[00:08] *** HighJinx has joined #arpnetworks [00:25] anyone have any experience with the WD RE4 1TB drives? [00:31] *** Ehtyar has quit IRC (Quit: Going!) [00:49] *** LT has joined #arpnetworks [01:40] yeh [01:41] what abou tthem? [01:41] [01:43] they're like the wdc blacks with tler. [01:44] longer warranties [01:44] they're noisy [01:44] err longer mbtf [01:44] i think warranty time is the same [01:45] http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/storage/display/1tb-hdd-roundup-4_6.html [01:45] their performance is very similar to the wdc black [01:46] with slightly higher max iops [01:48] *** hive-mind has joined #arpnetworks [01:53] mercutio: yeah [02:12] the only problem with them really is that they're a bit expensive [02:13] they were especially expensive just after the thailand flooding [02:13] like more so than seagate [02:13] that said for pure iops 15k sas disks are better [02:14] if you don't need lots of disk space [02:14] like the cheetah 15k.7 300gb disks aren't that bad [02:18] newegg (don't nkow many other places in the US) have a price roughly 2x for 1tb re4 versus seagate sas 15k [02:18] but like if you can take 8 hard-disks (say) [02:18] and make do with 1.2tb of data [02:18] you'll get better performance from the sas. [02:18] by quite a lot [02:19] and lots of cases don't take enough hard-disks to get iops up :( [02:20] you need a sas controller of course, but lots of people doing raid on lots of hard-disks use sas controllers anyway [02:23] yeah [02:23] I need the space though [02:23] 1.2 versus 1.6 million hours mtbf looks like [02:23] and big disk SAS, way expensive [02:23] oh you do [02:23] yeh [02:23] 300gb is the sweet spot for sas [02:23] it really dependes if you need iops or space [02:23] the other thing you can do is you can short stroke [02:23] on sata disks [02:23] 1.6M MTBF is a joke if you ask me. I've never had a drive go longer than 30K hours [02:24] heh [02:24] howmany years is 30k hours? [02:24] a bit above 3 [02:24] oh [02:24] i've had disks go for longer than that [02:24] but what i've found is with some old disks once one dies others start dying [02:24] I've tried Seagate, Hitachi and WD. Maybe I'm doing something wrong ;) [02:25] hmm [02:25] well generally speaking people say you should have stable power and stable temperature [02:25] but how hot doesn't really matter unless it's extreme just consistent [02:25] but yeah disks fail [02:26] sas disks fail too :) [02:27] mm one gotcha now days is that lots of new disks do that 4k sector bullshit [02:27] which would be advantage of re4 [02:27] 4k sector bs? [02:27] yeh [02:27] they emulate 512 byte sector [02:27] by doing a read/write cycle [02:28] leading to really bad performance on some setups [02:28] you basically have to make sure all your offsets are 4k aligned [02:28] you hadn't heard of it? [02:30] no, i haven't [02:31] interesting [02:31] it's actually kind of annoying [02:31] if you replace raid set disks with 4k sector size disks you could very well run into performance degredation [02:32] the emulated ness makes it more likely [02:32] *** hive-min1 has joined #arpnetworks [02:33] some things support it better than others [02:33] *** hive-mind has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) [02:34] i think lvm has some stuff to do alignment etc [02:34] fdisk on linux now doesn't use the 1st megabyte of the disk when you do a new partition table [02:37] mercutio: lol, yeah i noticed that fdisk issue; through me for a loop at first... [02:38] up_the_irons: it took me ages to figure out how to fix it [02:38] you press c in fdisk [02:38] yeah i think it's 1 megabyte for ssds/flask etc [02:38] flash [02:38] which may have larger block sizes [02:39] mercutio: i try to use parted now [02:39] was annoying at first, but after you learn it, much easier to script stuff (which I need to do a lot) [02:39] well i normalyl just have partition straight on the underlying file system [02:39] but i had a "legacy" virtual machine [02:39] that had a partition table [02:39] i resized the partition... [02:39] then went to fdisk to delete and recreate [02:39] and it's like GAH [02:40] my problem with having a partition table is that you have to reboot to get the change [02:40] whereas if you just change the underlying volume you can get by without rebooting [02:40] and just do resize2fs [02:40] although don't know if that works in kvm [02:41] parted seemed to wnat to handle resizing itself.. i don't trust it :) [02:42] hah [02:42] well with things that could destroy data [02:42] i tend to like to take the familiar approach :) [02:45] *** bGeorge has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) [02:45] i suppose once you know it's safe you don't fret as much [02:46] yeah [02:48] *** bGeorge has joined #arpnetworks [03:15] up_the_irons: haven't really been looking since it first came back up, but haven't noticed anything. web sites are working and haven't gotten any alerts. [03:17] jlgaddis: roger that [03:17] My own VMs on kvr04 are also operating fine [03:21] i did a full offsite backup this (thursday) morning, i'm using ~4.2GB so it at least hit it disk pretty good for a few minutes while that ran [03:25] nice [04:09] *** hive-mind has joined #arpnetworks [04:10] *** hive-min1 has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) [04:14] *** hive-mind