[00:09] lvm on centos is a bit nicer now that they (I think) stopped naming everythin VolGroupXX and LogVolXX by default. [00:09] pain in the ass when you're trying to put one machine's disks in another. (ie "hardware died, rescue time") [00:23] it's nice to nam disks by their hostname [00:31] *** Ehtyar has quit IRC (Quit: Going!) [02:24] making Debian 6 templates.. w00t [03:08] man, Debian boots quick [03:28] holy.shit. [03:28] *** Ehtyar has joined #arpnetworks [03:28] was able to resize Debian auto install template on-the-fly during provisioning [03:28] just need to script that up... [03:29] and it'll be quite a bit less burdensome to manage the debian 6 templates [04:12] weird, i've found ubuntu to boot much faster than debian in general [04:15] really? i've noticed the opposite [04:18] that's server version of both [04:18] is debian using btrfs now? [04:18] i've noticed btrfs boots slightly faster than ext4 [04:19] I think you can choose btrfs in the Debian 6.0 installer, but it's not the default [04:20] mercutio: default is ext3 still [04:20] ahh ok [04:20] i wonder why [04:20] debian still uses /etc/inittab, it is very conservative :) [04:20] why it boots fast i mean [04:20] there's not much going on with it [04:20] i like /etc/inittab [04:20] like, it doesn't do much on boot [04:20] hmm [04:20] neither does ubuntu [04:20] The Debian base install really is very small [04:21] i've noticed arch is pretty fast to boot [04:21] oh, /netbsd/ i found fast to boot [04:21] and VERY small [04:21] It's a good size! [04:22] yeh i'm sick of bloat [04:23] i'm wondering why my netbsd takes up so much now [04:23] oh [04:23] i installed all the source [04:23] lol [04:24] so you're templating images now? [04:25] oh you were before too weren't you? [04:25] i think i did a reinstall straight away [04:26] mercutio: we always templated, yeah [04:26] maybe you should update openbsd at same time :) [04:26] i'm just finally finding time to refresh all our templates, and jpalmer is helping me with centos, so that'll be in the mix now too [04:27] ahh true [04:27] mercutio: ? we already have 5.1 [04:27] oh real [04:27] you didn't when i did my install :) [04:27] i think it was 4.7 [04:27] yeah we didn't have 5.1 right away [04:27] i don't think 5.1 was out when i installed [04:28] ah [04:28] gotta peel myself away from this screen, bbl [05:33] *** xcat has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) [05:33] *** xcat has joined #arpnetworks [06:32] W00t at Debian 6. Next time I won't have to upgrade. 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[13:49] *** dferris_ is now known as dferris [13:49] Services are back. [14:33] Man [14:33] I moved to Gentoo from Arch a few months ago [14:33] *** twobitha1ker is now known as twobithacker [14:33] and now I want to move all of my VPSes over to Gentoo, also :| [14:33] My ARP VPS is FreeBSD for the time being [14:33] 4:33PM up 396 days, 18:41, 4 users, load averages: 0.10, 0.06, 0.02 [14:34] there was a port of Portage to FreeBSD at one point [14:34] interesting [14:35] * kraigu gags a little [14:49] why's that? [14:59] portage...? [14:59] gentoo portagE? [15:01] arenlor: :) [15:02] nice netsplit [15:02] freebsd portage [15:02] not a fan of gentoo generally [15:02] and portage is a violation of poor little freebsd's bits :~( [15:02] (I'm also a snob) [15:02] phlux: what do u like about gentoo? [15:03] kraigu: violation of bits? :) [15:03] * milki doesnt understand -.- [15:03] up_the_irons: yes! :D [15:03] up_the_irons: you know what I mean [15:03] * up_the_irons is still thinking [15:03] it's all about the sanctity of the bits, man [15:03] * kraigu falls under his desk foaming at the mouth [15:03] * up_the_irons hands kraigu more whiskey [15:03] yus [15:04] wait, that's not going on my bill for next month, is it? :D [15:04] i think kraigu needs more whiskey [15:05] I ALWAYS need more whiskey. [15:05] * kraigu is very thirsty [15:05] lol [15:07] what about the freebsd/debian thing kraigu [15:07] debian gnu/kfreebsd i think it is? [15:09] I've seen it [15:09] same here [15:09] it's at least not as gross =] [15:09] haha [15:09] I ... really don't see the point of tying a freebsd kernel to a linux userspace though [15:09] to me, part of the reason you run FreeBSD is for the integration between said kernel and the userspace [15:09] if you want to run linux... run linux [15:10] that said, it takes all kinds [15:11] heh [15:11] yeah [15:11] i must admit i haven't played much with freebsd any time recently [15:11] and the