RandalSchwartz: this week was busy; I thought u might be in for another week?  I never made it down to the data center
Hey, up_the_irons!
hey
What's up?
up_the_irons: o/
nothing
setting up some orders actually
anyone in London here
i'm in the UK coobra if that helps
bob^^:  :D
no
not realy
just wanted to know
ahh :)
i've got kit in london :)
coobra: Sweden
Doe that count? :P
Does*
kit ?
i suspect i'm nearer ;)
the robot "KIT"
equipment coobra - servers/routers etc :)
:D
ohhh
gimmi
no :)
dxtr: im from sweden im here on bett : http://www.bettshow.com/bett11/website/Home.aspx?refer=1
wtf is bett?
schoole thingy
Mkay
Where in sweden are you from?
stockholm/Värmdö you ?
Norrköping
cool
Immensely :)
My girlfriend is going to londong on the 19th though :P
err
London
cool
london is great
i will be admin ower the wifi + local webdev servers @work
:D
junior mini admin
:D
bob^^: In fact I think the entire UK looks like hell on eartyh
earth*
So I will probably never go there
Especially London
really?
hey everyone
man :(
Yeah
you've been looking at the wrong parts
Mainly the personal integrity
I don't want cameras at me wherever I go ./
well
cameras looking at me*
does anyone know if I can run centos with arpsnetwork?
ideas1: Should be possibe
possible*
Gah. Morning typos
i think its debian/ubntu ?
dxtr: don't believe everything you read :)
ideas1: Did you try googling?
not centos but i think it will be no probs
london might be like that, but the rest of the country isn't
yeah i googled it but nothing with this particular vps provider
bob^^: The rest of the country is rain and forests to me
i cant find reviews or anything
ideas1: try googling: centos km
err
centos kvm
dxtr: go look at Edinburgh
:)
derp derp
sorry
but yes, we have lots of rain - not much forest, just lots of countryside and nice little towns and villages :D
bob^^: Unfortunately I prefer civilization :)
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a0/Edinburgh_from_Scott_Monument.jpg <- It looks green... And gray
wow that beautiful
thats*
Doesn't look very modern
it's one of the most beautiful cities in the world :)
it's not modern dude, that's the point!
I don't see it, ut sure
but*
it's all at least 200 years old i guess
Why don't they blow it up and start over? 200 years is quite old
I like it modern. Think central Tokyo or Seoul
and lose all the architectural beauty
i live in california and all those buildings look like boxes
exactly
i like modern too - but not all the time
I don't see the "architectural beauty" in old crap anyway. I throw away things when they beome too old
become
lol
:(
It's gray and dull
lol
you should open your mind :)
you should, i wish more things had history and told a story
everything looks like boxes here :(
I did. That's when I realized I prefer functionality before age
i drink in a bar (well, pub) that's over 500 years old
american tourists come in
can you get corona over there?
it's fun to point out the bar is older than the US
:)
yup
i like corona :)
mexican beers are good, any english beers you recommend?
It's a hell to maintain old buildings (Been there, done that), they look boring and usually you don't get the functionality you get with modern building
buildings
yeah ideas1 - have you had proper beer or just lager (like corona) ?
(this sort of beer: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cask_ale )
And if you dare to modernize an old building you'll get the rage from old people
both we have a ton of local breweries aka micro breweries
mmm, micro breweries :D
my favourite british beer is Purity UBU (http://www.puritybrewing.com/) - they are my local brewery
i even watch soccer lol
american beer - i love sierra nevada pale ale :)
actually, you guys have a lot of very nice good beer
sierra nevada isnt bad
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newcastle_Brown_Ale
that's known here as 'newcky brown'
it *used* to be nice - but now it is brewed by another company, and is not very good :(
pronounced "noo-key"?
yup :)
nice lol im calling it that from now on here
:D
ill act like i knew that all along lol
hahaha - it might even say it on the back of the bottle
at one point they changed the label here so it said that :)
ohhh you didnt know it was called newky brown, rookie!?!
because no one calls it by the full name hehe
:D
Hmm
My sleeping girlfriend have rotated 90 degrees in the bed
That's quite impressive
sleeping?! it's 10:25! ;)
do you guys get these http://www.google.com/images?um=1&hl=en&tbs=isch:1&&sa=X&ei=fSQwTejROYS8sAPLmbSsBQ&ved=0CDMQvwUoAQ&q=corona+familiar&spell=1&biw=1680&bih=914
ooo, no, we don't
bob^^: Yeah, she's been sleeping for three hours :p
940ml of beer in one bottle
Okay, more like four
we just get these: http://www.crackedkettle.com/store/images/corona.jpg
:D
lol those are tiny
you do get some beers here in 1l bottles, but not too many
most of our beer comes as a pint - 568ml
or those sort of bottle, about 330ml :/
cheap beers come in huge sizes here, but good bears caps at about 940
bottles of good beer here are 500ml
which is really annoying
lol too big?
as you pour it into a pint (568ml) glass and it doesn't fill it... sigh
haha
sooo how was the moral about the english soccer team?
getting really expensive to drink here as well
did you guys fire your technical director?
bob^^: That's why you've got 50cl glass
dxtr: PINT!
