lvm on centos is a bit nicer now that they (I think) stopped naming everythin VolGroupXX and LogVolXX by default. pain in the ass when you're trying to put one machine's disks in another. (ie "hardware died, rescue time") it's nice to nam disks by their hostname making Debian 6 templates.. w00t man, Debian boots quick holy.shit. was able to resize Debian auto install template on-the-fly during provisioning just need to script that up... and it'll be quite a bit less burdensome to manage the debian 6 templates weird, i've found ubuntu to boot much faster than debian in general really? i've noticed the opposite that's server version of both is debian using btrfs now? i've noticed btrfs boots slightly faster than ext4 I think you can choose btrfs in the Debian 6.0 installer, but it's not the default mercutio: default is ext3 still ahh ok i wonder why debian still uses /etc/inittab, it is very conservative :) why it boots fast i mean there's not much going on with it i like /etc/inittab like, it doesn't do much on boot hmm neither does ubuntu The Debian base install really is very small i've noticed arch is pretty fast to boot oh, /netbsd/ i found fast to boot and VERY small It's a good size! yeh i'm sick of bloat i'm wondering why my netbsd takes up so much now oh i installed all the source lol so you're templating images now? oh you were before too weren't you? i think i did a reinstall straight away mercutio: we always templated, yeah maybe you should update openbsd at same time :) i'm just finally finding time to refresh all our templates, and jpalmer is helping me with centos, so that'll be in the mix now too ahh true mercutio: ? we already have 5.1 oh real you didn't when i did my install :) i think it was 4.7 yeah we didn't have 5.1 right away i don't think 5.1 was out when i installed ah gotta peel myself away from this screen, bbl W00t at Debian 6. Next time I won't have to upgrade. i feel like i have been running squeeze for like 3 years now Guest49601: Services are back, you've be renicked. Services are back. Man I moved to Gentoo from Arch a few months ago and now I want to move all of my VPSes over to Gentoo, also :| My ARP VPS is FreeBSD for the time being 4:33PM up 396 days, 18:41, 4 users, load averages: 0.10, 0.06, 0.02 there was a port of Portage to FreeBSD at one point interesting why's that? portage...? gentoo portagE? arenlor: :) nice netsplit freebsd portage not a fan of gentoo generally and portage is a violation of poor little freebsd's bits :~( (I'm also a snob) phlux: what do u like about gentoo? kraigu: violation of bits? :) up_the_irons: yes! :D up_the_irons: you know what I mean it's all about the sanctity of the bits, man yus wait, that's not going on my bill for next month, is it? :D i think kraigu needs more whiskey I ALWAYS need more whiskey. lol what about the freebsd/debian thing kraigu debian gnu/kfreebsd i think it is? I've seen it same here it's at least not as gross =] haha I ... really don't see the point of tying a freebsd kernel to a linux userspace though to me, part of the reason you run FreeBSD is for the integration between said kernel and the userspace if you want to run linux... run linux that said, it takes all kinds heh yeah i must admit i haven't played much with freebsd any time recently and the freebsd ports collection was terrible when i used it in what way? it's like they didn't have stable release system for ports up_the_irons: I like the package management - specifically etc-update's way of managing config files that may need updating. but they did for kernel/userland mercutio: that's the whole point,r eally i duno, lots of packages were broken didn't work dependency hell etc mercutio: you *can* stick to just "what was released" with binary packages, but (I wouldn't) this was before freebsd gave my file system corruption if that's your objection then it hasn't gotten any better :D me nd i switched to openbsd which had much more stale pots ports stable haha stale too probably i dunno yes :D I like "stale pots" though ;) i don't use many things I switched the other way round, from openbsd to freebsd i have used the same window manage for 11 years I used to have an openbsd desktop phlux: ah cool +r before that i use enlightenment/twm i alternated a little i dunno why openbsd defaults to fvwm twm is a much saner default i prefer fvwm actually I was fvwm for a few years, then a friend showed me windowmaker, and that's what I use when I have to use a non-Mac desktop nowadays back ages ago i tried them all window maker, ovlwm or something, fvwm, twm, enlightenment, something box, umm kde, gnome, you guys are going to hate me they were all terrible but it's KDE4 here. kde was actually one of the best :) but it was just too slow on older gaer gear it at least seemed coherent yeah it is slow on older equipment then i found ion :) but my laptop is powerful enough