#arpnetworks 2012-09-12,Wed

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Who	What	When
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up_the_irons	jdoe: my other order was from a comcast IPv6 block hmm.. i should put somewhere that emailing support@arpnetworks.com is just as good as the web interface...	[01:35]
dzup	does vps offer vhmcs or similar?	[01:40]
up_the_irons	dzup: vhmcs? is that a control panel of some sort?	[01:43]
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dzup	yes for reseller hosting up_the_irons, .	[02:14]
up_the_irons	dzup: we don't include any control panels, but you can certainly install one yourself	[02:16]
dzup	thanks	[02:27]
up_the_irons	np	[02:41]
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	up_the_irons drops a pin	[03:21]
LT	LT waits for someone to stand on it	[03:27]
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up_the_irons	up_the_irons grabs some nachos	[04:07]
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qbit	CaZe: just ordered a rancilio silvia also - whadduphoes!	[06:17]
ix34	qbit: good machine. served our office faithfully for over 2 years, 6+ brews per day	[06:18]
qbit	ix34: nice! it's worked pretty well for my mom as well	[06:18]
up_the_irons	bitchen	[06:24]
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up_the_irons	i could kill Upstart right now...	[06:42]
qbit	what's upstart?	[06:43]
up_the_irons	qbit: event-based init system initially designed for Ubuntu but now is in CentOS 6.x, Fedora (i think), etc... meant to replace SysV init system give me runit any day	[06:44]
qbit	oh crazy qbit huggs openbsd	[06:45]
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up_the_irons	up_the_irons huggs qbit	[07:53]
qbit	wew!	[07:53]
mike-burns	That's sweet.	[07:54]
up_the_irons	lol	[07:54]
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ix34	out of curiosity, anyone running openSUSE here?	[09:01]
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CaZe	qbit: Nice.	[09:04]
up_the_irons	ix34: opensuse is very rare, IME like, i can't remember the last time someone requested that ISO to be loaded	[09:04]
CaZe	qbit: Are you roasting your own beans yet?	[09:05]
ix34	ok thanks for the note	[09:05]
qbit	CaZe: picking up the first batch of green this weekend so not quite :)	[09:06]
ix34	up_the_irons: i want to order a new VPS	[09:06]
up_the_irons	ix34: i want to give you one	[09:06]
qbit	not sure what i am gonna do for a roaster tho :P	[09:06]
ix34	do i order via the portal?	[09:06]
qbit	might just do a cast iron pan	[09:06]
CaZe	I'm using a brownie oven.	[09:07]
up_the_irons	ix34: order via regular order form on website, use same email as on current account if you want them linked. if so, then also specify an ip address in "additional comments" that you want assigned to it. you need to already have available IPs, or purchase a /29 ($5)	[09:07]
ix34	up_the_irons: thanks	[09:08]
up_the_irons	ix34: np	[09:09]
CaZe	http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B0051QB35E You have to remove the thermostat though. And then I connect it to a dimmer switch to control the power. I think a quality cast iron pan costs more than that oven.	[09:09]
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ix34	up_the_irons: it is done. meh about running linux, but needed a dev image	[09:17]
qbit	CaZe: nice i have some pans i can use tho .. so they cost less :D temp control will be harder tho	[09:17]
up_the_irons	ix34: tnx!	[09:18]
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CaZe	qbit: Yeah, I don't know how a thermometer would work on an open pan. qbit: Maybe an IR thermometer.	[09:27]
qbit	i always wanted to get one of those :D http://taskwarrior.org/projects/show/taskwarrior <---- <3	[09:28]
CaZe	http://www.harborfreight.com/infrared-thermometer-93984.html That might be adequate. 482 is just high enough to read the end of the roast. http://www.harborfreight.com/non-contact-laser-thermometer-96451.html That one goes all the way up to 968.	[09:29]