freebsd ports collection was terrible when i used it [15:11] in what way? [15:11] it's like they didn't have stable release system for ports [15:11] up_the_irons: I like the package management - specifically etc-update's way of managing config files that may need updating. [15:11] but they did for kernel/userland [15:11] mercutio: that's the whole point,r eally [15:11] i duno, lots of packages were broken [15:11] didn't work [15:11] dependency hell etc [15:11] mercutio: you *can* stick to just "what was released" with binary packages, but [15:12] (I wouldn't) [15:12] this was before freebsd gave my file system corruption [15:12] if that's your objection then it hasn't gotten any better :D [15:12] me [15:12] nd i switched to openbsd [15:12] which had much more stale pots [15:12] ports [15:12] stable [15:12] haha [15:12] stale too probably i dunno [15:12] yes :D [15:12] I like "stale pots" though ;) [15:12] i don't use many things [15:12] I switched the other way round, from openbsd to freebsd [15:12] i have used the same window manage for 11 years [15:12] I used to have an openbsd desktop [15:13] phlux: ah cool [15:13] +r [15:13] before that i use enlightenment/twm [15:13] i alternated a little [15:13] i dunno why openbsd defaults to fvwm [15:14] twm is a much saner default [15:14] i prefer fvwm actually [15:14] I was fvwm for a few years, then a friend showed me windowmaker, and that's what I use when I have to use a non-Mac desktop nowadays [15:14] back ages ago i tried them all [15:15] window maker, ovlwm or something, fvwm, twm, enlightenment, something box, umm [15:15] kde, gnome, [15:15] you guys are going to hate me [15:15] they were all terrible [15:15] but it's KDE4 here. [15:15] kde was actually one of the best :) [15:15] but it was just too slow on older gaer [15:15] gear [15:15] it at least seemed coherent [15:15] yeah it is slow on older equipment [15:15] then i found ion :) [15:16] but my laptop is powerful enough to handle it fine - so why not do it? :) [15:16] hmm [15:16] my laptop is too slow with linux [15:16] it's fine on windows [15:16] actuall that's before i upgraded the ram [15:16] phlux: dude, I run Macs as desktops by choice, why would I hate you for KDE4? ;) [15:17] linux really desn't work well as a desktop on 2gb ram [15:17] well, aside from your bad taste ;) [15:17] * kraigu hides [15:17] lol [15:17] mercutio: It will with the right WM [15:17] i dunno why but windows handles 2gb of ram better than windos for dektop use [15:17] phlux: nah [15:17] it's mostly uhh [15:17] chrome [15:17] and virtualbox [15:17] and uhh [15:17] all tha other memory hungry stuff [15:18] yeah virtualbox will eat right through 2GB of RAM [15:18] i think it ws mostly chrome actually [15:18] and X [15:18] when I first got this laptop, it had 2GB, but KDE4 ran perfectly [15:18] i don't think i actually use virtualbox on it [15:18] I ran Chromium at that time [15:18] virtualbox on 4gb was still sucky though [15:18] I use Chrome now [15:18] oh i use chromium [15:18] in linux [15:18] i think [15:19] with an alias on starting to make it store it's cache directory in ram [15:19] i have 16gb of ram though [15:19] it didn't seem to make much diff [15:19] I wonder if it makes any difference that I compiled from source, and you (I'm assuming here) compiled from binary? [15:19] chrome is faster under linux than windows for me [15:19] firefox is slower under linux than windows... [15:19] i didn' compile from binary [15:19] i used the provideded packages [15:20] on the ubuntu atp repistory from google [15:20] or whatever [15:20] yeah that's binary packaging [15:20] yeah [15:20] Gentoo's package manager compiles everything from source [15:20] i've built chrome from source on windows :) [15:20] I wonder how much of a difference that makes performance-wise? [15:20] oh god, you poor monkey [15:20] yeh i used to use gentoo [15:21] i dunno i wouldn't mind so much if i had a ssd [15:21] at hte time [15:21] but i found the constant disk grinding in the background distracting [15:21] what i like about gentoo is being able to change options around [15:21] and being able to have multiple options to provide similar functionality [15:21] yeah, USE Flags are amazing [15:21] they take some getting used to, but I love them [15:21] but there were a few annoying things [15:22] like it'd keep swapping between mirrors [15:22] and one of the mirrors was always really slow [15:22] mm and things like gnome took like 6 hours to build [15:22] that is not typically the case anymore [15:22] which