#arpnetworks 2012-09-09,Sun

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Who	What	When
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Webhostbudd	up_the_irons: any suggestions for server grade boards with many pcie lanes? im looking for something at home that is capable of supporting 3xsas cards and an infiniband card	[01:07]
up_the_irons	Webhostbudd: intel or amd?	[01:09]
Webhostbudd	most likely intel, but amd might be an option i was thinking intel because i may end up using it as a hypervisor, and freebsd / illumos have better intel than amd support	[01:09]
up_the_irons	Webhostbudd: the intel boards we use are a bit shy on pci-e (we don't need much), but one amd board we're using has a lot: http://www.supermicro.com/aplus/motherboard/opteron6000/sr56x0/h8dgi-f.cfm	[01:10]
Webhostbudd	i see im guessing you are using x<>scm boards? oh nice	[01:10]
up_the_irons	you get 3 16x to start, then 1 8x, and 2 4x it's pretty loaded	[01:11]
Webhostbudd	yea, i was browsing around on supermicro's site trying to find the best deal it seems as though you need dual socket to get a decent amount of lanes	[01:11]
up_the_irons	we only use dual socket, so i wouldn't know about the single sockets	[01:12]
Webhostbudd	oh, alright what about the new dedi's?	[01:12]
up_the_irons	oh, well, yeah those are single	[01:12]
Webhostbudd	i see and the kvm hosts are all dual socket?	[01:12]
up_the_irons	the dedi's don't have shit for pci-e ;)	[01:13]
mercutio	web: impressive home setup :) 20:08:20 Webhostbudd im looking for something at home that is capable of supporting 3xsas cards and an infiniband card ???gneous	[01:13]
Webhostbudd	thanks	[01:13]
mercutio	i can't say i've heard of anyone else wanting such high spec for home :)	[01:13]
up_the_irons	one of the dedi models are blades: http://www.supermicro.com/products/motherboard/xeon/c202_c204/x9scd-f.cfm 1 pci-e :)	[01:13]
Webhostbudd	ahh yea, i was looking at the x9scm-f I'm just not sure how well it will do	[01:13]
up_the_irons	the other is: http://www.supermicro.com/products/motherboard/xeon/c202_c204/x9scl-f.cfm	[01:14]
Webhostbudd	my current consumer board just isn't cutting it	[01:14]
up_the_irons	so the x9scl-f is pretty shy as well	[01:14]
Webhostbudd	up_the_irons: yea, the x9scm has 1 more pcie 4x 2x8 and 2x4 in 8 mechanical which would work, but i was thinking that might limit bandwidth	[01:14]
up_the_irons	so, looks like you may need to go dual socket	[01:15]
Webhostbudd	yea, that's how it seems the problem is the price of a dual socket setup is crazy	[01:15]
up_the_irons	why 3x sas with infiniband? i would imagine the infiniband bus would take your disk traffic elsewhere...	[01:16]
Webhostbudd	it does	[01:16]
up_the_irons	unless that "elsewhere" is what you're building :)	[01:16]
Webhostbudd	the infiniband is connected to a switch connected to my desktop and other machines local ip routed	[01:16]
up_the_irons	got it so you're building a big storage machine	[01:17]
Webhostbudd	mhmm	[01:17]
up_the_irons	? cool	[01:17]
Webhostbudd	my current consumer board has issues handling multiple sas cards though	[01:17]
up_the_irons	well yeah, consumer	[01:17]
Webhostbudd	and that's where the problems start i seriously wonder if i need the x8 bandwidth for all cards though	[01:18]
up_the_irons	yeah my 8x raid 10 cards are just 4x	[01:18]
Webhostbudd	yea	[01:18]
up_the_irons	8x being 8 drives, not 8x pci-e	[01:18]
Webhostbudd	i figure if a dedicate a x8 for the infiniband it should be fine yea, ill probably end up taking the x9scm because i don't really need the computing power of two processors an e3-1230v2 should be plenty	[01:18]
up_the_irons	that's a nice proc	[01:20]
Webhostbudd	yea, it seems like a sweet spot of $/performance	[01:21]
mercutio	only problem with those e3s is you can only take 32gb of ram	[01:21]
up_the_irons	it's what we use in the dedi's	[01:21]
mercutio	and even then you need 8gb sticks	[01:21]
Webhostbudd	yes	[01:21]
mercutio	if that's not a problem for you you should be sweet	[01:21]
Webhostbudd	that is a huge problem well, my biggest problem i should say	[01:21]
mercutio	if that's a problem you end up needing to spend quite a bit more money	[01:21]
Webhostbudd	exactly they actually had a 4x8GB kit for ~$240	[01:22]
