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[10:19] *** toorop has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) [10:26] *** toorop has joined #arpnetworks [10:33] *** heavysixer has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection) [10:35] *** heavysixer has joined #arpnetworks [10:35] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o heavysixer [10:42] *** HighJinx has joined #arpnetworks [10:56] *** fink has quit IRC (Quit: fink) [11:14] *** fink has joined #arpnetworks [11:19] *** gcw|mbpro has joined #arpnetworks [11:38] *** fink has quit IRC (Quit: fink) [11:57] *** heavysixer has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection) [12:08] *** heavysixer has joined #arpnetworks [12:08] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o heavysixer [12:59] *** fink has joined #arpnetworks [13:53] woo, 73 people in here, i think that is a record [13:54] glad to be a part of the count [13:54] * tooth feels important [13:58] three of us have even spoken in the last 24h! :D [13:58] that works out to a minimum of $730/month in subscription fees [14:07] *** skynet-2000 has quit IRC (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in) [14:21] hah [14:26] up_the_irons: do you have any windows customers? [14:26] or is there anything that would prevent a windows customer? [14:37] "you want me to...shell....to install? " [14:40] jdoe: no windows customers, but theoretically it should work on KVM/QEMU with a regular ISO [14:43] *** heavysixer has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection) [14:44] *** heavysixer has joined #arpnetworks [14:44] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o heavysixer [14:47] danke, passing that along. [14:52] *** fink has quit IRC (Quit: fink) [15:01] *** himuraken has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) [15:13] *** himuraken has joined #arpnetworks [15:21] *** gcw|mbpro has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) [15:31] *** gcw|mbpro has joined #arpnetworks [15:32] jdoe: fyi, the thing with Windows is, if the customer doesn't have their own license, then I have to shell out like $4K to MS for their 'Data Center' license, which, is totally not cost effective unless I'm selling lots of them [15:37] up_the_irons: yeah, I expect he would be providing it. [15:37] *** skynet2000 has joined #arpnetworks [15:37] *** skynet2000 is now known as Guest88276 [15:38] *** fink has joined #arpnetworks [15:39] and then you have windows customers. [15:39] :-\ [15:52] their money spends same as anybody else's [15:56] *** fink has quit IRC (Quit: fink) [15:57] *** Guest88276 is now known as skynet-2000 [15:57] *** skynet-2000 is now known as Guest52621 [16:09] ~. [16:09] er, yeah. [16:19] *** Ehtyar has joined #arpnetworks [16:50] *** sako has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) [17:00] up_the_irons: <3 [17:00] nbd, js [17:00] also nohomo [17:01] *** amdprophet has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) [17:04] I'm considering moving my FreeBSD VPS to Gentoo :\ [17:06] wat [17:06] why? [17:06] binary package got you down? [17:06] * qbit ducks [17:07] I don't use binary packages on either of those [17:07] I just prefer Gentoo's portage to FreeBSD's [17:07] =.= [17:07] don't the ports on freebsd build the exact same package? [17:08] *** amdprophet has joined #arpnetworks [17:08] It's the way they're managed. [17:08] FreeBSD can be quite disorganized, and the quality assurance has gone downhill. [17:19] mmm [17:19] i am not too familiar with freebsd's ports [17:19] might i suggest the fantastically organized openbsd ports system? [17:20] (that's unsupported unless you have X11 installed) [17:21] OpenBSD is the worst, haha [17:21] I prefer FreeBSD to all of the BSDs [17:21] and that's cute that you think gentoo's port system has QA :P [17:21] openbsd is the worst? [17:21] sir [17:21] jdoe: It does. People work very hard to ensure that the stable branches are exactly