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| Who | What | When |
|---|---|---|
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| key | can anyone compare for me arpnetworks.com vs rootbsd.net?
arpnetworks has better prices is the only real diff i've been able to identify so far both seem to have fine enough reviews | [02:54] |
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| nuke- | arp > rootbsd
didnt even had to look | [03:03] |
| key | not exactly helpful
but thx? | [03:04] |
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| msil | Hey; I'm from the UK and just bought one of your BSD VPSs
Just wandering about latency, it's not great - is this a temporary problem or is it just a matter of my location? | [03:12] |
| key | you need to enable quantum computing
http://verydemotivational.memebase.com/2011/02/24/demotivational-posters-wait-for-it-wait-for-it/ that should help | [03:13] |
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| LT | msil: you've gotta cross the atlantic and half the US so the latency is never gonna go below say 100ms - without knowing what latency you're seeing it's hard to say | [04:36] |
| DDevine | msil: I would say that it is probably distance. I get 245ms to Brisbane Australia. | [04:37] |
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| RandalSchwartz | Here at the LAX Airport Hilton, I can watch the landings right from my window. :) | [06:29] |
| raptelan | up_the_irons: an openbsd mirror would be nice while you're at it. ;) | [06:40] |
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| jlgaddis | msil: rfc1925
"No matter how hard you push and no matter what the priority, you can't increase the speed of light." | [07:22] |
| _pe | jpalmer: you around?
is it possible for customers to examine the qemu config of their vps? also: is there any support for allowing the user to upload/change the cd-rom image for their vps? | [07:31] |
| *** | bharatak has joined #arpnetworks | [07:38] |
| RandalSchwartz | _pe - latter is simple - just send email to support@, and give a URL
you won't see the change until a complete poweroff I guess that's the only time the config file is re-read that kind of request generally takes a day or two (in other words, minimal) | [07:41] |
| _pe | RandalSchwartz: thanks, i've had it changed through that method, just wondered if there was any way the user could manage it themselves, to avoid the delay/bothering support
having some trouble getting plan 9 installed and would like to be able to try different images more quickly | [07:46] |
| RandalSchwartz | Yeah, there's no mechanism for that here.
Although it has been mildly discussed, I think. have you considered a VM inside your vm? virtualbox works ok inside freebsd here, someone said. | [07:48] |
| _pe | i've considered it but haven't tried yet. i figured there would be a substantial performance penalty. | [07:48] |
| RandalSchwartz | well, is your problem benchmarking?
or just functionality | [07:49] |
| _pe | functionality; i don't really have any hard requirements for performance | [07:49] |
| RandalSchwartz | if it's not about benchmarking, then don't worry about speed. | [07:49] |
| _pe | i've not experimented in this area so i don't really know what to expect.
is nested qemu really stable? :) | [07:49] |
| RandalSchwartz | or even better, try on a local box until you get all the pieces to work
I don't see why it wouldn't be stable the errors are squared, but that should still be better than most | [07:49] |
| _pe | hm, won't hurt to give it a shot.
thanks. | [07:53] |
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ChanServ sets mode: +o heavysixer | [07:57] |
| RandalSchwartz | RandalSchwartz wanders off to SCALE | [08:09] |
| mike-burns | Oh hey one of my coworkers is presenting there.
If you go to the Redis talk be sure to give the nervous guy on stage a hard time. | [08:11] |
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| jdoe | lol | [10:16] |
| raptelan | raptelan surprised to see RandalSchwartz here..."it's a small world after all..." | [10:17] |
| jdoe | RandalSchwartz: arpnetworks celeb | [10:18] |
| raptelan | _pe: why are you using plan9? I was idly curious aboutit...
_pe: it would definitely be very nice to be able to upload / change cd images | [10:19] |
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| toddf | raptelan: ability to upload / change cd images would be a feature request, support@ is where those should go | [11:23] |
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| *** | chess has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer) | [11:47] |
| RandalSchwartz | raptelan - why surprised?
this is my VPS host I even talk about it on floss weekly from time to time | [11:49] |
| jdoe | mutter. OpenBSD's handbook is out of date. | [11:51] |
| RandalSchwartz | s/OpenBSD/$anyproject/ | [11:52] |
| jdoe | freebsd's is actually pretty good, probably because it's a blocker for a release ;)
openbsd's... I dunno how generally out of date it is, but the pf section at least, the examples are wrong. | [11:53] |
| RandalSchwartz | RandalSchwartz wanders off | [11:56] |
| toddf | jdoe: if it were updated as part of release, it'd be great. otherwise see man pages. | [12:00] |
| jdoe | toddf: sorry, I meant faq not handbook.