to handle it fine - so why not do it? :) hmm my laptop is too slow with linux it's fine on windows actuall that's before i upgraded the ram phlux: dude, I run Macs as desktops by choice, why would I hate you for KDE4? ;) linux really desn't work well as a desktop on 2gb ram well, aside from your bad taste ;) lol mercutio: It will with the right WM i dunno why but windows handles 2gb of ram better than windos for dektop use phlux: nah it's mostly uhh chrome and virtualbox and uhh all tha other memory hungry stuff yeah virtualbox will eat right through 2GB of RAM i think it ws mostly chrome actually and X when I first got this laptop, it had 2GB, but KDE4 ran perfectly i don't think i actually use virtualbox on it I ran Chromium at that time virtualbox on 4gb was still sucky though I use Chrome now oh i use chromium in linux i think with an alias on starting to make it store it's cache directory in ram i have 16gb of ram though it didn't seem to make much diff I wonder if it makes any difference that I compiled from source, and you (I'm assuming here) compiled from binary? chrome is faster under linux than windows for me firefox is slower under linux than windows... i didn' compile from binary i used the provideded packages on the ubuntu atp repistory from google or whatever yeah that's binary packaging yeah Gentoo's package manager compiles everything from source i've built chrome from source on windows :) I wonder how much of a difference that makes performance-wise? oh god, you poor monkey yeh i used to use gentoo i dunno i wouldn't mind so much if i had a ssd at hte time but i found the constant disk grinding in the background distracting what i like about gentoo is being able to change options around and being able to have multiple options to provide similar functionality yeah, USE Flags are amazing they take some getting used to, but I love them but there were a few annoying things like it'd keep swapping between mirrors and one of the mirrors was always really slow mm and things like gnome took like 6 hours to build that is not typically the case anymore which would hav been k6-2 350 i think? <thinks back> I built KDE4 pretty quickly (~3.5 hours?) no that would have been athlon 1300 1 GB ram one hard-disk :/ 3.5 hours is quick? i'd asssume things build slower now with everything shifting to c++ and doing templates and rtlo used to take me ~8h to build a kernel and all that jazz used to take me 25 minutes to build a kernel and like 7 minutes to rebuild a kernel? :\ spoiled! that was 2.1 days? oh hangon it took me like 45 minutes on my k6-2 i had stripped kernels it actually varied a lot i juse realised my k6-2 was my shortest lived computer like 2 years 1 year i wonder what happened to it cosi went to a p133 and athlon 1300 oh i ditched the motherboard/cpu i think cos my athlon 1300 had same case mm i'm stuck in the past :/ desktop environemnts haven't really improved any time recently mercutio: Windows 8 promises to do the opposite though. unity is so ick it's not funny arenlor: i'm using winows 8 up_the_irons: Was there just a heavy spike on kvr05 for disk? arenlor: classic shell http://classicshell.sourceforge.net/ mercutio: Sadly I support Windows, so I'll have to get it and use it. it's not that bad basially don't think "click on start bar" arenlor: does not appear to be: load average: 3.74, 3.22, 2.76 think "windows key" that looks like a load spike to me :) iostat is way better for measuring than load average though A few months ago my last ME client had their computer fry, I've never been so happy to have a client ignore my "always use a surge protector" advice. hahahahaha mercutio: a rise in load by 1 from 15 minute avg to 1 minute avg is not a spike :) arenlor: lol up_the_irons: hmm, it was down ~3MB/s and is slowly rising. well a spike isn't necessarily for whole minute it depends how much activity there is normally that said there's a little bit of bias in my head where 3 is high load" and 2 is medium 1 is light 0.50 is good < 0.30 is hardly doing anything mercutio: my first kernel was 0.99pl14c on my 386DX-25 ;) load average mostly goes up by disk wait though Now it's up to 532MB/s it's much better at measuring disk load than cpu load kraigu: i had a 486dlc40 running os/2 kernel sources fit on a floppy disk, but .. yeah, 8 hours wasn't unusual but i'd played with linux ages ago and the text output was so slow it wasn't ufnny I miss OS/2 :( 486dlc40 is like 386dx-40 that 386 triple-booted linux,os/2,dos i think Heh, going through spam to make sure nothing is important, brain auto-ignores most of it, somehow sends "Cougar dating" to my concious self to analyze. arenlor: you getting desperate? :) os/2 with tshell was pretty fast much fastr than linux mercutio: Lol, must be. mercutio: you are not considering the number of cores in the machine. if you have 8 cores, then a load avg of 8 means 