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| Who | What | When |
|---|---|---|
| *** | EhtyarWRK has quit IRC (Quit: Never look down on someone unless you're helping them up.) | [00:23] |
| plett | Huh? I have higher latency to ARP than maxamillion did, and VNC is fine for me. I can't see that he's going to be happy anywere, especially since 82ms of his 116ms ping times were internal to his WiMAX provider. | [00:26] |
| bob^^ | same here, i'm always 170-180ms (UK) and VNC works fine | [00:29] |
| DDevine | Woah you get that good from UK?
210 to Australia... It's improved actually. | [00:37] |
| .... (idle for 16mn) | ||
| mercutio | 210 seems very high
it should be more like 170 for australia? | [00:53] |
| bob^^ | DDevine: yeah, 170-180 isn't too bad (about 15ms of that is my broadband connection) | [00:53] |
| mercutio | http://traceroute.optusnet.com.au/?args=www.arpnetworks.com
dsl is about 10 msec latency on top of that i imagine actually 3g could give you 210 too | [00:54] |
| DDevine | mercutio: Could be my wifi. | [01:08] |
| plett | DDevine: I'm also in the UK and get 140ms on IPv6 and 170ms on IPv4 to ARP, 15ms of each being my DSL
So bob^^'s latency seems about right from here | [01:12] |
| bob^^ | my latency from work (I work for an ISP) is only 150msec
(that's direct from the core of our network though) and i get 154ms from home on v6 (via an HE tunnel) | [01:15] |
| plett | bob^^: Same here. 150ms on v4 from a machine in THN, 130ms on v6. (I also work for an ISP :) | [01:19] |
| bob^^ | :D
145ms out of our network in THE on v6 :( interesting, the vast majority of that 145ms occurs inside HE's network are you a linx member plett? :) | [01:22] |
| plett | bob^^: We are indeed. AS20712 Andrews & Arnold
Who are you? Do we peer with you? :) | [01:25] |
| bob^^ | i think we do, yes :)
AS25178, Keycom PLC | [01:25] |
| plett | Yep, we have v4 and v6 sessions at LINX :) | [01:25] |
| bob^^ | we do indeed, small world :)
are you going to the next linx meeting? | [01:26] |
| plett | About a month's time? Windsor? | [01:26] |
| bob^^ | yup that's the one | [01:26] |
| plett | I think so, yes. I've registered myself, but we generally don't know who's going until closer to the time | [01:27] |
| bob^^ | i'm down to go too - fingers crossed there's enough of us left in the office :) | [01:27] |
| plett | We're based in Bracknell, which is a 20 min train ride from Windsor | [01:28] |
| bob^^ | ahh not bad at all - we're in Stafford, though I live in Stratford on Avon
bit further for the guys i work with, not so far for me :) if you end up going give me a shout - i'll come say hi | [01:28] |
| plett | Will do :) | [01:31] |
| bob^^ | hang on - was it you guys who had 'the internet' at one linx meeting a while ago? | [01:32] |
| plett | bob^^: Yeah, that would be us :) | [01:34] |
| bob^^ | :) | [01:34] |
| plett | More specifically that would be our MD, Adrian | [01:34] |
| bob^^ | yeah, that's right - he did a talk on v6, was interesting
more specifically about v6 capable CPEs iirc | [01:34] |
| plett | Yes, that's one of our common rants. Everything else in the chain from an end user to (say) facebook is IPv6 capable. It's just their DSL router that isn't. | [01:35] |
| bob^^ | yeah, it's quite frustrating
more frustrating how few ISPs can actually deliver v6 to the house i'm with Be, no sign of v6 yet at all annoyingly | [01:35] |
| plett | They are starting to be produced though. We have a £100+ "Billion 7800N" which works fine with IPv6, but at that price it's not one we can just give away to every new customer | [01:36] |
| bob^^ | i've heard zyxel have quite a bit of v6 capable stuff now including a few home routers | [01:37] |
| plett | They like to say that they have. The difficulty we have getting hold of them says otherwise. | [01:38] |
| mercutio | bob: zyxel are still around?
i thought they made weird modems | [01:38] |
| bob^^ | yeah, zyxel make all sorts of stuff | [01:38] |
| mercutio | weird dialup modems that is
i never see anything zyxel around these days | [01:38] |
| bob^^ | plett: ahh, not tried actually getting one :) | [01:38] |
| mercutio | nor us robotics | [01:39] |
| bob^^ | US Robotics got bought up by 3com
years ago | [01:39] |
| mercutio | ahh | [01:39] |
| bob^^ | :)
that's a name i've not heard for a long time bob^^ digs out his courier | [01:39] |
| mercutio | v.everything | [01:39] |
| bob^^ | :)
mercutio: i just bought a zyxel nas for home (their kit isn't brilliant but it's alright for home imho) | [01:39] |
| mercutio | i've never seen a home nas that was any good | [01:40] |
| bob^^ | this one has two bays and does raid etc - only had it a couple of days but so far so good
not gonna set the world alight with it's feature set or performance, but good enough for me :) | [01:40] |
| plett | bob^^: We have a "ZyXEL P-2612HNU-F1" here in the office for testing, which they sent us this week. It came with an european plug, as they haven't made a UK model yet, required a beta firmware flashing to it to make it even claim to do v6, and then doesn't work. | [01:41] |
| bob^^ | oh, that's promising then! | [01:41] |
| mercutio | speaking of ipv6
whatever happened to the internet having larger muts mtus what with ipv6 having higher overhead and all surely it's time for it to get bumped up a bit | [01:43] |
| *** | LT has joined #arpnetworks | [01:43] |
| plett | It's stupid though, as all the manufacturers of cheap routers use the same chipsets, and use the chipset manufacturer's canned "build me a firmware" GUI wizard thingy. And that wizard has supported v6 for about 3 years now, but nobody ever ticks the box to enable it | [01:43] |
| bob^^ | hah, i didn't know that | [01:44] |
| mercutio | plett: real
maybe they don't do it in hardware | [01:44] |
| toddf | larger address family != larger mtu | [01:44] |
| mercutio | do cheap adsl modems do checksum offloading etc?
