[00:20] *** ivan-kanis has joined #arpnetworks [00:29] *** EhtyarWRK has quit IRC (Quit: IRC is just multiplayer notepad) [02:00] *** DDevine has joined #arpnetworks [05:42] *** black- has joined #arpnetworks [05:43] *** nesta has quit IRC (Quit: leaving) [05:43] *** black- is now known as nesta [07:19] *** Tadaka has joined #arpnetworks [07:47] *** twobitha1ker is now known as twobithacker [08:05] *** heavysixer has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection) [08:47] *** heavysixer has joined #arpnetworks [08:47] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o heavysixer [09:06] *** heavysixer has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection) [09:15] *** LT has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving) [09:40] *** heavysixer has joined #arpnetworks [09:40] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o heavysixer [09:50] *** pjs_ has joined #arpnetworks [09:54] *** HighJinx has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) [09:55] *** pjs_ has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) [09:56] *** pjs has quit IRC (*.net *.split) [10:03] *** ivan-kanis has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection) [10:04] *** heavysixer has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection) [10:37] *** heavysixer has joined #arpnetworks [10:37] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o heavysixer [10:41] *** HighJinx has joined #arpnetworks [10:47] *** heavysixer has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection) [10:51] *** DDevine has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) [11:25] *** ivan-kanis has joined #arpnetworks [11:39] *** pjs has joined #arpnetworks [11:57] *** heavysixer has joined #arpnetworks [11:57] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o heavysixer [12:48] *** heavysixer has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection) [13:17] *** heavysixer has joined #arpnetworks [13:17] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o heavysixer [13:19] *** heavysixer has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection) [13:48] *** heavysixer has joined #arpnetworks [13:48] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o heavysixer [13:48] *** heavysixer has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection) [13:52] *** ivan-kanis has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection) [14:06] *** tigerpaw has joined #arpnetworks [14:07] arpnetworks guy in? [14:07] maybe something we can help with? [14:08] i was trying to remember the 2 providers i was considering a couple of months ago, as i'm finally ready to get a vps [14:08] just wanted to make sure i went with the right one [14:08] one of them is a company, the other is a 1 man sho [14:08] show [14:08] this is a company. [14:08] I've been happy with them [14:08] which one does garry run? [14:09] You mean Garry Dolley? [14:09] not sure what the person's last name is [14:09] but it's based in so cal iirc [14:09] there's a Garry here. Might be your guy. [14:09] does he run arpnetworks? [14:09] yes [14:10] ok then yea that's the one. i'm gonna support him [14:10] as far as i can tell [14:10] I have had 5 VPS here for over 16 monhts [14:10] very happy [14:11] nice! [14:11] what do you think of that summer special? [14:11] 768 MB 20 GB 400 GB $25 $20 [14:12] i only need the 10$/mo account [14:12] but this gives me almost 4x more of everything for twice as much coin [14:12] I have one of those as one of my five [14:12] the rest are all bigger. [14:13] nice [14:13] spending about $250/month of my money and my client's money here. [14:13] now i've already decided to sign up with arp, so really just a curiosity, but can you think of any negative points of arp from your expeirence? [14:13] nice [14:14] the most negative thing is that you'll be spoiled. [14:14] you'll expect this kind of price/performance when you go somewhere else. :) [14:14] and nothing else is like that [14:14] that's seriously the only bad thing you can think of? :P [14:15] also keep in mind that "official" support is available, but minimal. [14:15] you should be someone who can manage your boxes entirely on your own [14:15] or by asking here in channel for our help [14:15] Garry only gets involved when someone has to actually punch your box differently [14:16] that's why you get a VNC console and a mounted boot DVD. [14:16] yea sure, i and my admin know fbsd [14:16] since 2.2.7 myself [14:16] all 5 of my boxes are ZFS for / [14:16] with snapshots throughout the day. [14:16] and for some of them, we're shipping using zfs send/recv to a remote site for catastrophe backup [14:17] nice set up [14:17] btw i see fbsd 8.2 isn't offered [14:17] *** heavysixer has joined #arpnetworks [14:17] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o heavysixer [14:17] it is... I have it mounted already [14:17] garry just needs to update the website [14:17] oh [14:17] nice [14:17] how's your experience been with 8.2? [14:17] non-eventful. it Just Works. [14:18] putting ZFS for root is easier on 8.2 than on 8.1 [14:18] nice [14:18] no need to copy extra bootloaders. :) [14:20] are those 5 ips all usable? or are some gateway etc [14:20] in the powerup [14:20] * tigerpaw hasn't drank CIDR in about 5 years :P [14:21] you get 1 external IP in the base price [14:21] you can pay more to get more [14:21] a /30 = 1 address [14:21] a /29 = 5 addresses [14:21] a /28 = 13 addresses [14:22] if you go above /28, you need a big pile of paperwork [14:22] yea, that must be usable [14:22] another 3 burned for the overhead [14:22] cause /29 is actually 8 iirc [14:23] sure. 5 + network + broadcast + router [14:23] yep [14:23] ill definitely want the /29 [14:24] 1 dedicated to server admin/ssh with everything else shut down, 4 others for web [14:24] you need 4 ssl? [14:25] because otherwise, most people just use name-based domains now [14:25] yea i know, but i have a few totally separate projects that i want to keep that way [14:25] single IP, distinguished by the "host:" header, which everyone sends these days [14:25] not good to mix midget porn and monster truck ralleys yanno [14:25] yea, http 1.1 thx [14:26] I bought a /28 just to have a few for spare experiments in case it gets a lot harder later. :) [14:27] nice [14:32] RandalSchwartz, what kind of management features does arp give? is there a customer extranet where you can view real time bandwidth flows, etc? [14:36] RandalSchwartz: an IPv4 address is 32 bits long [14:36] Olipro - Yes, I know. [14:36] Why would you think I don't know that? :) [14:37] RandalSchwartz got a /28 back when I offered /28's to everyone; now I am more restrictive as IP resources become more scarce [14:37] tigerpaw - you can request some sort of cacti datagrams [14:37] ;) [14:37] ahh - we have woken the man himself [14:37] RandalSchwartz: so a /30 gives you 4 addresses (assuming it's not on a boundary where one of the possible addresses is 0 or 255) [14:38] cisco has a command, 'ip subnet-zero' or something like that, that let's you use the '0' one :) [14:39] Olipro - no it doesn't [14:40] the all 0's and all 1's are (almost) always reserved no matter what the network mask is [14:40] so looking at the bottom two bits of a /30: [14:40] if you give someone 10.0.0.48/30 then that person has 10.0.0.48 through to 10.0.0.51 available to them [14:40] 00 - network number [14:40] 01 - router [14:41] 10 - machine [14:41] 11 - broadcast [14:41] so you get *one* usable address [14:41] Olipro - I'm going to stop arguing with you now, since you aren't listening. [14:42] if you give someone 10.0.0.48/30, then 10.0.0.48 is the network number, 10.0.0.49 is the router, 10.0.0.50 is the machine (one useful address), and 10.0.0.51 is the broadcast addr [14:42] and *now* I will stop [14:45] *** heavysixer has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection) [14:46] RandalSchwartz: ah ok, a routed subnet [14:46] gotcha [14:47] what did you THINK we were talking about? [14:47] * RandalSchwartz sighs [14:47] *** homosaur has joined #arpnetworks [14:47] a single host in a larger subnet [14:55] RandalSchwartz: if the /30 was routed over another point-to-point address, instead of assigned to a VLAN, it *is* then possible to use more IPs. The gateway would be free'd and the network number technically _could_ be used if the TCP/IP stack supports it. i think only the broadcast has to stay reserved. [14:55] *** heavysixer has joined #arpnetworks [14:55] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o heavysixer [14:56] correct. but not a traditional /30. :) [14:57] can you route v4 like we're doing with v6? [14:57] no - wait, v4 doesn't have link-local addrs [14:57] although you could burn a couple rfc-1918 for that, probably [14:57] If all the devices on the subnet agree about how the addresses are to be used, there's no reason to reserve the network and broadcast addresses. Using a /31 on an ethernet segment to join two machines together is fine if they both understand it. [15:08] RandalSchwartz: you can route v4 like v6 but typically v4 routes over some public /30. so point-to-point links burn a /30. v6 does away with this by using link-local [15:09] plett: would you need static arp entries in that case? [15:10] *** vapor has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) [15:11] *** vapor has joined #arpnetworks [15:12] up_the_irons: You shouldn't need them. ARP sits on top of ethernet and doesn't know about the size of the subnet you're using [15:13] plett: where would IP broadcasts go then (not ARP broadcasts) ? Are they simply not used? [15:15] Yes, they just don't exist. That's one of the things that the machines on the subnet would all have to agree about. [15:16] ah ok [15:17] I've only seen it used "in the wild" with /31s for point-to-point links over ethernet, but there's no real reason why it couldn't work on larger subnets too [15:24] *** Tadaka has quit IRC (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep) [15:24] up_the_irons: On Linux, ifconfig takes a "-broadcast" flag which disables the use of the broadcast address on that interface (and therefore disables IP broadcasts completely). I think the network address is already safe for use as a regular address without any changes. [15:32] plett - no such flag on freebsd [15:32] there's a broadcast arg, to specify the broadcast [15:33] so that's definitely a non-standard interpretation of the RFCs [15:35] Oh yes, it's definitely non-standard. But lots of equipment does support it. I've used it between a Cisco router and a Linux box in the past [15:38] But now we have IPv6, and subnets are big enough that nobody will notice the fact that two addresses on each subnet aren't available for use [15:38] FreeBSD TCP/IP stack is a lot more standard than Linux. I've seen some very peculiar's quirks on Linux that I haven't seen on FreeBSD. [15:38] plett: v6 doesn't use broadcast addresses :) [15:38] given that BSD's stack derives from *the* standard stack, it's not surprising. [15:39] it's all NDP [15:39] up_the_irons: Okay, I rephrase that - nobody (by which I mean me!) will notice that broadcast addresses don't even exist any more :) [16:01] :) [16:44] *** EhtyarWRK has joined #arpnetworks [17:52] *** Olipro has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) [17:52] *** Olipro has joined #arpnetworks [17:54] *** heavysixer has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection) [18:14] *** HighJinx has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) [18:23] *** heavysixer has joined #arpnetworks [18:23] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o heavysixer [19:02] *** lteo has quit IRC (Quit: leaving) [19:18] wow. just ssh'd into a .edu fw w/an account i haven't used in ~5 years. scary [19:19] (i setup the fw fwiw) [19:55] security++ [20:22] *** CowCaBob has joined #arpnetworks [20:23] How long does it take to get a second vps after the first? Same time? 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