phlux: xmonad over here
qbit: not on the same order (it says on the wht listing "one coupon code per order")
I use a mildly patched DWM on most of my machines.
up_the_irons: any reason you use xmonad over something like i3 or awesome?
hmm i've never tried xmoand
xnomad
err xmonad
it's like not a word.  awesome has this really weird dynamic system.
i don't know you can't freely reorder windows
phlux: i3 looks nice. Especially if their decision of how multiple monitors should work matches what I would want to do
I'm playing around with i3 right now..I'm usually a KDE user.
but I'm having fun
plhux: did you try f4?
I have not.
The default i3 keybindings appear to use "JKL;" for motion instead of "HJKL". Being different to vi is just going to confuse me.
that's weird
i'm sure i've used hl?
I'm just reading http://i3wm.org/docs/userguide.html at the moment, I've not installed it yet
oh what
i3 isa  new one?
i assumed you meant ion3
up_the_irons: k :D
has anyone ever used vio on arpnetworks before for disk?
just for kicks I wanted to try it, and in my experience 'something' can see the disk to load the boot blocks but the bios doesn't map it as an int 0x80 disk so therefore openbsd can't boot. I would be surprised if other os'en could boot as well. just curious though.
toddf: vio?
virtio ..
oh. Linux uses it.
not sure if fbsd does.
openbsd recently had the drivers committed to current. hence me 'testing' for 'kicks'
ahh
neat
that was one of my complaints with obsd on arp, the disk performance.
I'm surprised it got committed, given how much *@openbsd.org hates on virtualization.
jdoe: Know why that is? Myself, not really following OpenBSD that closely, always assumed there were simply a lack of developer resources to put on virtualization support?
jdoe: someone who supports something well is a good argument for it.
they believe (strongly) that it's insecure.
which is true, but not an entirely useful point of view.
if your #1 goal is security, it is useful.
there are any number of assumptions about the security of real hardware that can be misnomers at best on virtual hardware.
I'd be running on physical hardware if I weren't so cost constrained. I setup some basic services at arpnetworks but anything I need to 'secure' like confidential client data and the like is on physical servers under my control.
toddf: right, but they provide other insecure things too.
they have their reworked apache, but provide apache2 in ports, etc.
(because people want to use it)
base -> should be secure; ports -> convenience bits for people who know the pro/con benifits of adding said software
right, I'm just saying that "virtualization is bad" isn't a useful argument against including virtio etc.
stop violently agreeing with each other =]
;-)
lots of openbsd devs use qemu for testing various bits of hackery. ;-)
can I set the logging level on handlers? I have it writing to sys.stderr, but it only shows info messages.
ur. sorry, mischan
I'm giving i3 a shot here
So far so good
I can see mercutio's point of liking being able to see many things at once
toddf: our linux VMs use virtio (and yeah, they don't show in the BIOS), but it still boots.  others have tried to get virtio to work on freebsd, and failed (boot problems)
i want to use virtio  with openbsd sometime too
after experimenting with freebsd hvm on xen, and how much diff the virtio drivers made
i'm even more keen
it seems qemu uses a LOT of cpu when doing emulation
up_the_irons: I'm quite sure it has to do with bios not showing it as a drive
roger
given I've used proxmox to boot openbsd with virtio I'd be willing to bet it has to do with the bios you're using. understandably you can't upgrade because of the need to provide cdrom boot options, but there it is anyway. ;-)
qemu removed cd boot options?
not at all. it is in the process of changing the cmdline stuff, but as of 1.1.1 it still boots off cd no problemo
i thikn qemu upgraded their bios at some point
yes, it didn't provide a way to select the cdrom from a remote vnc session
f1?
f1 does nothing heh
'provide cdrom boot options' .. if you've ever watched your vps boot via vnc you'll note that there is an F* key to hit to select a cdrom for 'rescuing your own os' if necessary
hmm
rather than change boot order
changing boot order would require host os access .. ;-)
or a cp option
hmm
ctrl-alt-2 sets virtio console
which shows nothing
virtio console would be another driver supported by the os, nothing more, like a com port etc
yeh
it would be nice to have :)
but i'm not holding up hopes of openbsd adding it
toddf: actually, the bios on newer qemu (seabios) provides boot options, just not enabled by default (for some genius reason); i figured that out a month or so ago, and recompiled it to show the standard "F12 to choose boot device".  I can, in fact, provide you a beta VM on that machine if you want to test things out.
well, so far the virtio disk is a bust because the bios can't provide proper access, and the virtio network is a bust, presumably because the version tested with openbsd is not what arpnetworks is using, therefore boot hangs in 'vio_wait' while ifconfig fails to return. I'll mention if I ever get it working but no guarantees ;-)
spice would be nice too
that host has been running our cacti server, and a couple other things, for a couple months now.  i think it's pretty stable at this point.  i still gotta give it a couple more reboots to make sure some things start on boot, but that's about it.
if you want to provide new bios with vio disk and vio + em on my latest vps I'd be happy to test.
can i get a beta vm to try out the virtio up_the_irons ?
