat?
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[01:28] <brachiation> i think it is more actively maintained that irssi. and i heard irssi has less than stellar code ( wouldn't know personally).
[01:30] <mike-burns> Plus, weechat-android.
[01:30] <mike-burns> I tried writing a weechat relay library in Python, but man is it a weird protocol.
[01:31] <up_the_irons> robonerd: i just like it a lot...
[01:40] <brachiation> i use irssi, because it was the first irc client i started using, and i am afraid of change.
[01:44] <robonerd> hehe
[01:48] <hazardous> wow
[01:48] <hazardous> why are you guys awake at this hour @_@
[01:49] <brachiation> i'm studying networking. so that when i meetup with up_the_irons tomorrow i will know what he is talking about :)
[01:50] <brachiation> i am but an egg.
[01:51] <hazardous> i start uni tomorrow
[01:51] <hazardous> and i'm like weirdly anxious and stuff
[01:53] <brachiation> that's not weird at all.
[01:53] <brachiation> i'd say that is a normal response.
[01:53] <robonerd> hazardous use a rubber, dude
[01:53] <robonerd> especially with chicks in "women's studies" classes
[01:54] <brachiation> i spend 90% of my college time kicking a bean bag around with friends.
[01:54] <hazardous> there aren't going to be chicks
[01:54] <hazardous> wait, are there chicks in eecs, or at least the intro classes
[01:55] <robonerd> none i'd want to need to put a rubber on for
[01:56] <hazardous> figures
[01:56] <up_the_irons> lol
[01:57] <up_the_irons> brachiation cool :)
[01:58] <up_the_irons> i used to kick a bag around with brachiation back in the day...
[01:59] <brachiation> yeah, up_the_irons was the 'hail mary' guy. the bag would stay in the air for like 10 seconds.
[01:59] <brachiation> but would usually give us time to decide who should be next to kick it.
[02:00] <brachiation> that was too much fun.
[02:02] <brachiation> one of the first time i met up_the_irons, i practiced some judo on him.
[02:04] <up_the_irons> i think i got flipped
[02:04] <hazardous> i've never kicked a beanbag before
[02:04] <brachiation> yeah it was in a big open field.
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[02:04] <hazardous> you'd prob get arrested nowadays if you did that because it's a "potential danger to others"
[02:05] <up_the_irons> oh.. was that at kevi's bday party or something...
[02:05] <brachiation> i think it was kevi's party.
[02:05] <up_the_irons> man.. memories
[02:05] <brachiation> yep, that's when it was.
[02:05] <hazardous> it feels weird being in a channel where people talk about things that happened before i was born
[02:06] <staticsafe> old people!
[02:07] <up_the_irons> lol
[02:07] <brachiation> you are only old when you settle in life. if you keep learning, and doing things, you live just as much as any kid.
[02:08] <brachiation> but sometimes i get weird looks when i go to a park by myself and play on the slide.
[02:09] <mike-burns> But if you remember the commercial about getting chocolate in her peanut butter, you're probably considered old.
[02:09] <mike-burns> (I learned this recently.)
[02:09] <hazardous> i dunno what that is
[02:09] <hazardous> lol
[02:09] * up_the_irons thinks
[02:09] * up_the_irons shrugs
[02:09] <brachiation> looking that up right now... found on youtube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DJLDF6qZUX0
[02:09] <mike-burns> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DJLDF6qZUX0
[02:09] <mike-burns> Yeah.
[02:10] <brachiation> never seen it, yay i'm not old!
[02:10] <mike-burns> I'm surprised you don't remember it!
[02:12] <brachiation> the oldest thing i can remember watching is fraggle rock.
[02:13] <hazardous> i spent a good minute
[02:13] <hazardous> trying to figure out how to turn up quality for that
[02:13] <staticsafe> hazardous: starting uni, how old are you? :o
[02:14] <hazardous> then read the title
[02:14] <hazardous> :L
[02:14] <brachiation> if you remember a time when you could trick or treat AFTER the sunset, then you are old.
