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dzup has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection) hazardous: up_the_irons: any chance you got specials running on dedis? possible to swap out 1x1tb for 2x500gb or something? toddf: hazardous: he is rather accomodating on the vps side, so if you propose something logistically possible and economically sensible, you've got the openings of a good negotiation ;-)
'logistically possible' is likely going to equate to his hw inventory availability ;-) hazardous: dedicated side, not vps though
it's for a project i'm working on that will involve a significant amount of cpu pounding
that i'm not sure vps hosts are typically ok with toddf: well what I mean to say is, I've made some even steven deals on the vps side (less mem more disk, etc) and it was accepted. I've not experienced the dedicated side, but since you're dealing with the same person, I'm willing to bet if you propose something that's sensible, he'll listen ;-)
vps hosts are not overprovisioned either in cpu nor in disk
so you can check, but the only time I've been aware of someone causing issues to other vps systems is if they are hitting the disk io 'unfairly' (there is not a 'provisioning technique' for disk io that is in use, newer qemu might be able to limit io speed, but I kindof like the responsiveness as it is ..)
I say 'newer qemu' since kvm and qemu are basically one and the same these days hazardous: heh
yeah i am not going to be pounding disk much
but i am using it as a development/staging system
and code will occasionally run amok, memory leak, cpu leak
and i feel that i would potentially be a bad neighbour to vm's so :< toddf: I have used my vps originally as a development platform that eventually turned production, its cpu is faster than anything I have here in the office, and it does a crashdump and reboot faster than anything I own too
if you are swapping to death, probably; short of that likely not, but hey, if your budget permits bare metal, you could install e.g. proxmox.com and have your own vps instances for annoying each other inside your big shell up_the_irons: hazardous: i generally don't have specials on the dedis because they are already a really good deal for the specs. check competition.
hazardous: are you preferring 2x500gb for mirroring or something? hazardous: up_the_irons: yeah i just want sw raid1
i refuse to run single disk as a personal issue
disk space is not a matter to me, but just at least having something resembling redundancy up_the_irons: hazardous: what plan are you looking at? hazardous: lowest one, but that's already overkill for my needs
wouldn't be using anywhere near the bw cap too up_the_irons: hazardous: so where do you want the price point to be? hazardous: what can you do for about a hundredish up_the_irons: hazardous: the thing about disks is, look at the price difference between a 500GB and 1TB disk, it's like $10. so sometimes people want to pay less for smaller disk but they don't realize the cost is nearly identical. hazardous: ah ***: medum_ has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection) hazardous: hm, what are the chances you can offer vps with dedicated cores (don't know if qemu does that) up_the_irons: hazardous: we don't offer that; a vps is a shared service. you want dedicated cores, get a dedicated server :) ***: tabthorpe has joined #arpnetworks mercutio: wow, that is a lot of bw on dedicated servers.
weird it costs $129 for 8 gb server, and $149 got 16gb server, but $10 for 8gb ram ***: phrac has joined #arpnetworks up_the_irons: Sold one dedicated server, and another coming in shortly. Dang, good day for dedicateds phrac: ;) mercutio: heh i wouldn't mind a dedicated server, but i'm nowhere naer to being able to afford hazardous: phrac you seem familiar but i can't place it
oh. synirc phrac: hazardous: I don't remember what channel I was on in synirc
ahh
newznab probably ***: medum has joined #arpnetworks
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Ehtyar has joined #arpnetworks medum: hmm. upgraded to openbsd 5.2 and network is broken. em0: watchdog timeout -- resetting
anyone seen that before? mercutio: yip
how frequent? medum: shows up again every couple minutes and won't respond to anything mercutio: oh
it's nothing liek that often for me
i did uhjh omsething
is that 32 bit or 64bit?
clock: unknown CMOS layout
em0: watchdog timeout -- resetting
em0: watchdog timeout -- resetting
i've had it twice since bootup
12:35PM up 50 days, 18:05, 2 users, load averages: 0.27, 0.14, 0.10
hmm i have 5.2-current medum: amd64. 5.1 worked great no issues. can't even ping 5.2 mercutio: oh
it doesn't work at all
does em0 show the ip? medum: yea mercutio: try a kernel from 5.3's beta thingy?