would hav been k6-2 350 [15:22] i think? [15:23] [15:23] I built KDE4 pretty quickly (~3.5 hours?) [15:23] no that would have been athlon 1300 [15:23] 1 GB ram [15:23] one hard-disk [15:23] :/ [15:23] 3.5 hours is quick? [15:24] i'd asssume things build slower now with everything shifting to c++ [15:24] and doing templates [15:24] and rtlo [15:24] used to take me ~8h to build a kernel [15:24] and all that jazz [15:24] used to take me 25 minutes to build a kernel [15:24] and like 7 minutes to rebuild a kernel? [15:24] :\ [15:24] spoiled! [15:24] that was 2.1 days? [15:24] oh hangon [15:24] it took me like 45 minutes on my k6-2 [15:24] i had stripped kernels [15:24] it actually varied a lot [15:25] i juse realised [15:25] my k6-2 was my shortest lived computer [15:25] like 2 years [15:25] 1 year [15:26] i wonder what happened to it [15:26] cosi went to a p133 [15:26] and athlon 1300 [15:26] oh [15:26] i ditched the motherboard/cpu i think [15:26] cos my athlon 1300 had same case [15:27] mm i'm stuck in the past :/ [15:27] desktop environemnts haven't really improved any time recently [15:27] mercutio: Windows 8 promises to do the opposite though. [15:27] unity is so ick it's not funny [15:28] arenlor: i'm using winows 8 [15:28] up_the_irons: Was there just a heavy spike on kvr05 for disk? [15:28] arenlor: classic shell [15:28] http://classicshell.sourceforge.net/ [15:28] mercutio: Sadly I support Windows, so I'll have to get it and use it. [15:29] it's not that bad [15:29] basially don't think "click on start bar" [15:29] arenlor: does not appear to be: load average: 3.74, 3.22, 2.76 [15:29] think "windows key" [15:29] that looks like a load spike to me :) [15:29] iostat is way better for measuring than load average though [15:30] A few months ago my last ME client had their computer fry, I've never been so happy to have a client ignore my "always use a surge protector" advice. [15:30] hahahahaha [15:30] mercutio: a rise in load by 1 from 15 minute avg to 1 minute avg is not a spike :) [15:30] arenlor: lol [15:30] up_the_irons: hmm, it was down ~3MB/s and is slowly rising. [15:30] well a spike isn't necessarily for whole minute [15:31] it depends how much activity there is normally [15:31] that said [15:31] there's a little bit of bias in my head [15:31] where 3 is high load" [15:31] and 2 is medium [15:31] 1 is light [15:31] 0.50 is good [15:31] < 0.30 is hardly doing anything [15:32] mercutio: my first kernel was 0.99pl14c on my 386DX-25 ;) [15:32] load average mostly goes up by disk wait though [15:32] Now it's up to 532MB/s [15:32] it's much better at measuring disk load than cpu load [15:32] kraigu: i had a 486dlc40 running os/2 [15:32] kernel sources fit on a floppy disk, but .. yeah, 8 hours wasn't unusual [15:33] but i'd played with linux ages ago [15:33] and the text output was so slow it wasn't ufnny [15:33] I miss OS/2 :( [15:33] 486dlc40 is like 386dx-40 [15:33] that 386 triple-booted linux,os/2,dos [15:33] i think [15:33] Heh, going through spam to make sure nothing is important, brain auto-ignores most of it, somehow sends "Cougar dating" to my concious self to analyze. [15:33] arenlor: you getting desperate? :) [15:34] os/2 with tshell was pretty fast [15:34] much fastr than linux [15:34] mercutio: Lol, must be. [15:34] mercutio: you are not considering the number of cores in the machine. if you have 8 cores, then a load avg of 8 means 1:1 contention. Over 8 means something is waiting, under that, all processes are runnable except ones blocked on I/O (which is generally what raise the load avg) [15:34] mercutio: you cannot say universally, "3" is high, "2" medium, etc... [15:34] it's all relative [15:34] up_the_irons: yeh i now [15:34] i ws giving my bias [15:35] rather tha stating it as fact [15:35] a load of 3 on an 8 core machine is very different than a load of 3 on a 16 core, or 32 core machine [15:35] mercutio: roger [15:35] well yeh it depends how much you're running etc [15:35] that said if you saw load average of 3 inside vps it'd seem high [15:35] you also need multiple processes to generate load average [15:36] i suppose ic ould say that disk i/o average wait time of > 40 msec is high too [15:36] with iostat -x [15:36] Anyone else use dovecot? [15:36] but for that kind of thing to be accurate with virtualisation you need a lot of disk i/o [15:38] speaking of load average, i see a strange peak of like 13 load average [15:38] on a work host :/ [15:38] it's already dissipated [15:38] doo doo odoo [15:38] it wsa never there :) [15:39] What