[02:14] * up_the_irons nods
[02:15] <hazardous> haha
[02:15] <hazardous> brachiation, after the sunset?
[02:15] <hazardous> this implies you're even allowed outside
[02:15] <hazardous> my friend;s little brother did a trick or treat last year and it basically involved going to a community church's parking lot
[02:15] <hazardous> and everyone had a few bags of candy in their trunk
[02:15] <hazardous> and just going around and getting some
[02:15] <brachiation> nowadays people start trick or treating at like 4am, and stop by 6:30.
[02:16] <brachiation> 4pm*
[02:17] <mike-burns> 4am seems reasonable, too.
[02:18] <brachiation> wouldn't get much candy though.
[02:26] <brachiation> my grandparents used to give me entire candy bars. i always thought people who did that were millionaires.
[02:29] <up_the_irons> hahaha
[02:32] <hazardous> fun sized: not actually fun
[02:38] <brachiation> they just keep making the regular size smaller, so they can make a new 'king size' that is the same as what regular used to be.
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[02:54] <rgouveia> hi
[03:07] <up_the_irons> heya
[03:17] <rgouveia> i was wondering what's the kvm host that you use ... looking at switching from esxi5 which hosts a bunch of openbsd guests
[03:17] <up_the_irons> rgouveia: do you mean kvm/qemu version?
[03:18] <rgouveia> yeah, and under wichi distro
[03:19] <up_the_irons> rgouveia: most of our hosts are still on ubuntu jaunty.  Our newer ones are on Lucid.
[03:23] <brachiation> Windows Virtual PC, running virtualized Windows XP's under a Windows Server 2003 host.
[03:23] <brachiation> with Weatherbug preinstalled on each guest.
[03:24] <rgouveia> up_the_irons: right, better support on ubuntu than others or just personal preference?
[03:24] <hazardous> brachiation: man, i remember winxp, my first OS lol
[03:25] <rgouveia> brachiation: yeah, and virtualgirl
[03:25] <brachiation> rgouveia: is that a screensaver?
[03:25] <up_the_irons> rgouveia: personal preference
[03:25] <rgouveia> up_the_irons: okidoke, thanks!
[03:26] <up_the_irons> rgouveia: no problem :)
[03:26] <rgouveia> brachiation: yeah, something like that bonzi gorilla iirc
[03:26] <hazardous> i think you guys
[03:26] <hazardous> would appreicate this
[03:26] <brachiation> lol bonzai buddy!
[03:26] <hazardous> http://www.reddit.com/r/PHP/comments/1l7baq/creating_a_user_from_the_web_problem/
[03:28] <hazardous> i think brachiation vomited
[03:28] <brachiation> oh my god...
[03:28] <staticsafe> heh
[03:29] <brachiation> did he... destroy his webserver?
[03:30] <brachiation> i don't see anymore replies from him after the suggested input.
[03:31] <brachiation> it is a joke i think.
[03:32] <brachiation> my favorite is this one: http://bash.org/?244321
[03:33] <up_the_irons> LOL "I sense a great disturbance in the Force, as if millions of voices suddenly cried out in terror, and were suddenly silenced"
[03:33] <staticsafe> bash.org ftw
[03:44] <toddf> if you don't want to reinvent the management bits random shout out for proxmox.com (free distro, can get paid support if need be) .. its debian plus kvm plus proxmox virtual environment, can cluster manage servers, etc..
[03:46] <up_the_irons> i should offer private cloud packages with hardware + proxmox bundled
[03:48] <up_the_irons> toddf: did you notice any network blips during the last 10 - 15 mins?  I had to reset our NTT link and was wondering how well the failover worked...
[03:48] <rgouveia> toddf: heard of that too
[03:49] <staticsafe> up_the_irons: monitoring didn't say anything, so I guess the failover worked :p
[03:50] <up_the_irons> staticsafe: sweet :)
[03:51] <toddf> up_the_irons: I'm noticing less network blips now that I've moved my irssi to home instead of my vps. did this way back when I thought the vps was unstable but turns out it was the virtio nic implementation in openbsd or something.