toddf: i know | [01:44] |
| bob^^ | our customers are all connected over ethernet so (apart from a few on DSL) thankfully we don't have to worry too much :) | [01:44] |
| mercutio | but because it's using up more overhead
and that it's not in serious production use surely it's about time for mtus to rise in size | [01:44] |
| plett | Yeah. If you've ever wondered why the user interface on cheap routers all look very similar, it's because they _are_ all the same. The "manufacturer" just copies the reference hardware design, cutting as many corners as they can get away with, and then uploads their logo and brandname into the firmware wizard, and ships it :) | [01:45] |
| mercutio | i dunno the few modems i've used the gui on have all been radically different
dlink, linksys, tp-link | [01:45] |
| toddf | mercutio: I think you oversimplify the task at getting everybody to participate in the larger mtu crowd | [01:45] |
| bob^^ | mercutio: jumbo frames would be the only option, and not everything supports them
(assuming ethernet is the technology being used, obv) | [01:45] |
| mercutio | toddf: well i'm not saying it's easy, but it's not easy to get ipv6 going either | [01:46] |
| bob^^ | (and in our case everything core is based on ethernet) | [01:46] |
| plett | mercutio: Cheap DSL modems/routers do everything in software. These days they are a single IC with combined CPU, ethernet and DSL, but there's still no offloading etc | [01:46] |
| toddf | mercutio: there are larger mtus, they're called jumbograms, and if all os's behaved sanely, you'd set max mtu of your hardware, and 'discover' (path mtu) the max mtu available per remote host, end of story
mercutio: IPv6 is pleanty easy, I've been doing it for 10+ years | [01:46] |
| mercutio | toddf: well lots of dsl has mtu < 1500
mss clamping kind of helps toddf: but it's not really serious yet | [01:47] |
| plett | mercutio: PPPoE has a default of 1492, unless you have modern enough kit to support RFC4638 | [01:47] |
| toddf | discovering max mtu is the key to anything greather than and less than standard mtu size | [01:47] |
| mercutio | plett: even in pppoa 1492 is pretty common
ob on and then there's ipsec etc mpls people running mpls on 1500 byte networks etc | [01:47] |
| toddf | mercutio: you can say its not serious, but I use it daily for 90% of my traffic, so however you define serious is up to you | [01:48] |
| mercutio | toddf: 90%?!
what do you do over ipv6? | [01:48] |
| plett | mercutio: Really? My only experience with DSL is in .uk , but here all PPPoA is clean 1500 | [01:48] |
| mercutio | plett: here pppoa is common | [01:48] |
| toddf | mercutio: everything. dns64 / nat64 / even tunnel afs over v6 back to my fileservers, smtp, www, dns, imap, ping, ... etc etc | [01:48] |
| mercutio | but the telecoms provider was routing over pppoe afterwards
you'd think they'd just raise the mtu on the ethernet segments but like when i look at traffic on the net in general | [01:49] |
| bob^^ | that's not particularly straightforward | [01:49] |
| mercutio | lots of people have mtus of 160 etc | [01:49] |
| bob^^ | you'd have to ensure that everyone you connected to ran the same jumboframe size (again, assuming ethernet)
and that all your kit supported it (not all kit supports jumbo by a long way) | [01:49] |
| mercutio | bob: yeah a bit doesn't
maybe it's hopeless but it seems weird to have 10 gigabit ethernet etc around, and 1500 byte mtus and even 100 mbit ethernet could handle bigger mtus | [01:50] |
| bob^^ | increasing mtu would probably be many times more difficult than trying to implement v6 end-to-end :) | [01:51] |
| mercutio | most gigabit stuff handles jumboframes | [01:51] |
| bob^^ | yup you can do jumbo on 100mbit on some kit (extreme networks kit has done jumbo for years) | [01:51] |
| plett | mercutio: Here, the telco is most often BT. They do PPPoA on the tails from the EU to the exchange, and then trunk it over PPPoE in their backhaul network. They use a 1600 byte MTU for that, which easily fits the 1500 MTU + PPPoE header | [01:51] |
| mercutio | plett: well yeh that's the sensible way :)
to my mind the biggest issue with adsl these days is the upload speed though and annex-m isn't supported here | [01:51] |
| bob^^ | that's a problem with more than just adsl | [01:52] |
| plett | mercutio: There are lots of other ways that DSL is deployed, and most of them are less sensible :) | [01:52] |
| mercutio | you can congest it really easily | [01:52] |
| bob^^ | my line is annex m'd but i still only get 1.2mbit up | [01:53] |
| mercutio | bob: real
bob: i get 1.2 mbit up without annex m | [01:53] |
| bob^^ | exactly
it's not as good as you'd think | [01:53] |
| mercutio | what do you get without annex m? | [01:53] |
| bob^^ | i actually need to re-route some cables here, only recently moved in to this flat and the phone point is miles away from the modem (no power near the phone point)
just under 1mbit | [01:53] |
| plett | mercutio: bob^^ said he is on Be at home. They don't use PPP at all. The ethernet coming out of the DSL modem goes straight onto your LAN, and the default gateway for your desktop machine is on the other end of the cable in the exchange. | [01:53] |
| mercutio | bob: i have the same problem
so i'm using extension cable | [01:53] |
| bob^^ | indeed plett | [01:54] |
| mercutio | it kills 1mbit off my down sync rate
plett: oh weird | [01:54] |
| bob^^ | Be has been pretty good for me so far - we use them sometimes (buying through Cerberus) for backup links in work | [01:54] |
| mercutio | so it's like bridged plett?
like cable etc usually is | [01:54] |
| bob^^ | i did actually consider going with AA plett :) | [01:55] |
| plett | bob^^: Good good :) | [01:55] |
| bob^^ | for the amount my line is used it was a little pricey though :(
(bandwidth hungry housemate0 | [01:55] |
| mercutio | bob: you "needed" it though? | [01:55] |
| bob^^ | ? | [01:56] |
| mercutio | oh it's used a lot you mean?
i thoughtyou meant it was hardly used | [01:56] |
| bob^^ | oh no, my broadband is pretty heavily used
i use a lot of upload (i back everything up to a colo box at work, etc) | [01:56] |
| plett | mercutio: I don't know much about how cable is set up. I didn't think it bridged the EU's LAN out to the cable head-end, at least not here in .uk | [01:57] |
| mercutio | plett: here they used to have one huge big arp domain | [01:57] |
| bob^^ | i used to have cable in my old flat | [01:57] |
| mercutio | enough to overload most routers
well most of the shit routers that people tend to use the ones that top out < 30 mbit there's no cable reselling here but ther eis for dsl so cable is expensive but better technology ilke i think they upgraded to docsis 3 | [01:57] |
| bob^^ | cable here is priced similarly to dsl on average but we only have one cable provider and no resellers | [01:58] |
| mercutio | i don't know why there's so many people keen on ftth
when docsis 3 is good and has existing cable cheaper etc | [01:59] |
| bob^^ | not much of the UK has cable | [01:59] |
| mercutio | bob: why are you on dsl then?
