#arpnetworks 2013-02-06,Wed

I just got a 2nd static IP but I need to keep DHCP on my router. I either need a second router to act as a switch or an actual switch to split the IPs. Can anyone advise me of any particular models that would work well?

[10:10]

milki

as a consumer, i think they all do the same thing -.-

[10:13]

Eleven_Cool

Well one switch I found says its specially configured for streaming while most others don't, some have priority and some don't
And although a router could work, I've read that an actual switch is better and cheaper.

[10:14]

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[10:28]

CaZe

What sort of network is it for?

[10:39]

Eleven_Cool

One server is a web server and another server is for a streaming server. Also, there is a DHCP pool for internal devices (one device NEEDS DHCP, so shutting it off and requireing static IPs from all devices isn't an option)

[10:44]

milki

router doesnt do static dhcp leases?
hm
or dmz?

[10:45]

Eleven_Cool

The router is doing both a DHCP (99 devices) and also 2 static
Although I'd like to keep at least one server on the DHCP router with a static, the other can optionally be moved to the new switch
server2 is the streaming server that I don't mind optionally moving to the switch, and may actually be better if the switch has priority so I can set it to top priority

[10:48]

Would this one work even with my streaming server? It doesn't do priority, should I try to find one that does? http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16833122128&Tpk=GS105

[11:05]

CaZe

You could also consider a VLAN.

[11:08]

Eleven_Cool

CaZe: VLAN looks cool, ty
The only priority switches I can find are those for TV streaming, console gaming, etc.. and not really targeted towards internet streaming. I like the idea of giving my streaming server some kind of priority to help keep the web server from slowing it down too much, but I can't seem to find that option on business grade switches

[11:21]

brycec

May I suggest moving all of your serving needs to an ARP VPS? ;p
(^obligatory on-topic message)

[11:24]

Eleven_Cool

I just bought some pretty awesome servers so I've gotta respectfully decline that offer :)

[11:26]

OK I went with this one: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16833122111
And it does VLAN by default, so I can just put all the servers right on the switch for some speed ups. yay, ty everyone who helped

[11:34]

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CaZe

I have that.
I didn't know it did VLANing.

[11:50]

brycec

I don't see that it does tagging, but I'm sure it supports VLANs. (I haven't seen a switch in the last 10 years that didn't at least support, a.k.a. pass vlan-tagged packets through)

[11:53]

Eleven_Cool

It does do tagging too. You can search the comments on newegg
I saw that it does VLAN when looking at the product details on the Netgear product page

[12:04]

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up_the_irons

nixbag: dang, the 8 drives you helped me package up are already at HGST (i dropped 'em off at fedex yesterday)

[12:25]

Eleven_Cool

Actually it indeed does NOT support VLAN

I canceled it and went with this one instead: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16833122345

[12:26]

mercutio

you need the T in the model i think eleven
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16833122381
like that
dude that second one is 100 megabit
get the gs108t
i was thinking of getting gs108t myself, because i wanted vlans and bonding
and it's the cheapest switch that'll do those two, but they're so overpriced here

[12:27]

toddf

whatever you do do _not_ get the gs108e .. can only admin it from a windows binary. the others have a different ui that is easy to admin from a unix web browser.

[12:33]

mercutio

ho hmm

[12:33]

toddf

(speaking from personal experience)

[12:33]

mercutio

gs108t is safe?
or you think it's safe?

[12:33]

toddf

what I know is this

[12:33]

mercutio

i hate netgear, really i do
but there aren't many cheap choices

[12:33]

toddf

GS108E is what I have and it does not permit web only admin

[12:34]

mercutio

err i want telnet admin :)

[12:34]

toddf

GS108?? that has POE is like $20 more and does permit web admin
if you want telnet admin you're looking at the wrong vendor

[12:34]

mercutio

gs108t doesn't have poe, maybe a diff one
heh
i suppose web would do, but doesn't even edimax have telnet? :/
original version had telnet and HTTP admin access. Since 3.x firmware, just web administration. Actually, there’s 2 web servers in firmware: one in the Netgear firmware, and another in the Broadcom “loader” firmware fail-safe mode.
it seems older gs108t firmware has telnet

[12:34]

toddf

ah nice

[12:36]

mercutio

from memory gs108t had a newer hw version with lower power use
that may need newer firmware
like gs108t also doesn't need fan which is requirement of a switch for me

[12:36]

toddf

wonder if newer firmware for my GS108E would give me telnet and/or non windows binary for admin

[12:36]

mercutio

you need older firmware probably
oh for web
you may be able to do neewr

[12:37]

toddf

I'll have to put it on my worklist and get to it later but 'duh try upgrading firmware if current firmware doesnt do what you want' makes perfect sense ;-)
random shout out for how my worklist gets queued btw: https://github.com/toddfries/xtomato

[12:38]

mercutio

firmware dl doesn't work for me
"something went wrong"
hmm
maybe i should try something like that
do you use a timer/?