that. [17:21] sir [17:21] i disagree! [17:22] * mike-burns eats popcorn, watches [17:22] jdoe: Not the Gentoo developer's fault you used ~arch and installed untested packages. [17:23] hell yeah, you fuck that strawman up! [17:23] keep fuckin that chicken! [17:23] CaZe: i love my grinder! [17:25] *** amdprophet has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) [17:27] *** fink has joined #arpnetworks [17:28] srsly tho.. openbsd ports are awesome [17:29] phlux: what makes you prefer freebsd to all other bsd's ? [17:29] phlux: what's so great about freebsd [17:30] *** himuraken has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) [17:30] Honestly just familiarization [17:30] OpenBSD just felt strange and awkward for me. [17:31] cool [17:31] phlux: jails is the killer feature for me [17:36] *** portertech has quit IRC (Read error: Connection timed out) [17:42] *** himuraken has joined #arpnetworks [17:43] *** portertech has joined #arpnetworks [17:44] i like openbsd :) [17:48] *** portertech has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) [18:21] *** rVn has joined #arpnetworks [18:21] How long for get vps activate? [18:24] up_the_irons tends to activate them at night. Should be within 48 hours, likely much much sooner. [18:54] Heh, I always love people arguing over BSDs, Linux users know best, just buy a toaster and run NetBSD :P [19:02] *** HighJinx has quit IRC (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.) [19:12] we decreased our turn-around time on new orders to be 24 hours or less [19:12] rVn: ^^ [19:12] ok [19:12] rVn: i happen to be around, so if you order now, I can get it to you within the hour. I'm signing off around 20:15 PST [19:13] I put the other right now :) [19:13] :) [19:14] So someone combined "butthurt," and "umad?" today and said "u buttmad?" and I found it hilarious. Am I late to the party on this? [19:16] phlux: It depends, are you >12, if so, you probably shouldn't find it hilarious, but it's okay that you didn't know about it. [19:17] Heh, I'm 23. [19:17] Not sure what my sense of humor does to offend you to the point of insulting me, but I'm glad to see there's someone younger than me in the channel. [19:17] up_the_irons: You need to have a referal link system so that I can know how many of the people I send your way actually sign up. [19:18] phlux: I'm 23 lol. I said, probably shouldn't, not absolutely shouldn't. [19:18] I find shit funny that I should in no way find funny at my age. [19:19] Everyone is all riled up in here tonight. [19:19] mike-burns: I'm not, I just had home made peach ice cream ^_^ [19:29] Sent up_the_irons :) [19:29] * up_the_irons hands everyone a cookie [19:29] You trying to make us fat? [19:29] no, it's just that, have you ever stayed mad after someone gives you a cookie? [19:29] up_the_irons: What's the value? [19:29] heh [19:29] i can't eat if i'm actually mad [19:30] rVn: tnx! [19:30] too much adrenaline. [19:30] i think in text people can seem madder than they are :) [19:30] up_the_irons: I generally get pissed when I'm given a cookie from a site that I didn't visit, but I have cookie control/blocking going. [19:30] arenlor: referral link; yeah it's on the todo list... [19:30] *** arenlor has quit IRC () [19:31] * up_the_irons wonders if arenlor missed the point [19:34] i think he was trying to make a joke :) [19:35] maybe *I* missed the point ;) [19:36] mm up_the_irons is there any plan to upgrade kvm version sometime? [19:36] i think the openbsd mpbios issue got resolved [19:37] *** arenlor has joined #arpnetworks [19:37] mercutio: i have a new server built with a newer distro + kvm; i'm hoping to get that online some point soon [19:37] And THAT is why I wish programs would be required to get your permission before rebooting your comptuer >_< [19:37] mercutio: it still has to go through all our QA [19:37] ahh [19:37] arenlor: LOL [19:38] well i'd be keen to beta it [19:40] mercutio: ask me about it in Sept. [19:41] i'll