1:1 contention. Over 8 means something is waiting, under that, all processes are runnable except ones blocked on I/O (which is generally what raise the load avg) mercutio: you cannot say universally, "3" is high, "2" medium, etc... it's all relative up_the_irons: yeh i now i ws giving my bias rather tha stating it as fact a load of 3 on an 8 core machine is very different than a load of 3 on a 16 core, or 32 core machine mercutio: roger well yeh it depends how much you're running etc that said if you saw load average of 3 inside vps it'd seem high you also need multiple processes to generate load average i suppose ic ould say that disk i/o average wait time of > 40 msec is high too with iostat -x Anyone else use dovecot? but for that kind of thing to be accurate with virtualisation you need a lot of disk i/o speaking of load average, i see a strange peak of like 13 load average on a work host :/ it's already dissipated doo doo odoo it wsa never there :) What was never there? ;) heh it's a mail server i don't really care if a mail server gets a bit high in load average it's a work pc not on arp but like it's all relative like for a web proxy you want to have load average < 1 really whereas for a mail server it should be < 20 peak cos mail like if you get a mal storm temp it's ok to backlog a bit and it's better to accept than have the client back off */10 * * * * /etc/init.d/dovecot restart >/dev/null 2>&1 That should never be a solution. hahaha what's dovecot doing? Disconnecting various folders. that sounds bizzare i've had very few issues with dovecot Yeah, but that little hack solved it completely. compared to qpopper or cucipop Could be that I'm using imaps the annoying parts of dovecot are mostly to do with getting the imap folders mapped and the namespaces but that's syntax etc not stability never used imaps, but used iamp maybe you should try imap? see if it goes away? you could always do a ssh tunnel to your imap server if you really want encryption mercutio: Eh, my solution is simpler. imap clients like to leave connections open mercutio: That's the issue I think, if I don't use a folder for a while it disconnects it. The client thinks it's open though. For whatever reason, restarting it keeps it from disconnecting. oh that could be a nat timeout do ssh connections die randomly? Yep. erk :/ tcp keepalive may help i'm assuming that it's in your router thouh It's a DD-WRT oh are you doing double nat? Nope, modem bridges to it, it runs as the only NAT. weird do you use bittorrent or anything else with lots of connections? I use bittorrent, but never with a lot of connections. mm bittorrent can keep state on lots even with small number Libreoffice isn't the most popular of downloads. oh as a seed Currently seeding yes. # cat /proc/sys/net/netfilter/nf_conntrack_count 17 heh 4 peers total. i hardly have any # cat /proc/sys/net/netfilter/nf_conntrack_max 23400 Holy shit, it's been so long that I forgot I asked iTunes to launch, and it's just now coming up. i wonder what my adsl modem has oh my adsl modem has connection tracking disabled yeah i'd say it'd be better to try and fix any nat issues other restarting dovecot every 10 minutes but is uppose if it's good enough for you, it's good enough for you mercutio: I am lazy ^_^ i used to have an adsl modem that's drop ssh connections all the time now i just route a /29 through the adl modem adsl and everything is sweet If writing an entry into crontab is all I have to do, then that's all I do. and nat on a linux vps for wifi putty has a workaround for ssh connections dying btw I have code for websites that have /* Ugly, but works, so fuck it */ written above it. mercutio: What's the workaround? tcp keepalives and seconds between keep alive under connection (under putty config) How long should be good? 150 but you can try lower/higher it depends what the timeout is like basicall if your nat timeout is 3 minutes then 170 should work if it's 2 minutes you'd need 110 well i mean 119 or 179 should work but you never know if it'll get delayed or bad time keeping or somthing I like leaving a safety gap. that used to bug me to hell and back becuase i would be not using a shell then i'd type on it and it'd be all like connection reset by peer Yep but it'd never screw up when it was working but going and making a coffee or something and coming back would pretty much always screw it :/ Yep also some bsds and linux have keep alive in recent versions err always keepalive Debian? # cat /proc/sys/net/ipv4/tcp_keepalive_intvl 75 i thik it's that i've never done anthin with it depends on kerenl http://tldp.org/HOWTO/TCP-Keepalive-HOWTO/usingkeepalive.html 3.2.0-0.bpo.2-amd64 well see if those variables exist you'd have to drop keepalive_time as it defaults to two hours before sending any probes Yipes. yeh so set it to something like 120 or 150 are the proc files in