qbit	with laser targeting awwyeah	[09:33]
CaZe	The other one has laser too.	[09:34]
qbit	oh	[09:47]
up_the_irons	it should go up to 11 </troll> up_the_irons wanders off	[09:50]
qbit	qbit waves byebye to up_the_irons	[09:56]
ix34	nsd is the best. free PSA from me to you.	[10:04]
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CaZe	Anyone know if it's linked to the build in OpenBSD's snapshots yet?	[10:22]
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ix34	think it's been in and default since 4.9 maybe in 4.9, default in 5.0	[10:22]
CaZe	I know it's been in the tree for awhile, but it hadn't been linked to the build. I'm still waiting for unbound anyway.	[10:24]
mikeputnam	happy to see nginx made it onto the base in time for November 1st s/onto/into/	[10:26]
ix34	agreed, interested to play with that	[10:27]
mikeputnam	http://www.openbsd.org/52.html among other fun stuff. pthreads!	[10:27]
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qbit	CaZe, ix34 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e7pOfJTQ5Dg&feature=player_embedded	[12:35]
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ix34	qbit: that is awesome	[12:46]
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qbit	man.. the mroe i read about the silvia - the more i like it : http://gizmodo.com/5581416/tickling-miss-silvia-mark-frauenfelder-hacks-coffees-god+shot	[13:10]
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arenlor	up_the_irons: You around?	[13:18]
andol	up_the_irons: You could offer a more favorable price on orders coming from an IPv6 address? :-)	[13:23]
milki	oooo	[13:26]
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arenlor	up_the_irons: If you get a chance to, you may wish to add your own comment: https://plus.google.com/+KikiSanford/posts/VNgKzCjWR2K	[15:31]
up_the_irons	ix33: nsd is pretty rad, yeah andol: lol, not a bad idea ;) up_the_irons checks out arenlor's link	[15:45]
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forgotten	hey has arp every been hit with a mango botnet ddos attack?	[15:50]
qbit	whoa hi forgotten o/	[15:52]
forgotten	hey qbit :)	[15:53]
up_the_irons	forgotten: there's a ddos attack named "mango" ? ;)	[15:56]
forgotten	up_the_irons: i think the botnet is called mango and ddos is just ddos but yeah :)	[15:56]
up_the_irons	lol	[15:56]
forgotten	hehe	[15:57]
up_the_irons	not sure what attacks we've been hit with in the past. usually udp-based garbage.	[15:57]
qbit	ima make a botnet called "mangular"	[15:57]
up_the_irons	lol	[15:57]
forgotten	up_the_irons: how did you guys fair against those attacks? the udp garbage. the Mango bots would do something similar, prolly just diff port ranges. qbit: mangulus ! o	[15:58]
qbit	o/	[15:59]
up_the_irons	forgotten: meh, usually takes out a host. doesn't usually spread beyond that. i'm installing two upgrades / changes within the next month or so that should eliminate the host-wide collateral damage. forgotten: qbit : mangular, mangulus +1 +1	[15:59]
forgotten	i have discovered something disturbing, about these botnets. specifically originating from malaysia just thought i'd give u guys a heads up :)	[16:01]
CaZe	Disturbing, indeed.	[16:03]
forgotten	not gonig to waste my time explaining if no one cares :).	[16:04]
CaZe	You already did, the part about originating from Malaysia?	[16:04]
forgotten	ya but they are targeting vps providers as bandwidth testers basically	[16:05]
CaZe	http://www.ubnt.com/edgemax#edge-router-lite CaZe wants	[16:05]
forgotten	if its only 100 bucks why dont u get one?	[16:06]
qbit	500x packets / dollar!	[16:06]
CaZe	They're not selling them yet.	[16:07]
forgotten	resellers?	[16:07]
CaZe	It was just announced today.	[16:07]
qbit	but can it run openbsd?	[16:07]
forgotten	^ careful how u answer this question	[16:08]