ahh ok | [01:59] |
| bob^^ | there's cable in the town i live in
but not down my street | [01:59] |
| mercutio | when i had a little look on the web at cable in UK it looked good
there was virginmedia? | [01:59] |
| bob^^ | that's always the problem with cable | [01:59] |
| mercutio | and like 50 mbit
calbe | [01:59] |
| bob^^ | yeah, that's it
yup | [01:59] |
| plett | mercutio: What makes you think cable is a better technology? | [02:00] |
| bob^^ | it's a good service actually - i used to have the 20mbit cable product, worked great | [02:00] |
| mercutio | plett: then what? | [02:00] |
| plett | I assumed you meant better than DSL | [02:00] |
| mercutio | oh cable is more reliable than dsl
like most people have old shitty wiring line faults etc are common dsl routers are usuaally shit | [02:00] |
| bob^^ | cable has those issues too tbh | [02:01] |
| plett | Ahh. Okay | [02:01] |
| mercutio | and break reasonably often
yeah it doesn't seem to be as often and it can support higher bandwidth | [02:01] |
| bob^^ | twice i had to have engineers out to 'fix' the coax between my house and the street cab | [02:01] |
| mercutio | bob: oh real?
i've had cable twice err three times four times? shit | [02:01] |
| bob^^ | but in 6 years total of DSL, had an engineer out once and he had to replace the line... because.......... | [02:01] |
| mercutio | i've moved around a lot | [02:01] |
| bob^^ | (And this is a great story) | [02:01] |
| plett | bob^^: To be fair, no copper in a cable network is going to be much older than 1960. I've seen phone lines that must be 100+ years old :) | [02:01] |
| mercutio | anyway, the only problems were with the isp doing transparent proxying
and with the aforemented arp domain issues | [02:01] |
| bob^^ | there was a fracture somewhere in my line - on hot days the cable expanded and for some reason the fracture 'fractured more' and i lost sync | [02:02] |
| mercutio | whereas i've had dsl in multiple places too | [02:02] |
| bob^^ | so during the summer there were afternoons where i'd get no service :) | [02:02] |
| mercutio | and had problems with drop outs line noise, problems when it rains etc etc | [02:02] |
| bob^^ | plett: very true - and cable won't have the MK-style alumninium lines either ;)
ripping off the bell wire here can be a big improvement | [02:02] |
| mercutio | and docsis 3 can do 100mbit+ | [02:03] |
| bob^^ | ftth can do anything at all though | [02:03] |
| mercutio | ftth is expensive though | [02:03] |
| plett | bob^^: Ironically, it's the older phone lines that are more reliable for DSL - over the years as copper prices have increased, the wires have got thinner and thinner :) | [02:03] |
| bob^^ | fttc i agree though i don't really see the point - surely easier to concentrate on ftth | [02:03] |
| mercutio | it costs a lot of money to run the fibre etc
so if ther'es already cable | [02:03] |
| bob^^ | yeah plett, very true! | [02:03] |
| mercutio | it seems pointless to run fibre | [02:03] |
| toddf | i could get 50mbit down 25mbit up with docsis 3 today. I just don't want to pay $384/mo for it. | [02:03] |
| bob^^ | some of our customers are on 50mbit down/50mbit up | [02:04] |
| mercutio | here they're doing vdsl
which uhh | [02:04] |
| bob^^ | ...but they're delivered over straight ethernet so that's pretty easy and cheap to do :) | [02:04] |
| mercutio | hasn't ahppened properly yet | [02:04] |
| plett | mercutio: DOCSIS 3 can do 100Mb, until a second person in the same broadcast domain (typically several thousand houses) wants to use it at the same time. At that point you have to share your 100Mb :) | [02:04] |
| bob^^ | yeah, our FTTC is vdsl for the last mile | [02:04] |
| mercutio | and there were plans for fibre i think, but people are concentrated on available bandwidth rather than performance/reliability/latency/international transit etc etc
plett: it does over 100Mb total though doesn't it? cable here was 15mbit it was always pretty good for those speeds nationally international it was fucked especially if used web because it hit a transparent proxy with small window sizes which tended to get evening peformance degredation etc etc leading to the "bittorrent is fast but web is slow" dilemma. which also happens on congested networks without shaping/qos so peopla re like - can pull line rate with bittorrent - it must be the remote servers. is transparent proxying used in the UK? | [02:04] |
| plett | Depends on the ISP
In our case, we don't do any proxying, filtering or shaping. IP packets in == IP packets out | [02:07] |
| mercutio | i reckon it actually makes sense for international stuff | [02:08] |
| bob^^ | it used to happen on cable here mercutio, but i think they've (mostly?) stopped now
plett: we're the same much easier and fairer imho | [02:08] |
| plett | Indeed | [02:08] |
| mercutio | fairer? | [02:08] |
| bob^^ | you pay an ISP to transit packets from A to B
if they interfere with the packets in-flight that doesn't seem very fair | [02:08] |
| mercutio | hmm
what do you think about explicit proxies? | [02:09] |
| bob^^ | i don't see the point these days
ihmo, there is no need for proxying today | [02:09] |
| mercutio | because cdns are used more? | [02:09] |
| bob^^ | because transit/peering are so cheap and content is normally local through a CDN | [02:10] |
| mercutio | heh
transit is expensive here | [02:10] |
| LT | the things that really eat bandwidth aren't cachable anyway... eg youtube | [02:10] |
| mercutio | i'm in new zealand | [02:10] |
| bob^^ | it's cheaper to just buy more connectivity than to build a proxy cluster
ahh, that would be an issue then :) | [02:10] |
| mercutio | lt: google provide caches | [02:10] |
| bob^^ | actually that's true, they do indeed | [02:11] |
| mercutio | bob: i think there can be higher performance, when it's done proeprly. | [02:11] |
| bob^^ | google will happily drop a cache node in to your network if you meet some criteria and don't mind giving them half a rack and some power | [02:11] |
| mercutio | yaeh it's some amount of sustained traffic, depending on your country | [02:11] |
| bob^^ | i disagree, i'm really not a fan of proxying at all | [02:11] |
| mercutio | lowest in south america i seem to recall
highest in US | [02:11] |
| LT | well they brand it as a cache... but isn't it really just a cdn node? | [02:12] |
| mercutio | LT: it's a cache
it forwards along to the closest peer | [02:12] |
| bob^^ | http://ggcadmin.google.com/ggc | [02:12] |
| mercutio | unless it's already downloaded it before then sends it direct to user | [02:12] |
| LT | blurry.... a cache that only works for google stuff, is kinda different to a traditional cache | [02:12] |
| bob^^ | it's a smart idea | [02:12] |
| LT | I don't see it's much different from an akamai box | [02:13] |
| mercutio | LT: it's pretty similar? | [02:13] |
| bob^^ | yeah, it's not really | [02:13] |
| plett | It's more of a dynamic CDN | [02:13] |
| mercutio | oh
it's the same as akamai just for different content | [02:13] |
| bob^^ | however - if google+ catches on, it might be good for users and for ISPs | [02:13] |
| mercutio | it really depends if you have peering to a google node directly or not
whether it's worthwhile | [02:13] |
| bob^^ | yeah | [02:13] |
| mercutio | ilke don't google peer over linx for you guys? | [02:14] |
| LT | yeah. it's sensible enough... but I got the impression you were talking about sticking all http through a proxy, which is a slightly different beast | [02:14] |
| plett | We already peer with Google at LINX and LoNAP, so already have zero bandwidth costs for traffic to them | [02:14] |
| bob^^ | hehe
i can't remember if we peer with google or not we peer with a GGC on MaNAP (or whatever it's called today) | [02:14] |
| mercutio | they have an open policy don't they? | [02:14] |
| plett | bob^^: Edge-IX, I think | [02:14] |
| bob^^ | yes, we peer with google on linx now too
so yeah, our traffic to google is free too that's the one, Edge-IX :) | [02:15] |
| mercutio | that said
if you were starting to congest your peering link | [02:15] |
| plett | And, for UK networks, Google server content from their Ireland datacentre, so it's relatively low latency too | [02:15] |
| mercutio | you could get google cache | [02:15] |
| bob^^ | mercutio: you'd just get a private interconnect | [02:15] |
| mercutio | bob: oh true
that's another way to go it'd be nice if google was in nz :) | [02:16] |
| bob^^ | they must have a presence there? or in australia? | [02:16] |
| mercutio | australia
nz<-> australia connectivity isn't amazingly cheap it's the same monopolistic cable that runs to US just different segment on it hmm, it is interesting to see different peoples opinions i've been working on an explicit proxy mesh system to accelerate web browsing by routing to a proxy near the end destination and keeping persistent connections open to the proxies reduces latency etc etc | [02:16] |
| plett | In the case of NZ, international traffic is always going to be expensive and high latency, just because of geography and the speed of light. The only way round that is to either serve content from local servers, or do caching | [02:19] |
| mercutio | plett: yeah - but - i've found that NZ<->UK is extra shit
it goes via the US | [02:19] |
| plett | mercutio: It mostly goes via USA?