let you test one [19:41] How's everyone doing this fine evening? [19:41] awyeah: SSDD, you? [19:42] rVn: welcome email sent just now [19:42] Not bad. [19:42] awyeah: SSDPoP [19:42] ok [19:42] SSDPoP [19:42] ? [19:43] ssdd? [19:43] I don't get it. [19:43] :/ [19:43] All these acronyms the kids use today [19:43] DUI [19:44] SSDD == Same Shit, Different Day. Stephen King came up with it. [19:44] AWOL [19:44] mercutio: Ah, you're from the East Coast. [19:44] arenlor: i'm not actually [19:44] why do you have a different acronym whre you are ? [19:44] oh, lol [19:44] *** portertech has joined #arpnetworks [19:45] mercutio: /whois suggests you're a Kiwi? In America on the west coast it's DWI and on the east DUI. [19:45] ahh [19:45] yes i am from nz [19:48] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drunk_driving_law_by_country [19:48] curiously new zealand and the united states have the highest allowed levels of alcohol. [19:48] mercutio: Would have thought Australia... [19:49] we still say DUI in CA [19:49] australia is lower [19:49] awyeah: SSDPoP = Same shit, different pair of pants [19:49] australia is 0.05 [19:49] and new zealand and the us are 0.08 [19:49] mercutio: wow, 0.05 is pretty low [19:49] up: you should see some of the other ones [19:50] norway 0.02% [19:50] jamacia: 0.035% [19:50] Yeah, Norway only allows you the alcohol from a pickled herring. [19:50] ok Thanks up_the_irons, is there a tuto to explain how rdns work? [19:50] ukraine: 0 [19:51] lithuania: 0.04% [19:51] In Ohio, the legal limit is 0.08, but at 0.02 the cops have some leeway [19:52] we have lots of accidents due to sleep deprivation or alcohol. [19:52] An Australian Federal Government Study in 2000 concluded that a person driving after been awake for over 17 hours had a risk of crashing equivalent to the Australian blood alcohol content of 0.05% . [19:53] curious [19:53] Yeah, we have 24 hours with our limit. [19:54] ou're not allowed to be awake for 24 hours? [19:54] Y [19:54] i've driven after being awake for more than 17 hours. [19:54] mercutio: No, I mean that being awake for >24hr is like having the BAC of America or NZ. [19:54] rVn: no tutorial [19:54] rVn: sorry [19:54] oh [19:54] i think it varies a lot [19:55] like if i stay awake a long time i can have lapses in concentration [19:55] rVn: If you need help let us know though. [19:55] mercutio: Driving after being awake >3 days is really interesting. [19:55] arenlor: on drugs? [19:56] how do you stay awake for 3 days? [19:56] when i used to not sleep much i always walked [19:56] mercutio: Insomnia. [19:57] Does anyone here run BSD on a desktop system? [19:57] do you start seeing stuff? [19:57] awyeah: i used to [19:57] maybe i should again [19:58] but my video card doesn't work :( [19:58] cos it's ati [19:58] work with anything better than vesa [19:58] heh [19:58] it's buggy under linux too [19:58] I've always had similar problems. So I run Linux instead :( [19:58] i have radeon 7850 [19:58] so i can play games in windows.. [19:58] open source driver still doesn't support it, and binary driver under linux seems to corrupt the screen [19:59] on the right hand side [19:59] mm [19:59] mercutio: I can start to see stuff after long enough yes. [19:59] i used openbsd as a desktop from around 2001 through 2005? [19:59] i use windwos as a desktop most of the time now and putty and tmux [19:59] ATI sucks, I suggest an Intel for use with Linux. [19:59] yeh [20:00] uhh i have another computere here with intel [20:00] but i need a displayport cable [20:00] cos my monitor only has dvi+displayport+vga [20:00] or a kvm switch [20:00] vesa is hell slow [20:01] awyeah: one cavet with openbsd is that it runs out of ptys if you open too many shells at once [20:01] you have to bump up maxusers. [20:01] if you use 50+ shells [20:01] you run into issues pretty quickly. [20:01] * arenlor is a Debian. [20:01] but i suppose maybe that's not so common for other people. [20:01] check