see if it behaves medum: well booting 5.2 bsd.rd i did an ftp install mercutio: ftp://ftp.openbsd.org/pub/OpenBSD/snapshots/amd64/bsd
hmm medum: finished and rebooted, now its dead mercutio: and that worked at that point toddf: 'disable mpbios' is required unless you're on kvr27 or higher mercutio: hmm
i've been usign custom kernels
so yeh mpbios may be disabled for me anyway medum: toddf: i'll give that a try mercutio: mpbios at bios0 function 0x0 not configured
does that mean it's disabled? toddf: yes mercutio: when's 5.3 out?
oh may
that's ages away toddf: traditionally 1st part of may. look at the previous release schedule, its mostly like clockwork, except the official release tends to coincide with a few days after cdrom's have arrived in the prepurchased peoples hands..
depends, if you're familiar with the release cycle, you'll note things are in 5.3-beta now, find bugs now or wait till 5.4 to have them fixed in an official release basically mercutio: at work using 5.0 on something
actually 4.8 on something too i think
i've only had this em0 issue
i think i reduced my timeout
before reset
but i assume it's a qemu issue rather than openbsd medum: works with mpbios disabled, thanks mercutio: todd: do you know anything about the watchdog thing?
it may be that it doesn't realyl ened to reset it toddf: worst case 'ifconfig em0 down up' but if the nic works, ignore random warnings like that. if it effects your performance, worry .. ;-) mercutio: heh
it used to
i really should diff to see what i did toddf: in other news, current and 5.3 will come with virtio support mercutio: it used to happen more often that it does now
toddf: yah, that's why was wondering about 5.3 :)
my 5.2-current has virtio but i'm on old node toddf: kvr27 and higher have stable virtio nic/disk/memory baloon support mercutio: new nodes work with smp too toddf: sd0 at scsibus2 targ 0 lun 0: <VirtIO, Block Device, > SCSI3 0/direct fixed
sd0: 81920MB, 512 bytes/sector, 167772160 sectors mercutio: toddf: oh you're on new node? toddf: virtio0 at pci0 dev 3 function 0 "Qumranet Virtio Network" rev 0x00: Virtio Network Device
vio0 at virtio0: address 52:54:00:ee:e1:22
virtio0: apic 1 int 11
virtio1 at pci0 dev 4 function 0 "Qumranet Virtio Storage" rev 0x00: Virtio Block Device
vioblk0 at virtio1
virtio1: apic 1 int 11
oh yeah, have one vps on kvr27 and another on kvr28, when I'm not busy and have some other things taken care of, I'll see if I can move my other vps'en to newer kvr systems *grin*
time to skoot, kids and evening routine are ready to steal my keyboard! up_the_irons: my gawd, 12 servers in 3U! -- http://www.supermicro.com/products/system/3U/5037/SYS-5037MC-H12TRF.cfm
they even support 4x disks (2.5") per server with an add-on tray mercutio: up_the_irons: ssd's :)
up_the_irons: dell have had something like that for years
oh i think it was 4 servers in 2u
12 in 3u is pretty crazy
the problem is that you can't really feed enough power
it's all very nice having high density servers, but you need enough power/cooling for the rack still up_the_irons: mercutio: yeah, but where i'm located i can already have 60A per cabinet mercutio: how many amps do those servers use?
60a seems pretty high, but that's 110v i imagine :)
so that's like less than 30 amp 240v up_the_irons: yeah 60a at 120v mercutio: i imagien you'll still hit your limit :)
is that 30amps * 2 ?
cos the other thing is if you want to use all 60 amps you lose redundant power i imagine? up_the_irons: yeah for sure you'll hit the limit, but you can get even more power per rack if you need
no, i have 60A per rack *with* redundant power mercutio: oh cool up_the_irons: (well, one of the racks is 60A, not all of 'em) mercutio: so 60a * 2
how do prices compare to 1u boxes?
it looks like that is sata not sas
i wonder what enterprise 2.5" hard-disks are around that are sata not sas
ebay seems to think $5000 for chassis with 8 motherboards
then need cpu, ram, hard-disk
http://www.ebay.com/itm/DELL-POWEREDGE-C6100-XS23-TY3-SERVER-8x-L5520-QUAD-CORE-CPUS-96GB-MEM-4x-TRAYS-/170971630149?_trksid=p2047675.m2109&_trkparms=aid%3D555003%26algo%3DPW.CAT%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D142%26meid%3D5714756017857345721%26pid%3D100010%26prg%3D1076%26rk%3D4%26sd%3D320946716752%26
erk long
http://tinyurl.com/abaszwe up_the_irons: it supports ss mercutio: versus c6100 is much cheaper :) up_the_irons: *sas mercutio: get one of those c6100 and sell cheap dedicated maybe? :) up_the_irons: that's used though, right? mercutio: yeh
it's older too
e5520 cpus
err it's actually l5520
a little better
still l5520 is fast enough for a lot of things up_the_irons: for that particular one, it's only 4x nodes right?