[12:38]

toddf

the program is a shellscript that drives xmessage with a timeout

[12:41]

mercutio

oh cool.

[12:41]

toddf

it can say 'work' 'break' etc

[12:41]

mercutio

The creator and others encourage a low-tech approach using a mechanical timer, paper and pencil. The physical act of winding up the timer confirms the user's determination to start the task; ticking externalises desire to complete the task; ringing announces a break. Flow and focus become associated with these physical stimuli

[12:41]

toddf

and if you give it your worklist (documented in the README) it will tell you what to work on

[12:41]

mercutio

yeh i need to get linux going first :/

[12:41]

Eleven_Cool

thank you mercutio, I just saw that it did VLAN and got 5 stars, not that it was only 100, I'm so glad you pointed that out!

[12:42]

toddf

maybe if you use another os cygwin can run shellcode and xmessage but anyway. I do have a sound associated with ending of the task

[12:42]

mercutio

cygwin is gross
i just use putty mostly
i tried doing remote X it wasn't working out so well on windows
i do have a plan anyway
vt-d :/
and swap to other computer and do pass trhough of video card to windows

[12:42]

toddf

you may wish to checkout proxmox.com (free iso download, more functional than free vmware by a longshot)
just setup a kvm system

[12:43]

mercutio

nah
does kvm do vt-d?
i was thinking of xen
but i'm easy

[12:43]

toddf

kvm is virtualization like vmware and xen

[12:44]

Eleven_Cool

Putty is awesome :)

[12:44]

mercutio

yeh
but i need vt-d hardware passthrough

[12:44]

toddf

kvm is the 'real hardware simulator' that arpnetworks is using

[12:44]

mercutio

so windows can get my video card
and then linux can get hd4000
actually
that's still going to be a pita
gah!

[12:44]

Eleven_Cool

I like Parallels best, but they aren't free

[12:45]

toddf

http://forum.proxmox.com/archive/index.php/t-6120.html
I'd rather let windows relegate itself to running binary blobs as vendors have their head stuck in the sand. for everything else there is freedom.

[12:45]

mercutio

i'd rather not use weird tools if necessary

[12:45]

toddf

so personally I have no need to do such uglies.

[12:45]

mercutio

there's no freedom for ati toddf :/
that is my main issue
hd 7000 isn't supported properly with open source video drivers

[12:46]

toddf

vga1 at pci1 dev 5 function 0 "ATI Radeon XPRESS 200M" rev 0x00

[12:46]

mercutio

yeh that's old
old stuff works
and better than nvidia old stuff

[12:46]

toddf

I get to use 'dated' hardware that is cheaper and well supported. fits my budget and computing style!

[12:46]

mercutio

and i915 etc were terrible
i was a bit slow to pcikup on intel hd working best with open soruce drivers these days
heh
i used radeon 9000 for ages
that worked in openbsd even

[12:46]

toddf

my wife uses this vga1 at pci0 dev 2 function 0 "Intel 82915GM Video" rev 0x04

[12:47]

mercutio

you're doing dual head on one computer?

[12:47]

toddf

openbsd is typically not the limiting factor for open source drivers, it is X

[12:48]

mercutio

toddf: that video will be terrible
hmm, i had issues with vmware and openbsd video drivers

[12:48]

nixbag

up_the_irons: yeah there were a bunch of hitachi ones.

[12:48]

mercutio

it worked better on linux

[12:48]

toddf

I have one laptop my wife has a netbook, why would I share a computer with my wife in that way? ewww... ;-)

[12:48]

nixbag

up_the_irons: but those were all individually boxed.