out "notion" as a window manager. [20:02] it is a fork of ion3 [20:02] it lets you run lots of workspaces with lots of shells in a nice way [20:02] and it doesn't make you continuously drag windows around to get htem out of the way [20:02] arenlor: i started on debian :) [20:02] desqview .. os/2... debian.. [20:03] dselect was pretty atrocious. [20:03] apt-get did make things a bit better [20:03] (i started before apt-get was around) [20:03] What are these "windows" of which you speak? I see only green text on a black background. :P I tend to use mainly CLI for everything. [20:03] arenlor: ahh, i use to use svgatextmode [20:03] and i changed my keyboard mappings to get more virtual desktops [20:04] mapped the numeric key directly to consoles. [20:04] I administered a few OS/2 boxes at my last job. [20:04] and modifiiers to more [20:04] They're still in production. [20:04] OS/2 Warp 4.0. [20:04] i wonder where the map is.. it's pretty simple though [20:04] and you can get like 50+ shells.. [20:04] * jpalmer still has 6 fbsd 2.2.8 machines in production. [20:04] err 2.2.6 [20:04] mm [20:04] 2.2.8? No shit. [20:04] 2.2.6. [20:04] i also hacked up a getty [20:05] so you could pass it a parameter to start a program [20:05] 2.2.5 was the first version I ever used. [20:05] and just press enter to start it [20:05] or you could start a shell in a certain directory [20:05] awyeah: we've come a long way since those days, eh? [20:05] so i had like 4 5 6 7 8 9 [20:05] starting in ~/dl [20:05] damn right [20:05] alt-1-2-3-4-5-6-7-8-9 starting in ~/src [20:05] awyeah: these machines are point of sale, no net connectivity. so, they only get replaced when the physical hardware dies [20:06] ah [20:06] err 4 5 6 1 2 3 [20:06] and 7 8 9 were starting links [20:06] going to a web page [20:06] but yeah it worked quite well [20:07] jpalmer: BOFH has a few suggestions as to how to make a machine die. [20:07] I've always been afraid to use debian. [20:07] awyeah: os/2 2.1 through 4.0 are pretty similar [20:07] I like my desktop systems to not be hard. [20:07] awyeah: Why? Debian is cool. [20:07] awyeah: i used it because things were free [20:07] i hated how there was no src to things in os/2 [20:07] but i ended up moving to slackware [20:07] So I've always used ubuntu on my desktop, but 12.04 just isn't great. So I'm switching to Mint. [20:08] awyeah: umm just don't use unity [20:08] I've been running Mint in a VM on my mac, it's pretty smooth. [20:08] use notion [20:08] arenlor: I have no interest in making them die. I'm 100% hands off until there is a physical hardware issue. and to have them still running after all these years in a harsh (bar/nightclub) environment is freaking impressive. [20:08] notion is more awesome than awesome [20:08] (awesome is a slightly similar concept, but not done as well) [20:08] awyeah: Just swim up the stream, get Debian next. [20:08] with notion you press f2 to get a shell [20:08] f3 to execute a program [20:08] f4 to ssh to a host [20:09] jpalmer: Is it a decent nightclub? [20:09] alt-enter to make a window fullscreen [20:09] alt-1 to alt-0 for virtual desktops [20:09] arenlor: yeah. one of the largest in the area [20:09] it's all pretty simple [20:09] and you don't need to use mosue [20:10] jpalmer: Nice, glad to see them still running then. [20:10] except for web browsing [20:10] and cutting and pasting [20:10] arenlor: when I say harsh env.. it's an open air restaraunt/bar/nightclub on a saltwater harbor. [20:10] mercutio: Tabbing, ctrl+x, ctrl+c, ctrl+v, ctrl+a, shift+arrow [20:11] arenlor: ^c/^v doesn't work in mayn programs [20:11] jpalmer: Ooh, sounds awesome. [20:11] it doesn't work in xterm. [20:11] got X cut and paste is a nightmare anyway [20:12] i use windows a lot though now [20:12] so i keep pressing right mouse button to paste when i use X [20:12] * arenlor uses Gnome for that stuff [20:12] it's kind of embarassing [20:12] it's like coming out as an alcoholic. [20:13] hmm [20:13] gnome 2 or 3? [20:13] mercutio: 2 for now, may touch 3 once I trust it's not insane. [20:13] i always seem to end up having issues with managing my windows in gnome [20:13] but i have a small monitor i suppose [20:14] but like not only is there no auto layout [20:14] but it seems even harder to run multiple windwos than windows/ [20:14] like no grouping? [20:14] so once you have heaps of windows open you have to rummage to find them [20:15] mercutio: I'm not sure what you mean. [20:15] like it makes each "window" smaller and smaller on the taskbar [20:15] as you open more and more windows [20:15] and it doesn't group them under one window class [20:15] so you don't go to chrome then see a list of your chrome windows [20:15] instead it shows you the first few letters of the title [20:15] it's gone daddy gone, the love is gone.. [20:16] and you have to cycle through them all [20:16] tbh, gnome hasn't progressed much since gnome 1 [20:16] for basic desktop [20:16] mercutio: I can't remember where that option is, let me get a vnc server running real fast. [20:16] it still feels sloppy [20:17] mercutio: That's because it's made for people who like the terminal. [20:17] I haven't used an X env on a unixy machine in forever. I should consider running fedora or something dual-boot style on my macbook pro [20:17] jpalmer: Try Parallels. [20:17] If you have enough RAM [20:17] jpalmer: I just hope it's not duel-boot like on Windows boxen. [20:17] Parallels + Lion full screen = swipe between systems [20:18] (off topic) I've set up a new SPAM / AV / etc... killer relay (Postfix, SpamAssassin, etc.. etc..) and I'm amazed at how much spam just zen.spamhaus signals. very nice. [20:18] Parallels will even run your bootcamp partition. [20:18] awyeah: 16gb. but I'd prefer to have it native. if I'm going to do it. [20:18] try [20:18] true [20:18] up_the_irons: it's good for spam- it's phishing that tends to get through [20:18] are you using clamav/ [20:18] up_the_irons: nice [20:19] Speaking of clam. [20:19] It blows on OSX. [20:19] http://www.sanesecurity.com/ [20:19] The realtime scanner breaks all kinds of things. [20:19] Just FYI. [20:19] up_the_irons: Yeah, I just wish I could get spamassassin working well with sendmail [20:19] up_the_irons: is that your next offering? pointing our MX's to your anti-spam server, and then you filter and deliver to our mail servers :P [20:19] arenlor: run it in procmail? [20:19] I'm not a spamassassin fan. I'll take dspam anytime over it [20:20] mercutio: yeah, clamav too [20:20] heh [20:20] up_the_irons: there's some extra signatures you can get for clamav to cut down on phishing [20:20] mercutio: Haven't looked at procmail, I tend to like the least amount of steps possible. [20:20] mercutio: oh nice.. where? :) [20:20] arenlor: i hate procmail myself [20:20] up_the_irons: that link i just pasted :) [20:20] but there's also an ubuntu package i think [20:21] mercutio: oh oh i c :) [20:21] clamav-unofficial-sigs - update script for 3rd-party clamav signatures [20:21] i think that's the one [20:21] jpalmer: is there a demand for this? :) i could _make_ it into a service [20:22] well speaking from personal experience, if i didn't have to maintain a mail server for work, i'd like a filtered mail service... [20:22] it's a pita now days [20:22] up_the_irons: I was using an anti-spam service until I ran out of money. [20:22] you need dkim signing [20:22] jpalmer: mailroute.info is what i've used for "hands off" email filtering in the past [20:22] spf records [20:22] anti-phishing, anti-spam blah blah blah [20:23] at least zen.spamhaus.org is reliable [20:23] and fere [20:23] free [20:23] sorbs was terrible [20:23] up_the_irons: That's the service I was using. [20:23] up_the_irons: there are several services that already do that. I dunno if there is much of a need/demand ;) I was mostly just kidding [20:24] mercutio: Found the option to group windows in Gnome. [20:24] my gnome iso is still