toddf: http://www.openbsd.org/faq/pf/scrub.html is no longer correct though. as of... 4.6, apparently. | [12:06] |
| toddf | jdoe: eep, time to alert the natives
jdoe: we try to catch everything but obviously as humans go ... | [12:15] |
| jdoe | I dig :)
iirc I had a similar problem with NAT but I'd have to doublecheck that... it might just be everyone ELSE on the internet that's out of date. | [12:16] |
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| *** | chess has joined #arpnetworks | [13:13] |
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| key | hey guys, im shopping for a freebsd VPS. it's down to rootbsd or arpnetworks. can you guys chime in with input? | [13:23] |
| a_j__c | Try ArpNetworks and if you dislike go to rootbsd
and naturally, #arpnetwork would prefer arpnetworks over rootbsd (I'd assume) | [13:23] |
| key | that isn't to say someone here wouldn't have honest feedback that would help me decide | [13:26] |
| a_j__c | no, what I'm saying is that
the chatters here are likely here because they like/have the service | [13:30] |
| toddf | key: things to find out about rootbsd which is a pure win here for me at arp is .. 1) do they provide serial console access? 2) do they provide secure vnc access to vga console? 3) do they provide you with pleanty of IPv6 address space? 4) do they permit you to poweroff/poweron your vps via ssh? 5) do they do over-allocation of mem or disk? (arp doesn't)
key: you'll find service orders (new vps, more bandwidth, more disk, etc) aren't processed instantaneously here, but for those of us willing to wait the wait is worth it .. I like that we pay less due to less overhead | [13:31] |
| key | great points. so arp does provide allt hose things? serial etc | [13:34] |
| jlgaddis | i've been w/ arp for a little over a year. no major issues, nothing to bitch or complain about from me.
/m up_the_irons that's what i was supposed to say, right? whoops ;) | [13:38] |
| fink | fink still hasn't gotten his arp t-shirt | [13:39] |
| vcs | lol | [13:47] |
| dferris | dferris is a former rootbsd customer
the biggest difference is they were more expensive :) and also xen vs kvm. I prefer KVM arp has MUCH better out of band support at least for me anyway, since I prefer using an ssh connection instead of some web gui Let me see if I can think of other difference RootBSD has a backup service you can buy that I never used no ipv6 The console was VNC only and secure at all I hated using it and they were pretty good about support issues...I never had any problems but with arp I get more for less, and I get double the bandwidth...400GB vs 250GB | [13:49] |
| key | hm
i'm just slightly concerned about 1. 1 man shop (the hit-by-a-bus factor) and 2. the DC being in LA. (potential risk of power shortages, riots, etc) | [13:59] |
| zeeby | I have no idea about RootBSD, but I chose ARP due to the excellent word of mouth reputation the company has.
And they have excellent connectivity as well. | [14:02] |
| key | yea here on hawaii the latency is 20ms less than rootbsd
which is nice | [14:02] |
| zeeby | Anwyay, for $20, I am not concerned whether it's a 1 man shop or not. You're not colo'ing your $3k worth of gear or anything.. it's just a vps, but maybe my outlook differs from others. | [14:04] |
| key | well it's just that this'll also be my mail server for company and personal, so if it went down and stayed down, that would really suck
(i use imap) | [14:04] |
| jpalmer | key: the 1 man shop aspect is easily negated by having a decent backup strategy. if for any reason the VPS were to go down permanently, bring your data and services back up somewhere else. | [14:05] |
| key | jpalmer, sure, just that it's tough to keep a frequent/recent sync of mail data. and it could potentially suck to lose even 1 mail | [14:05] |
| dferris | yeah just backup your VPS | [14:06] |
| zeeby | key, then you should probably look into getting a dedicated box instead of a vps, if uptime, etc is that crucial to you.
key, however, we run a service from the VPS's as well and so far, there haven't been any issues at all with arp. | [14:06] |
| jpalmer | I personally use google apps for mail, I've spent many years running my own mail services.. it's nice not to have that headache anymore. | [14:06] |
| dferris | dferris never had stability problems with either RootBSD or Arp | [14:06] |
| a_j__c | that is exactly what I do
@ jpalmer | [14:06] |
| dferris | if you're really worried about the bus factor, then you probably want a VPS with each provider so you can move things around :) | [14:07] |
| key | i'm partly doing this to migrate away from google mail. i want nothing to do with google
yea that's true for not much more cash i could get 1 at both just run a daily backup rsync or something | [14:07] |
| dferris | glad to be of assistance
:) | [14:08] |
| zeeby | For $40 you could get a cheap dedicated box at superb.net as well | [14:08] |
| dferris | heh my company has a rack with them | [14:09] |
| zeeby | dferris, yeah I have a half rack there too :-x | [14:09] |
| dferris | I like them except I do not like their head network engineer | [14:09] |
| zeeby | and their seattle dc experiences non stop issues, I think their distro is over capacity | [14:09] |
| dferris | we're in Mclean VA | [14:09] |
| zeeby | Us too, but I have a couple nodes in seattle
and every week they have like 20-30 mins of packet loss (cumulative) | [14:10] |
| dferris | I saw some packet loss to mclean with mtr a few weeks ago
usually about 1-2% | [14:10] |
| zeeby | Hope you're not doing voip :-) | [14:12] |
| dferris | no thank god | [14:12] |
| key | which facility are they in in SEA?