Yeah | [02:20] |
| mercutio | and so it's like 260 msec minimum
but web sites won't send you more than like 4k of data in one round-trip-time so it's like .. 4k.. 8k. . 16k.. etc etc assuming no packet loss | [02:20] |
| plett | The other route would be via Asia, and taking an over-land route to europe | [02:20] |
| mercutio | but on top of that in my testing, it seems some uk sites are slow etc too
plett: asia routing is /messy/ | [02:20] |
| plett | Indeed | [02:21] |
| mercutio | plett: that's the way planes fly though
so sometime in the distant future it may work that way | [02:21] |
| plett | I'm not surprised that the BGP hop count is lower for traffic via USA than via Asia | [02:21] |
| mercutio | in my testing, i've found that guardian.co.uk is faster on average than bbc.co.uk
but then i've tried curl frm a uk host to bbc.co.uk and i find weird 200 msec delays etc seemingly randomly | [02:21] |
| bob^^ | strange | [02:22] |
| mercutio | even with a 2msec ping or something
oh is that not normal? | [02:22] |
| DDevine | plett: There is a lot of countries in APAC... lots of hops. | [02:22] |
| plett | mercutio: I've not seen that here | [02:22] |
| mercutio | plett: things don't go in a direct line
oh, i only have one uk host so maybe it's that host but latency doesn't seem to spike time curl --compressed http://www.bbc.co.uk/> /dev/null like what's that say for you? | [02:22] |
| plett | real 0m0.083s
user 0m0.004s sys 0m0.000s | [02:23] |
| mercutio | oh that's fast
right now i got 1 second, 113 msec, 130 msec, 60 msec, 131 msec, 130 msec from nz it's way worse though | [02:23] |
| plett | That's from my desktop in the office, which is gig-e or higher all the way to the bbc | [02:24] |
| mercutio | 1.981, 1.920
1981 msec that is for what, 25k of data then you have all the images etc etc | [02:24] |
| plett | From my DSL at home:
real 0m0.179s user 0m0.008s sys 0m0.008s | [02:25] |
| bob^^ | 0.016u 0.008s 0:00.18 5.5%288+1668k 0+0io 1pf+0w
(from work) | [02:25] |
| mercutio | from my proxy is 990 msec, 726 msec
i think bbc has low ttl on dns | [02:26] |
| bob^^ | from home dsl:
real 0m0.315s user 0m0.000s sys 0m0.020s | [02:26] |
| mercutio | hmm
315 msec is ok | [02:26] |
| bob^^ | (i'm using my connection atm to watch f1 free practise over iplayer too!) | [02:26] |
| mercutio | 2 seconds isn't :)
wow your guys times look diff to me curl --compressed http://www.bbc.co.uk/ > /dev/null 0.01s user 0.00s system 7% cpu 0.130 total like mine just shows on one line i suppose that's bash | [02:27] |
| bob^^ | my colo is freebsd and my desktop at home is ubuntu
probably just differences in 'time' | [02:28] |
| plett | Differences in the time command, I would expect. My examples were both Ubuntu | [02:29] |
| mercutio | hmm i get the same on linux and openbsd | [02:29] |
| bob^^ | this was freebsd: 0.016u 0.008s 0:00.18 5.5%288+1668k 0+0io 1pf+0w | [02:29] |
| mercutio | linux being ubuntu
it must be the shell i think i'm using zsh yeh freebsd is hard to read | [02:29] |
| bob^^ | csh on freebsd, bash on ubuntu
not if you know what you're looking at hehe | [02:29] |
| mercutio | yeh i rekcon it's the shell | [02:29] |
| bob^^ | bob^^ loves freebsd | [02:30] |
| mercutio | heh i usd freebsd 10 years ago
for a bit then i ran into probelms with it and switched to openbsd | [02:30] |
| bob^^ | oh, time -p on freebsd should give a POSIX comliant output | [02:30] |
| mercutio | as a desktop
etc etc i went to freebsd cos i thought it was meant to make a better desktop or something | [02:30] |
| bob^^ | nah, no way | [02:30] |
| mercutio | but i actually found openbsd worked better as a desktop even
i shifted cos freebsd corrupted data on me though | [02:30] |
| bob^^ | it's not designed for desktop at all - it's usable, but far from ideal if you want multimedia
yeah, it didn't that'll have been hardware :) | [02:31] |
| mercutio | mm
it was like a k6-2 or somtehing i think it's cos i was using ata66 and it had some timing problem or something but seriously openbsd was a lot simpler than freebsd like i was meant to update freebsd with cvsup and openbsd was cvs | [02:31] |
| bob^^ | openbsd and freebsd are pretty similar from a config point of view | [02:32] |
| mercutio | and updating openbsd proved much simpler | [02:32] |
| bob^^ | freebsd is cvs too - cvsup just makes it easier | [02:32] |
| mercutio | and like i had to setup networking or something | [02:32] |
| bob^^ | (plus there's freebsd-update now!) | [02:32] |
| mercutio | and like manpages on openbsd were MUCH better | [02:32] |
| bob^^ | yeah, freebsd won't hold your hand | [02:32] |
| mercutio | i found freebsd way more complicated
openbed had /etc/rc.conf etc and you could read the files | [02:32] |
| bob^^ | so does freebsd :/ | [02:32] |
| mercutio | and they made sense
then freebsd seemed to do similar things but have like 3x as much stuff | [02:32] |
| bob^^ | :) | [02:33] |
| mercutio | but yeah, i've been meaning to try freebsd again now | [02:33] |
| plett | freebsd-update? Does that mean you can finally do binary updates? | [02:33] |
| mercutio | that i'm more used to it | [02:33] |
| bob^^ | yeah plett | [02:33] |
| mercutio | usd to these things | [02:33] |
| bob^^ | freebsd's had that for a while now | [02:33] |
| mercutio | but freebsd wouldn't run in virtualbox | [02:33] |
| bob^^ | virtualbox had some issues with freebsd but i think they're sorted now | [02:34] |
| mercutio | hmm i think i was trying 8.2?