[03:51] <up_the_irons> toddf: ah ok
[03:52] <up_the_irons> toddf: do you run proxmox on any of your own gear, or for work... or?
[03:52] <toddf> I would move it back, except by being at home I can hit a silc of a client over openvpn that I'm not quite sure I should plumb up to be accessable from my vps .. ;-)
[03:53] <up_the_irons> :)
[03:53] <toddf> up_the_irons: have a friend who lets me play in his proxmox env, uses freenas for backing store; I have one client with proxmox installed and another client that's moving towards replacing esxi with proxomx (they have the version that does not have the license to even do serial console over tcp)
[03:55] <toddf> the one that plans to replace esxi is likely to use the clustering capabilities (can migrate vm's between hosts, manage common auth bits, web ui rocks, no windows to manage!)
[03:55] <up_the_irons> so i'm finally settled into weechat 0.4.1, and latest bitlee (can use twitter now), and i must say... awesome.  I can tweet way easier and not have a browser plugin that requires access to all info in all tabs and all history (wth do so many chrome plugins need this??)
[03:55] <staticsafe> bitlbee is awesome indeed
[03:56] <toddf> regardless of the rest, the one hands down feature I still find mind blowing is that /etc/pve is a fuse fs that presents vi'able config files that are live updated from the db and stored back in the db upon write, so web ui and cmdline fs are all reading/writing from the same db ;-)
[03:56] <up_the_irons> holy shit
[03:56] <up_the_irons> sold.
[03:57] <up_the_irons> toddf: and all this is included in the free version?
[03:57] <toddf> the 2nd most mind blowing bits about proxmox is that there is a command line tool to manage vm's.. 'qm start 300' 'qm stop 300' 'qm list' (it also manages openvz instances)
[03:57] <toddf> to the best of my knowledge proxmox is 100% free .. if you want a support contract, thats when you pay
[03:58] <up_the_irons> wow holy crap
[04:02] <up_the_irons> i wonder if it has vmware or ec2 compatible api's...
[04:02] <rgouveia> toddf: any ideas of how upgrades work in the longerm ?
[04:02] <toddf> the one single feature I wish I had time to develop for them is the ability to enable the serial port via the web ui .. as it is one can add serial support via an 'args:' entry in their conf file manually, aka 'args: -serial tcp:localhost:5000,server,nowait' etc
[04:03] <toddf> rgouveia: standard 'apt-get update;apt-get upgrade;apt-get dist-upgrade' or if you're paranoid just have multiple systems in a cluster, migrate vm's away from a system you want to upgrade, and reinstall the upgrade'ing system from scratch, migrate back, done .. choose your poison
[04:04] <rgouveia> it just looks too good to be true ;-)
[04:04] <up_the_irons> toddf: how does your friend like freenas?
[04:05] <up_the_irons> rgouveia: yeah i know right? ;)
[04:07] <rgouveia> in their pricing page they mention: 'Stable software updates' on the paid versions
[04:08] <hazardous> probably off topic, but why is my bsd box sending  kqueue_add: fdpoll is full ! x 3 bililon to my terminal
[04:08] <toddf> up_the_irons: has complained now and then, but once upgraded to v3 proxmox that supports nfsv4 apparently works much better; doesn't have switches that can do laags so had to put iscsi on one nic and nfs on another before things were acceptable; freenas is more or less a web ui wrapper around freebsd + iscsi + zfs + nfs server + cifs + appletalk file server; it has some lack of logging is the biggest complaint; I actually have a ...
[04:08] <toddf> ... freenas system under my wing at the same client who is moving to proxmox, likely to learn a lot in the process ;-)
[04:09] <up_the_irons> toddf: ah cool
[04:09] <rgouveia> seems that are two repos: http://pve.proxmox.com/wiki/Package_repositories
[04:09] <toddf> hazardous: you probably are reaching a threshold in system limits, either increase system limits, or tell your app to stop going berzerk
[04:09] <up_the_irons> hazardous: tubes clogged
[04:10] <rgouveia> time to get some food, bbl
[04:11] * up_the_irons waves
[04:15] <toddf> http://todd.fries.net/pub/proxmox-cli-demo.txt ..
