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| Who | What | When |
|---|---|---|
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| RandalSchwartz | weird - getting some net breakage not to here, but to other sites
traceroute from laptop to delta.com stops at gblx.net for example | [08:28] |
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| pilgrimd | --glbx.
been giving me hell all week at a couple of sites (i.e., my connectivity output through them has sucked) | [10:05] |
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| ww | up_the_irons: you work for arp, right and aren't just one of the clueful customers that hangs out in the channel? | [11:12] |
| RandalSchwartz | it's true
he practically *is* arp. :) | [11:12] |
| ww | up_the_irons: haaalp | [11:13] |
| fink | RandalSchwartz: did you get an arp tshirt yet? | [11:13] |
| RandalSchwartz | something we clueful people can help with?
fink - I don't think so | [11:13] |
| fink | RandalSchwartz: me neither :( | [11:13] |
| RandalSchwartz | haven't seen any recent packages | [11:13] |
| ww | unfortunately not. | [11:13] |
| RandalSchwartz | ww - then send email to support@
it'll get done as fast as it can get done then. :) | [11:14] |
| ww | machine has become unstable, probably because of zfs and insufficient ram (and i recently added some things that eat an extra 400Nb of ram)
so need a ram upgrade... erm urgently... | [11:14] |
| RandalSchwartz | then you should probably back that out until you get more ram | [11:14] |
| ww | i sent an email... | [11:15] |
| RandalSchwartz | "urgent add of ram" is not a service provided here
"adding ram in a day or two" is more likely you could temporarily add more swap space | [11:15] |
| *** | ivan-kanis has joined #arpnetworks | [11:16] |
| RandalSchwartz | that'd at least give you the option of pushing stuff out to disk that's less active. | [11:17] |
| ww | backing out would be hard, in this case... spinning up another host elsewhere more likely if it'll take a while, but i'd rather not | [11:17] |
| RandalSchwartz | poor planning then. :( | [11:18] |
| ww | swap... well... 4s-backend (see 4store.org) gets very unhappy if it gets swapped (which happens now from time to time and is painful) | [11:18] |
| fink | damn, 400Nb! | [11:18] |
| ww | RandalSchwartz: planning? well... | [11:18] |
| RandalSchwartz | Nanobytes! | [11:18] |
| fink | nebibyte? | [11:18] |
| ww | fink: 400Mb out of 1024 is... well... significant | [11:18] |
| fink | ww: out of curiosity, what did you add?
i switched from apache to cherokee, and saved a shload of ram | [11:18] |
| ww | actually, added nothing substantial new in terms of software (some minor upgrades)
what i did add was a pile of data | [11:19] |
| RandalSchwartz | ... Optimum price/performance can be got with clusters of machines with large amounts of RAM. 16+GB per node is typical currently.
you mean you didn't read that and go "heck, I need more ram"> that'd be my first clue | [11:19] |
| ww | RandalSchwartz: depends on the quantity of data, actually | [11:20] |
| RandalSchwartz | yeah - but anytime people say "this will need a lot of ram" what they mean is "I don't code very well" :) | [11:20] |
| ww | with 16Gb of Ram you're talking ~100-150 million triples (rows, approximately)
i've only about 10 million | [11:20] |
| RandalSchwartz | so why can't you just get rid of your data for now
roll it back, and wait for ram? you didn't go live without testing did you? | [11:20] |
| ww | because of a dog and pony show tomorrow | [11:21] |
| fink | here we go… | [11:21] |
| RandalSchwartz | again - poor planning. :( | [11:21] |
| ww | what me plan? | [11:21] |
| fink | ;) | [11:21] |
| RandalSchwartz | remind me not to subcontract to you. :) | [11:21] |
| fink | i DO have that tshirt | [11:21] |
| ivan-kanis | :D | [11:21] |
| ww | oh, not a paying customer dog and pony show
if it were a paying customer they would be paying for bigger hardware | [11:22] |
| RandalSchwartz | you missed the point, but that's fine
everyone else here got it. :) | [11:22] |
| ww | anyways, re: planning... plenty of time to spin up a machine elsewhere if this can't be sorted quickly | [11:26] |
| RandalSchwartz | I don't know why you seem to think that answers or contradicts my claim | [11:27] |
| fink | ww: what OS? | [11:27] |
| ww | because... there is no problem that can be attributed to inadequate planning?