it was quite recently it may have been a beta hmm maybe i should dl again now i have vmware on this machien aynway i should try netbsd out again too | [02:34] |
| bob^^ | ah, i think it was virtualbox that was fixed | [02:35] |
| mercutio | netbsd confused me a bit 10 years ago i remember | [02:35] |
| bob^^ | yeah, netbsd is not particularly obvious | [02:35] |
| mercutio | but vmware will work out of the box?
i was suprrised that openbsd was obvious tbh | [02:35] |
| bob^^ | yeah - though there were issues with vmware and timing on freebsd | [02:35] |
| mercutio | i like didn't want to try it at first because it was designed towards security | [02:36] |
| bob^^ | no idea if those are fixed, i never actually had them but i know people who did | [02:36] |
| mercutio | and i wanted speed
but i actually foudn openbsd faster than freebsd for simple things like loadign xterms bringing up man pages etc not exactly heavy usage | [02:36] |
| bob^^ | you could tweak freebsd if you had the patience
but in general that isn't needed | [02:36] |
| mercutio | now if xterms come up slowly there must be some kind of hardware problems | [02:37] |
| bob^^ | or a scheduling issue if the box is doing other stuff too | [02:37] |
| mercutio | oh or linux with it's screwed up hard-disk stuff now days | [02:37] |
| bob^^ | or that :)
linux always feels 'laggy' to me compared to freebsd | [02:37] |
| mercutio | have you used linux recently? | [02:37] |
| bob^^ | yeah, i use ubuntu on all my desktops | [02:37] |
| mercutio | i've used it on more than one machine | [02:37] |
| bob^^ | but i don't use it on servers | [02:37] |
| mercutio | and you extract a huge tarball
or mocve lots of files or aynthing on a desktop and it'll drag like hell | [02:37] |
| bob^^ | this ubuntu box has an ssd so i don't really notice disk access now hehe | [02:38] |
| mercutio | like i don't know how they let that happen?
ah this box has ssd too | [02:38] |
| bob^^ | <3 ssd | [02:38] |
| mercutio | yeh ssd is ok
i dunno i also have 16 gig ram now i just upgraded it's crepey in a way | [02:38] |
| bob^^ | this desktop only has 2gb, i REALLY need more | [02:38] |
| mercutio | i got so used to things going really slowly all the time
with linux? | [02:38] |
| bob^^ | yeah | [02:39] |
| mercutio | i used linux ona laptop with 2gb fo ra while
recently | [02:39] |
| bob^^ | it's not bad, it just sometimes feels like it could use a bit more | [02:39] |
| mercutio | it had dual boot windows 7
seriosuly windows 7 was better on 2gb ram than linux by far | [02:39] |
| bob^^ | i've got two spare slots and ram is cheap for another 2gb so i'll order it when i get paid | [02:39] |
| mercutio | like it'd keep going into swap hell
ddr3? | [02:39] |
| bob^^ | i'm also keen to stop this box swapping given it's swap is on ssd
nah, ddr2 i think - this thing is a bit on the old side :) | [02:39] |
| mercutio | ahh yip
that's why i upgraded | [02:40] |
| bob^^ | amd x2 5600+ | [02:40] |
| mercutio | cos ddr3 ram is way cheaper | [02:40] |
| bob^^ | yeah | [02:40] |
| mercutio | i tried just jumpign frmo 4 gig to 6 gig | [02:40] |
| bob^^ | i want to upgrade before ddr2 goes up too much more | [02:40] |
| mercutio | and then i tried using visual studio
i dunno how anyone copes with visual studio it's so resource hungry why not just get new mbd/cpu? you know you can get really cheap sandybridge cpus like there's ones even cheaper than i3 dual core | [02:40] |
| bob^^ | just don't need the extra performance tbh
this thing will do me another couple of years at least | [02:41] |
| mercutio | hmm
lower power use | [02:41] |
| bob^^ | most of my work i do on my laptop which has 4gb of ram anyway | [02:41] |
| mercutio | oh yip | [02:41] |
| bob^^ | and it's all brand new (5 months old or sth) so it's alright for performance :)
i just want to buy an ssd for it nowt oo | [02:42] |
| mercutio | yaeh
it gets like that doesn't it you use non ssd computers and you're like how do they cope and then you realise you got an ssd 6 months ago and had coped for years | [02:42] |
| bob^^ | hehe yeah | [02:42] |
| mercutio | ahh shit
4 gig? i don't know what freebsd file i want | [02:43] |
| bob^^ | yeah | [02:43] |
| mercutio | oh 4gig iso
for freebsd i meant | [02:43] |
| bob^^ | sec
nah - get the mini iso | [02:43] |
| mercutio | what's pc98? | [02:44] |
| bob^^ | it'll download anything else you want during install, saves wasting bandwidth | [02:44] |
| mercutio | is that like win98?
ahh cool | [02:44] |
| bob^^ | nah, it was a pc standard from 1998
no one does it anymore | [02:44] |
| mercutio | i386-bootonly?
except freebsd? | [02:44] |
| bob^^ | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PC_System_Design_Guide
unless you're running on 64 bit hardware, yup | [02:44] |
| mercutio | is 64 bit or 32 bit better for vmware?