where would the other 4x go?? ;)
is it a different tray type if u want 8x? I know jack about dell... mercutio: i dunno
it depends how much you pay for rack space
the dell is older one only does 4 servers
but it's only 2u
it's still twice the density of 1u servers
and takes cheaper 3.5" hard-disks
it seems to only come with 4 disk trays though
and one power supply up_the_irons: yeah noticed the one ps
all in all, not a bad deal mercutio: depends what requirements are
like that is probably simlar speed to e3-1240v2
but way older up_the_irons: yeah
and 1100w ps mercutio: 8 real cores versus 4 real cores ***: dzup has joined #arpnetworks mercutio: but like half the performance per core up_the_irons: while with 1620w ps with supermicro e3's, you get 8x servers mercutio: yeah but psu doesn't mean everything
it doesn't really tell you how much power it uses up_the_irons: but it tells u the max power mercutio: and supermicro is like way more expensive
it's not even max power really up_the_irons: not if you compare new vs. new mercutio: often servers only max out at half their psu wattage
hmm up_the_irons: but nevertheless, it obviously will never be more than 1620 W mercutio: well yes
that's actually quite low
e3 cpus are pretty low power
i suppose i was just thinking about how hazardous was saying that he wanted cheap dedicated
and there's a fair amount of people who want cheap dedicated rather than newest greatest dedicated
but i suppose you also have to weigh up cost of power etc
and rack space up_the_irons: yeah, the thing is, no matter how much the unit is on ebay, if it sucks a lot of power, you can never really go "cheap" dedicated mercutio: and chance of problems up_the_irons: so it is easier to go cheap dedicated on really power efficient stuff mercutio: yeah small investment great long term cost versus large investment low long term cost up_the_irons: cuz you can pack it in the rack mercutio: i imagine your power / rack space isn't amazingly cheap up_the_irons: nope mercutio: probably cheaper in places like kansas up_the_irons: maybe i should make an "ARP Lite(tm)" service and put boxes in a shitty data center, and just sell 'em real cheap mercutio: heh
you could do semi-dedicated up_the_irons: there are quite a few shitty ones really close to my own mercutio: with vt-d hardware passthrough for ethernet/disks
err can't do passthrough for disks
it needs to be controller
so maybe just dedicated disk up_the_irons: yeah cuz you can do /dev/sda on vps #1, /dev/sdb on vps #2, etc... mercutio: like if you can do 4x2.5" in a blade
you could do dedicated ssd per semi-dedicated
and have 4 of them
although what if disk fails :) up_the_irons: yeah disk failure is always the catch
but the customer could just order 2 disks mercutio: yeah but then you need to be able to support 8x2.5" in a blade :)
wasn't it 4x2.5" * 12 servers? up_the_irons: well yeah or you just can't put 4x vps in the box
yeah mercutio: true
like $80/month 2 servers per box
2 hard-disks each up_the_irons: yeah
80*2 = 160 per blade mercutio: dedicated ethernet up_the_irons: $1920 per chassis mercutio: you can probably stick a cheap pci-e dual port adapter if want internal network as well up_the_irons: not a bad scenario mercutio: how much are blades? up_the_irons: the blades come with the chassis, but u still need to add RAM and CPU mercutio: oh real up_the_irons: i think it was like $5500 for the chassis mercutio: so that ebay price was terrible that i found?
oh that was more like ebay price :)
so it's still like $1000 to $1200 for a server
mostly just saving on rack space ***: mikeputnam has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
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ChanServ sets mode: +o up_the_irons up_the_irons: mercutio: so you're saying the e3 cores are 8x real cores, but half the performance of the 4x l5540 cores?