i ran a colo there in fisher plaza for a while 2002 to 2006 | [14:13] |
| up_the_irons | raptelan: email support@ requesting an openbsd mirror and I'll work on it over the weekend :) | [14:14] |
| zeeby | key, I'm not sure, I am only aware of one facility they have in Sea, and no idea on exact location | [14:15] |
| dferris | it's in Tukwila WA
don't have the exact address | [14:15] |
| key | ah yea, lotta stuff in Tuk | [14:18] |
| dferris | anyway key: if you really want the HA you might as well just buy 2 VPSes with 2 providers but for just home / hobby stuff it seems like overkill | [14:19] |
| key | it'll be for corp/personal use
but yea, i'd probably start with 1 then roll out to a 2nd at least to back up to | [14:20] |
| up_the_irons | i'm thinking this might be a waste of money, but what the hell; i just registered plan9vps.com ;) | [14:21] |
| dferris | hah | [14:21] |
| key | plan9 rules
up_the_irons, btw, got a pm when you have a moment | [14:21] |
| up_the_irons | raptelan: _pe : the concern i have about letting users upload their own CD images is that there _are_ some images that can hose the host machine. I've seen it with microtik RouterOS; some people on kvr13 may remember this from 6 months ago, when the host's networking stack seemed to blow up | [14:23] |
| toddf | perhaps a selection of pre-certified-to-not-mess-the-network-stack-up cds with the ability to add more a request queue thing. like standard os install images instead of random joe's custom cd install image. | [14:26] |
| up_the_irons | toddf: that's a good list of differences, I think I'll add some to the "Why Us?" section on the website ;) | [14:28] |
| toddf | you might even say "every day is IPv6 day at ARP" heh | [14:31] |
| zeeby | hah | [14:31] |
| key | up_the_irons ? | [14:33] |
| up_the_irons | zeeby: dferris : you guys have rack space at superb.net? makes me wonder if I should push my colocation services more (i technically can provide it, but the margin's are kinda low = don't see the point)
key: a_j__c jpalmer : i found a good happy medium between using google apps for mail exclusively and running your own mail server. i still run my own OpenBSD/postfix/dovecot setup for mail, but I outsource to mailroute.info for spam / virus filtering. mailroute has been working freakin' awesome come to think of it, i'm still on their trial... wonder when they will contact me for a credit card ;) | [14:40] |
| pilgrimd | IPv6 was one of the main reasons I switched to ARPN. | [14:43] |
| up_the_irons | toddf: yeah, a pre-defined list is a good idea
toddf: LOL, I've told people "every day is IPv6 day at ARP" already ;) key: replying to your PM now :) 74 users in here now, a new record up_the_irons tweeted it zeeby: you're from devious, no? | [14:46] |
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| RandalSchwartz | there's an arp t-shirt? :) | [14:56] |
| up_the_irons | there isn't ;) | [14:58] |
| RandalSchwartz | ... <fink> still hasn't gotten his arp t-shirt
ahh, a joke. | [14:58] |
| jdoe | jdoe still hasn't gotten his ipv6 t-shirt :/ | [14:58] |
| RandalSchwartz | I got mine from HE
for hitting sage | [14:58] |
| up_the_irons | toddf: http://arpnetworks.com/vps , if you don't like the quote attribution, i can take it off (search "Todd Fries" on that page) | [14:58] |
| jdoe | RandalSchwartz: yeah that's the one I'm talking about. Was a couple months ago, so I'm... not really holding out hope anymore. | [14:59] |
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| RandalSchwartz | up_the_irons - time to edit that to read "8.2" not "8.1"
you're so behind the times. :) | [15:02] |
| up_the_irons | RandalSchwartz: yeah, i still need to make the 8.2 templates though (only 24 hours in a day, arghghg!) | [15:02] |
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| RandalSchwartz | except twice a year
then it's 23 and 25 :) | [15:03] |
| up_the_irons | haha | [15:03] |
| RandalSchwartz | and don't waste the occasional leap second! | [15:03] |
| zeeby | up_the_irons: yes devious and tunnelr :-) | [15:06] |
| toddf | up_the_irons: no worries on the quote, if you find it useful, great! you may wish to create a hyperlink to this though: http://isoc.org/wp/worldipv6day/
which is the pun I was playing with in that quote | [15:07] |
| up_the_irons | zeeby: cool :)
toddf: ah yes | [15:07] |
| fink | fink wasn't joking | [15:08] |
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| up_the_irons | fink really wants an arp shirt | [15:13] |
| fink | i do :) or at least a mug | [15:13] |
| up_the_irons | haha | [15:14] |
| RandalSchwartz | mug him!