CaZe	Probably not out of the box. I don't think anyone knows yet what SoC it uses. MIght have to wait until someone gets ahold of one to know how much work it would take to port OpenBSD.	[16:08]
forgotten	that would be smexy :D	[16:09]
up_the_irons	forgotten: how do they target as bandwidth testers? we don't get many orders from there anyway... ;)	[16:17]
forgotten	to see which providers they can take down, and which they can't overcome their bandwidth. lol and thats good	[16:18]
jdoe	up_the_irons: how are you preventing host-wide collateral damage? Unless you have some sort of quick active-response, null-routing thing :P	[16:19]
forgotten	that would be very very amazing :D	[16:19]
up_the_irons	jdoe: two things: 1) finally get GigE on all host ports, 2) eliminate Linux connection tracking and pass through traffic as more of a "dumb" host. I have #2 working for the most part on a test host. most attacks don't saturate an entire GigE but they will saturate conntrack, no matter how high i set the values	[16:21]
jdoe	that improves things, no doubt, but saturation is saturation ahh	[16:22]
up_the_irons	at least, it seems that way...	[16:22]
jdoe	eesh. If you can't manage a gig in 2012, maybe you should hang up your ./spurs	[16:23]
forgotten	lol	[16:23]
up_the_irons	hah yeah	[16:23]
jdoe	"br0 ch3ck 0u7 my l33t 28.8 b0tn3t"	[16:23]
up_the_irons	LOL hahahaha	[16:23]
forgotten	RISC is good that is a good idea tho with connection tracking do u just build ur iptables rules without --state options for that?	[16:24]
up_the_irons	how many redis users in here? anyone use redistogo?	[16:27]
mhoran	Used redis quite a bit, no redistogo though.	[16:27]
up_the_irons	mhoran: self hosted?	[16:27]
mhoran	I hope this freebsd-security flamewar ends soon. up_the_irons: Yeah.	[16:27]
up_the_irons	forgotten: yeah, --state goes away (although you can keep them in there, but those rules simply don't do anything anymore) and you add a NOTRACK target within PREROUTING chain forgotten: mercutio gave me that tip, and for years people told me conntrack couldn't be disabled!! mhoran: cool	[16:28]
forgotten	up_the_irons: nice :D up_the_irons: do you use syncookies ?	[16:29]
up_the_irons	forgotten: so, also, b/c of no more --state, you need to build additional rules to all hosts you connect to. ala, back in the "stateless" firewall days.	[16:30]
forgotten	up_the_irons: yep yep i drew that much :D	[16:31]
up_the_irons	but that isn't too hard, the hosts should be as "dumb" as possible, with the VMs getting all the majority of network traffic forgotten: not sure about syncookies. w/e the default is i guess.	[16:31]
forgotten	up_the_irons: it's a /etc/sysctl.conf option	[16:33]
jdoe	mhoran: the random shit? I unsubbed over that. kraigu did too.	[16:33]
kraigu	yep. did it stop yet?	[16:33]
up_the_irons	forgotten: yeah i know, just never moved it from the defaults	[16:33]
kraigu	oh I guess not	[16:33]
jdoe	haha.	[16:33]
mhoran	jdoe: Yeah.	[16:33]
kraigu	(I didn't read backscroll)	[16:33]
mhoran	Ridiculous.	[16:33]
kraigu	holy bikeshed. :(	[16:34]
mhoran	Yeah. I don't want to unsub because that's where I get my security announcements from.	[16:34]
kraigu	it used to be where I got mine from :(	[16:34]
forgotten	it would help against syn attacks if it's enabled	[16:35]
up_the_irons	forgotten: syn attacks are not all that popular. just dumb udp or icmp ones forgotten: anything over tcp is problematic b/c of the transmission control. but you can fling udp as fast as your pipe will let you.	[16:38]
kraigu	kind of like bikeshedders on a security mailing list?	[16:39]
jdoe	I think we should paint /dev/random white.	[16:40]
mercutio	up_the_irons: i think syn attacks use raw packets.	[16:40]
kraigu	jdoe: racist!	[16:40]
mhoran	Orange is the best color for a bikeshed.	[16:40]
mercutio	on a lot of newer systems tcp/ip is pretty low in resource utilisation due to offloading	[16:40]