it's i5-2500k | [02:44] |
| bob^^ | 32 bits for vmware i suspect
not honestly sure - i don't virtualise much tbh :/ | [02:44] |
| mercutio | so should do either
i386 is probably smaller leaner wtf can't find the dl link oh there http://torrents.freebsd.org:8080/stats.html?info_hash=e86c8124f8c942a3b3bff101b97d908bf26c5b73 i see freebsd is staying professional looking | [02:45] |
| bob^^ | freebsd is pretty professional, it's used by a lot of large corporations | [02:46] |
| mercutio | real? | [02:47] |
| bob^^ | oh yeah | [02:47] |
| mercutio | i thought freebsd had kind of died for some reason | [02:47] |
| bob^^ | yahoo use it for example
ahh everyone says that on slashdot, it's not true at all | [02:47] |
| mercutio | heh i remember people used to say freebsd was using for lots of porn sites
as examples of "heavy traffic web sites" nah this isn't about slashdot it's more i just never hear about anyone using freebsd | [02:47] |
| bob^^ | http://news.netcraft.com/archives/2011/07/08/most-reliable-hosting-company-sites-in-june-2011.html | [02:48] |
| mercutio | i don't hear of much openbsd or opensolaris eitther | [02:48] |
| bob^^ | check out the top 10 most reliable hosts | [02:48] |
| mercutio | using both openbsd and opensolaris at work
(and linux) wow how did windows get on that list? | [02:48] |
| bob^^ | hehe no idea | [02:48] |
| mercutio | i've actually never heard of any of those providers | [02:49] |
| cool it's installing | [02:55] | |
| bob^^ | they're all pretty big | [02:56] |
| mercutio | yeh looked at top 40 and had heard of more of them
maybe just my luck | [02:57] |
| got it installed it didn't even setup ssh hmm | [03:09] | |
| bob^^ | you missed a step during install then
because one of the questions is 'do you want to enable ssh login' towards the end :) | [03:10] |
| mercutio | oh
the installer screwed up because i went to some options page then i tried to eit then somehow it trieed to isntall on top itself so i did exit found it though | [03:11] |
| bob^^ | easy to enable after though
add sshd_enable="YES" to /etc/rc.conf then /etc/rc.d/sshd start it'll generate keys and fire it up | [03:12] |
| mercutio | yeh
but now it won't let me ssh in do you need to create a non-root user? | [03:12] |
| bob^^ | are you trying as root?
ys only linux is stupid enough to let you ssh as root by default ;) you can always edit /etc/ssh/sshd_config to allow root login if you're feeling brave | [03:12] |
| mercutio | i don't think that's stupid | [03:13] |
| bob^^ | or it's a local box or whatever
well what's one username that exists on all unix-like systems? root that's a pretty easy start for an attacker | [03:13] |
| mercutio | i can't su either
gah so i need to add to wheel? | [03:13] |
| bob^^ | if you prevent logins on root then they also have to find the usernaem, which complicates things a lot
yeah you need to be in wheel to su most people will install sudo as soon as they're installed then you don't need to be in wheel | [03:13] |
| mercutio | how do i install sudo?
is there pkg_add ? # pkg_add sudo pkg_add: can't stat package file 'sudo' hmm i suppose it needs to know where it is | [03:14] |
| bob^^ | pkg_add -r sudo
will fetch it remotely | [03:14] |
| mercutio | ahh ocol
ok not too bad | [03:14] |
| bob^^ | or you can use ports (portsnap fetch extract && cd /usr/ports/security/sudo && make install clean) or something | [03:15] |
| mercutio | yeh it said ports tree was over 400 megs | [03:15] |
| bob^^ | (you only need the portsnap fetch extract if you don't already have a ports tree :)
yeah, it's big, but VERY well worth having | [03:15] |
| mercutio | i dunno
you can always download original source tarballs i installed kernel source | [03:15] |
| bob^^ | sticking with ports is a smarter move | [03:16] |
| mercutio | but that was all | [03:16] |
| bob^^ | meh, you won't really need kernel source | [03:16] |
| mercutio | gah
it keeps going to ftp.freebsd.org | [03:16] |
| bob^^ | you can override that, sec
PACKAGEROOT iirc ah, yeah: http://www.rainingpackets.com/pkg_add-specifying-a-mirror-server/ | [03:16] |
| mercutio | no export command? | [03:16] |
| bob^^ | depends on your shell
setenv if you're still in csh chsh -s <newshell> if you want to change | [03:17] |
| mercutio | # pkg_add -r zsh
Fetching ftp://ftp.freebsd.org/pub/FreeBSD/ports/i386/packages-8.2-release/Lates t/zsh.tbz... Done. Fetching ftp://ftp.freebsd.org/pub/FreeBSD/ports/i386/packages-8.2-release/All/libiconv-1.13.1_1.tbz... Done. Updating /etc/shells # zsh zsh: Command not found. | [03:17] |
| bob^^ | rehash | [03:17] |
| mercutio | what's with that? | [03:17] |
| bob^^ | wait are you still running sh? | [03:17] |
| mercutio | oh shit
wow no idea i have zsh now # zsh zsh: Command not found. # rehash # zsh [Fri 11/07/22 22:19 NZST][pts/0][i386/freebsd8.0/8.2-RELEASE][4.3.10] <root@:~> | [03:17] |
| bob^^ | csh
csh needs a rehash to reload paths now do which zsh and chsh -s /path/to/zsh however *however* | [03:17] |
| mercutio | cool
got it changed | [03:18] |
| bob^^ | do not do that for root | [03:18] |
| mercutio | chsh -s zsh rowrked | [03:18] |
| bob^^ | leave root on csh or sh | [03:18] |
| mercutio | why not? | [03:18] |
| bob^^ | because you may note that zsh has probably gone into /usr/local/bin
and not /bin | [03:18] |
| mercutio | yeh it has
so copy it over? | [03:18] |
| bob^^ | as a result, if you end up needing to rescue, you may not be able to mount /usr/local | [03:19] |
| mercutio | i'd rather have a shell that "export" works in
yeh it's just a test system | [03:19] |
| bob^^ | no don't copy it over, just don't use root | [03:19] |
| mercutio | but maybe can find static compile of zsh | [03:19] |
| bob^^ | create yourself a user that has sudo
:/ that's nasty | [03:19] |
| mercutio | mm
i hate prefixed sudo over everything i reckon sudo is less ecure | [03:19] |
| bob^^ | the chance of you needing a recovery shell are minimal, but on a production box it's a really smart idae | [03:19] |
| mercutio | then just using root
that's a dirty linux hack | [03:19] |
| bob^^ | bob^^ shrugs
i find sudo useful when i don't trust people it can be locked down | [03:20] |
| mercutio | hmm | [03:20] |
| bob^^ | giving someone root on the other hand cannot | [03:20] |
| mercutio | i dunno i'd rather not give someone a shell i don't turst :) | [03:20] |
| bob^^ | well of course :) | [03:21] |
| plett | sudo is less secure in that it's just the normal user's password which has to be leaked/stolen in order for an attacker to get root access, rather than both the user and the root password | [03:21] |
| mercutio | i suppsoe there is that | [03:21] |
| bob^^ | but sometimes you have no choice
as long as sudo is locked down, it's handy | [03:21] |
| mercutio | plett: yeh | [03:21] |
| bob^^ | and passwords? keys ;) | [03:21] |
| mercutio | and also it encourages going frmo normal user to root
so if someone hacks into a normal user account they can get root and when it's a box you don't use as a desktop or anything | [03:21] |
