***: ryk has joined #arpnetworks
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ryk has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) Webhostbudd: up_the_irons: any suggestions for server grade boards with many pcie lanes?
im looking for something at home that is capable of supporting 3xsas cards and an infiniband card up_the_irons: Webhostbudd: intel or amd? Webhostbudd: most likely intel, but amd might be an option
i was thinking intel because i may end up using it as a hypervisor, and freebsd / illumos have better intel than amd support up_the_irons: Webhostbudd: the intel boards we use are a bit shy on pci-e (we don't need much), but one amd board we're using has a lot: http://www.supermicro.com/aplus/motherboard/opteron6000/sr56x0/h8dgi-f.cfm Webhostbudd: i see
im guessing you are using x<>scm boards?
oh nice up_the_irons: you get 3 16x to start, then 1 8x, and 2 4x
it's pretty loaded Webhostbudd: yea, i was browsing around on supermicro's site trying to find the best deal
it seems as though you need dual socket to get a decent amount of lanes up_the_irons: we only use dual socket, so i wouldn't know about the single sockets Webhostbudd: oh, alright
what about the new dedi's? up_the_irons: oh, well, yeah those are single Webhostbudd: i see
and the kvm hosts are all dual socket? up_the_irons: the dedi's don't have shit for pci-e ;) mercutio: web: impressive home setup :)
20:08:20 Webhostbudd im looking for something at home that is capable of supporting 3xsas cards and an infiniband card ???gneous Webhostbudd: thanks mercutio: i can't say i've heard of anyone else wanting such high spec for home :) up_the_irons: one of the dedi models are blades: http://www.supermicro.com/products/motherboard/xeon/c202_c204/x9scd-f.cfm
1 pci-e :) Webhostbudd: ahh
yea, i was looking at the x9scm-f
I'm just not sure how well it will do up_the_irons: the other is: http://www.supermicro.com/products/motherboard/xeon/c202_c204/x9scl-f.cfm Webhostbudd: my current consumer board just isn't cutting it up_the_irons: so the x9scl-f is pretty shy as well Webhostbudd: up_the_irons: yea, the x9scm has 1 more pcie 4x
2x8 and 2x4 in 8 mechanical
which would work, but i was thinking that might limit bandwidth up_the_irons: so, looks like you may need to go dual socket Webhostbudd: yea, that's how it seems
the problem is the price of a dual socket setup is crazy up_the_irons: why 3x sas with infiniband? i would imagine the infiniband bus would take your disk traffic elsewhere... Webhostbudd: it does up_the_irons: unless that "elsewhere" is what you're building :) Webhostbudd: the infiniband is connected to a switch
connected to my desktop and other machines
local ip routed up_the_irons: got it
so you're building a big storage machine Webhostbudd: mhmm up_the_irons: ?
cool Webhostbudd: my current consumer board has issues handling multiple sas cards though up_the_irons: well yeah, consumer Webhostbudd: and that's where the problems start
i seriously wonder if i need the x8 bandwidth for all cards though up_the_irons: yeah
my 8x raid 10 cards are just 4x Webhostbudd: yea up_the_irons: 8x being 8 drives, not 8x pci-e Webhostbudd: i figure if a dedicate a x8 for the infiniband it should be fine
yea, ill probably end up taking the x9scm because i don't really need the computing power of two processors
an e3-1230v2 should be plenty up_the_irons: that's a nice proc Webhostbudd: yea, it seems like a sweet spot of $/performance mercutio: only problem with those e3s is you can only take 32gb of ram up_the_irons: it's what we use in the dedi's mercutio: and even then you need 8gb sticks Webhostbudd: yes mercutio: if that's not a problem for you you should be sweet Webhostbudd: that is a huge problem
well, my biggest problem i should say mercutio: if that's a problem you end up needing to spend quite a bit more money Webhostbudd: exactly
they actually had a 4x8GB kit for ~$240 up_the_irons: since most of our dedi's are blades with only 4x slots, isn't too big a deal. we'll figure out something else if we get requests for 64GB ram, etc... Webhostbudd: yup mercutio: up_the_irons: well that will lack harddisk bandwidth anyway?