Half a litre?
ideas1: i'm afraid i have no idea - i don't follow soccer/football at all :(
i'm a motorsport and rugby guy :)
cars or bikes?
pint = 568ml.. and we are very protective over our pint :)
cars ideas1 :D
single seaters mostly - f1, gp2 etc
nice
Half a litre = 50cl.. And we are very protective over our standardized metric system
a pint: http://www.darlocamra.org.uk/PintOnBar.jpg
stupid europeans
;)
lol
are you guys freebsd users?
Yep
here in the UK we are quite 'traditional' over weights and measures
yeah
it's still entirely normal here for everything to be inches, feet, yards and miles
and to buy fruit/vegetables by the ounce or pound
and beer by the pint
bob^^: I hate when I watch TV shows from the UK and they weigh stuff in "stone". I'm like "Can't two stones weigh differently?"
even though none of those are allowed in europe :D
haha :D
stone = 14 pounds
And wtf is a pound? Isn't that a currency?
pound = 454g
easy :D
Ridiculous
yeah that stone thing caught me off guard when i was watching some cage fights... 13 stones  i was like stones of what
i was expecting kilos
i'm sure ideas1 will agree that the pound is a very good measure for weight :)
no its stupid
google calculator to the rescue :D
kilos
What's wrong with kilos?
for science, sure
i like kilos
just doesn't fit for us here
Why not?
tradition i guess
its easy vs 16oz in 1 pound etc
Wtf is oz?
Isn't that a TV show?
see waht i mean
i would have nfi how heavy the average person is in kg, but i know in stone
oz = ounce
:D
My girlfriend got OZ tattoed on her chest
tattooed*
1 ounces = 28.3495231 grams
i guess one thing about the UK is that we... like to be different :)
lol
bob^^: Also who cares how heavy the average person is? :P
:D
I'm 55kg \o
14 stone
:D
It could be more like 20 stone though
Depending on how much the stones weigh
lol
im 13.2142857 stone
i had to convert it in google lol
Are we talking gravel or mountains?
:D
:)
ideas1: YOu're around my weight then, if we use the same stones
\
\o
185lbs
lbs?
83kg
Oh nevermind then
bob^^ confused me :P
I thought he weighed my 55kg in stones
:(
Another thing that bothers me is measuring stuff in feet
I mean, feet are of different sizes
yeah feet is a nightmare....12inchs in a foot
lol
Also inch bothers me
3 feet in a yeard
yard
etc etc etc
nightmare
imperial measurements are easy
:D
They're retarded
yes
When people give me those measurement I automatically say "yes"
why do freebsd guys get all mad at the linux guys?
we do? :(
Because the Linux guys thinks they know stuff while the FreeBSD guys actually knows stuff :p
that's probably true
HAHAHAHA
im feelings are hurt
you get a lot of people these days who think they're UNIX GODS because they've installed ubuntu
i hate ubuntu
I actually like Ubuntu
ubuntu is pretty good i think
Didn't like it a couple of versions ago. Now it's pretty good
for desktops, ideal
for servers, use freebsd :)
I'm gonna try PC-BSD someday
Never tried it
Parallels to the rescue!
i use linux all day at work, but i do want to try freebsd for a webhosting
freebsd jails <3
is jails like suphp?
uhm, no
https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/FreeBSD_jail
jails are brilliant
:O what the FUCK!!!!
THAT IS GENIUS
freebsd has had that for at least 10 years
it's why us freebsd guys are so smug :)
10 years <3
so i could create a sandbox for each user?
Yeah
basically, yup
or each service you run
or whatever you want, really :D
I think I should go buy some cigarettes
son of a bitch
Huh? :(
expression not calling anyone names
thats a pretty impressive feature
Yes it is
I have fapped numerous times to that feature
In fact my ex dumped me because I had an affair with jails
haha
thats love an passion right there
Yeah
But I found a new girlfriend who likes me for who I am and says it's okay that I sometimes get passionate with jails
lol i dont blame you
Also she said that it's okay, and in fact pushes me, to be passionate with my male friends. That is kind of awkward when I think about it
lol
its only gay if you make eye contact
That's what she says
But she's bi so she'll never understand
it's only gay if you push back
whats the best freebsd version to start with, i want to do some test
ideas1: The latest?