up_the_irons	since most of our dedi's are blades with only 4x slots, isn't too big a deal. we'll figure out something else if we get requests for 64GB ram, etc...	[01:22]
Webhostbudd	yup	[01:22]
mercutio	up_the_irons: well that will lack harddisk bandwidth anyway? i wouldn't have brought it up if he hadn't brought up 3x sas cards and infiniband which means a lot of disk badnwidth is likely :)	[01:22]
up_the_irons	mercutio: indeed, only 2x drive bays in the blades, so those who want more get the near identical spec 1U instead or i put in an H B A whuops ...HBA card into the blades	[01:23]
mercutio	up_the_irons: tbh, if i wanted a machine with 64gb ram + i'd prob want to jump to 2u	[01:23]
up_the_irons	mercutio: yeah	[01:24]
mercutio	oh webhost.. one thing about those e3s is that you have to flash rom for lsi controllers using that new fangled ipmi bios command line thingy if you want to use the other mode thingy err use disks direclty	[01:25]
Webhostbudd	what?	[01:25]
mercutio	like if you want to use zfs or md or such ie software raid	[01:26]
Webhostbudd	i have to flash the bios of the mobo?	[01:26]
mercutio	nah of the card if you want direct disks rather than "card raid"	[01:26]
Webhostbudd	my cards are all flashed into it mode	[01:26]
mercutio	oh yip	[01:26]
Webhostbudd	they are actually ibm m1015's but they are flashed to 9211-8i it	[01:26]
mercutio	oh you done it already yeh	[01:26]
Webhostbudd	yea	[01:26]
mercutio	well if you do it on the e3 boards you have to do it with ipmi	[01:27]
Webhostbudd	interesting can't do it with freedos?	[01:27]
mercutio	it's like DOS nope	[01:27]
Webhostbudd	shit well, i don't have to worry about that much	[01:27]
mercutio	it's like DOS but it isn't yeh you can pre flash	[01:27]
Webhostbudd	my consumer board can handle one card at a time if nothing else	[01:27]
mercutio	it's not too bad once you get the hang of it but it's a huge wtf if you don't knopw ahead	[01:27]
Webhostbudd	yea, i actually had to do that on my uefi board before	[01:28]
mercutio	oops i mean uefi not ipmi	[01:28]
Webhostbudd	mhmm	[01:28]
mercutio	oh so you've done it already :)	[01:28]
Webhostbudd	that's what i thought	[01:28]
mercutio	the board has ipmi too	[01:28]
Webhostbudd	yea, ipmi is pretty awesome but i've been finding that the security is horribly subpar	[01:28]
mercutio	what did you think of the eufi command line? just use ipsec/l2tp?	[01:29]
Webhostbudd	it will be on an internel network	[01:29]
mercutio	ahh ok	[01:29]
Webhostbudd	it's just sad how terrible it is	[01:29]
mercutio	of course it's at home :) yeah	[01:29]
Webhostbudd	it will have a public ipv6 address though =p	[01:30]
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mercutio	i was reading about this ethernet switch vulnberability	[01:30]
up_the_irons	ipmi security is horrible, we don't even offer it for our dedi's outside of our new customer vpn: http://support.arpnetworks.com/kb/main/customer-vpn	[01:30]
Webhostbudd	granted, i won't allow traffic through the gateway pointed at it	[01:30]
mercutio	and it had a bypass password and it was an industrial one and it's liek people never want to update industrial things	[01:30]
Webhostbudd	exactly that's why i prefer dumb switches	[01:31]
mercutio	but like who is accountable?	[01:31]
Webhostbudd	dunno are there any dumb level 3 switches?>	[01:31]
mercutio	level 3?	[01:32]
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up_the_irons	layer 3	[01:32]
Webhostbudd	yea what i meant	[01:32]
mercutio	isn't layer 3 not dumb?	[01:32]
up_the_irons	i would say layer 3 implies some sort of management	[01:32]
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Webhostbudd	well, you could still make it so there isn't a management interface	[01:33]
mercutio	you mean serial port only?	[01:33]
Webhostbudd	something not tied to the ip network	[01:33]
mercutio	you could just disable ssh/telnet?	[01:33]
up_the_irons	but then what would be the point?	[01:33]
mercutio	well if you stuck all the ports on vlans then nothing can reach management	[01:33]
Webhostbudd	it at least prevents attacks at a layer 2 level mercutio: that's true	[01:33]