there? Yep cool :) ok keepalive_time is the first probe keepalive_intvl is how often to probe after that keepalive_probes is how many non reponses before dropping the connection Nice, thanks. so after keep_alive time seconds it'll send keepalive_probes number of probes spaced keepalive_intvl apart Yep so you want keepalive_intvl*keeepaalive_probes long enough that you can have a minute or so of outage without your connection dying :) well i would cos i'm on dsl and would want it to cover a resync I'm on Cable, takes a few minutes to resync here. yeh so make it high enough to buffer against that :) the other thing that can do othr than keep nat connections up is it means if connections don't receive any traffic they'll still reset if the other end goes away without it you can have ssh sessions stay around for ages in the background because they've not send anything to realise the other end isn't there like ssh into host, reboot windows pc Ah lol, yeah, at least 2 hours. ssh into host see the old ssh look again hours later and it's stll there Remember that keepalive support, even if configured in the kernel, is not the default behavior in Linux. Programs must request keepalive control for their sockets using the setsockopt interface. There are relatively few programs implementing keepalive, but you can easily add keepalive support for most of them following the instructions explained later in this document. The only proc I've used before is /proc/sys/vm/drop_caches there's some always keep alive somewhre Meh, only keepalive I care about is ssh really Dovecot takes <1sec to restart, and there's no harm in doing so. sysctl net.inet.tcp.always_keepaliv in freebsd ok well set the socket option on ssh unless i can find out linux keepalive always net.inet.tcp.always_keepalive .. hmm it's the same in freebsd an openbsd KeepAlive yes ServerAliveInterval 60 in sshd_config i dunno if that uses tcp/ip keepalive or not some submitted a patch for linux in 1999 saying i was in the bsd's I have a TCPKeepAlive yes in there already. oh cool Just didn't have putty configured for it Which would explain why my Linux partition never disconnected. ssh has keepalive defaulted. the defaults are like 2 hours for tcp keepalive these nat issues are going to get worse with the ipv4 starvation mercutio: Yep. Even with Comcast I can't get real IPv6 heh This promises to be hilarious: https://twitter.com/#!/search/%23NoteToMyEx Loading Tweets seems to be taking a while. Twitter may be over capacity or experiencing a momentary hiccup. Try again or visit Twitter Status for more information. it loaded the first page It is funny, especially the teenage girls teenage boys place a close second though i juts saw stuff like i wish i never met you Yeah, there's a mix of boring in there. The one dude made a rhyme up about his ex not shutting up. Heh, my monitor and speakers will be here Friday, my tower gets here Monday. "Your a great Guy & I'm glad to see you happy, although you cheated & broke my heart a lot of times! I've learned & im moving on!" how's he a great guy? and why's she glad to see him happy? she's stupid as hell "perhaps next time you won't have sex with my bestfriend on my birthday" maybe she's not your best friend then... Told you it promises to be funny. The "next time" in that sentence is promising. Stupidity is great. heh so is t.co where all the spam is? Eh? bit.ly seems to have less spam err x.co? I've not heard of x.co err x.co redirects to t.co #NoteToMyEx you realize this functions ? http://x.co/n62u stuff like that t.co (and I'd suspect x.co) is Twitter's URL shortener/tracker ahh x.co appears to be godaddy http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/art/9491391/Elderly-woman-destroys-19th-century-fresco-with-DIY-restoration.html Is there anything more recommended than memtest86+? jpalmer: │20:21:44 up_the_irons | really? it has 768mb. i was able to use the text installer (i simply prefer text anyway) to not do lvm oh, u mean the other vm? jpalmer: ok, gave the other one 768 hard reboot it bbl my first 1year uptime.... ariel@arp:~$ uptime 01:02:25 up 365 days, 34 min, 1 user, load average: 0.08, 0.02, 0.01 ariel@arp:~$ thans to ARP!! hurra! thanks* wooo comcast with ipv6 =p :o so yea... i got this new apartment that comes with internet built in figured because they capped it after a certain point i would get comcast whoa the ENTIRE internet in your new apartment thats awesome but really i can't complain about 30Mb down / 30 Mb up didn't think they provided symmetric, that is pretty hard to find these days its rarer to find asymetric with upload much much higher :P lol apparently thats what usc has legit i might have to peer off of this just for upload.... peer to a single host? actually, i could setup a multi wan on my pfsense box and plug in the network speeds, and have it schedule packets properly `ariel: cool!