i wouldn't have brought it up if he hadn't brought up 3x sas cards and infiniband
which means a lot of disk badnwidth is likely :) up_the_irons: mercutio: indeed, only 2x drive bays in the blades, so those who want more get the near identical spec 1U instead
or i put in an H
B
A
whuops
...HBA card into the blades mercutio: up_the_irons: tbh, if i wanted a machine with 64gb ram + i'd prob want to jump to 2u up_the_irons: mercutio: yeah mercutio: oh webhost.. one thing about those e3s is that you have to flash rom for lsi controllers using that new fangled ipmi bios command line thingy
if you want to use the other mode thingy
err use disks direclty Webhostbudd: what? mercutio: like if you want to use zfs or md or such
ie software raid Webhostbudd: i have to flash the bios of the mobo? mercutio: nah of the card
if you want direct disks
rather than "card raid" Webhostbudd: my cards are all flashed into it mode mercutio: oh yip Webhostbudd: they are actually ibm m1015's but they are flashed to 9211-8i it mercutio: oh you done it already
yeh Webhostbudd: yea mercutio: well if you do it on the e3 boards you have to do it with ipmi Webhostbudd: interesting
can't do it with freedos? mercutio: it's like DOS
nope Webhostbudd: shit
well, i don't have to worry about that much mercutio: it's like DOS but it isn't
yeh
you can pre flash Webhostbudd: my consumer board can handle one card at a time if nothing else mercutio: it's not too bad once you get the hang of it
but it's a huge wtf if you don't knopw ahead Webhostbudd: yea, i actually had to do that on my uefi board before mercutio: oops
i mean uefi
not ipmi Webhostbudd: mhmm mercutio: oh so you've done it already :) Webhostbudd: that's what i thought mercutio: the board has ipmi too Webhostbudd: yea, ipmi is pretty awesome
but i've been finding that the security is horribly subpar mercutio: what did you think of the eufi command line?
just use ipsec/l2tp? Webhostbudd: it will be on an internel network mercutio: ahh ok Webhostbudd: it's just sad how terrible it is mercutio: of course
it's at home :)
yeah Webhostbudd: it will have a public ipv6 address though =p ***: HighJinx has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) mercutio: i was reading about this ethernet switch vulnberability up_the_irons: ipmi security is horrible, we don't even offer it for our dedi's outside of our new customer vpn: http://support.arpnetworks.com/kb/main/customer-vpn Webhostbudd: granted, i won't allow traffic through the gateway pointed at it mercutio: and it had a bypass password
and it was an industrial one
and it's liek
people never want to update industrial things Webhostbudd: exactly
that's why i prefer dumb switches mercutio: but like who is accountable? Webhostbudd: dunno
are there any dumb level 3 switches?> mercutio: level 3? ***: ryk has joined #arpnetworks up_the_irons: layer 3 Webhostbudd: yea
what i meant mercutio: isn't layer 3 not dumb? up_the_irons: i would say layer 3 implies some sort of management ***: HighJinx has joined #arpnetworks Webhostbudd: well, you could still make it so there isn't a management interface mercutio: you mean serial port only? Webhostbudd: something not tied to the ip network mercutio: you could just disable ssh/telnet? up_the_irons: but then what would be the point? mercutio: well if you stuck all the ports on vlans
then nothing can reach management Webhostbudd: it at least prevents attacks at a layer 2 level
mercutio: that's true mercutio: i've never heard of a vlan escalation in a cisco switch
and in normal use people tend to use vlans on expensive switches
even if just to justify the cost of the switch Webhostbudd: lol
it sucks that going dual socket is going to double the price of the parts i need mercutio: i used to say that hubs were faster than switches
but then i realised it was pointless Webhostbudd: hahaha mercutio: well they do cut-through forwarding normally
so they have lower latency
which matters more at 100 megabit than faster speeds
but like switch latency has got a lot better on cheap swithces
and is often worse on more expensive ones
cos of all the fancy stuff
i waited a little while to see if anyone would come out with a home user cut-through switch for home users
but it seems that is never likely to happen Webhostbudd: what do you mean cut-through/ mercutio: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cut-through_switching
apparently infiniband often uses it
basically you wait for the source/destination to come through
then you start forwarding the packet
rather than wait the whole packet to come then send to the destination Webhostbudd: oh
i see mercutio: so hubs used to operate like that anyway
also intel ethernet cards used to cheat
which made them get higher speeds on network
by reducing interpacket gap i think it was
but now ethernet is pretty stagnant Webhostbudd: yea
i've had the same ethernet stuff for years mercutio: i had lower latency 10 years ago Webhostbudd: not surprising mercutio: like 0.060 msec?