mercutio: yeah, send me a support ticket with what you want.  you'll need an available IP (or use IPv6)
so specify which IP to assign
oh  yip
toddf: i would have to migrate the VM to the new host (unless there is nothing on it that you need, i'll just reprovision it there, without migration [faster for me])
well i just want to test the virtual i/o :)
mercutio: you'd have to install w/out virtual i/o given the ramdisks don't provide it by default yet
toddf: i understand that
i thought you needed custom kernel
up_the_irons: I've done nothing but a basic re-install. feel free to reprovision to new host ;-)
mercutio: GENERIC as of last month has virtual io by default. disk + net supported.
oh wow
that's really something :)
it's the same vlan right up_the_irons ?
thats why he said you'd need a spare IPv4 IP or just use IPv6
yip
ok
mercutio: yeah same vlan
sent email
mercutio: roger.  don't expect it quick; 1st of the month so billing + accounting takes priority for a few days :)
all good
mercutio: but i'm genuinly interested in more people beta testing it.  only  jpalmer signed up so far (and i have a feeling hasn't really used it ;)
heh
i just want to check out the virtio
cos i have a feeling it's slowing things down
but i don't want to go and stick ubuntu on or soemthing to check
it's pretty smooth slow though
if everything goes well, that server will become the new model (2nd generation) for our vps hosting services.  faster, lower power usage, more ram, cheaper, newer OS, and newer kvm/qemu!
it's not like really fast.. then huge huge delays
heh
have you looked into spice?
btw linux 3.6 just came out
they removed the route cache
not much
and it's meant to be a "long time" version
why is that?
the route cache was often leading to performance degradation
i think it's like less code probably just to not cache routes
and optimise the lookups
or at least more deterministic
http://git.kernel.org/?p=linux/kernel/git/torvalds/linux-2.6.git;a=commitdiff;h=89aef8921bfbac22f00e04f8450f6e447db13e42
mercutio: interesting stuff
i'm actually surprised how many improvements have been going into linux networking code recently
like linux 3.6 is quite far ahead of linux 2.6.18
oh 2.6.18 is 5 years old
err, 6 years old
mercutio: I'm not. linux networking code has always been a game of 'oh it is busted, lets re-write, re-do, re-vamp, re-org, newer is always better'. It's hilarious from a bsd perspective where incremental changes over decades tend to provide solid robust dependable performance ;-)
"I'm not" -> aka surprised
heh
i remember in like linux 2.2 days having a bug where i had to disable timestamps
or lose connectivity to lots of hosts
i think it was 2.2
linux 2.0 was more bsd like in their networking though wasn't it?
but yeah lot sof the linux stuff recently is outside implemented "good ideas"
like tcp small queues, tcp fast open, byte queue limits
mercutio: toddf : yeah i've looked into linux networking code when i started our vps platform, to learn about vlans, bridging, etc...  (everything that goes into making our networking stack hum), and i must say it was pretty shitty.  yet, it still works.  So, if it is shitty and works, is it still shitty?  you be the judge.  i use it b/c it is pragmatic, but, for example, FreeBSD's networking
lnstat -s1 -i1 -c-1 -f rt_cache
code is so much cleaner and makes more sense
apparently that command will show information about the rout ecache
i've only looked at openbsd and linux for any period of time
but i was surprised how hard i found linux's code
after looking at openbsd's code
up_the_irons: I don't argue that it works. it's just 'fun' to see it constantly changing .. hard to have that much change and not have hiccups and burps along the way ;-)
i'm also amused by how much quicker openbsd builds than linux
toddf: for sure
the linux kernel tree is roughly the size of the openbsd base + kernel .. though that might be skewed from the past.
toddf: it's probably bigger now
 # du -sh ./
891M    ./
erk
that was /usr/src/linux
 (cvs)-[src]-# du -sh ./
400M    ./
there's lusca in that second one too for some reason
but anyway
linux is huge
i think freebsd is bigger than openbsd though
comparing source code trees is silly, since ~95% of the linux kernel is drivers.
drivers have never caused problems though
up_the_irons: are you looking for any particular OS for testers?
not that you're wrong, but...
jdoe: i'll take anything
up_the_irons: uh, alright, count me in I guess.
what am I testing? Haha.
jdoe: it's a newer kvm/qemu with newer base OS
jdoe: i'm mainly judging the stability of the VMs and host
jdoe: so i would say, load up what you're familiar with, and use it normally
jdoe: send support@ a request with a free IP address (or IPv6) and which OS you want pre-loaded (or ISO if you wanna do it yourself)
sent.