mercutio	i've never heard of a vlan escalation in a cisco switch and in normal use people tend to use vlans on expensive switches even if just to justify the cost of the switch	[01:34]
Webhostbudd	lol it sucks that going dual socket is going to double the price of the parts i need	[01:35]
mercutio	i used to say that hubs were faster than switches but then i realised it was pointless	[01:35]
Webhostbudd	hahaha	[01:36]
mercutio	well they do cut-through forwarding normally so they have lower latency which matters more at 100 megabit than faster speeds but like switch latency has got a lot better on cheap swithces and is often worse on more expensive ones cos of all the fancy stuff i waited a little while to see if anyone would come out with a home user cut-through switch for home users but it seems that is never likely to happen	[01:36]
Webhostbudd	what do you mean cut-through/	[01:38]
mercutio	http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cut-through_switching apparently infiniband often uses it basically you wait for the source/destination to come through then you start forwarding the packet rather than wait the whole packet to come then send to the destination	[01:38]
Webhostbudd	oh i see	[01:39]
mercutio	so hubs used to operate like that anyway also intel ethernet cards used to cheat which made them get higher speeds on network by reducing interpacket gap i think it was but now ethernet is pretty stagnant	[01:40]
Webhostbudd	yea i've had the same ethernet stuff for years	[01:41]
mercutio	i had lower latency 10 years ago	[01:41]
Webhostbudd	not surprising	[01:41]
mercutio	like 0.060 msec? now you're lucky to get under .1 msec	[01:42]
Webhostbudd	mhmm most of the time im sitting at 0.2ms	[01:42]
mercutio	what kind of switch?	[01:42]
Webhostbudd	netgear gigabit layer 2	[01:42]
mercutio	the cheap managed one?	[01:43]
Webhostbudd	some cheap 5 port deal nope	[01:43]
mercutio	oh my d-link is pretty good for latency	[01:43]
Webhostbudd	i actually have the cheap managed one at home	[01:43]
mercutio	the cheap netgear managed are a bit worse yeh	[01:43]
Webhostbudd	yes they are	[01:43]
mercutio	linux or windows? or something else?	[01:43]
Webhostbudd	*nix generally	[01:43]
mercutio	solaris? who says *nix	[01:44]
Webhostbudd	got a freebsd storage server	[01:44]
mercutio	heh :)	[01:44]
Webhostbudd	openindiana kvm box linux desktops	[01:44]
mercutio	ahh	[01:44]
Webhostbudd	so the whole spectrum	[01:44]
mercutio	openindiana needs tuning to lower latency i dunno about freebsd	[01:44]
Webhostbudd	oh yea	[01:44]
mercutio	linux isn't too bad	[01:44]
Webhostbudd	the oi box is mostly testing	[01:44]
mercutio	e1000g0 is easy to tune	[01:44]
Webhostbudd	i just wanted to play around on oi	[01:45]
mercutio	oh yip how are you finding it?	[01:45]
Webhostbudd	im not sure i really like it at this point	[01:45]
mercutio	heh	[01:45]
Webhostbudd	but then again, i never really liked the solaris userland much	[01:45]
mercutio	that's kind of how i feel about it but then i consider alternatives	[01:45]
Webhostbudd	the userland is what sucks	[01:45]
mercutio	and i'm like "ARGH!" did you find /usr/gnu/bin/dd?	[01:45]
Webhostbudd	the userland drives me nuts	[01:45]
mercutio	yeh but you have kvm	[01:45]
Webhostbudd	yea, i know about the gnu part	[01:45]
mercutio	what do you think of smf?	[01:45]
Webhostbudd	ehhh i think i like systemd more honestly	[01:46]
mercutio	i haven't tried systemd	[01:46]
Webhostbudd	i fucking hate xml	[01:46]
mercutio	i hate xml too :)	[01:46]
Webhostbudd	so smf is always just meh	[01:46]
mercutio	i'm using openindiana/xen and xen isn't even supported any more but it works	[01:46]
Webhostbudd	i really need to try out stormos	[01:47]
mercutio	my core2duo can't run kvm on openindiana and tbh i like xm console	[01:47]
Webhostbudd	it might not be as frustrating	[01:47]
mercutio	i want to try uhh	[01:47]
Webhostbudd	yea, im not a xen guy	[01:47]
mercutio	smartos? is it called	[01:47]
Webhostbudd	well, it's really just stripped down illumos	[01:47]
mercutio	i like kvm cos it run openbsd	[01:47]
Webhostbudd	really?	[01:47]
mercutio	but i don't like havikng to use vnc	[01:48]
Webhostbudd	oh use spice	[01:48]
mercutio	spice?	[01:48]
Webhostbudd	http://spice-space.org/ it's actually pretty nice even though it is only beta quality	[01:48]