fink freebsd 8.1 and i'm *assuming* that Fatal trap 9: general protection fault while in kernel mode is caused by ZFS WARNING: Recommended minimum kmem_size is 512MB; expect unstable behavior. | [11:28] |
| fink | ww: i run fbsd 8.1 with zfs on root on a 768 vps, but i tweaked the zfs settings a bit, and i doubt i have your load
what processes / data are you running? | [11:30] |
| ww | misc small things - it's the laboratory host
and, the metadata aggregator which i would point you to, if the machine wasn't thrashing around again at the moment | [11:31] |
| fink | ww: ok, what's your largest process group, maybe we can think of ways to make it leaner? | [11:34] |
| ww | 4s-backend
not much to be done really. it alone occupies half the ram. and there's an obligatory 4s-httpd whose size depends on the complexity of queries then there's nginx, and a harvesting daemon most everything else has been turned off ww just spins up a new machine... | [11:35] |
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| reardencode | fink: mind sharing some of the tweaking you did to run ZFS on a 768VPS? I considered it but figured that it'd freak out due to lack of ARC space if I used ~650mb of that 768 for actual running processes | [12:17] |
| ww | ww is interested in that as well | [12:19] |
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| RandalSchwartz | ... http://wiki.freebsd.org/ZFSTuningGuide | [12:39] |
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| ww | for interest's sake, the service in question http://semantic.ckan.net/ (pretty pictures here, http://semantic.ckan.net/record/2ab28263-a1fe-4839-9409-fa7ef03e123e and here http://semantic.ckan.net/group/?group=http://ckan.net/group/lld) is noww back up and running smoothly
unfortunately, elsewhere (rackspace) | [13:36] |
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| RandalSchwartz | elastichosts is a lot more flexible than rackspace
at least in my observation we're using elastichosts for BCP behind ARP with elastichosts, if you want more ram, you slide a slider, and reboot. :) it's *that* fast | [13:57] |
| I'm building a 8.2 box on elastichosts right now | [14:05] | |
| ww | yes, i'm familiar with them, but there's already an account, etc. set up with rs... | [14:06] |
| toddf | randalschwartz: elastichosts.com/could-hosting/pricing clearly shows that their smallest server is 1gb mem .. if you do a 'subscription' for 1gb mem 40gb disk 400gb xfer (same as arp's $30/mo system) you'd pay $107.92/mo there. huge difference in my world.
though as BCP plans go, it surely is good to make them | [14:19] |
| RandalSchwartz | that doesn't make sense | [14:22] |
| toddf | I also don't note IPv6 mentioned, perhaps you could answer if there is remote encrypted console access and/or serial console access | [14:22] |
| RandalSchwartz | I was dialing in some plans at $70/mo
so the minimum can't be 107.92 | [14:22] |
| toddf | randalschwartz: minimum isn't 107.92
its just that if you compare apples to apples their minimum mem is 1gb finding the 1gb mem option at arpnetworks, I chose the values from arpnetworks and plugged it into their little slider pricing guide | [14:22] |
| RandalSchwartz | ... https://sat-p.elastichosts.com/docs/pricing
yeah - it's a bit more expensive overall nothing is as cheap as ARP :) and yeah, no ipv6 yet they say "just use a tunnel" :( | [14:23] |
| toddf | "let he.net deal with IPv6 till we get our heads out of the sand" | [14:24] |
| RandalSchwartz | indeed. anyone not dealing with ipv6 today has their heads firmly hidden :) | [14:25] |
| toddf | I've seen some 4U plans for 100mbit links unmetered if I provided the server. so after it approaches $100 for finite resources i tend to gloss over and out
"plans" => for $100 | [14:26] |
| up_the_irons | toddf: I'm ready for OpenBSD 4.9 BTW, so whenever you want to make those templates... | [14:37] |
| toddf | ack | [14:41] |
| RandalSchwartz | ahh - so you *can* use freebsd-update to go from 8.1 to 8.2 without recopying the boot blocks
unlike 8.0 to 8.1 for zfs-on-root just verified this in a private vm | [14:42] |
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| up_the_irons | nice | [14:57] |
| RandalSchwartz | so that means I can upgrade my 4 VPS with minimal steps
everything at the # prompt :) | [14:59] |
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| dferris | dferris <3 the Dell iDrac 6 | [15:56] |
| jpalmer | up_the_irons: tell me how to make templates. I'll make you one for CentOS 5.6 (and 6.0 if they ever release it) and RHEL 5.6/6.0 | [16:02] |
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| up_the_irons | jpalmer: can you do FreeBSD 8.2 as well? I can write-up the docs tonight | [16:14] |
| jpalmer | up_the_irons: I'd love to.
