#arpnetworks 2011-05-24,Tue

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WhoWhatWhen
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[05:58]
dxtrI pay in advance ,right? [06:09]
RandalSchwartzwith your soul. :)
and especially before "end of the world" :)
[06:13]
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[06:22]
dxtrRandalSchwartz: I'm talking about my VPS, not my sis
sins*
Also, what RFC is it that up_the_irons is following regarding IP allocation?
[06:25]
bob^^aren't the ip allocation RFCs more for RIRs and not LIRs?
bob^^ could be wrong
(i'm thinking of rfc2050 here btw)
[06:30]
RandalSchwartzprobably the iana guidelines [06:30]
bob^^idd
RIR's normally issue guidance to LIRs but it's not in the form of RFCs
(you guys are lucky not to have to deal with RIPE :(
[06:30]
dxtrI remember they were talking about RFCs for that a while ago
But I can't find it now :(
[06:31]
bob^^RFC2050 is guidance for internet registries (an RIR)
on how to issue IPs to ISPs/other customers (those are LIRs)
there's also 1518 (which is out of date and probably doesn't really apply these days) and another one i forget the number of atm
[06:32]
dxtraight
I might be totally off here :)
[06:32]
RandalSchwartzare you just curious, or do you have some conflict, dxtr? [06:33]
dxtrI'm just curious [06:33]
Gdxtr: you are talking about the one where he reserves the next /30 to make a /29? [06:34]
RandalSchwartzand that'd be just his inventory, not an allocation
he's already been allocated it. :)
[06:35]
dxtrRandalSchwartz: Alllocating I mean ofcourse. My head isn't a 100% clear today [06:36]
Gdxtr: I seem to recall up_the_irons talking about an RFC that 'recommends' it as best-practice though [06:36]
dxtrG: It might be that one [06:37]
GI know there is an RFC recommending /56 Service Provider to Customer IPv6 allocations [06:38]
RandalSchwartzyeah - it's all different for v6
but it's 3 tier. /64 if only ever one segment, /56 typical, and /48 if they're going to in turn also allocate out
[06:39]
bob^^yup [06:41]
GRandalSchwartz: in my opinion, /64's should never be allocated to end users, (just my worthless opinion ;)) [06:42]
dxtrNOT ENOUGH IPS! [06:42]
bob^^imho, it depends very much on who your end users are [06:42]
Gbob^^: even for commercial home ISPs [06:42]
bob^^if they have a CPE of some variety doing routing, a /56
but if they're connected to an access LAN and have only one data point in a room, and are only allowed to use one system on it at a time, a /64 seems fine to me
our policy isn't actually defined just yet as some of our edge kit can't do v6 :(
[06:43]
RandalSchwartzI think comcast is going to allocation /64 in their initial ipv6 rollout, with /56 available for a simple request [06:43]
Gbob^^: oh yeah, but what I'm talking about is residential ISPs etc :) [06:44]
bob^^imho, we should be using v6 to remove NAT and instead implementing proper firewalls [06:44]
Geven if only the first /64 is active by default [06:44]
bob^^yeah, agreed G :) [06:44]
RandalSchwartzjust keep in mind... /64 is the *minimum* allocation, and needs to be per-segment [06:44]
GRandalSchwartz: exactly [06:45]
RandalSchwartzif you don't follow that, all sorts of nice things go away [06:45]
bob^^indeed [06:45]
RandalSchwartzRandalSchwartz wanders off to work [06:45]
GRandalSchwartz: well technically, you could use /96's or smaller for point-to-point right? [06:45]
bob^^technically you can but i believe that's not recommended [06:45]
Gand route a /64 down that, but that'd get ugly iirc [06:45]
bob^^yeah [06:46]
Gdxtr: RFC 3531 [06:46]
bob^^there are some good documents on the RIPE web site for v6 allocation plans
along with 'how' and 'why' and 'why not' sections
well worth reading
[06:46]
Gexcept that is an IPv6 RFC [06:47]
dxtrRandalSchwartz: A VPS provider here in Sweden that brags about their native IPv6 connectivity and stuff handles out single IPv6 address'
Also, they cost like 10 cents each
[06:48]
Gbecause there was a query on if a person switched a /30 to a /29 if the IPs would change, and the response was: "I'll see if there is space above it (usually there is, since we use rfc 3531 allocation method) [06:48]
dxtrI sent them an e-mail explaining that "You're doing it wrong" [06:48]
Gdxtr: thats what Linode announced they would do, allocate a /128 per VPS, suddenly they changed their mind
G just laughed like a madman when I saw that
[06:48]
bob^^i think a lot of people did that initially with v6 hehe [06:49]
Gnothing like a VPS provider that does things right (ala ARP) [06:50]
dxtr:D
"A /128 PER VPS!? That's a lot of bits!"