| plett | But if you have to give someone root access, doing it via sudo allows you to lock it down greatly, and get a log of each time it's used | [03:22] |
| bob^^ | exactly | [03:22] |
| mercutio | you may as well just ssh in as root
and not as root | [03:22] |
| nesta | I agree that sudo is insecure but I have been reliably informed that it can be locked down pretty tight | [03:22] |
| mercutio | depending on what you're running | [03:22] |
| bob^^ | sudo has its uses
i don't believe in using it all the time (like, say, ubuntu tries to insist on) that's pointless | [03:22] |
| mercutio | now i can set this packageroot i suppose | [03:22] |
| nesta | I have witnessed peoples servers getting 'rooted' purely from sudo.. but then again those people were re-using passwords from public shell boxes on their own private server
go figure :) | [03:23] |
| bob^^ | ugh :)
it's amazing what goes on really | [03:23] |
| nesta | indeed | [03:23] |
| mercutio | option is invoked. An example setting would be "ftp://ftp3.FreeBSD.org". | [03:23] |
| plett | Personally I use sudo all the time on my personal boxes. I am the only user on the box, and my password is a secure one | [03:23] |
| mercutio | hmm
ok that's not so hard now i need to find close mirror | [03:23] |
| bob^^ | plett: i'm the same tbh
it's just me being lazy and not wanting to type two passwords too | [03:23] |
| plett | bob^^: You can set sudo up as NOPASSWD, so it just does it without prompting for your password, if you wish ;) | [03:24] |
| bob^^ | that's how i have it :)
dirty, but i'm quite happy with it on my personal stuff with just me using it | [03:24] |
| mercutio | wtf
vim is installing ruby? and x stuff argh tcl, ruby, hicolor-icon theme python, perl | [03:26] |
| bob^^ | vim-lite
is what you want | [03:28] |
| mercutio | oh | [03:28] |
| bob^^ | and this is why you want the ports tree | [03:28] |
| mercutio | i tried to google | [03:28] |
| bob^^ | you can customise stuff before it installs then | [03:28] |
| nesta | use ports. | [03:28] |
| mercutio | SECURITY NOTE: The VIM software has had several remote vulnerabilities
discovered within VIM's modeline support. It allowed remote attackers to execute arbitrary code as the user running VIM. All known problems wow?! y'know it seems pretty snappy other than being a bit confusing ok suppose should use ports tree | [03:28] |
| nesta | mercutio: it is very easy, just use this -> http://pastebin.com/XBCqFdWe ... save it as /etc/csup-ports.conf
then run | [03:31] |
| mercutio | i found a tarball | [03:32] |
| nesta | csup /etc/csup-ports.conf
nah just do this | [03:32] |
| mercutio | that's not cvsup is it?
i have bad memories of cvsup | [03:32] |
| nesta | no, it is csup
yeh forget cvsup you don'tneed it csup is in base do what I said and it will download the ports tree painlessly :) | [03:32] |
| mercutio | should i extra tarball first?
or not bother? | [03:33] |
| nesta | forget the tarball | [03:33] |
| bob^^ | nesta: are you serious?!
portsnap !! portsnap fetch extract | [03:34] |
| mercutio | ok downloading | [03:34] |
| bob^^ | job done
way quicker too | [03:34] |
| nesta | nesta shrugs
different strokes :) | [03:34] |
| bob^^ | hehe true enough :) | [03:34] |
| mercutio | i dunno i'm not really in a rush
i've got curl and vim and ssh | [03:34] |
| bob^^ | since portsnap arrived i haven't gone back, i love it :) | [03:35] |
| mercutio | what more could i need? | [03:35] |
| nesta | this is why *nix rocks
many different paths | [03:35] |
| bob^^ | exactly
pick what you want and do it the way you like | [03:35] |
| mercutio | actually i wanted tmux
have you guys tried tmux? | [03:35] |
| bob^^ | not personally but i've heard it's good
i still use screen | [03:36] |
| plett | mercutio: What makes it better than screen? | [03:36] |
| mercutio | plett: the code isn't dirty | [03:36] |
| bob^^ | it's in base isn't it? | [03:36] |
| nesta | I still <3 screen | [03:36] |
| mercutio | it doesn't seem to be in freebsd base
it's in openbsd base | [03:36] |
| nesta | no bob^^ its not | [03:36] |
| bob^^ | ah, that's right, it's openbsd that ships with it | [03:36] |
| nesta | mercutio: do you code? | [03:36] |
| bob^^ | there was talk of putting it in freebsd on a mailing list a while back | [03:37] |
| mercutio | nesta a little | [03:37] |
| plett | I've not looked at the source for either, but screen works well enough for me | [03:37] |
| mercutio | i used to code
then i got slack i was trying to do some modifcations to squid today i hate squid's code but like seriously, when code is disgusting it makes me not want to use the program | [03:37] |
| jlgaddis | tmux++
used screen for years, but haven't used it once since i first installed tmux | [03:37] |
| mercutio | actually some gnu code is pretty disgusting
jlg: ditto i just used it in case my shells died normally with screen but with tmux i find myselfa actually using multiple windows | [03:38] |
| jlgaddis | once i got my .tmux.conf how i wanted it, it just rocks | [03:38] |
| bob^^ | i use it to run irssi
brb! | [03:38] |
| mercutio | i liek it how it updates the line at the bottom with what's running in the shell | [03:38] |
| jlgaddis | mercutio: yeah, makes it handy when you're waiting on something to finish
the visual notifications too | [03:39] |
| mercutio | i dunno it just seems like it did what screen set out to do but properly and nicely and cleanly
oh yeah | [03:39] |
| jlgaddis | jlgaddis nods | [03:39] |
| mercutio | like i always know hwen i have mail
cos it'll inverse the colours years ago i used to be a text mode junky and i had a computer without much resources | [03:39] |
| jlgaddis | i still am =) | [03:40] |
| mercutio | and i hated screen with a passion
but still used it because it was handy | [03:40] |
| jlgaddis | i spend probably 90% of my time staring at terminals | [03:40] |
| mercutio | but like you could seriously notice it slowing down and bloating up
back then i was like "why's curses so slow?" i was like used to dos etc where text was fast, then everything in text moed was slow but some things way slowe than others linux 2.1 sped up text mode a lot jlg: oh i actualyl used to use text mode not X with terminals then i shifted to ion and X but mostly so that i could use firefox occasionally it wasn't firefox netscape navigator then mozilla netscape navigator was really gay motif is slow too | [03:40] |
| jlgaddis | yep, on my linux box at home i just use an 80x50 console. when i need a gui (for chrome or something), i fire up awesome. | [03:43] |
| mercutio | it looked better than tcl/tk | [03:43] |
| jlgaddis | i'm a total cli nerd | [03:43] |
| mercutio | jlg: ever heard of svgatextmode? | [03:43] |
| jlgaddis | yeah | [03:43] |
| mercutio | jlg: i rebound my keys
