#arpnetworks 2012-12-30,Sun

RandalSchwartz

yes :)
simpler that way

phlux

i have no idea what i'm doing, but it works (FreeBSD)

dougbb

phlux, 8 or 9?

http://paste.ewnix.net/index.php?show=72

phlux

[14:48]

dougbb

do you mind pasting what's in your rc.conf related to ipv6?

[14:48]

phlux

[14:49]

dougbb

also, they just set up my vps, so I'm not ruling out a provisioning problem ... what's strange is that I can ping my gateway from outside, just not from my host
yeah, same
phlux, thanks

[14:49]

phlux

Aye

[14:50]

dougbb

this is sounding more and more like a provisioning issue
I suppose I can try ipv6_enable to see if it makes a difference

[14:50]

RandalSchwartz

yeah - without ipv6_enable, it's all for nought

[14:51]

dougbb

Randal, that's true in 8, not true any more in 9

[14:52]

RandalSchwartz

[14:52]

dougbb

I wrote part of that code before I left the project :)

[14:52]

RandalSchwartz

so v6 is enabled by default in 9? nice.

[14:53]

dougbb

in fact ipv6_enable generates a warning at boot time, but it's harmless
well you have to have an ifconfig_IF_ipv6 line in rc.conf
I actually wrote the code to make SLAAC automatic if it's available, but I got shot down on that one
no difference ... still can't ping my gateway
I think it's a provisioning issue
what's the response time from support generally? I know it's a holiday weekend and all, but that's why I have time to work on this atm :)

[14:53]

RandalSchwartz

typical reponse time is 24-48 hours
unless it's about a box on fire... then it's much shorter.

[14:58]

dougbb

heh

[14:59]

RandalSchwartz

yeah - ARP is not about quick customer service... but about fair pricing for great service.
I have five boxes hosted here. awesome service for that

[14:59]

dougbb

yeah, I'm good with that ... once I get my networking in place I don't need a lot of hand holding :)
and the price is definitely attractive

[15:01]

RandalSchwartz

also, this irc channel has a lot of support
since most of us have been here for a while

[15:02]

dougbb

nice
I'm all about the IRC :)

[15:03]

mercutio

i think historicallyi've found it's less than 24 hours
i imagine a few hours from now you'll get a response

[15:10]

dougbb

excellent

[15:11]

mercutio

i think it's every evening there's a run through of email

[15:11]

dougbb

... I'm just antsy to get going, and I don't want to put in a bunch of work if they have to reinstall :)

[15:11]

mercutio

heh i first came in here cos i was wondering how long provisioning took i think ?
i forgot to leave :/
actually i think i did leave for a while

[15:12]

dougbb

heh

[15:12]

mercutio

hmm why did someone recommend ovh to asr33 for latency to canada?

RandalSchwartz

yeah - it's basically "if you can wait until the end of the day, you'll be better off"

mercutio

ovh has terrible routing

staticsafe

mercutio: OVH have a DC in Quebec now, their v4 routing is fine
v6 yea its terrible

mercutio

static: it's not fine for ipv4

staticsafe

it is

mercutio

try google

staticsafe

...

mercutio

it's like 80 msec to google
from canada
and some of their routing is kind of round about

staticsafe

im in Toronto, i have a OVH Canadian server, 25ms to it

mercutio

is toronto near wehre they host?
i have 8 msec ping to vps in same city as me on adsl

staticsafe

no not really

mercutio

ahh maybe it's not too bad for your provider then

staticsafe

its in Quebec which is a different province

mercutio

so about 1000km away?

RandalSchwartz

quebec - they speak french!

mercutio

canada is ages apart east to west
mercutio says as a non canadian

staticsafe

apparently 510km according to google maps

[15:16]

mercutio

is that all?
you should have ~8 msec latency then
for the distance
and then your normal hext hop latency

[15:16]

staticsafe

1 sec

mercutio

Quebec, Canada and Montreal, QC, Canada.

staticsafe

er lemme paste that

mercutio

maybe i need to be more speicif :)
oh hangon
wtf am i doing
it's montreal to toronto
isn't it

staticsafe

Beauharnois, QuĂ©bec, Canada
thats the city they are in

[15:18]

mercutio

h i see 511k
but it's basically like montreal but cheaper?
it probably routes via new york though

[15:18]

staticsafe

mercutio: http://pastie.org/pastes/5599606/text?key=exrkpolahsf47hu2o8e8a
nope
they peer at TOR-IX

[15:18]

mercutio

so 18msec to travel 510km?
it's probably 570km or more
as it probably goes via montreal

[15:19]

staticsafe

yes mtl is their montreal POP

[15:19]

mercutio

anyway
that said
26 msec is fine for vip
voip
what's your ping like to 8.8.8.8 static?

[15:19]

staticsafe

mercutio: ~34ms

[15:21]

mercutio

staticsafe: from ovh?