was never there? ;) [15:39] heh [15:39] it's a mail server [15:40] i don't really care if a mail server gets a bit high in load average [15:40] it's a work pc not on arp [15:40] but like [15:40] it's all relative [15:40] like for a web proxy you want to have load average < 1 really [15:40] whereas for a mail server it should be < 20 peak [15:41] cos mail like if you get a mal storm temp [15:41] it's ok to backlog a bit [15:41] and it's better to accept than have the client back off [15:43] */10 * * * * /etc/init.d/dovecot restart >/dev/null 2>&1 [15:43] That should never be a solution. [15:45] hahaha [15:45] what's dovecot doing? [15:46] Disconnecting various folders. [15:46] that sounds bizzare [15:46] i've had very few issues with dovecot [15:46] Yeah, but that little hack solved it completely. [15:46] compared to qpopper [15:46] or cucipop [15:46] Could be that I'm using imaps [15:47] the annoying parts of dovecot are mostly to do with getting the imap folders mapped [15:47] and the namespaces [15:47] but that's syntax etc [15:47] not stability [15:47] never used imaps, but used iamp [15:47] maybe you should try imap? see if it goes away? [15:48] you could always do a ssh tunnel to your imap server if you really want encryption [15:48] mercutio: Eh, my solution is simpler. [15:48] imap clients like to leave connections open [15:48] mercutio: That's the issue I think, if I don't use a folder for a while it disconnects it. [15:49] The client thinks it's open though. [15:49] For whatever reason, restarting it keeps it from disconnecting. [15:50] oh [15:50] that could be a nat timeout [15:50] do ssh connections die randomly? [15:51] Yep. [15:51] erk :/ [15:51] tcp keepalive may help [15:51] i'm assuming that it's in your router thouh [15:52] It's a DD-WRT [15:52] oh [15:52] are you doing double nat? [15:52] Nope, modem bridges to it, it runs as the only NAT. [15:52] weird [15:52] do you use bittorrent or anything else with lots of connections? [15:53] I use bittorrent, but never with a lot of connections. [15:53] mm [15:53] bittorrent can keep state on lots [15:53] even with small number [15:53] Libreoffice isn't the most popular of downloads. [15:53] oh as a seed [15:53] Currently seeding yes. [15:54] # cat /proc/sys/net/netfilter/nf_conntrack_count [15:54] 17 [15:54] heh [15:54] 4 peers total. [15:54] i hardly have any [15:54] # cat /proc/sys/net/netfilter/nf_conntrack_max [15:54] 23400 [15:55] Holy shit, it's been so long that I forgot I asked iTunes to launch, and it's just now coming up. [15:55] i wonder what my adsl modem has [15:56] oh my adsl modem has connection tracking disabled [15:56] yeah i'd say it'd be better to try and fix any nat issues other restarting dovecot every 10 minutes [15:56] but is uppose if it's good enough for you, it's good enough for you [15:57] mercutio: I am lazy ^_^ [15:57] i used to have an adsl modem that's drop ssh connections all the time [15:57] now i just route a /29 through the adl modem [15:57] adsl [15:57] and everything is sweet [15:57] If writing an entry into crontab is all I have to do, then that's all I do. [15:58] and nat on a linux vps for wifi [15:58] putty has a workaround for ssh connections dying btw [15:58] I have code for websites that have /* Ugly, but works, so fuck it */ written above it. [15:59] mercutio: What's the workaround? [15:59] tcp keepalives and seconds between keep alive under connection [15:59] (under putty config) [15:59] How long should be good? [15:59] 150 [15:59] but you can try lower/higher [16:00] it depends what the timeout is like [16:00] basicall if your nat timeout is 3 minutes then 170 should work [16:00] if it's 2 minutes you'd need 110 [16:00] well i mean 119 or 179 should work [16:00] but you never know if it'll get delayed or bad time keeping or somthing [16:00] I like leaving a safety gap. [16:01] that used to bug me to hell and back [16:01] becuase i would be not using a shell [16:01] then i'd type on it and it'd be all like connection reset by peer [16:01] Yep [16:02] but it'd never screw up when it was working [16:02] but going and making a coffee or something and coming back would pretty much always screw it :/ [16:02] Yep [16:02] also some bsds and linux have keep alive in recent versions [16:02] err always keepalive [16:03] Debian? [16:03] # cat /proc/sys/net/ipv4/tcp_keepalive_intvl [16:03] 75 [16:03] i thik it's that [16:03] i've never done anthin with it [16:03] depends on kerenl [16:04] http://tldp.org/HOWTO/TCP-Keepalive-HOWTO/usingkeepalive.html [16:04]