now you're lucky to get under .1 msec Webhostbudd: mhmm
most of the time im sitting at 0.2ms mercutio: what kind of switch? Webhostbudd: netgear gigabit
layer 2 mercutio: the cheap managed one? Webhostbudd: some cheap 5 port deal
nope mercutio: oh
my d-link is pretty good for latency Webhostbudd: i actually have the cheap managed one at home mercutio: the cheap netgear managed are a bit worse
yeh Webhostbudd: yes they are mercutio: linux or windows?
or something else? Webhostbudd: *nix
generally mercutio: solaris?
who says *nix Webhostbudd: got a freebsd storage server mercutio: heh :) Webhostbudd: openindiana kvm box
linux desktops mercutio: ahh Webhostbudd: so the whole spectrum mercutio: openindiana needs tuning to lower latency
i dunno about freebsd Webhostbudd: oh yea mercutio: linux isn't too bad Webhostbudd: the oi box is mostly testing mercutio: e1000g0 is easy to tune Webhostbudd: i just wanted to play around on oi mercutio: oh yip
how are you finding it? Webhostbudd: im not sure i really like it at this point mercutio: heh Webhostbudd: but then again, i never really liked the solaris userland much mercutio: that's kind of how i feel about it
but then i consider alternatives Webhostbudd: the userland is what sucks mercutio: and i'm like "ARGH!"
did you find /usr/gnu/bin/dd? Webhostbudd: the userland drives me nuts mercutio: yeh but you have kvm Webhostbudd: yea, i know about the gnu part mercutio: what do you think of smf? Webhostbudd: ehhh
i think i like systemd more
honestly mercutio: i haven't tried systemd Webhostbudd: i fucking hate xml mercutio: i hate xml too :) Webhostbudd: so smf is always just meh mercutio: i'm using openindiana/xen
and xen isn't even supported any more
but it works Webhostbudd: i really need to try out stormos mercutio: my core2duo can't run kvm on openindiana
and tbh i like xm console Webhostbudd: it might not be as frustrating mercutio: i want to try uhh Webhostbudd: yea, im not a xen guy mercutio: smartos?
is it called Webhostbudd: well, it's really just stripped down illumos mercutio: i like kvm cos it run openbsd Webhostbudd: really? mercutio: but i don't like havikng to use vnc Webhostbudd: oh
use spice mercutio: spice? Webhostbudd: http://spice-space.org/
it's actually pretty nice even though it is only beta quality mercutio: is there a client for windopws? Webhostbudd: yes mercutio: cool
does it work on openindiana? Webhostbudd: i have no idea if you can compile this on the illumos qemu-kvm though mercutio: oh Webhostbudd: because it compiles into the package mercutio: openindiana had another release recently Webhostbudd: did it? mercutio: they're not moving very fast
yeh not much updated
151a6 Webhostbudd: that's a shame mercutio: what version are you on ?
151a? Webhostbudd: a5 mercutio: something?
oh wow
that's quite up to date Webhostbudd: im always up to date with most of my machines mercutio: i think i jumped from a2 to a5
Bump illumos to 13793:10c3656ccf76
don't you love their release notes
like wtf does that mean
Bump KVM driver
Bump NVIDIA driver to 295.71 Webhostbudd: mhmm mercutio: Bump qemu-kvm
well they'd doing stuff with kvm but they don't say what Webhostbudd: woah, they have gcc 4.4.4
i didn't even realize that mercutio: that's not that recent?
but yeh non gcc3 :) Webhostbudd: well, better than gcc3
yea mercutio: you'd think they'd go to 4.6.1 or soemthing Webhostbudd: does the whole system build with 4.4.4 though? mercutio: do you remember when redhat got "told off" for using a cvs compiler?
i don't think so
i think it was egcs
but like now ubuntu is bundling a prerelease compiler
gcc version 4.7.1 20120814 (prerelease) (Ubuntu/Linaro 4.7.1-7ubuntu1)
well in quantal Webhostbudd: im using arch mercutio: i have a arch host too Webhostbudd: pretty much always have a prelease compiler mercutio: i have't shifted to systemd yet
gcc version 4.7.1 20120721 (prerelease) (GCC)
second is arch Webhostbudd: yep mercutio: have you noticed how much faster pacman -Sy is than apt-get update Webhostbudd: pacman blazes
especially in the 3.4 to 3.5 bump mercutio: it's like 5x faster than apt-get at installing things Webhostbudd: when they added the ram caching mercutio: it's one of the things i notice most often about it Webhostbudd: see, i don't run any debian or rpm systems mercutio: i have one problem with arch though Webhostbudd: just arch
what's that? mercutio: oh god openindiana is slow package management
umm
i can't have seperate /usr easily
it's really complicated compared to ubuntu Webhostbudd: separate?