[15:21]

staticsafe

no from home
one sec
rtt min/avg/max/mdev = 16.915/17.476/17.762/0.425 ms - from my ovh box

[15:21]

dougbb

8.8.8.8 is anycast, isn't it?

mercutio

staticsafe

yep

mercutio

its' got better
it was more like 80 or so msec before
hmm

dougbb

mercutio: traceroute will be a better tool if you're using 8.8.8.8 as a reference, the 80 msec might have been an anomaly due to you being bounced to a different anycast node
better still to pick something that isn't anycasted

[15:24]

staticsafe

[15:25]

mercutio

well
it was more i had access to vps
and i was checking it out
and all the dns servers were slow from there
dns recursors
4.2.2.2 was the closest from memory
about 10 msec or so away

[15:25]

staticsafe

i use bind locally for DNS
no forwarders

[15:26]

dougbb

you realize that arp has their own resolvers, right?

[15:26]

mercutio

doug: yeh i realise arp has their own resolvers
we were getting distracted and talking about ovh and canada
arp has good routing :)

[15:27]

dougbb

the google servers are likely to provide, um ... creative answers depending on the question

[15:27]

mercutio

doug: google dns is pretty good i've found
arp's cache is much smaller than google.s

[15:27]

staticsafe

I forward to Google DNS at home via my dnsmasq instance
<3 dnsmasq

[15:31]

mercutio

i use dnsmasq with --all-servers at home
and isp, and google :)

[15:34]

staticsafe

i don't use my ISP's resolvers since they are a) unreliable b) hijack NXDOMAINs

[15:34]

mercutio

eek
sounds fun

[15:35]

staticsafe

ah --all-servers
I use strict-order to force it use Google DNS first
since I also have Level3 resolvers in the list and that can cause bad replies for stuff that uses CDNs

[15:35]

mercutio

really?

[15:36]

staticsafe

aye

[15:36]

mercutio

i've found level 3 fine for cdns
level3 have too small caches though
but then i find 8.8.8.8 only fucks up akamai

[15:36]

staticsafe

mercutio: i was getting directed to google servers with +100ms latency
instead of the local ones

[15:38]

dougbb

opendns is slightly better in regards to cdn optimization

[15:39]

staticsafe

they hijack NXDOMAIN by default though

[15:39]

dougbb

*nod*
any public service like that has its quirks
it's a matter of finding ones you can live with :)
or running your own of course

[15:39]

staticsafe

yea
if google public dns goes to shit, ill just fuck it and run bind or someting

[15:40]

dougbb

probably won't run a local resolver on my vps, I got a very small one to try it out

[15:40]

mercutio

static: wow.
i get the same google servers with 8.8.8.8 as with isp dns
doug: there's a standard for passing the source ip along

[15:44]

staticsafe

:o
mercutio: probably my case was a fluke/anomaly but it was annoying

[15:46]

mercutio

understand
here akamai sucks
often using more distant akamai servers can go faster
but they were routing akamai to hong kong

[15:46]

dougbb

mercutio: it's just a draft, and it's got a lot of problems regarding privacy, etc.

mercutio

(i'm in new zealand)

staticsafe

also since my family uses a lot of youtube i need CDNs to work probably

mercutio

which has similar latency to US ... but much less bandwidth

staticsafe

ouch

mercutio

i prefer anycast cdns anyway
but lots of people are against them
but like cdns that actually cache for lots of users go faster
it's the miss speed that is slow on close akamai servers

staticsafe

My ISP has a local cache for youtube iirc

mercutio

but misses are quite common

dougbb

If you already have dnsmasq running locally, it's unlikely you'll get any real benefit from forwarding to google dns anyway

mercutio

static: most do here too :)
doug: how so?
my average dns time is like 50 msec
where google really helps is on things with short ttls ages away
like undeadly.org

staticsafe

dnsmasq allows me to do stuff like make a badhosts file and blackhole those hosts across the network (read malware domains)

dougbb

because if you forward locally (to your ISP) and/or just let it resolve on its own, your local answers will be cached, and cdn-correct

mercutio

when i do both at once then google results often get ignored

dougbb

yes, dnsmasq is a good tool

mercutio

yeh but everything uses pathetic low ttls now

dougbb

it's the forwarding off-network that's almost certainly a bad idea :)

[15:50]

staticsafe

i use low ttls for my irc networks round-robin but that is necessarily
necessary*
1800 or 300 TTLs mostly

[15:50]

mercutio

google's got a 8.8.8.8 node near here
but the actual lookups are done from hong kong
it's like argh
i think it's hong kong

[15:50]

dougbb

doesn't your ISP have a local resolver?

[15:51]

staticsafe

dougbb: silly question but can dnsmasq behave like bind and not use any forwarders?