I'll test too
I love new shit
I'll test... as soon as I have an account/vps :)
up_the_irons: sent
Lefty: cool
bryc3c: it's coming, just a little busy today
up_the_irons: no worries, I'm not pressing. I figured you'd be slammed with new orders, especially last-minute orders (and on top of today being accounting day...)
bryc3c: yup, pretty much :)
also, o/ bryc3c
hey Lefty
(and many others whom I know from #devious )
heh
birds of a feather, and all that
More like "it's all your fault that I'm here, what with how much y'all like ARP Networks and won't shutup"
LOL
well, here's my first attempt with tiling wms: http://www.phluxbox.com/img/i3arp.png
phlux: what font is that in weechat? (i think i asked u that before...) man it looks good
i swear, i gotta upgrade my urxvt so that ttf's look better
up_the_irons: it's either DejaVu Sans Mono or Liberation Mono..I'm not sure which one it's defaulting to in my .Xresources to be completely honest
phlux: nice status bar too
phlux: roger
thanks :)
I don't know why it says "No battery"
I've gotta figure that one out
lol
http://www.phluxbox.com/img/i3_irc_fullscreen_demo.png
weeeeeeeechat!
weechat-android makes me happy, which is why I use it.
I miss irssi color schemes though.
lol
#dicks
Hah.
troll channel haha
those guys are hilarious
suuuuure
Uh huh.
lol
oh well, no way to talk myself out of this one
It's cool, we won't judge.
lol
i'm going to make it a point to hide that channel from now on :P
LOL
phlux: wow, that full screen is sick.  I have 1 pixel borders with xmonad, wonder if I could make 'em go away...
mhoran: there's weechat-android?!
omg
my life is complete
up_the_irons: i had to upgrade to i3 4.3 to get rid of those borders in urxvt
up_the_irons: I think you can do no-border, but... it's nice to see which window is active.
jdoe: i have borders when not in full screen
phlux: interesting
jdoe: yeah, i wanna toggle it
found my problem with the battery
up_the_irons: http://xmonad.org/xmonad-docs/xmonad-contrib/XMonad-Layout-NoBorders.html
might still have my config somewhere.
jdoe: woot
I prefer awesomewm these days
I like how ridiculously configurable xmonad is. I hate how it's ridiculously configurable.... in haskell.
up_the_irons: Yeah, it's fantastic!
And the guy is on #weechat-android, he's super responsive.
I've annoyed him with a lot of bug reports.
Living on the bleeding edge because it fixes some issues I've been having, and also provides weechat SSL (or SSH tunnel) for protecting relay traffic.
ugh
something is missing from my life
haha.
I feel so boring for running irssi :P
hrm... started out w/ ircII, moved to epic, then to irssi.  irc hasn't evolved much over the last ~17 years or so.  =)
no, but there are still things to do.
and worse, some of the useful stuff on their TODO list is half-implemented.
eg /ignore NO_ACT
where you want to ignore activity updates in a channel, but not ignore the actual text.
jdoe: patches accepted? ;)
I patched it :P
weird..acpi won't get a reading above 95% on my battery
well, there you go then :D
odd, i can no longer see the look of disapproval in urxvt in i3 o_O
sounds like fun with fonts :/
I have yet to get my urxvt happy with fonts (in awesome) :(
i thought urxvt's fonts were independent of the de/wm
You'd think... I blame Xresources.
ಠ_ಠjust looks like a couple of squares to me
I use the same .Xresources for both :(
yeah it looks the same here too
oh wait, i bet i know what it is..
If you get it working again, lemme know! I haven't had the time to fight with it...
jlg: i used epic for ages
and thirdeye
ircii looks pretty dull by default with no colour
hey phlux how do you show the bar on the left?
mercutio: buffers.pl
oh
you mean i have to code it myself?
mercutio: nah, it's a script on their website
oh
i wish there was /exec
mercutio: shell.py :P
how do you load the script
i'm not finding /load or /script to work
/perl load /path/to/script
col
cool
that worked
hmm
is there soem easy way to get to windows above 10?
try alt-q through alt-o
nothing
s/alt/meta/
^P/^N work
At least that's what irssi does. Figured weechat might do same
irssi or weechat?
does esape work and not meta?
like in irssi?
but jumping to 12 from 2
weechat is alt+j ##
is annoying
or did they have to change it for no fucking reason other than to be different
oh
alt-j needs 02
to go to 2
it does look nicer with that..
i got it back, bryc3c
haha
phlux: congrats!
bryc3c: git clone http://git.fedorahosted.org/git/lohit.git
i only heard of weechat recently ;)
go into the lohit dir, ./generate.sh; cp kannada/*.ttf ~/.fonts/
that'll get the look of disapproval looking right at least :P
phlux: priorities and all ;)
woah
getting the lod should be top priority
i want the hilighting when someone says your name to be wider
 ۞_۞How does this look?
*beep*
cos at the moment it's inverse video but there's like no width
err no margin
mhoran: that's awesome, i'm gonna have to check it out
so apparently gnome-settings-daemon won't work on gentoo >_<
use gtkconf?
gnome settings daemon is ...
cumbersome
what are you trying to set?
i'd like volume notifications and power management control in i3
up_the_irons: thanks for all the preliminary work
up_the_irons: got myself logged in, had some emails back and forth with our postmaster
phlux: code it up :)
i sometimes wanted power manegement in ion3
tabthorpe: no problem, hope you're having fun and thanks for coordinating with your postmaster
lol postmaster