oh mercutio: yeh
like another file system Webhostbudd: they are trying to fix that mercutio: cos i've been experimenting with /usr on btrfs with compression=lzo
on ubuntu it seems to make the system feel faster
and i figure that it's lower risk than data on btrfs :) Webhostbudd: i've pretty much ditched btrfs mercutio: how come? Webhostbudd: kernel panics mercutio: real? Webhostbudd: all sorts of weird shit mercutio: i've never had any panics from it?
i use recent kernels though Webhostbudd: most people haven't mercutio: do you have bad ram? Webhostbudd: i just updated to kernel 3.5.1 and boom mercutio: oh Webhostbudd: panics every time i write a lot of data mercutio: i don't think i used 3.5 much Webhostbudd: err kernel 3.5.3 mercutio: i'm using 3.6.0-rc3 Webhostbudd: so i just ditched it an did ext4 mercutio: and rc4 Webhostbudd: it's so much faster on my ssd than btrfs was mercutio: but before that i was using like 3.3 ?
really? Webhostbudd: oh yea mercutio: i wonder why Webhostbudd: me too
i even had all of the ssd optimizations set up mercutio: i want to figure out how to get compression on my cellphone easiest
linux seems fast even on my slowest ssd Webhostbudd: that sounds like a challenge mercutio: my cellphone only has 512mb internal memory Webhostbudd: well, i got a 256gb m4 for my windows machine and my linux machines on hdd's boot faster mercutio: i managed to compile a kernel for it Webhostbudd: im not even starting much
what kind of phone? mercutio: my windows boots faster than linux
lg p500 Webhostbudd: oh mercutio: but i think that's partially changing video moed ***: CaZe has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection) mercutio: mode Webhostbudd: mercutio: you also don't use systemd =p ***: CaZe` has joined #arpnetworks mercutio: linux has always been slow at changing video mode
oh i'm using ubuntu for desktop
arch on my router ***: CaZe` is now known as CaZe mercutio: i mostly use windows atm though Webhostbudd: same =( mercutio: bootchart is screwed in ubuntu for ages
i don't know how fast it's booting
hmm
maybe i should install arch linux
i like ubuntu for desktop cos all the packages are there Webhostbudd: well, what de or wm do you use?
what packages is arch missing? mercutio: but i hate it for having all this crap everywehre i don't want
notion
umm package it's missing umm
i can't remember
i just remember eeven on my router every now and then it doesn't have something
it doesn't have apache traffic server for instance
it has notion
actually i hardly use anything Webhostbudd: i see mercutio: i mostly just use terminal/window manager/chrome
and /ssh Webhostbudd: the aur has everything though mercutio: i tried using it in vmware under windows for a while
then i upgraded and X broke Webhostbudd: lol mercutio: my router is fine on the current type system
oh maybe that's fixed now
i kind of want fast virtualisation under windows of linux base dektop
or unix
cos i like notion
and a rapid/fast environment
but i want to be able to play games without rebooting Webhostbudd: doesn't virtualbox do that?
virtualbox has always been fast for me mercutio: mm
vmware kind of worked
i wonder what virtualbox is like now Webhostbudd: virtualbox has been great for arch guests mercutio: vmware's got thie annoying bar up the top of the screen
i seem to have virtualbox installed and smartos and openbsd Webhostbudd: lol mercutio: openbsd seems to only do 1024x768
oh are you using arch kernel? Webhostbudd: the default one?