I can likely do FreeBSD this week. are you interested in centos/rhel? | [16:16] |
| RandalSchwartz | yeay freebsd :) | [16:17] |
| jpalmer | and, can I get away from the single / partition? like, the sysinstall defaults? :) | [16:18] |
| reardencode | jpalmer: I think that single partition on these relatively small VPSs is probably preferable? | [16:22] |
| jpalmer | single partition is NEVER preferable.
(but, I'll do whatever garry wants) | [16:22] |
| G | jpalmer: ummm strictly speaking, Red Hat likely wouldn't like the idea of a RHEL VM image if there is now VM/Cloud licensing
*no | [16:23] |
| jpalmer | G good point. they'd want licensing. so CentOS only | [16:24] |
| G | that said.... | [16:24] |
| reardencode | jpalmer: due to the different access patterns on the different POSIX dirs, or something else I'm not thinking of? | [16:24] |
| G | I guess you could label it as bring your own license, no updates otherwise | [16:24] |
| jpalmer | reardencode: filling up you / is a lot more dangerous than filling up most other mountpoints.
reardencode: but that aside, a small / is preferable, because all of the other paritions can be background fsck'd. / has to be done at boot. in the case of an unclean mount, a 20g / takes longer to fsck than a 512m / | [16:24] |
| reardencode | jpalmer: both valid points -- I guess you'd probably have to do at least two different templates, one for 5G vps and another for any other size, in order to leave even a reasonable amount of space for /usr on the 5G | [16:28] |
| RandalSchwartz | a single ZFS partition is fine
because I can rehack it at will | [16:30] |
| jpalmer | personally, I'm ok with whatever garry wants for a template. I can always resize on my own. | [16:31] |
| reardencode | really as ZFS matures, the many filesystem roots in a single pool of storage will win
RandalSchwartz: yep. | [16:31] |
| RandalSchwartz | so if you could also offer /-as-ZFS as a template, that'd be great | [16:31] |
| jpalmer | I doubt most people will want to run ZFS on a vps due to the limited RAM resources. | [16:31] |
| RandalSchwartz | and yet, I have four of them
and it's all working fine | [16:32] |
| jpalmer | also, to this day, I've never messed with ZFS (I don't have a need for it) so, I don't think I'd be the right guy to build a ZFS-as-root template | [16:32] |
| fink | RandalSchwartz: guess we're not most people | [16:32] |
| RandalSchwartz | apparently
we don't run in jpalmer's circles :) | [16:32] |
| jpalmer | heh
my circles are small, I chase my own tail a lot. | [16:33] |
| RandalSchwartz | I chase tail a lot too.
oh - "my own" no | [16:33] |
| reardencode | RandalSchwartz: how much RAM do you use for programs of your 768MiB with ZFS? | [16:45] |
| RandalSchwartz | I have to think which one of the boxes are like that.