mercutio	is there a client for windopws?	[01:49]
Webhostbudd	yes	[01:49]
mercutio	cool does it work on openindiana?	[01:49]
Webhostbudd	i have no idea if you can compile this on the illumos qemu-kvm though	[01:49]
mercutio	oh	[01:49]
Webhostbudd	because it compiles into the package	[01:50]
mercutio	openindiana had another release recently	[01:50]
Webhostbudd	did it?	[01:50]
mercutio	they're not moving very fast yeh not much updated 151a6	[01:50]
Webhostbudd	that's a shame	[01:50]
mercutio	what version are you on ? 151a?	[01:50]
Webhostbudd	a5	[01:50]
mercutio	something? oh wow that's quite up to date	[01:50]
Webhostbudd	im always up to date with most of my machines	[01:51]
mercutio	i think i jumped from a2 to a5 Bump illumos to 13793:10c3656ccf76 don't you love their release notes like wtf does that mean Bump KVM driver Bump NVIDIA driver to 295.71	[01:51]
Webhostbudd	mhmm	[01:51]
mercutio	Bump qemu-kvm well they'd doing stuff with kvm but they don't say what	[01:51]
Webhostbudd	woah, they have gcc 4.4.4 i didn't even realize that	[01:52]
mercutio	that's not that recent? but yeh non gcc3 :)	[01:52]
Webhostbudd	well, better than gcc3 yea	[01:52]
mercutio	you'd think they'd go to 4.6.1 or soemthing	[01:53]
Webhostbudd	does the whole system build with 4.4.4 though?	[01:53]
mercutio	do you remember when redhat got "told off" for using a cvs compiler? i don't think so i think it was egcs but like now ubuntu is bundling a prerelease compiler gcc version 4.7.1 20120814 (prerelease) (Ubuntu/Linaro 4.7.1-7ubuntu1) well in quantal	[01:53]
Webhostbudd	im using arch	[01:54]
mercutio	i have a arch host too	[01:54]
Webhostbudd	pretty much always have a prelease compiler	[01:54]
mercutio	i have't shifted to systemd yet gcc version 4.7.1 20120721 (prerelease) (GCC) second is arch	[01:54]
Webhostbudd	yep	[01:54]
mercutio	have you noticed how much faster pacman -Sy is than apt-get update	[01:55]
Webhostbudd	pacman blazes especially in the 3.4 to 3.5 bump	[01:55]
mercutio	it's like 5x faster than apt-get at installing things	[01:55]
Webhostbudd	when they added the ram caching	[01:55]
mercutio	it's one of the things i notice most often about it	[01:55]
Webhostbudd	see, i don't run any debian or rpm systems	[01:56]
mercutio	i have one problem with arch though	[01:56]
Webhostbudd	just arch what's that?	[01:56]
mercutio	oh god openindiana is slow package management umm i can't have seperate /usr easily it's really complicated compared to ubuntu	[01:56]
Webhostbudd	separate? oh	[01:56]
mercutio	yeh like another file system	[01:56]
Webhostbudd	they are trying to fix that	[01:56]
mercutio	cos i've been experimenting with /usr on btrfs with compression=lzo on ubuntu it seems to make the system feel faster and i figure that it's lower risk than data on btrfs :)	[01:56]
Webhostbudd	i've pretty much ditched btrfs	[01:57]
mercutio	how come?	[01:57]
Webhostbudd	kernel panics	[01:57]
mercutio	real?	[01:57]
Webhostbudd	all sorts of weird shit	[01:57]
mercutio	i've never had any panics from it? i use recent kernels though	[01:57]
Webhostbudd	most people haven't	[01:57]
mercutio	do you have bad ram?	[01:58]
Webhostbudd	i just updated to kernel 3.5.1 and boom	[01:58]
mercutio	oh	[01:58]
Webhostbudd	panics every time i write a lot of data	[01:58]
mercutio	i don't think i used 3.5 much	[01:58]
Webhostbudd	err kernel 3.5.3	[01:58]
mercutio	i'm using 3.6.0-rc3	[01:58]
Webhostbudd	so i just ditched it an did ext4	[01:58]
mercutio	and rc4	[01:58]
Webhostbudd	it's so much faster on my ssd than btrfs was	[01:58]
mercutio	but before that i was using like 3.3 ? really?	[01:58]
Webhostbudd	oh yea	[01:59]
mercutio	i wonder why	[01:59]
Webhostbudd	me too i even had all of the ssd optimizations set up	[01:59]
mercutio	i want to figure out how to get compression on my cellphone easiest linux seems fast even on my slowest ssd	[01:59]
Webhostbudd	that sounds like a challenge	[01:59]
mercutio	my cellphone only has 512mb internal memory	[02:00]
Webhostbudd	well, i got a 256gb m4 for my windows machine and my linux machines on hdd's boot faster	[02:00]
mercutio	i managed to compile a kernel for it	[02:00]
Webhostbudd	im not even starting much what kind of phone?	[02:00]