you can put the arp logo up at cafepress and let us pay rediculous prices to show our support wait a second. "Pieces" Oh - I gess that's right just looked weird All the right pisces :) | [15:14] |
| fink | RandalSchwartz: also, ridiculous | [15:16] |
| RandalSchwartz | yeah that too | [15:20] |
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| up_the_irons | welcome jennjenn | [15:53] |
| jennjenn | hullo up_the_irons
thanks for setting up my VPS so quickly! | [15:53] |
| up_the_irons | no problem
I usually can't do provisioning until the evening hours, but today was an exception | [15:54] |
| jennjenn | lucky day for me then!
(though not really considering how it started!) | [16:00] |
| fink | so…how was your day? | [16:04] |
| up_the_irons | jennjenn: so you had an openbsd vps elsewhere that got hacked? | [16:05] |
| jennjenn | noo I was on a shared host
not sure if it was the whole server that got hacked but I'm pretty positive they ended up getting into the root because I haven't been able to find the source (like a phoenix from the ashes...) | [16:05] |
| up_the_irons | ah i c
sucks | [16:07] |
| pilgrimd | fink: http://www.cafepress.com/+arp_request_shirt,458570623 | [16:07] |
| fink | pilgrimd: sweet! | [16:08] |
| jennjenn | indeed! hopefully a clean start will make things better! | [16:08] |
| up_the_irons | pilgrimd: hhaha | [16:12] |
| pilgrimd | There needs to be a rule 34c: If it is exists, you can buy it printed on something from CafePress | [16:13] |
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| G | pilgrimd: they can print a fully featured blu-ray player on a CafePress t-shirt? sweet! ;) | [16:44] |
| pilgrimd | G: Tell you what. You find me porn starring a full-featured bluray player and I'll work with CP on getting one printed on a t-shirt. | [16:44] |
| fink | heh | [16:53] |
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| raptelan | RandalSchwartz: just surprising to run into somebody I know when I just sign up for a new provider based on online reviews that are completely not connected to you :) | [19:21] |
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| DDevine | raptelan: He gets that a lot | [19:30] |
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| raptelan | raptelan wonders if others have created any openbsd-based distributions | [20:01] |
| zeeby | I think the need for other distro's rises when a project begins to veer in a direction you don't agree with
those of us who use obsd are probably pretty content with where it's at :-) Just a thought | [20:09] |
| raptelan | zeeby: I don't mean a fork, I mean a distribution.
zeeby: e.g. I don't want to fork openbsd, but I make a lot of changes to the default install (replacing the default init, mail system, dns server(s), http servers, logging subsystem, etc.) zeeby: if obsd's package management handled the core system, then I could just swap packages out or so, but it's not that flexible, and I end up modifying parts of the system that really aren't intended to be user-modified, which makes upgrading "fun". ;) | [20:10] |
| zeeby | raptelan, I guess. While I replace pretty much every thing that you mentioned, I can suffice doing so with packages for the most part and rarely have to go via ports method or compiling by hand. | [20:14] |
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| raptelan | zeeby: I use mostly packages.
zeeby: but for one example - I use nginx, and would like my documents to be in /var/www/<vhost>/htdocs. Since apache is included in the base install and not easily removable via the package management, /var/www is full of apache junk so it's not a clean/suitable place to use as it comes. zeeby: I've been just working around that by putting stuff in different locations and leaving the base installation alone. zeeby: but I'm thinking it might make sense to have a certain set of modifications made to a base install, that I then update for new releases, and create a custom base distribution. zeeby: really I'd be a lot happier if the package manager simply managed all of the base install stuff as well as user-added things. upgrading to 4.8-stable from -release installed the games, for instance, which I did not ever have installed previously. And I could hack all of the httpd files out of the base install, but any upgrade to a new release is just going to put them back. raptelan just pondering at this point; I've seen a number of freebsd distributions, but not any openbsd ones. | [20:24] |
| zeeby | raptelan, as to the 'package manager managing base install stuff - agreed 100%. | [20:45] |
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| Lefty | personally I don't think apache and such should be in base anyway | [21:45] |
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