wait the e3 only has 4 real cores mercutio: up_the_irons: err e3 is 4 real cores
l5520 is 8 real cores
they're similar performance
err
2xl5520 i mean
which is that it had
that's according to cpumark ***: twobithacker has joined #arpnetworks mercutio: not real testing
i've never actualyl used a l5520 up_the_irons: ah ok mercutio: i just explored things a bit before. shipping is a bitch from the US
actually
4711 passmark l5520 single cpu
9457 passmark 1240v2
7625 passmark dual e5520
i think e and l 5520 are same performance
passmark doesn't list dual l5520
8103 passmark 1230v1
so really it's more similar to the 1230 up_the_irons: e and l are the same, yeah
just different voltage mercutio: not in all cpus
oh maybe in all cpus up_the_irons: oh? thought l5520 is the low voltage version of e5520 mercutio: it's the i5 low power versions that aren't the same
but they have suffix rather than prefix up_the_irons: yeah for the xeon's i believe "e" and "l" are the same, just diff voltage mercutio: 5520 is a lot lower power than 5420 from memory
they also do extended page table support
e3-1240v2 will be better power consumption though
from passmark dual opteron 4234 loosk good too
well mostly for being similar speed to e3 but cheap ***: [Derek] has quit IRC (Read error: Operation timed out) up_the_irons: yeah i think i have a couple 4200 cpu's around here mercutio: what's power usage like? up_the_irons: can't find anything to do with them since i used the 6200's in the newer VM hosts and I like the performance mercutio: ahh up_the_irons: i'll put the 4200's in the new backup box, yeah... mercutio: when trying to research 4234 found stuff about 6200 up_the_irons: you can't beat the core count mercutio: it's always the way
people always benchmark/discuss/talk about the higher end cpus up_the_irons: i mean for the price and cores, it's really nice. lots of cores is great for virtualization. mercutio: and ignore the new lower cost or lower power ones up_the_irons: yeah exactly mercutio: likes there's hardly any discussion about the low power i5s up_the_irons: u need to find the sweet spot mercutio: they reduce performance
but power matters too
i was mostly interested in whether it'd be quieter
that's even harder to determine though
intel are weird atm
there's e5-2687w and e5-2690 ... e5-2687w is faster
but not by a lot... it's also slightly cheaper
but both are real expensive
good if you pay per cpu or such though i suppose
for licensing ***: [Derek] has joined #arpnetworks
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[Derek] has joined #arpnetworks up_the_irons: yeah the higher end intels just blow the bank ***: dzup has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
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dj_goku has joined #arpnetworks amdprophet: up_the_irons: have you been training for any races? (running)
I just started running, thinking about maybe training for a 10k or something mnathani: up_the_irons: was I your first dedicated server sale?
up_the_irons: also have you considered offering SSD drives on the ARP Metal Dedicated servers? If so what price point would they be at? ***: HighJinx has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
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Ehtyar has quit IRC (Quit: Nice Scotty, now beam my clothes up too!) up_the_irons: amdprophet: no races. i messed up my lower back a year ago and haven't really been able to run since :( (but it's getting better) amdprophet: darn :( up_the_irons: mnathani: no, the first sale was around last june or so
mnathani: have not considered ssd's yet
amdprophet: last race i did was a 500 yard sprint and i came in at 90 seconds amdprophet: damn, that's pretty impressive Webhostbudd: oh nice, you finally rolled out the dedi page hazardous: rawr up_the_irons: Webhostbudd: it's been there for months ;) brycec: --- Day changed Tue Oct 23 2012
04:43 <@up_the_irons> Finally official: https://www.arpnetworks.com/dedicated
months! ^ up_the_irons: :) brycec: <-- Master of logs
I'm more impressed by the 4-5 months of unofficial dedicated boxes up_the_irons: really? why? :) brycec: Mostly that anyone knew about it without there being a page up (unless there was a page up... unofficially ;p) Webhostbudd: lmao up_the_irons: brycec: there wasn't, but email works great for specs and quotes ;) hazardous: oh yeah i forgot to share this, here is a sales response i got from another host about ipv6: http://i.imgur.com/U1C5S.png
enjoy the laugh brycec: I... uh... wha? -: brycec falls over brycec: CPU down to 3C...
er, wrong channel up_the_irons: LOL brycec: (unless you care about the fun of running a laptop inside a refrigerator)
2C!
damnit my focus-follows-mouse is being very inaccuarte mike-burns: Your mouse is distracted? brycec: No... But with this latest awesome update, the focus seems to get stuck somewhere along the way about 50% of the time toddf: just go cwm and be done with it ;-)