mercutio	my windows boots faster than linux lg p500	[02:00]
Webhostbudd	oh	[02:00]
mercutio	but i think that's partially changing video moed	[02:01]
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mercutio	mode	[02:01]
Webhostbudd	mercutio: you also don't use systemd =p	[02:01]
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mercutio	linux has always been slow at changing video mode oh i'm using ubuntu for desktop arch on my router	[02:01]
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mercutio	i mostly use windows atm though	[02:01]
Webhostbudd	same =(	[02:01]
mercutio	bootchart is screwed in ubuntu for ages i don't know how fast it's booting hmm maybe i should install arch linux i like ubuntu for desktop cos all the packages are there	[02:01]
Webhostbudd	well, what de or wm do you use? what packages is arch missing?	[02:02]
mercutio	but i hate it for having all this crap everywehre i don't want notion umm package it's missing umm i can't remember i just remember eeven on my router every now and then it doesn't have something it doesn't have apache traffic server for instance it has notion actually i hardly use anything	[02:02]
Webhostbudd	i see	[02:04]
mercutio	i mostly just use terminal/window manager/chrome and /ssh	[02:04]
Webhostbudd	the aur has everything though	[02:04]
mercutio	i tried using it in vmware under windows for a while then i upgraded and X broke	[02:04]
Webhostbudd	lol	[02:04]
mercutio	my router is fine on the current type system oh maybe that's fixed now i kind of want fast virtualisation under windows of linux base dektop or unix cos i like notion and a rapid/fast environment but i want to be able to play games without rebooting	[02:05]
Webhostbudd	doesn't virtualbox do that? virtualbox has always been fast for me	[02:05]
mercutio	mm vmware kind of worked i wonder what virtualbox is like now	[02:06]
Webhostbudd	virtualbox has been great for arch guests	[02:06]
mercutio	vmware's got thie annoying bar up the top of the screen i seem to have virtualbox installed and smartos and openbsd	[02:06]
Webhostbudd	lol	[02:07]
mercutio	openbsd seems to only do 1024x768 oh are you using arch kernel?	[02:08]
Webhostbudd	the default one? yes	[02:09]
mercutio	wow real recent relase for iso downloading now	[02:09]
Webhostbudd	9-7	[02:09]
mercutio	yeh it's 9/9 here and it's dated 9/7	[02:09]
Webhostbudd	mhmm they release very frequently	[02:09]
mercutio	i'm +12 GMT i wish ati had open source drivers that worked with current video cards	[02:10]
Webhostbudd	they used to do yearly images, but since AIF is dead they release often all of my ati stuff is semi old so i have no issues have you done an arch install recently?	[02:10]
mercutio	it doens't ilke my iso for some reason nope i can't even remember how i did arch in xen	[02:13]
Webhostbudd	the new installer or lack thereof is awesome	[02:13]
mercutio	bah i need coffee trying newer virtualbox dunno why it'd not like my iso but i'm using windows 8 for desktop...	[02:14]
Webhostbudd	weird and im not really sure how im going to put up with windows 8 but i kinda want smb 3.0 and other goodies	[02:15]
mercutio	i dont' like window s8 much but i tend to not like things i like openbsd for what it does windows 8 i'm using a start replacement and the start replacement isnt' that good wtf windows 8 won't start it cos it's not compatible even if i try starting it with windows 7 compatibility mode	[02:21]
Webhostbudd	lol	[02:23]
mercutio	oh it didn't donwload the whole way no error or aynthing same thing happened again but even less data it was downlopading slower too akamai prob maybe cos the other version downloaded faster and whole way oh wtf arch download is small too i can't believe chrome doesn't even detect incomplete downloads	[02:26]
Webhostbudd	chrome's downloader is terrible i've had better results on firefox and even IE	[02:31]
mercutio	well i downloaded with curl on my router with arch and it got the file fine i'm stil curious how that can even happen when i loked at external download programs they were pretty disgusting getright seemed to be best but uhh ick hah ok that's better no weird error message just a shell prompt	[02:33]
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mercutio	not too bad nice that it has zsh not so nice it doesn't have vim	[02:41]