downloading [20:25] mercutio: Next to the windows there is that little dotted bar, right click and choose preferences. The one place no one would think to look. [20:26] mercutio: oh, what was wrong with sorbs? i still have it in my filter, it's decent [20:26] jpalmer: roger :) [20:26] up_the_irons: it's ok as long as you're not blocking immediately on it [20:26] it's got too many false positives. [20:26] mercutio: ah ok [20:26] up_the_irons: If you do make it a service though, let me know. [20:26] they blocked domains for non-spam reasons in the past too. [20:27] arenlor: will do [20:27] http://www.techiehq.net/computing/alan-brown-gets-involved-another-spam-blacklist-fraud-32832.html [20:27] from 2006 [20:27] it may have changed now [20:27] but it was started by a nz'er. [20:28] IP / Name: [20:28] That's the ip of the vhost? [20:28] so it's kin dof well known around nz [20:29] rVn: Where are you seeing that? [20:29] rVn: your ips are listed under "IP Assignments" [20:29] rVn: it's the last number in the octet [20:30] if your IP is 10.0.0.1, you put "1" for "IP / Name" [20:30] up_the_irons: I'm doing it a strange way then. [20:31] Or maybe not. [20:31] ok, I got it [20:31] thanks [20:31] rVn: np! [20:31] arenlor: it won't accept anything besides what is in your subnet [20:31] I've often thought about setting an rbl of sorts. a bit different than most. [20:32] up_the_irons: When I go into the edit thing, it has the full arpa name under ip/name [20:32] jpalmer: how'd it be different? [20:32] I'm blanking, RBL ==? Romani Black List? [20:32] aren: remote block list. [20:33] essentially, setup a mailserver that accepts all mail sent to it. but all mail gets delivered to a script that adds a DB entry for a limited time. [20:33] err [20:33] realtime blackhole list [20:33] jpalmer: So I couldn't send you two emails really quickly? [20:34] automated mail sanners would see it as an "open relay" (even though it doesn't really relay) and try to pump a ton of spam through it. possibly even have the option of people using it as their MX records for domains that should never recieve legit mail. [20:34] but it woudln't do anything with it? [20:34] jpalmer: Ah, a honey pot. [20:34] arenlor: in essence, yes. [20:35] mercutio: it'd add the offending server to the DB, which would power the RBL [20:35] arenlor: a honeypot on a large scale. [20:36] Mm in Windows: Create a folder on your desktop named: GodMode.{ED7BA470-8E54-465E-825C-99712043E01C} [20:36] jpalmer: what i want to do is actualyl accept delveries often [20:36] but be able to backtrack [20:36] and mark as spam [20:36] when it seems like they're definitely spam [20:36] like if 20 users get the same email [20:36] CastleCops had that idea. [20:37] so some kind of suspended delivery [20:37] mercutio: popular mailing lists could easily violate that ratio [20:37] but i think the biggest problem is that mailsin [20:37] yeh [20:37] spamcop has similar. [20:37] the biggets problem is mailin glists :) [20:37] i was using assp [20:37] and my mailing lists kept bouncing [20:37] and it's like GAH [20:37] well... time for bed. later! [20:37] because some mailing lists have spam on them [20:37] and it was rejecting the mailing list posts with spam [20:37] jpalmer: interesting [20:37] rather htan accepting [20:37] so now days you have to kind of accept a lot of mail and trash it even if it's spam [20:38] the flaw in all of the "spamcop" RBL's, is they depend on the user. and users are idiot.s. "I signed up for this mailing list.. can't figure out how to unsubscribe, so now it's spam!" [20:38] there's no way to say "you are not bad, bu thtis message is bad" [20:38] jpalmer: openbsd, linux net-dev, nanog all have considerable amounts of spam on them [20:38] like real spam not just a bad rept [20:39] * arenlor misses Castle Cops [20:39] mercutio: I'm talking about any of the "report this as spam" lists. the biggest flaw in them, is depending on the user [20:40] jpalmer: yeh [20:40]