[04:16] <up_the_irons> LOL "ToddsCrap"
[04:18] <up_the_irons> that looks pretty awesome
[04:18] <toddf> the webgui console is java, works with anything I've used, but is slow .. at least its encrypted .. but I can avoid that by doing an inetd trick running 'qm vncproxy 300' then connecting via '/usr/local/lib/ssvnc/ssvnc_cmd -proxy vencrypt://10.255.3.129:59701 10.255.3.129:59701 -noraiseonbeep'
[04:21] <up_the_irons> wonder how proxmox compares to http://www.stackops.org/
[04:22] <toddf> seriously, I'm plunking around in vsphere, written my own scripts to manage qemu instances, used ibm's aix virtualization interface (vios), and then tried proxmox .. I don't know why anybody uses vmware when there is proxmox .. I understand completely that arpnetworks has developed a custom infrastructure to efficiently maange hosts, there is no point in retooling for e.g. proxmox when it just keeps working .. though if ...
[04:22] <toddf> ... arpnetworks were starting today I'd imagine proxmox would give it a jumpstart it didn't have in the past ;-)
[04:23] <up_the_irons> oh for sure
[04:24] <toddf> hmm, proxmox is geared towards enterprize'ish management of clusters of vm servers .. brief glance at stackops suggests it is geared towards vps providers such as yourself .. no clue on the details differing the two beyond that so far ;-)
[04:24] <up_the_irons> when i sold our first kvm/qemu based VPS back in early 2009, hardly any of this stuff existed
[04:25] <up_the_irons> yeah i think i agree with that assessment
[04:25] <plett> toddf: Looking at that proxmox config file, I much prefer that plain text format over libvirt's XML
[04:28] * up_the_irons nods
[04:28] <toddf> not sure what stackops community edition vs enterprise is all about when you can download the enterprise iso, I see a feature list checklist that puts enterprise in the desirable category for anybody serious about their vms, don't see anywhere it costs *shrug*
[04:35] <toddf> quote from proxmox forum:
[04:35] <toddf> libvirt does not solve any problem we have, so we dont use it.
[04:35] <toddf> Its just an additional level of overhead so far.
[04:38] <up_the_irons> interesting
[04:40] <toddf> oh and you can install proxmox inside a non kvm capable host (including a vps) .. it just won't use hardware acceleration if it can't load either the amd or intel linux modules that does the kvm bits
[04:41] <toddf> now if your vps'en permit virtualized kvm .. demo away!
[04:41] <toddf> (the free version of esxi that my client has loaded doesn't do this, perhaps newer versions do)
[04:57] <up_the_irons> toddf: hosts >= kvr27 can do kvm within kvm, i believe
[04:57] <up_the_irons> no idea on performance or stability, but i see the feature in syslog.. ;)
[04:58] <toddf> nice
[05:06] <staticsafe> up_the_irons: which hosts have virtio?
[05:06] <up_the_irons> staticsafe: they all do..  do you mean ones compatible with openbsd on boot?  (that would be >= kvr27)
[05:07] <staticsafe> ah, I run FreeBSD, not sure if its enabled
[05:09] <staticsafe> maybe I should use svn instead of portsnap for ports updates
[05:09] <up_the_irons> virtio for disk on FreeBSD is possible with >= kvr27, I believe.  but iirc, not everyone who tried could get it working.  perhaps someone can correct me on this...
[05:10] <up_the_irons> 5am already...  bah.  sleep time...  brachiation and I have a big data center day later.  8 new blade servers for y'all to buy :)
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[13:38] <brycec> been playing with Proxmox a bit and wow, this is pro-grade stuff. Very niec!