Webhostbudd	i know....	[02:42]
mercutio	also you have to google how to install it :)	[02:43]
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Webhostbudd	nah vi install.txt done and to be honest the only real utils you may not know are pacstrap, arch-chroot, genfstab the rest you probably already know anyway night	[02:50]
mercutio	it should tell you that didn't know the grub config file generator	[02:51]
Webhostbudd	doesn't it say to open install.txt	[02:51]
mercutio	which didn't work properly aynway nope	[02:51]
Webhostbudd	oh lol i feel like it should print that at startup	[02:51]
mercutio	i can't screen cap yes! it says automatic login root@archiso	[02:52]
Webhostbudd	anyway, im out	[02:52]
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mercutio	ahh this is like web page i found ok	[02:52]
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Webhostbudd	woohoo, got near perfect ipv6 setup in my home probably the only good thing about having comcast	[16:10]
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phlux	U-Verse assigns me an ipv6 but it can't ping anything its weird	[16:36]
Webhostbudd	sounds gay	[16:37]
phlux	yeah I might set up a local ipv6 tunnel that'd be kind of cool	[16:38]
Webhostbudd	it's just not worth it any service works on ipv4 these days and the latency of ipv4 will almost certainly be lower i would just wait for real ipv6 support from the isp	[16:38]
phlux	yeah	[16:38]
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mercutio	even with real ipv6 pings can be higher	[16:57]
mhoran	Wish my ISP provided IPv6.	[17:08]
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jdoe	heh would like an ISP that provides real ipv6 not like... a /128 :\|	[17:36]
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mhoran	I mean, you can do anything with a /128 ... Just gotta get something to route to it. Google seems to be waging war against HE.net tunnels. I keep getting a "suspicious activity" CAPTCHA across all the devices on my network.	[17:47]
kraigu	I think their reputation is... somewhat checkered, no?	[17:57]
.... (idle for 19mn)
mhoran	For sure, but it's the only way I can get IPv6 at home.	[18:16]
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mjp	lucky no one actually _needs_ IPv6 :p	[18:32]
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mhoran	I _need_ it to connect to my webserver over IPv6. :p	[18:40]
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Webhostbudd	but your webserver has an ipv4 address?	[19:17]
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andol	mhoran: Tried SixXS?	[20:02]
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mikeputnam	whoa. creepy! Just worked though my first OpenBSD IPv6 + IPv4 dual-stack setup. AND #arpnetworks IS TALKING ABOUT IPV6!!!1 incidentally, is my arpnetworks ipv6 being tunneled off somewhere via tunnel provider or is arpnets au natural ipv6? just wondering.	[21:15]
Webhostbudd	native well, that's what garry says anyway but seeing as i get ~1-10ms to google i would assume it is, unless the tunnel broker is located in the same building, at which point it really wouldn't matter anyway	[21:19]
mikeputnam	cool! as long as i stay inside my purchased bandwidth, i suppose i can tunnel my own ipv6 though arpnet	[21:21]
	or just call and complain to my residential ISP	[21:31]
CaZe	My DSL's been down for three days. I've been tethering throuhg my phone. My throughput is almost four times faster. An extra 200 ms latency though.	[21:38]
mikeputnam	heh	[21:40]
jdoe	mikeputnam: it's native	[21:50]
mikeputnam	it's actually been faster in my ping6 testing i just checked the web sites of every company i've worked for since college and not one of them is ipv6. but our hacker/makerspace web site is by golly.	[21:51]
jdoe	shocking. a few (very) major sites on ipv6 and enthusiasts and very little in between	[22:00]
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Webhostbudd	yup no one really gives a crap right now ipv4 works for them plus, it will be years before consumers even upgrade their hardware to be ipv6 compatible "average consumers"	[22:52]

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