so i could have more virtual consoles like 30 of them and then i had single number pads keys to hop desktops or alt-ctrl modifieriers to get 10 more on each then like i hacked getty to "autoload" programs on various virtual desktops virtual screens i should say so like i booted my computer and up would come 6 web browsing esesions on like 78 9 4 5 6 where 4 5 6 were google 7 was like slashdot 8 was freshmeat, 9 was lwn or something then 1 2 3 would start shells in download directory then like alt-1 to 9 etc would start in ~/src etc etc etc it works well worked in the end i had the getty so you pressed enter to start a shell cos shells took up ram etc and soemtiems i closed them cos i had a puny machine then i wrote my own irc client cos epic/bitchx etc were memory hogs and took up like 2 megs+ god i started ranting there 2 megs memory now days is like nothing | [03:43] |
| jlgaddis | holy hell man, give your enter key a break! =) | [03:48] |
| nesta | hahah | [03:48] |
| jlgaddis | i gotta go into scrollback to read what you said while i was gone for a minute :P | [03:48] |
| mercutio | heh
i wonder what memory use is like these days ben 21805 0.2 0.3 7896 2752 pts/9 S+ Jun19 102:30 epic4 mercutio irc.freenode.net it didn't get much worse | [03:52] |
| jlgaddis | wow, epic4
i haven't seen that name in a long time | [03:54] |
| mercutio | linux bloated up from libc5 to glibc
hmm it's what i used before i wrote my own irc client, and what i went back to it's ok, not wonderful, not terrible i used irssi once a little bit, it actually seemed ok | [03:54] |
| jlgaddis | yeah, i moved from ircii to epic to irssi | [03:55] |
| mercutio | epic, mutt, and vim are probably the programs i've used the longest
i moved ircii, epic, fade, epic my irc client was called fade it was real simple | [03:55] |
| jlgaddis | heh, irssi, mutt, and vim are probably the three i use the most | [03:56] |
| mercutio | like 28k binary or something
used readline and other than that just as basic as you can get pretty much no dcc, etc etc always logged to a file set on command line set nick and server name like in epic just on command line but it managed to make my machien swap less what made you move to irssi? | [03:56] |
| jlgaddis | nfi
it's been a long time ago | [03:59] |
| mercutio | i used it for a brief moment and it seemed to have more sensible keys i seem to recall
gah i'm going to try it now brb | [03:59] |
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| jlgaddis | initially, i think it support for perl scripting | [03:59] |
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| mercutio | i had to type /server irc.freenode.net ?
ben 17165 0.1 0.5 11128 4512 pts/9 S+ 23:02 0:00 irssi mercutio irc.freenode.net and it does use a bit more ram not that it really matters | [04:00] |
| jlgaddis | jlgaddis 1705 0.0 1.1 54532 9064 pts/2 S+ May27 19:17 irssi
i'm in about 15 channels across 4 servers, though, if that makes a difference | [04:09] |
| bob^^ | rob 2938 0.0 1.1 16040 11012 p1 S+ 26Aug10 342:45.11 irssi
three servers and 16 channels total for me | [04:09] |
| jlgaddis | bob^^: heh, reboot often? :P | [04:10] |
| bob^^ | nope
:) what about this one: 12:14PM up 1823 days, 38 mins, 2 users, load averages: 0.00, 0.00, 0.00 | [04:10] |
| mercutio | oh you run one instance for multiple servers? | [04:12] |
| bob^^ | nope, that's just an old box we keep now for uptime records lol
oh you mean on irssi yeah i have three servers configured inside my irssi anyway - got to go for lunch, back shortly | [04:13] |
| plett | bob^^: 1942 days, as recorded when we shut it down: http://flickr.com/gp/plett/99B94r
I'm not sure whether to be more proud of the reliable power etc, or embarased that a box that old was still running | [04:14] |
| jlgaddis | http://www.flickr.com/photos/jlgaddis/4340673033/in/photostream
we "found" that server one day | [04:18] |
| mercutio | jlg: wow
can you call it a server when it runs windows? | [04:18] |
| jlgaddis | nowhere near you guys and your 1800-1900 days, but i thought it was pretty damn impressive for a windows box
mercutio: according to our windows guys, yeah | [04:18] |
| LT | bob^^: you use extreme stuff right? have you ever seen show odometers come out with crazy values for days in service? | [04:27] |
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| bob^^ | LT: only when they've been up for crazy days ;)
but no, i don't think so - what switch? plett: i know what you mean about being embarrased about boxes with uptimes like that :) | [05:26] |
| LT | bob^^: as an example Slot-2 : X450a-24x 19713 Apr-28-2007 | [05:34] |
| bob^^ | hmm, no, that is odd though
i don't have any x450's though, only x350 and 48si these days :( LT: Switch : X350-24t 1141 Jun-05-2008 which seems okay all the x350's i have access to from here look reasonable | [05:35] |
| LT | most of ours are right, just the odd one here and there. even in a single stack all purchased together there are some correct and some not | [05:37] |
| bob^^ | that's odd
have you reported to extreme? (oh - different xos or anything like that maybe?) | [05:37] |
| LT | can't stack them unless they're all the same version... 12.3.4 something or other | [05:38] |
| bob^^ | ahh okay, like a blackdiamond with two msms then
makes sense | [05:38] |
| LT | pretty much... the code seems to think it is a chassis half the time, stack members even get called slots in most places | [05:40] |
| bob^^ | hah, not surprising i suppose, they're probably trying to keep the config sane | [05:41] |
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| up_the_irons | so much interesting scrollback i'm going to have to read later...
my extreme: Service First Recorded Field Replaceable Units Days Start Date --------------------------------------------------------------- Switch : X350-48t 49 Jun-02-2011 XGM2-1 : | [11:27] |
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| jpalmer | up_the_irons: ping? | [12:37] |
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ChanServ sets mode: +o heavysixer | [13:31] | |
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| phlux | What constitutes as a "long-time customer?" | [16:51] |
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| nesta | like, 10 billion years | [17:08] |
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DDevine has joined #arpnetworks HighJinx has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) phlux has joined #arpnetworks DDevine has quit IRC (Read error: Operation timed out) phlux is now known as Guest39746 | [19:38] | |
| Guest39746 | hmm
I can't mount my second drive (/usr/ports) mount -tauto /dev/ad1s1 /usr/ports says "Operation not supported by device" any ideas? | [19:59] |
| *** | Guest39746 is now known as phlux | [20:00] |
| phlux | ah..got it.
mount -r. hmm or not Ok..mount without any flags worked. Bleh | [20:04] |
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| amdprophet | are there any issues with kvr11? | [21:07] |
| up_the_irons: not able to VNC into kvr11
up_the_irons: our vm seems to be down too | [21:17] | |
| jpalmer | amdprophet: log into the portal, and boot your vps.
hard shutdown, wait 1 min, boot. | [21:20] |
| amdprophet | jpalmer: will try
jpalmer: that worked, thanks! | [21:20] |
| jpalmer | np | [21:26] |
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