[13:38] <brycec> *nice
[13:39] <brycec> My home-spun VM "architecture" built on VirtualBox is finally doomed
[13:47] <toddf> heh
[13:59] <GluffiS> proxmox is nice... clustring is fine as long as you have multicast :D
[14:02] <toddf> have not played with that aspect, good to know
[14:02] <GluffiS> we run it for production
[14:03] <toddf> so have you seen or heard of a htm5 console? I can only find references to java, and references on the forums of no html5 vnc client being up to snuff.. yet a friend of mine swears he is using it
[14:05] <GluffiS> nope...
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[14:05] <GluffiS> i'm not that involved in kvm management :D
[14:06] <toddf> have you deployed conserver + serial consoles on it or heard of them working on that aspect? I know everybody is in love with graphics these days, but nothing beats a serial console for debugging an os (especially but not limited to openbsd)
[14:06] <GluffiS> nope, we stick to vnc consoles...
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[15:03] <brycec> I'm really, really hating the Java console...
[15:03] <brycec> Mostly the fact that I have to install Java
[15:04] <brycec> and that IcedTea isn't too keen on working
[15:04] <brycec> but when it does work, it works pretty well
[15:04] <brycec> I haven't managed to get straight VNC to work [yet]
[15:07] <brycec> My only other grievance so far is how often it pops up reminding me I don't have a support contract/license.
[15:07] <brycec> Looking forward to figuring out clustering
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[15:44] <m0unds> buddy of mine redeployed the mail architecture for a state's MLS mail system to proxmox clusters
[15:45] <m0unds> they handle millions of mail messages a month for that system, and it was all previously run on a mix of ancient (10+ yr) servers with different OS' and configs and stuff
[15:46] <brycec> (Secret to a working Java console: start the VM first)
[15:46] <brycec> nice
[16:15] <mercutio> is proxmox openvz?
[16:15] <m0unds> supports both vz and kvm iirc
[16:15] * m0unds hasn't ever used it
[16:15] <m0unds> http://www.proxmox.com/proxmox-ve/features
[16:16] <brycec> yes mercutio it supports both kvm and vz
[16:16] <mercutio> ahh
[16:16] <brycec> (Taking a "right tool for the right job" approach)
[16:16] <mercutio> i wonder if kvm supports vga passthrough properly yet
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[16:17] <mercutio> that said, xen seems to be still under quite active development and does work
[16:17] <m0unds> xen still makes me cringe a little, but only because of past experiences with it
[16:17] <mercutio> i've found xen stable
[16:18] <m0unds> it might be now
[16:18] <m0unds> certainly wasn't 5+ years ago
[16:18] <mercutio> it's cluster/distributed file systems, that i've found a nightmare
[16:18] <mercutio> i've been using it for like 4 years i think
[16:20] <mercutio> now kvm and xen are both sharing qemu code
[16:20] <mercutio> which is a step in the right direction
[16:20] <brycec> I have another VPS hosted in Xen and it works well (minus the disk IO starvation)
[16:20] <mercutio> disk i/o starvation is based on storage system alone pretty much
[16:20] <brycec> and oversaturation with guests
[16:20] <m0unds> yep
[16:21] <mercutio> yeah they're probably using sata disks and piling too many people on
[16:21] <mercutio> people get these strange ideas are 48gb of ram+ with 6 hard-disk raid 10
[16:21] <mercutio> which 90 guests or something
[16:21] <m0unds> yeah
[16:21] <brycec> almost certainly - chunkhost is not known for being a "good" VPS provider
[16:21] <mercutio> so the disk tends to be the bottleneck, followed by cpu
[16:21] <m0unds> best, most consistent disk access i've seen on a VM was a provider using virtuozzo w/15krpm SAS disks
[16:22] <mercutio> never heard of it
[16:22] <brycec> mm nice
[16:22] <m0unds> extremely predictable
[16:22] <mercutio> depends on raid controller a bit too
[16:22] <mercutio> any idea how many 15k disks?