up_the_irons	mercutio: i think syn with raw IP packets can just be dropped, no? isn't SYN only useful with TCP? this is edging on my threshold of knowledge of IP / TCP / UDP packet structure...	[16:41]
jdoe	I'm not sure I understand the question. He's saying that it's not like they're connect()ing or anything, you open a raw socket, construct your own syn packets, and spam.	[16:42]
mercutio	up_the_irons: raw ip packets can have a TCP header.. raw packets just means that the OS sends through whatever you tell it to there's a userspace implementation of tcp/ip around somewhere you can't do things like that without raw packets. windows used to not support raw packets. then it did.	[16:42]
up_the_irons	mercutio: ah ok	[16:42]
jdoe	udp is more popular because raw sockets are a bitch on windows.	[16:42]
mercutio	jdoe: oh?	[16:43]
kraigu	kraigu snickers	[16:43]
mercutio	i knew windows supported it, didn't know it was difficult to implement	[16:43]
kraigu	doesn't steve gibson still rave about it? OMG THOSE IDJITS-style	[16:43]
qbit	<3 redis	[16:43]
jdoe	mercutio: windows neutered raw socket support, and it requires admin privs.	[16:43]
mercutio	jdoe: sweet	[16:44]
up_the_irons	qbit: you use redis too?	[16:44]
kraigu	jdoe: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2001/06/12/security_geek_developing_winxp_raw/ ;)	[16:44]
jdoe	hence why every lindsay_lohan_xxx.exe does udp flooding ;)	[16:44]
arenlor	mercutio: Windows was fixed, doesn't support raw anymore.	[16:44]
jdoe	Gibson is a nutcase.	[16:44]
kraigu	yeeeahh	[16:45]
mercutio	arenlor: i like :)	[16:45]
arenlor	jdoe: Apparentally it's emma_watson.exe now.	[16:45]
mercutio	i don't want linux to lose raw packets.	[16:45]
kraigu	jdoe: like windows users don't run as admin anyway	[16:45]
arenlor	I like to write in every week and tell gibson where he screwed up. Like how their sponsor uses Java, but they keep bashing it.	[16:46]
jdoe	http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/windows/desktop/ms740548%28v=vs.85%29.aspx#Limitations_on_Raw_Sockets	[16:46]
mercutio	heh i've seen people trying to use windwos as a non admin!	[16:46]
arenlor	mercutio: Cute, how are your parents?	[16:47]
kraigu	jdoe: oh pish tosh, quoting "documentation"	[16:47]
mercutio	my father uses linux my mother uses a mac	[16:47]
arenlor	mercutio: Damn, can we trade?	[16:47]
mercutio	haha up_the_irons: ip / tcp / udp packet structure... essentials is just that tcp is on top of ip, udp is on top of ip, ip says source/destination and routes to the destination udp and tcp contain ports etc but ip just has protocol and a checksum oh icmp is over ip too	[16:48]
up_the_irons	well, mostly everything is over ip ;) lots of sonet (sdh) rings use ATM, so that wouldn't be over IP, but that's layer-2 stuff anyway, i think... i think...	[16:56]
mercutio	people often run ip over sonet don't they? anyway sonet/atm are legacy, way more expensive than ethernet and lower bandwidth it's not that tcp/ip is amazing, but it's mass market and tcp has done pretty well to last so well i like it that finally people are starting to look into things like udp-lite removing checksums from sent data etc but what really is neded on the net is larger mtu's and that doesn't seem to be making any progress	[16:58]
up_the_irons	sonet/atm is legacy, yes, but that's WAN for ya. if you want a ring, you have to go sonet	[17:01]
mercutio	frame relay went to shdsl, sonet/atm went to dark fibre dark fibre is on some ways the ultimate way to go wikipedia had an outage a while back through two dark fibre pairs being cut at once but that's just a problem with having pairs near each other	[17:01]
up_the_irons	sure, dark fiber is the way to go if you can afford it	[17:04]
mercutio	fibre can be used for protected services though as long as they don't route the same way well if you can afford sonet you can afford dark fibre	[17:04]
