whoa, lots of scrollback You're welcome! (not that I had anything to do with it..) yeah - only 4pm here but it's over the top for some folks it's been the new year for ages over 13 hours :/ UTC is the only relevant time zone :P you mean gmt? UTC isn't utc just a reference for other time zones UTC was used beginning in the mid-twentieth century but became the official standard of world time on January 1, 1972. oh i didn't know it being an official standard root@hellhound ~ # date -u Tue Jan 1 00:04:55 UTC 2013 :) # date -u Tue Jan 1 00:06:02 UTC 2013 your click is behind oh actually... i think they're about the same i think my irc client is ahead all my servers are synced via NTP most of mine arc it seems the box i irc on isn't though Tue Jan 1 00:07:35 UTC 2013 my irc client +37 seconds to you Tue Jan 1 00:07:43 UTC 2013 running ntp, so that should be close same 2 seconds diff between you two from my perspective can't seem to run ntp on any box that has to be PCI compliant though there of course can be latency between irc servers/connections so instead I run ntpdate once a day. dumb solution mercutio: yes indeed RandalSchwartz: wtf yeah - they keep flagging ntpd on freebsd as "bad" so the only solution is to not run it openntpd? or that huge bloated one? they just flat the open tcp port flag oh so i've had to turn that off idiots does ntp use tcp? UDP oh i thought it may have a fallback like dns but they apparently tweak it, and it comes back, so they say "you're bad" idiots PCI compliance is a joke welcome to politics :) but my $client has to pass, or not take credit cards from $bank heh some of the stuff makes sense but there's a huge pile of WTFery mixed in does anyone use the calculator key on keyboards? I mean, yeah, not storing CVVs or unencrypted PANs, all good. what's "The calculator key" the picture of a calculator I have none of those it's on most modern keyboards I have a very modern keyboard macbook pro 17-inch miune is where print screen would usually be :( late 2011 or so oh, laptops don't count sure they o they don't even have a number pad! sure they do it's just buried in the middle of the KB my media controls are like that .. https://discussions.apple.com/thread/3332788?start=0&tstart=0 O_o There are keyboards attached to computers that aren't laptops? what? you mean all in one? like mac ? imac and amiga Hah, I dunno. I've only used laptops and servers for the past five or 10 years. is macbook pro the g5 one? really? g5? i have a laptop, i use it a few times a year g5 cpu my macbook pro is an i7 oh that's powerbook ... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MacBook_Pro oh they never actually did it i7s in laptops are usually i5s renamed as i7s no and i5s i3s real i7 the previous one I had was an i5 and I feel the difference Intel Core i7-2620M @ 2.70GHz Average CPU Mark Description: Socket: BGA1023, Clockspeed: 2.7 GHz, Turbo Speed: 3.4 GHz, No of Cores: 2 (2 logical cores per physical), Max TDP: 35 W dualcore i7? :) well that's cos i5 is i3 I have 8 threads really wow yes which cpu? this was early 2011 cpu ... 2.4 GHz (2760QM) quad-core Intel Core i7 Sandy Bridge with 6 MB on-chip L3 cache yes oh cool "MacBookPro8,3" yeh it sucks how intel do that oh i7 normally has 8mb cache or more i think actually - it says I have 2.5 ghz so it's even better than that oh heh http://ark.intel.com/products/65719/ and yes 8 MB L3 desktop i7 is 3.5 ghz and 8mb cache oh you have 8mb cache cool this is according to system update do you have hd4000 video? my laptop is damn slow AMD Radeon HD 6770M and Intel HD Graphics 3000 core2duo 2.4 ghz or something with 4gb ram and 8gb ram? and the retina screen thingy? no - looks like 1024MB for the first, and 512 for the second oh no retina screen this wasn't from 2012 :) i7 with 1.5gb ram? ahh so it's 1680x1050? just 1920x1200 oh cool that's better than my laptop i only have 1680x1050 :( i like how apple are pushign resolutions up at least it has dedicated video card :) the new macs look ok err mac laptops oh but they only take 8gb ram :( Optional 16 GB RAM configuration available at time of purchase only oh they do take more yeah I have mine baxed out you jhust have to order it at time maxxed out at 8 16gb is standard for reasonably heavy users now if buying new I've never gotten up to all of that. but laptops often only have two slots I guess if you're running vm's or something yeh that's cos you're using a laptop 8gb sticks are cheap for desktops now you can have 32gig