has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) [04:15] *** hive-mind has joined #arpnetworks [04:24] up_the_irons: what I intended to say was that .. you used to stop the process entirely and start it anew, which caused a drop of connectivity, but now with HUP it reloads w/out a connection drop [04:25] toddf: cool.. i don't even remember doing that :) [04:25] but i suppose i did [04:36] it is very clear in my mind because I don't have an expect like thing to signin again after it closes. so i had to manually notice and re-login. [04:37] *** hive-min1 has joined #arpnetworks [04:38] *** hive-mind has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) [06:01] mercutio: scroll down to "SmartAlign" : http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822148840 [06:01] mercutio: is that the 4k / 512 crap you were talking about? :) [06:02] yip [06:02] those disks are real fast for desktop use [06:02] but shit for raid [06:03] likve 170megabytes/sec fast [06:03] i've got 1tb in my desktop and 3tb on my file server [06:03] file server has openindiana which uses more space for small files on 4k sector size but does align properly [06:04] i have like 2tb free so i'm not too concerned [06:14] that said under windows it seeems terrible with multiple simultaneous copies [06:15] which although "generally" sucks.. some disks/filesystems deal better with than others [06:17] http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822136533 [06:17] i think these are still safe [06:17] i know the greens aren't safe [06:18] http://community.wdc.com/t5/Desktop-Portable-Drives/Is-WD2002FAEX-an-Advanced-Format-drive-or-not/td-p/186430 [06:18] this seems to say which drives are 4k [06:18] but could be outdated, and it's only listing green [06:22] have you used wdc blacks with your raid controller before? [06:22] because some people have way more problems with the lack of TLER than others. [06:22] and you can't disable it on wdc blacks now days [06:22] err enable it [06:25] mercutio: ah good info [06:25] mercutio: supposedly the later 3ware 9650SE firmwares deal better with non-tler drives [06:25] and i always load the latest firmware [06:26] i may have a few blacks in my cluster [06:26] non-tler hasn't really been a problem that i can tell [06:28] well i'd go for a black then [06:28] they have 5 year warranty [06:28] i wouldn't go for a year long warranty disk [06:28] but for a desktop i'd recommend that first disk you linked. [06:28] the seagate [06:28] well for a desktop for someone who has a ssd :) [06:29] cos they're quieter than the blacks [06:29] faster sequential [06:29] (seagate has 1tb platter, i think wdc has 500gb) [06:30] well yeh if you'refine with non-tler, you're fine [06:31] you'd find out reasonably easily if you did have problems [06:31] (i've never had problems) [06:41] *** Webhostbudd_ has joined #arpnetworks [06:50] mercutio: the black's are not approved for raid though, afaik. so you can't rma them as easily. [06:50] i definitely wouldn't go for a 1 year warranty disk, that is just sad [06:52] no kidding [06:52] seagate is just sad [06:53] then go for re4? [06:53] it costs more though [06:54] we can rma blacks fien fwiw [06:54] forward replacement [06:55] which reminds me i have a black drive to rma :/ [06:55] mercutio: a black that went bad? [06:57] mercutio: so is the WD rma process decent? [06:59] up_the_irons: it was for me about 4 months ago [06:59] when i had a 640GB go bad [07:00] the only thing that sucks is that they discontinued that model, and ended up giving me a 750GB blue [07:00] I'm not really sure what they normally do when they have a current model which replaces it [07:02] it's pretty disappointing that I only have one hdd manufacturer to rely on, and some of their newer drives aren't so great..... [07:03] Webhostbudd_: sucks :( [07:03] i mean, who do we have left? wd and seagate [07:04] not trying to buy an enterprise drive from seagate with a 2 year warranty [07:04] that's rediculous [07:04] especially considering 90% of their drives get awful ratings and die all of the time [07:05] granted, ratings on drives are mostly RMA's so it is hard to really say which is more reliable [07:06] Webhostbudd_: we have tons of Hitachi's [07:06] i also got burned by Seagate [07:06] Seagate? [07:06] how did seagate burn them? [07:06] WD bought them...... [07:06] i mean we've had lots of seagates fail [07:06] oh [07:06] oh [07:07] our seagates have 5 year warranties though, i gotta get around to rma'ing some... [07:07] but the replacements will have 2 day warranties if i know seagate well enough [07:07] seagate probably learned after so many rma's, to drop their warranty down to 2 years ;) [07:07] yes they did [07:07] "we are looking to optimize our warranty policy" [07:07] haha [07:08] *** heavysixer has quit IRC (Quit: heavysixer) [07:08] they made some pretty funny statements when they made that announcement [07:09] *** heavysixer has joined #arpnetworks [07:09] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o heavysixer [07:15] up_the_irons: it's through your dealer normally [07:18] i got burned by maxtor [07:18] seagate and wd are basically the same [07:19] webhost: the blues are actually pretty good [07:24] maxtor,shiver [07:24] although [07:24] i can't complain all that much [07:24] i have some maxtors still running today and impretty sure they are 14 years