[15:51]

mercutio

it's ~25 msec to 8.8.8.8 ~150 msec to where they do the lookup from
isp has local resolver, google has bigger cache
haha
;; Query time: 286 msec
;; Query time: 448 msec
first is isp, second is google

[15:51]

dougbb

mercutio: I think you're dramatically overvaluing the benefit of "bigger cache," vs. the cost of having your cdn locality screwed

[15:52]

mercutio

maybe undeadly.org isn't faster through google
doug: cdns usually don't hit google
cos it queries in parallel
things like cachefly are the fastest cdns
and use anycast :/

[15:52]

dougbb

staticsafe: sorry, I should have been more clear, I meant having a local resolver

[15:53]

mercutio

static.ak.fbcdn.net is an akamai example

[15:53]

staticsafe

dougbb: ah ok
oh yea facebook
my sister uses facebook a lot

[15:53]

mercutio

it gives dual results of japan and hong kong with 8.8.8.8
oh weird, static.ak.fbcdn.net has returned to NZ
yeh, maybe id on't need to use google anymore
facebook got a lot slower for me recently
they made everything use https by default

[15:54]

staticsafe

indeed

mercutio

even when you have https disabled
it's /facebook/ i worry about having my data

staticsafe

i don't have an account heh

mercutio

more than someone in between

dougbb

https is your friend :)

[15:56]

mercutio

which cdn is download.skype.com?
oh it's akamai too
8.8.8.8 is even worse for that
stk airport code.. wonder where that is
it says colorado
but it's ages away

[15:56]

staticsafe

whee need to reboot my raspberry pi for kernel update

[15:57]

mercutio

# lookmeup 46.33.66.41
Rev 1: IE N/A N/A
ie?

[15:57]

staticsafe

ireland

mercutio

israel?
oh

RandalSchwartz

I use 8.8.4.4

mercutio

yes that's ages away

staticsafe

o dnsmasq update

mercutio

i wnat push dns really
static: what's new in it?

[15:59]

staticsafe

mercutio: http://www.thekelleys.org.uk/dnsmasq/CHANGELOG version 2.65

[16:01]

mercutio

Fix nasty regression in 2.64 which completely broke cacheing.
haha
i'm using 2.63
oh, except on ubuntu which is 2.65 already

[16:04]

dougbb

dodged a bullet there

[16:05]

mercutio

seems that way
i should try namebench again

[16:06]

staticsafe

oh wtf
my raspberry pi's FS is erroring out
and root is mounted read only...
fml, seems like i need a new sd card

[16:09]

mercutio

compact flash doesn't move frequently written areas aronud i think
so isn't good for conventional file systems

[16:10]

dougbb

TRIM should help that

[16:11]

mercutio

they don't support trim?

[16:11]

dougbb

don't know much about Pis though, looks interesting, but I don't have time for another project atm

[16:12]

mercutio

i want to try the new arm cpus sometime
the server type ones
arm a15?

[16:12]

staticsafe

gah there goes my dnsmasq box

[16:15]

mercutio

http://postimage.org/image/svhw8a2qr/full/
my dns does end up being a lot faster than the others :)

staticsafe

i need a proper server box at home
any suggestions for builds on a budget? :)

mercutio

only 10% hit rate though
static: get asrock motherboard and do video passthrough

dougbb

staticsafe: I have had very good luck with dell refurbished

mercutio

and virtualisation
merge desktop and server?
if you're cheap you can get amd apu thingys cheap
assuming your psu/case is fine
but the dell sff as dougbb said is good for small size
as long as you don't want lots of hard-disks
i suppose there is non sff too
oh there are also those boxes on ebay

staticsafe

naw i don't need a lot of HDDs
just something i can run debian on :)

[16:22]

RandalSchwartz

debian. not real unix.

[16:22]

dougbb

d'oh

[16:22]

staticsafe

indeed thats what the GNU stands for ;)

[16:23]

RandalSchwartz

indeed

[16:23]

mercutio

what about: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Dell-PowerEdge-1950-III-Gen-3-2x-Xeon-2-66GHz-Dual-Core-4GB-SAS-6i-R-1U-Server-/370716717189?_trksid=p2047675.m1850&_trkparms=aid%3D222002%26algo%3DSIC.FIT%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D11%26meid%3D4532161973723377762%26pid%3D100011%26prg%3D1005%26rk%3D1%26sd%3D121037019535%26
oh god that link is long

RandalSchwartz

that's a long... link.

dougbb

heh

http://tinyurl.com/awpofh8

mercutio

RandalSchwartz

if only there were services that... could shorten links.

staticsafe

ooh nice

mercutio

well i didn't realise it would be so long!

RandalSchwartz

that's what she said

dougbb

I was going to make that joke, but wasn't sure about channel etiquitte :)

[16:25]

RandalSchwartz

here? are you kidding?

[16:26]

mercutio

there may be better ones around
was just giving ideas out pretty much
http://tinyurl.com/a5qze9h
length of 288 characters :)

[16:26]

staticsafe

2U is rather big
i don't have a rack in my apartment :)

mercutio

heh
put in basement/ceiling?

dougbb

staticsafe: you don't?

mercutio

i use i7-3770 at home for my server

staticsafe

i don't indeed

mercutio

with asrock motherboard
which has onboard broadcom ethernet
then have intel ethernet card pci-e in it too

staticsafe

server doesn't have to be a beast, small form-factor is nice too

mercutio

it's nice andquiet

staticsafe

mercutio: how big is your case?

mercutio

microatx

staticsafe

ooh

mercutio

i think

staticsafe

mind linking me to your parts if you can?

mercutio

i'm in nz
uhh