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mercutio	of course dark fibre gets more expensive the further distance you have on it	[17:07]
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forgotten	up_the_irons: word :)	[17:23]
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jdoe	... oh god you don't even want to know what I just saw your ads on.	[18:44]
qbit	lol	[18:45]
up_the_irons	jdoe: lol, wut??? :)	[18:50]
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jdoe	fournier gangrene on /r/wtf apparently arpnetwork is the best hosting if your balls are rotting off. arpnetworks, even	[18:55]
up_the_irons	jdoe: LOL	[19:00]
qbit	hahaha "when my balls are rotting off... i choose arpnetworks!"	[19:01]
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up_the_irons	hahahahaha	[19:17]
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up_the_irons	i do a search for ipv6 problems on lucid and i run across a blog post, i look at the config and am like "hey, those IPs look familiar", then I read the first sentence and it says, "I recently setup a VPS with Arp Networks" w00t i googled and found myself up_the_irons does a happy dance	[19:44]
mercutio	heh ipv6 and problems go together i think	[19:45]
arenlor	I've never had any problems with IPv6 on linux.	[19:49]
mercutio	using autodiscovery?	[19:50]
arenlor	mercutio: No, I do it all by hand. It's only on windows that I have ever had any issue.	[19:50]
mercutio	i was surprised that ipv6 works on my windows considering i don't have ipv6 but ping -6 works apparently there's a relay built into windows or it uses it by default at least	[19:51]
arenlor	mercutio: Yeah, Teredo hasn't ever worked for me.	[19:51]
mercutio	well the relay sends google much furhter away than ipv4	[19:52]
arenlor	It's likely because you bounce through microsoft for Teredo.	[19:52]
mercutio	nah it's somewhere close it's like 20 msec first hop	[19:52]
arenlor	Mind, I can't even get HE's IPv6 working.	[19:53]
mercutio	but google is like 8x the ping i've done he tunnel before i've got a sixxs tunnel too but on windows i didn't do anything	[19:53]
arenlor	Works great in Linux, just never got it to work at all in Windows.	[19:53]
mercutio	oh? i used to have he.net tunnel with windows i just had ym adsl modem forward it along to windows err my adsl modem terminate the tunnel i had it going with a standalone router too	[19:53]
arenlor	It's alright, I'm dyslexic, I have to unscramble everything as is.	[19:54]
mercutio	but i was annoyed that talking between my two ipv6 endpoints gave huge pings so i setup a third tunnel between my two end points and forwarded the traffic in the end i figured he.net tunnel was just too far away	[19:54]
arenlor	It could be	[19:55]
mercutio	closest is fremont which is about 150 msec ping i think sixxs is about 20 msec ping but i found that browsing through ipv6 was slowr give it a few years and it'll get better. i like the idea of host to host communication but while end users dont' have ipv6 that won't dom uch good	[20:00]
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HighJinx	up_the_irons when digi is outta coresite can i have one of them as my own box to rent? hahaha	[22:01]
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Webhostbudd	lol	[22:24]
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toddf	when not doing native v6, I generally would do a tunnel between the v4 gateways of remote sites. especially when the upstream isp of all my sites was the same one (COX)	[22:40]
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up_the_irons	HighJinx: i imagine they would take the equipment with them ;)	[23:11]
HighJinx	iunno they just might forget ;)	[23:11]
up_the_irons	lol wouldn't surprise me	[23:12]
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Webhostbudd	so how are the dedi's working garry? things still rolling out smoothly?	[23:27]
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