[12:48]

mercutio

heh
well one said pci0 one said pci1
oh they both said vga1
duh
netbooks are slow

[12:48]

toddf

mercutio: why is video such a big deal? I need it to display xterms and the occasional webpage with text. graphics? well, nice, but .. fancy graphics are for eyecandy youngsters .. *grin*

[12:49]

mercutio

so 915 isn't only issue
toddf: i have 2560x1440 resolution
that'll drag down older video cards with simple things like scrolling

[12:49]

up_the_irons

nixbag: yeah, Hitachi = HGST

[12:49]

toddf

1920x1080 but thats only because thats what this monitor is limiting me to

[12:49]

mercutio

toddf: i915 struggles ate 1280x10245
1280x1024

[12:50]

nixbag

up_the_irons: thats so fast.

[12:50]

up_the_irons

nixbag: i know, srsly

[12:50]

toddf

mercutio: we are obviously looking for two different standards of 'working'

[12:50]

mercutio

i dunno how it fares with netbooks
toddf: fluid scrolling is a huge thing to me :)
most onboard used to have huge issues with scrolling
because they have to read from memory / write to memory

[12:50]

toddf

sure if I go back to my 300mhz system with a trident pci vga card, I notice scrolling speeds, or if I dare sign into x on my sparc tadpole laptops, but .. what I am staring it now is 'very snappy indeed' until I try to load e.g. celestia or stellarium

[12:51]

mercutio

and memory throughput is shared.
err memory bandwidth
heh
oh god i hated how slow text mode was on sparcs
well console i mean

[12:51]

toddf

X != console text

[12:52]

mercutio

it was slightly better with terminals
but like as soon as you had a big window and scrolled th ewhole thing
was insanely slow

[12:52]

toddf

OpenBSD specifically went to progress bars instead of listing every file as i twas extracting for the sparc install speed ;-)

[12:52]

mercutio

haha
i installed openbsd on sparc
this is where i found console slow :/
ssh key generation was slow too

[12:53]

toddf

second only to vax

[12:53]

mercutio

xterm has some hacks to fix scrolling speed on slow computesr i think

[12:53]

toddf

jumpscroll

[12:53]

mercutio

yeah it worked quite well
back when i used to use openbsd with many xterms my main problem was running out of ptys
on older hardware
i think you can open like 40 xterms

[12:54]

toddf

pty problems are a thing of the past (if you 'cd /dev; sh ./MAKEDEV pty{1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,...}

[12:55]

mercutio

this was like 10 years ago

[12:55]

toddf

I can now open over 200

[12:55]

mercutio

i'm glad to hear that's improved now

[12:55]

toddf

but one must bump login.conf limits otherwise its like 120

[12:55]

mercutio

it was definitely not as high as 120
i used to do ps auxw | grep xterm | wc -l

[12:55]

toddf

X itself has a hardcoded FD limit .. I think it got bumped to 512 recently

[12:55]

up_the_irons

i still have openbsd 2.6 on a microSPARC laptop

[12:55]

mercutio

curiously

[12:56]

up_the_irons

i used to use it for IRC :)

[12:56]

mercutio

i also played with time xterm -e pwd

[12:56]

toddf

up_the_irons: time to update?

[12:56]

mercutio

i think it was -e
and ocmpared to linux
and openbsd actually executed pwd in xterm faster than linux

[12:56]

up_the_irons

toddf: no need, it runs IRC to my satisfaction
fvwm2 rocks on it

[12:56]

mercutio

up_the_irons: you still use it? :)
i started on 2.<something> i think
whatever was current in late 2000 i think
i tried solaris, openbsd, freebsd, netbsd, and debian
netbsd used the least ram
solaris had the most confusing isntall
and most memory use
went with freebsd in the end
then it corrupted my disks
and found openbsd as a desktop works surprisingly well
once you get over things like not doing X by default etc
it's actually quite simple to setup
especially if you know what window manager you want to use, what applications you want to use, and nwo there are lots of packages.
and back then linux emulation let you run things like opera too
bah now i want to see if openbsd will do hd7000 video

[12:57]

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[13:01]

mercutio

actually it'd probably spin fan at full speed
toddf: do you know if openbsd runs under kvm for video ok?