[16:22] <m0unds> no idea, never asked - it's a client's box, i just manage services on it for them
[16:23] <mercutio> oh yip
[16:23] <m0unds> could probably open a ticket and ask
[16:23] <mercutio> 15k 146gb disks aren't that expensive
[16:23] <mercutio> but 146gb isn't very big
[16:24] <mercutio> i think arp's doing 8xsata
[16:24] <mercutio> but without lots of ram / guests
[16:25] <m0unds> we use 300GB savvio disks in our application servers here
[16:25] <m0unds> 15krpm
[16:25] <mercutio> 2.5"?
[16:25] <mercutio> or 3.5"?
[16:25] <m0unds> 2.5
[16:25] <m0unds> 1u app servers
[16:25] <mercutio> expensive :)
[16:25] <m0unds> yep
[16:25] <mercutio> 15k vs 10k makes a huge diff at 2.5" :(
[16:25] <m0unds> yeah
[16:25] <m0unds> they're great disks
[16:25] <mercutio> heh
[16:26] <mercutio> 10k 2.5" disks aren't that bad
[16:26] <mercutio> advantage of 2.5" disks is you can have a lot of them, and they use less power
[16:26] <m0unds> bulk storage (recorded video in this instance) is handled by 2TB seagate constellation disks
[16:26] <mercutio> es2?
[16:26] <m0unds> RAID6, LSI controllers w/BBUs
[16:26] <m0unds> yeah
[16:26] <mercutio> not bad
[16:26] <mercutio> not great :)
[16:26] <mercutio> but they'd be a hell of a lot cheaper than those 2.5" drives
[16:27] <m0unds> doesn't need to be great for bulk storage of video
[16:27] <mercutio> haha just checking ebay
[16:27] <mercutio> i thought some drives were good value, but they were 36gb
[16:27] <m0unds> we max out 120mbit/sec per storage node - recording subsystem writes out to disk every 30 seconds
[16:28] <mercutio> yeah even on ebay you're looking at $319 it looks like
[16:28] <mercutio> per drive
[16:28] <mercutio> megabit?
[16:28] <m0unds> we've got 600 ES.2's in service
[16:28] <mercutio> wow
[16:28] <mercutio> do you have many fail?
[16:28] <mercutio> what are rebuilds like?
[16:28] <m0unds> rebuilds are slllow
[16:28] <m0unds> hahaha
[16:29] <m0unds> i'll check our docs, i think we've had like 12 or 13 fail in 18 mos
[16:29] <mercutio> i dunno why ebay keeps linking me servers that have 3.5" drives
[16:29] <m0unds> 18 mos since deployment completion, so they're all new
[16:29] <m0unds> hahaha
[16:29] <mercutio> not bad
[16:29] <mercutio> ebay's searching is terrible
[16:29] <m0unds> yeah, it's awful
[16:30] <m0unds> i think it takes some annoying liberties with queries, grouping similar stuff
[16:30] <m0unds> like you ask it for something specific, and it tries to provide results similar to what you asked but it does it badly
[16:30] <m0unds> hahaha
[16:30] <mercutio> even 146gb 2.5" 15k is expensive
[16:31] <mercutio> but 2.5" 146gb is cheap
[16:32] <mercutio> http://www.ebay.com/itm/HP-STORAGEWORKS-MSA70-MODULAR-SMART-ARRAY-418800-B21-25-x-300GB-10k-2-5-RAILS-/121154578296?pt=US_NAS_Disk_Arrays&hash=item1c35602778
[16:32] <mercutio> that has 25 300gb 10k disks :)
[16:32] <mercutio> i wonder if it presents as jbod
[16:33] <mercutio> of course second hand
[16:34] <mercutio> looks like jbod
[16:34] <mercutio> cos they're suggesting p800 etc
[16:35] <mercutio> still in raid 10 with one hot spare, that's only 3.6tb of space
[16:37] <mercutio> and raid50 with sets of 3 disk raid5 is only 4.8tb
[16:37] <mercutio> this is why people go for cheap sata drives for bulk storage
[16:38] <m0unds> yep
[16:46] <m0unds> arshadchowdhury.com/1485-what-happens-when-you-stand-for-2-years/ trying this at work, haha
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