old [07:24] i take that back, 16 [07:28] *** pcn has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) [07:29] heh [07:29] i had a really old scsi/esdi disk [07:29] which only worked if you left it on a while before using it [07:29] if you left it on it was fine [07:29] but if you turned it off and on again [07:29] (it was in external enclosure [07:30] it wouldn't work [07:30] but if you left it on for 20 minutes then turned it off/on it'd work [07:30] err if you turned it off and turned it on hours later that is [07:30] it was also bloody huge [07:30] and heavy [07:30] and only 300 megabytes [07:30] and only did like 700k/sec [07:31] but it stayed in that weird state for ages [07:31] and worked fine [07:33] *** fink has joined #arpnetworks [07:35] *** fink has quit IRC (Client Quit) [07:36] that disk must have been real ancient [07:37] ESDI was popular in the mid-to-late 1980s, when SCSI and ATA technologies were young and immature, and ST-506 was neither fast nor flexible enough. ESDI could handle data rates of 10, 15, or 20 Mbit/s [07:37] i don't think it went at 2mb/sec :) [07:39] hmm toshiba have new disks [07:40] i didn't know toshiba made desktop drives [07:47] *** heavysixer has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection) [07:49] *** heavysixer has joined #arpnetworks [07:49] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o heavysixer [08:00] *** fink has joined #arpnetworks [08:22] *** ocm has joined #arpnetworks [08:24] *** ocm has left "Leaving" [08:34] *** ryk has quit IRC (Changing host) [08:34] *** ryk has joined #arpnetworks [08:45] vps.. Y DNS NO WORK ON YOU ANYMORE?! [08:46] *** pcn has joined #arpnetworks [08:49] mercutio: toshiba makes drives!? [08:51] hahaha [08:53] *** LT has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving) [08:56] so apparently the toshibas are just hitatchis [08:56] soon to be wd's [08:59] it sucks that moving drive tech is pretty much dead, we need competition [10:21] *** gcw|mbpro has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection) [10:33] *** jlgaddis has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) [10:38] *** HighJinx has quit IRC (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.) [10:43] *** fink has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer) [10:44] *** fink has joined #arpnetworks [10:52] *** HighJinx has joined #arpnetworks [11:15] *** jlgaddis has joined #arpnetworks [11:15] *** jlgaddis has quit IRC (Changing host) [11:15] *** jlgaddis has joined #arpnetworks [12:05] *** gcw|mbpro has joined #arpnetworks [12:16] *** andol has quit IRC (Quit: leaving) [12:21] *** andol has joined #arpnetworks [12:36] *** Webhostbudd_ has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) [13:03] we need more nicks in here... invite your friends! [13:03] :) [13:03] i could log in again. [13:06] I COULD SIGN UP FOR MORE VPSES TO IDLE FROM [13:07] BUT WAIT YOU COULD INSTALL VIRTUALIZATION ON YOUR VPS [13:07] sup dawg. [13:07] I could invite my bots [13:07] *** twobitha1ker is now known as twobithacker [13:07] Heard you like virtualization. So we virtualized your virtual server, so you can idle while you idle. [13:10] *** heavysixer has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection) [13:11] tooth: jdoe : LOL [13:11] this new server i'm configuring (AMD setup, and man it smokes) supports nested virtualization. I'll be offering beta accounts soon. [13:14] so you can offer a virtualized server to someone, who can in turn, virtualize themselves... [13:17] Gimme! Gimme! Gimme! :) [13:18] sounds neat. [13:55] *** toddf has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) [14:41] *** heavysixer has joined #arpnetworks [14:41] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o heavysixer [15:40] *** toddf has joined #arpnetworks [15:40] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o toddf [15:47] up_the_irons, I just submitted an upgrade request for my VPS. No hurry though. [16:09] *wink* [16:22] *** Webhostbudd_ has joined #arpnetworks [16:25] *** Webhostbudd has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) [16:34] *** fink has quit IRC (Quit: fink) [16:44] *** heavysixer has quit IRC (Quit: BAMPF!) [16:49] *** gcw|mbpro has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) [16:54] *** easymac has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection) [17:51] *** gcw|mbpro has joined #arpnetworks [17:51] *** dr_jkl has quit IRC (*.net *.split) [17:54] *** Webhostbudd_ has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving) [17:57] *** Webhostbudd has joined #arpnetworks [17:58] *** dr_jkl has joined #arpnetworks [18:30] *** gcw|mbpro has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) [18:30] *** fink has joined #arpnetworks [19:36] *** gcw|mbpro has joined #arpnetworks [19:49] *** HighJinx has quit IRC (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.) [21:37] *** easymac has joined #arpnetworks [21:54] *** gcw|mbpro has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) [21:54] *** gcw|mbpro has joined #arpnetworks [21:55] up_the_irons: Any eta on my upgrade? [21:56] *** arenlor has joined #arpnetworks [22:17] *** fink has quit IRC (Quit: fink) [22:32] *** gcw|mbpro has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) [22:32] *** gcw|mini1 has joined #arpnetworks [22:52] *** HighJinx has joined #arpnetworks