[13:03]

up_the_irons

mercutio: it's in my closet, haven't powered it on in a while

[13:04]

mercutio

my laptop has windows heh
no real reason
it'll actually be ok for hardware support probably cos it's so old

[13:05]

toddf

mercutio: what video would you be doing on openbsd under kvm?
mercutio: kvm itself can present vmware or cirrus or generic vga iirc, I'm sure you could get an X thing going if you wanted to

[13:06]

mercutio

hmm
oh it can pressent vmware

[13:06]

toddf

I'd personally find 'vncserver' a better option if I were wanting graphics from a virtualized OpenBSD system

[13:06]

mercutio

maybe vmware isn't so bad if you don't want to have non fullscreen
vnc was terrible :)

[13:06]

toddf

what would you be doing with graphics on a virtualized openbsd system again?

[13:07]

mercutio

i want non windows desktop sometimes :)

[13:07]

toddf

just use openbsd natively and use rdesktop in fullscreen

[13:08]

mercutio

yeh but natively openbsd won't be able to run on radeon hd7850 i think
without running fan at full speed

[13:08]

toddf

modern rdesktop can even export filesystems and clipboard and you can even hear sound over rdesktop connections on your openbsd powered speakers

[13:08]

mercutio

i need good video card for agmes on windows :)
but i'm not completely against rebooting
esp if reboots are fast

[13:08]

toddf

ah so you are a gamer. 'nuff said. no hope for me to help you. ;-)

[13:08]

mercutio

i only play starcraft :/
meh

[13:09]

toddf

just play konquest in openbsd and get some logic and mental exercise from the experience ;-)

[13:09]

mercutio

never heard of it
i used to play kpat

[13:10]

toddf

http://games.kde.org/game.php?game=konquest

[13:10]

mercutio

oh
i think i've seen non kde version of this game
like dos version it hink
was it called galactic conquest or osmeting
can't find what it's based on

[13:10]

toddf

This the KDE version of Gnu-Lactic Konquest

[13:13]

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[15:26]

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up_the_irons

i wonder if a $5 vps with 128MB RAM would be useful...

[16:50]

jbergstroem

up_the_irons: secondary mx perhaps?
dns

[16:51]

up_the_irons

yeah
i was thinking dns

[16:51]

jbergstroem

wouldn't run ubuntu on it, perhaps :)
if you even get to upstart/systemd that's an achievement

[16:51]

up_the_irons

haha

[16:52]

toddf

up_the_irons: i would have started with that instead of the $10 .. seriously, it would be useful for those shopping around to test arpnetworks for hw compatibility of their favorite os
i regularly use 64mb qemu instances at my office for random testing

[16:53]

up_the_irons

wow, that's small

[16:54]

toddf

when host os has 768mb and it is a desktop...
someday i will up the host

[16:56]

milki

someday

[16:57]

toddf

seriously though, i think people might in one narrow view see a $5 vps and look for cheapest everywhere and realize arpnetworks is an awesome deal for that

[17:07]

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[17:09]

toddf

one more way to get people in, and once in, get hooked easily...

[17:09]

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[17:19]

mercutio

ubuntu struggles with 256mb
but you can make it work
my main concern about $5 vps is people come just to ddos others or something
but i imagine if it's on a seperate node or such
or rate limited it shouldn't be a big issue
the other issue is low ram can swap all the time

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[17:31]

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brycec

up_the_irons: I would be interested in a $5/mo VPS.
In fact, I'd probably break apart my VPS into its services and tasks

[17:54]

up_the_irons

i c

[17:54]

brycec

I prefer to have service-dedicated VM's
But paying $15-$30/mo for a single VM/VPS, I end up piling a bunch of things into it.
(and then if I tank something, or if the host machine tanks, a whole bunch of services end up affected)
fwiw I build low-RAM VMs all the time at work. I hate wasting RAM. e.g. Why go with 128M if 96M will do...
My concern with a $5 VPS is that, at that price, the host machine ends up losing money - too many of its guests are the $5. (I don't think I'm explaining that clearly, I'm sorry). But then, I don't know what it costs to run ARP.
The other risk, of course, is that users wil downgrade their VPS... but I wouldn't expect any sizable portion of users to do so.
Anyways...
up_the_irons: if you introduce a $5, you can count me as a day-1 customer

[17:54]

up_the_irons

brycec: roger

[18:00]

brycec

*a $5 VPS with 128M RAM and 5GB disk

[18:00]

up_the_irons

yeah that was what i was thinking

[18:01]

brycec

I wonder if the cost of an ipv4 address becomes too much? Maybe the $5 VPS is ipv6-only, or +$1 for ipv4
Welp,
brycec punches the clock and heads home to the missus

[18:01]

up_the_irons

up_the_irons waves

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