for prob USD $200? it makes a big diff to everything really. well, 16gb does compared to 6gb that's why i upgraded from ddr2 to ddr3 but that means you have to replace cpu... motherboard.. etc to too i wonder how much these mac laptops cost $3500 ouch very price appropriate, given hardware features no more "mac penalty" desktops are a lot cheaper :) sure, and have fewer things more things you mean? Different purposes. more expandability bigger monitors, bigger ssds etc but if you price it out, feature for feature, mac hardware is very competitive mike: depends if being used as a desktop too yeh you can't get good screens on normal laptops at least i haven't seen one recently the trouble is that people tend to compare cheap crappy desktops against macs macbook air is not too expensive and yeah, so cheap crappy desktops are cheaper. duh. cheap crappy? i wonder how much my desktop is worth it'd probably be $2000 or something to replace every bit probably slightly more than that oh wow it's easy to forget how much computers cost when you add things over time like i got a good video card, so i can do high res... which it does but good video cards are still expensive and even then i'm only sitting at 70 fps It's still slightly surprising to me how many different things people use computers for. I use mine to heat my room facebook? google Like, how I'd never do someting that involves high res. i realised the toher day, i never use my laptop without the internet like if i didn't have internet for some reason, i'd think of my laptop as being useless mike: reading pdfs? I use my phone for PDFs. is your phone high res? Doubtful. i have to scroll like mad on my phone to read pdfs. It's just more convenient on the metro. my tablet is slightly better metro? Tunnelbana. train? Sure. what are trains like for internet these days yay, 1.5G of RAM makes for a happy VPS heh my vps went from 256 to 768mb but i'd prob be fine with 256 still I went from 768 to 1.5 but I'm running a redis server, a mysql server, and a bunch of tmux The subway offers no wifi here. The only other train I take is the airport shuttle, and that does offer free wifi. whereas my desktop swapped heavily on 6gb all of those like moar RAM that said, i don't use chrome on my vps lefty: tmux isn't memory hungry heh, I get cranky if my desktop has any less than 16 these days but yeah the other two could be Web browsers take crazy amounts of RAM. I blame animated GIFs. tmux consistently is the highest ram consumer on my box i'm actually only using 8.4 gig on my desktop atm Is the tmux RAM measurement being reported properly? That is, is it instead reporting all the RAM of its child processes? one chrome window on it's own is using 450mb mike-burns: entirely possible mike: it doens't report child processes normally? at least not under openbsd or linux I didn't look into it that deeply, but the box was usually a few hundred megs into swap most of the time 14600 root 2 0 668K 1332K sleep kqread 0:00 0.00% tmux PID USERNAME PRI NICE SIZE RES STATE WAIT TIME CPU COMMAND that doesn't seem memory hungry to me 13146 _mysql 2 0 40M 15M idle select 0:30 0.00% mysqld mysql takes up a bit more before I rebooted, it was reporting ~300M that's light mysql usage though wow it's probably leaking then mysql? friends don't let friends use mysql. actually i'm using tmux on my irc times four or so users and it's been running ages ben 16396 0.1 0.3 4572 2440 ? Ss 2012 7:58 tmux -2 that's linux instead that time apparently, I'm not your friend yet. :) 2.4 mb resident? I'm extremely pleased with the trend of ditching MySQL for Postgres. i wonder how long it's been running if you insist on mysql compatible, use mariadb but otherwise, postgresql, yes in either case, please move away from the oracle frankenserver i was thinking the other day, mysql is terribly slow surely their query optimisation could be a lot faster on modern computers? err could lead to much faster performance like current performance compared to ideal performance mysql sucks on modern hardware i imagine there's lots of complications of such but like say you have 16gb ram well, it sucked on old hardware too, it's just now modern hardware tends to have lots of cores and RAM and 2gb database mariadb is drop-in-completely-replacement for mysql monty promises such it doesn't really matter if you use 8gb of ram and do things to reduce cpu bottlenecking etc and it's better/stronger/faster so absolutely no reason to run mysql. evar. randal: mysql comes bundled with operating systems though? apt-get is hard to type? Which OS bundles mysql? does ubntu have maria now? mike: ubuntu? Odd. ... https://downloads.mariadb.org/mariadb/repositories/ ubuntu, centos, openbsd, etc all have mysql support easily serious, google please don't make me google for you Is it useful for browsing the Web and, I dunno, whatever else Ubuntu users do? it doesn't have my ubuntu version which version of ubuntu? hardy to precise yeah i use quantal yeah, be weird. get source then no mariadb in my repos for 12.04 on arm lefty: you have to get it from external repository nor x86 but that's why people use mysql well, I still have to get mysql from an external repo when it doesn't matter it's easier to use mysql at least on our centos boxes when it does matter then people are like "why should you use mariadb" there was mariadb and another one that i was thinking about migrating to Postgres. nah my mysql usage at home is just a toy database i've used postgresql in the past at work, though, that's a different story... we do some heavy mysql scariness but lots of people are more familiar with mysql slaves of slaves of slaves lefty: with redis? in fact, the only alerts I've got for this on-call was mysql replication breaking couchbase 2.0 looks pretty damn cool mercutio: we use a lot of redis, too, and a lot of mongo why does mysql insisit on using disk for queries anyway materialized views hmm wonder what one i looked at percona I may be deploying it for $client i thik that was it looking at wikipedia so is mariadb a lot faster than mysql in common usage patterns? monty claims so but like 50% faster? I. Don't. Know. ahh looks like most of the improvments only happen with 16+ cpu cores and still 20% from worst to best heh, that'd help our workload the biggest problem with mysql replication is that slaves are entirely singlethreaded so we can have giant boxes with lots of cores etc, and they don't get used at all and replication still lags I can't imagine maria is any better in that respect, so we'll probably stick with mysql yeh i'm sure it'd help heavy heavy workloads we have mysql boxes that are 16core hmm, i didn't find anything about replication can you do replication int he app? the yes, but nobody wants to touch it it's very, very legacy i was mostly wanting stupid web applications to go faster :/ it's slowly being replaced by modern systems that use better storage technologies though by "better" I'm using it in the loosest sense of the word yeh mongodb didn't get production-ready until 2.2 anything before that was fucked hard fwiw in these benchmarks percona seems better than mariadb at 2, 8, 16 cores weirdly the difference is less at 32 cores then percona is way way faster at 64 core 4200 versus 2600 tps neat heh you must have a lot of data we generate a lot of billing data a while back i read about memcached not scaling and the funny thing is that the billing group always says "oh, we'll only need a couple of gig of RAM", then they fire of a few million subscriptions and wonder why redis fell over off, too due to memory being way worse with random reads than linear i think you're meant to use low latency memory if you want random queries anything, really I mean, I can't think of many workloads that consist of sequentially reading large amounts of data into RAM, then reading it right back out again you don't know my clients. :) oh i think it was the facebook discussion I can see reading a lot of data, then accessing it randomly lefty: blogs? i also read at one point that l3 cache isn't a lot faster than memory but has lower latency.. i assume cos cache is sram it's like when memory went to sdram the peformance improvement wasn't that great because the cpus couldn't make that good use for the burst memory speed although that changed over time curiously i was reading just now that facebook got better performance from shifting from tcp/ip to udp/ip. i wonder how much better performance could be with infiniband infiniband is gimicky from what i heard although definitely better than gige what's gimicky about it? it's significantly lower latency than 10 gigabit ethernet it's also cheaper especially if you want to go over 10 gigabit throughput then it's got things like rdma to reduce overhead whereas infiniband guarantees in order packet delivery well, i've heard 10gige performs better than 20gig infinibamd however, i don't know the network layourt infiniband native? or doing ethernet emulation?