yes mercutio: wow real recent relase
for iso
downloading now Webhostbudd: 9-7 mercutio: yeh it's 9/9 here
and it's dated 9/7 Webhostbudd: mhmm
they release very frequently mercutio: i'm +12 GMT
i wish ati had open source drivers that worked with current video cards Webhostbudd: they used to do yearly images, but since AIF is dead they release often
all of my ati stuff is semi old
so i have no issues
have you done an arch install recently? mercutio: it doens't ilke my iso for some reason
nope
i can't even remember how i did arch in xen Webhostbudd: the new installer or lack thereof is awesome mercutio: bah i need coffee
trying newer virtualbox
dunno why it'd not like my iso
but i'm using windows 8 for desktop... Webhostbudd: weird
and im not really sure how im going to put up with windows 8
but i kinda want smb 3.0
and other goodies mercutio: i dont' like window s8 much
but i tend to not like things
i like openbsd for what it does
windows 8 i'm using a start replacement
and the start replacement isnt' that good
wtf
windows 8 won't start it cos it's not compatible
even if i try starting it with windows 7 compatibility mode Webhostbudd: lol mercutio: oh it didn't donwload the whole way
no error or aynthing
same thing happened again
but even less data
it was downlopading slower too akamai prob maybe
cos the other version downloaded faster and whole way
oh wtf
arch download is small too
i can't believe chrome doesn't even detect incomplete downloads Webhostbudd: chrome's downloader is terrible
i've had better results on firefox and even IE mercutio: well i downloaded with curl on my router with arch and it got the file fine
i'm stil curious how that can even happen
when i loked at external download programs they were pretty disgusting
getright seemed to be best
but uhh ick
hah ok that's better
no weird error message just a shell prompt ***: ryk has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) mercutio: not too bad
nice that it has zsh
not so nice it doesn't have vim Webhostbudd: i know.... mercutio: also you have to google how to install it :) ***: ryk has joined #arpnetworks Webhostbudd: nah
vi install.txt
done
and to be honest the only real utils you may not know are pacstrap, arch-chroot, genfstab
the rest you probably already know
anyway
night mercutio: it should tell you that
didn't know the grub config file generator Webhostbudd: doesn't it say to open install.txt mercutio: which didn't work properly aynway
nope Webhostbudd: oh
lol
i feel like it should print that at startup mercutio: i can't screen cap
yes!
it says automatic login
root@archiso Webhostbudd: anyway, im out ***: Webhostbudd has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving) mercutio: ahh this is like web page i found
ok ***: near has joined #arpnetworks
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near has left Webhostbudd: woohoo, got near perfect ipv6 setup in my home
probably the only good thing about having comcast phlux: U-Verse assigns me an ipv6 but it can't ping anything
its weird Webhostbudd: sounds gay phlux: yeah
I might set up a local ipv6 tunnel
that'd be kind of cool Webhostbudd: it's just not worth it
any service works on ipv4 these days
and the latency of ipv4 will almost certainly be lower
i would just wait for real ipv6 support from the isp phlux: yeah mercutio: even with real ipv6 pings can be higher mhoran: Wish my ISP provided IPv6. jdoe: heh
would like an ISP that provides real ipv6
not like... a /128 :| ***: dj_goku has joined #arpnetworks
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dj_goku has joined #arpnetworks mhoran: I mean, you can do anything with a /128 ...
Just gotta get something to route to it.
Google seems to be waging war against HE.net tunnels.
I keep getting a "suspicious activity" CAPTCHA across all the devices on my network. kraigu: I think their reputation is... somewhat checkered, no? mhoran: For sure, but it's the only way I can get IPv6 at home. ***: dj_goku has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection) mjp: lucky no one actually _needs_ IPv6 :p ***: Ehtyar has joined #arpnetworks mhoran: I _need_ it to connect to my webserver over IPv6. :p Webhostbudd: but your webserver has an ipv4 address? andol: mhoran: Tried SixXS? ***: sako has joined #arpnetworks
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sako has joined #arpnetworks mikeputnam: whoa. creepy! Just worked though my first OpenBSD IPv6 + IPv4 dual-stack setup. AND #arpnetworks IS TALKING ABOUT IPV6!!!1
incidentally, is my arpnetworks ipv6 being tunneled off somewhere via tunnel provider or is arpnets au natural ipv6? just wondering. Webhostbudd: native
well, that's what garry says anyway
but seeing as i get ~1-10ms to google i would assume it is, unless the tunnel broker is located in the same building, at which point it really wouldn't matter anyway mikeputnam: cool!
as long as i stay inside my purchased bandwidth, i suppose i can tunnel my own ipv6 though arpnet
or just call and complain to my residential ISP CaZe: My DSL's been down for three days.
I've been tethering throuhg my phone.
My throughput is almost four times faster.
An extra 200 ms latency though. mikeputnam: heh jdoe: mikeputnam: it's native mikeputnam: it's actually been faster in my ping6 testing
i just checked the web sites of every company i've worked for since college and not one of them is ipv6. but our hacker/makerspace web site is by golly. jdoe: shocking.
a few (very) major sites on ipv6
and enthusiasts
and very little in between ***: sako has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
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sako has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) Webhostbudd: yup
no one really gives a crap right now
ipv4 works for them
plus, it will be years before consumers even upgrade their hardware to be ipv6 compatible
"average consumers"