[06:50]
Gheh [06:50]
dxtr"IT's MOAR THAN TINY /64!" [06:50]
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RandalSchwartzwhat costs 10 cents? Each single ipv6 /128? I don't think so. :) [07:11]
bob^^we could build a new currency using a /64's worth ;) [07:14]
Gheh
G registers a heap of IPv6 assignments as security in case we run out of IPv6 space... IPv6 black market here I come ;)
[07:14]
RandalSchwartzthat's thinking long-term, I guess. :) [07:15]
bob^^you know, that's something i was joking about with some other isp guys last week [07:15]
RandalSchwartzor thinking whacky [07:15]
bob^^if we give out SO MANY ipv6 addresses to so many stupid devices/people
then aren't we back in the same boat as with v4? ;)
[07:15]
RandalSchwartzI know you're joking. :) [07:16]
bob^^;) [07:16]
Gexactly, I'm proposing that I will invest in Human Stupidity! [07:16]
bob^^it'll be nice to remove NAT
everything publically addressable, living the dream!
[07:16]
Gif a NZ company starts doing IPv6 NAT, I'm getting into politics and going to lobby the Govt to legislate against IPv6 NAT :P [07:17]
bob^^you just know it's going to happen
:(
[07:17]
GI'll also make sure as part of that they reintroduce the death penalty, and IPv6 NAT is eligable for such :P [07:18]
bob^^G for president! [07:18]
RandalSchwartzI wonder how long the domain names would have to be if we had one web site in each separate /64 [07:19]
bob^^lol
good question
[07:19]
RandalSchwartzback of envelope... a /16 worth of /64 is 48 bits
each domain char is about 5 bits
so about 10 chars, using all possible combos :)
[07:19]
Gbob^^: reckon it'd be a good policy eh? [07:20]
RandalSchwartznow ... a /16 of /128...
112 bits...
24 meaningless chars. :)
so that's good. DNS will not be the bottleneck
"come visit us at b5kj3nnn3kadk213d.com" :)
kinda like the new emergency services number on the IT Crowd.
oh wait - dns is case sensitive.
yeah, 5 bits though. 6 if it was case sensitive
[07:20]
GRandalSchwartz: heh, that segment is brilliant [07:22]
RandalSchwartzerr. missing "not" in above sentence
... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ab8GtuPdrUQ

I love the callback in the next season where moss has to call emergency services...
[07:23]
Goh the Fire? [07:23]
RandalSchwartzYeah, I think that was it.
but I remember a quick reference to it a lot later too
[07:24]
Goh the Fire was the same episode [07:25]
RandalSchwartz"better looking drivers"
Yeah - I think somewhere in season 4 it has a callback
but he says only the first few digits
[07:25]
bob^^IT Crowd is great :)
didn't realise you guys got it over there
[07:25]
Gyeah, only problem I'd have is I'd have a second heart attack if she turned up :) [07:25]
RandalSchwartz"as long as there's an internet, there's no pond..." :) [07:26]
GRandalSchwartz: pretty sure Season 4 hasn't appeared in NZ [07:26]
bob^^oh wait, there's a US version [07:26]
RandalSchwartzthe US version didn't even publish a pilot
sucked that bad
[07:26]
bob^^ahh
so you get the proper UK one?
[07:26]
RandalSchwartzof course [07:26]
bob^^excellent :) [07:26]
G"Oh, typical.... I wonder why it did that" *looks at label* "Made in UK" [07:27]
RandalSchwartzwithin hours of it being on BBC. :) [07:27]
bob^^hah, it's not even on the BBC here [07:27]
RandalSchwartzyou can also get sesason 1 and 4 on streaming netflix in the US [07:27]
G"Is this the Emergency Services? And which country am I speaking to? Hello?" [07:27]
bob^^i love the one with Sea Parks
where Roy builds all the models to try and work out how a water park could have caught fire
[07:29]
Gbob^^: that much be season 4 [07:29]
bob^^yup
tis
the episode is Italian for Beginners :)
[07:29]
RandalSchwartzroy gets obsessed a lot :) [07:29]
bob^^yeah :) [07:32]
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jlgaddisup_the_irons: thanks [18:54]
RandalSchwartzRandalSchwartz waves [18:57]
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