probably mabel. lemme look says 278MB free that box is just email and DNS | [16:50] |
| pilgrimd | What do you have arc and kmem tuned to? | [16:51] |
| RandalSchwartz | the recommedations on ZFSTuningGuide
arc = 40M kmem = 330M search for 768 in http://wiki.freebsd.org/ZFSTuningGuide I'm using those haven't had a problem in 10 months or so even with a fair amount of spam running postfix with postgrey and amavisd | [16:52] |
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| fink | amavisd is such a memory hog!
i have two vpses with the same setup as RandalSchwartzDoppleGanger | [17:17] |
| *** | jazz57 has left | [17:28] |
| jaja | up_the_irons here? | [17:32] |
| RandalSchwartz | jaja - why? | [17:35] |
| jaja | I dont see the payment on my CC, I want to know if there's a problm. | [17:36] |
| fink | jaja: it can take a couple days | [17:38] |
| G | up_the_irons: second VPS requires the /29 subnet right? | [17:38] |
| fink | jaja: wait…payment or charge?
is this a soviet russia joke? arp pays you? | [17:38] |
| G | jaja: I don't think the billing cycle has happened yet | [17:39] |
| jaja | charge sorry
I am french my english isn't perfect, and I am abit tired tonight | [17:39] |
| G | fink: payment is fine imo, because he's making a payment to arp | [17:39] |
| RandalSchwartz | you won't get your service disabled until he calls you
nothing to worry about so if there's a problem with payment, it won't matter until he gets around to turning it off :) | [17:40] |
| G | just wait for the thugs in the black suits to appear :) | [17:40] |
| RandalSchwartz | and the helicopters!
don't forget the helicopters! | [17:40] |
| G | RandalSchwartz: I thought he replaced the helicopters w/ drones | [17:41] |
| fink | with the silent blades | [17:41] |
| jaja | I prefer fellow my billing, I am here since 6 month and generally charge is done 1th day of each month, sorry ! | [17:41] |
| RandalSchwartz | whooop whooop whooop | [17:41] |
| G | all of the sudden they dart out of nowhere and pin you to the nearest brick wall :) | [17:41] |
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| up_the_irons | G: yes | [17:59] |
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| jpalmer: OK, I'll write up the docs tonight. I don't have any templates for centos/rhel, so i can't give you a description of what is needed; you'd have to "figure it out" based on the Debian / Ubuntu template creation docs I have, and b/c the network is different, you might not want to go down that road | [18:26] | |
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| G | up_the_irons: jpalmer: if help is needed regarding CentOS let me know
that said, I'm running Ubuntu on my VPS atm :) | [18:46] |
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| jpalmer | up_the_irons: nice. I'm setting up a pretty large bacula environment over the next 2-3 days. but, after that.. fbsd 8.2 template! | [18:59] |
| up_the_irons | jpalmer: sweet! | [19:00] |
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| G | up_the_irons: support ticket best for second VPS I take it right? | [19:08] |
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| G | up_the_irons: actually, if I only needed IPv6 on my second VPS, would you be able to do that w/o a /29? | [19:14] |
| up_the_irons | G: yes, i would in fact
G: and yeah, support ticket for 2nd vps | [19:25] |
| G | up_the_irons: okay, sent | [19:25] |
| up_the_irons | roger | [19:25] |
| G | up_the_irons: I only need IPv4 very occassionally, so if I can just use a private IP, and route the occasional packet via VPN or over the private network, then it save the pool and everything
I noticed the other day that American IP's a worth more than Asian IPs *are | [19:26] |
| up_the_irons | lol | [19:27] |
| G | up_the_irons: APNIC have a crazy formula for working out the costs of IP address assignment,s but I did the math and yeah, for big assignments APNIC look cheaper, kinda crazy in a way I guess | [19:28] |
| up_the_irons | i c | [19:31] |
| RandalSchwartz | so IP addresses do in fact have a real dollar value now?
interesting of course, they're not marketable since you can't reassign without the NICs getting involed | [19:31] |
| G | RandalSchwartz: well, there is the membership fees etc
RandalSchwartz: ARIN look to charge by the size of the assignment on a broadbasis, APNIC charge essentially on a per-ip basis I actually had to remember how to do log's with the APNIC pricing | [19:32] |
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