8
well, it's 8.1-RELEASE atm
i have my rhce test coming up maybe this will help lol
grab that, then update it using freebsd-update
ideas1: you can run cent, but you have to do the install yourself: http://support.arpnetworks.com/kb/vps/re-install-or-change-os
sounds good, i do want to try bsd but ill be honest ill be a bit scared lol
ports <3
i ventured into solaris one time and came back running
so ssh and iptables that all the same stuff?
init scripts same basic idea?
no iptables
:S whats the freebsd firewall
ipfw or pf
googling
If you come from openbsd pf is sweet. Otherwise I've gotten the feeling ipfw is recommended. But that's just a feeling and not an expert opinion :P
IPFW seems easy
but your right lots of pf vs ipfw discussion
kinda reminds me of ufw in ubuntu
Well, I never touch iptables
It's crap that shouldn't have been created in the first place
You know a firewall is crap when you need special tools to manage it
ipfw is good - but pf is what you should use now
if you get a box up ideas1 , do 'man hier' when you first log in
it explains the system hierarchy very well - where you can find scripts, where things are installed etc
http://www.freebsd.org/cgi/man.cgi?query=hier&apropos=0&sektion=0&manpath=FreeBSD+8.1-RELEASE&format=html
whats the default shell
sh
bash?
no
sh
like the OG shell
though during install you can adjust that - csh comes with it
Rookies... Aren't they cute? :D
(it's csh but a bit more like tcsh really)
you can install bash if you want to
I prefer zsh
well i have a bunch of backup shell scripts
the advice is to leave sh (or csh) as the root shell though
that id hate to lose lol
as any installed shell won't be mountable if something goes wrong with the filesystem
i use csh but i can still run bash scripts :)
cron and all that also works?
yes :)
cron isn't a part of bash though
yeah i know
bob^^: Isn't csh pretty... lightweight?
I remember I smash my keyboard everytime I'm forced to use it
does everything i want with a bit of tweaking in .cshrc
i find bash frustrating
How do you enable tab completion and stuff in it?
uh, it just does it
It does?
yup
So what is it that I always smash my keyboard for?
:P
not a clue
http://www.amazon.com/Absolute-FreeBSD-Complete-Guide-2nd/dp/1593271514/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1295003013&sr=8-1
http://www.amazon.com/Building-Server-FreeBSD-Bryan-Hong/dp/159327145X/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1295003066&sr=8-3
it does tab complete, command repetition, history etc
everything you need really
I might try it out then
:D
if it's in linux, it's probably also in freebsd - freebsd is a lot more closely related to a 'proper' unix
Will have to port my .zshrc though
the differences you find are likely to be that linux is a SysV style system (semaphores, runlevels etc) and BSD doesn't have that
but then
these days linux tends to hide that stuff anyways so *shrug*
oh, ideas1... another feature you might like
if you want to run software that *only* works on linux
then freebsd can emulate linux and run linux binaries
(sometimes faster than they actually run on a proper linux box, too)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FreeBSD#Linux_compatibility
nice
i only really use linux for server
for example i have a few www.kerio.com servers
however 99% of stuff you probably run on linux can be built on freebsd (or exists as a package) that won't need emulation :)
kerio connect runing on RHEL 5 (with subscription servers)
this is worth a read too: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FreeBSD_Ports
ports are one of the biggest 'cool features' of freebsd
bob^^: So what's the difference between cshrc and tcshrc?
Just curious :)
one's for csh and the other for tcsh? :)
iirc tcsh also reads .cshrc when you log in
i tend to just use the standard csh that comes with freebsd, and my own .cshrc
Aw man
Ofcourse I mean csh an tcsh
Silly me :p
the difference between free and open? is the paranoid level?
freebsd's licence is very different to that of a linux distro
ideas1: Free = Do whatever you want with it, open = view the source
Kind of
with a BSD licence you can take the code, adjust it, even sell it commercially as part of another product without returning anything to the project
with GPL, you can't commercially sell it without providing source, etc, and changes have to be commited back to the original project etc etc
this is why parts of FreeBSD can be found inside Windows and Mac
*Mac OSX
not sure how true it is these days, but back in Win2000 the IP stack was lifted straight from FreeBSD then modified slightly
(nmap used to detect Windows 2000 as FreeBSD)
Haha :D
:D
I think they created they have their own IP stack nowadays
Err
I think they have their own*
i think it's nslookup and ftp in windows (even current windows) that are lifted from freebsd too
I blame my bad writing on lack of sleep
:)
ports just gets teh source? then you compile and install?
No it gets teh source and compiles and installs
cd /usr/ports/www/apache && make install
that will download the source, compile and install
YOu can do a bunch of cool stuff with ports
or if you're feeling lazy and don't need to tweak any build knobs, you can just do pkg_add -r <port name>
seems very similar to gentoos portage
Yeah, that's because gentoos portage is kind of a rip-off
gentoo stole the idea from freebsd, so yup :)
ahh
i may have to get two vps
one to play with freebsd and one for centos
:D
a convert! :D
ill give it a shot
lol
you'll like it
and we're here to help :)
i would be scared to go live with it since i dont feel i know enough
ok let me sign up
there's #freebsd over on QuakeNet if you need anything too
well as long as they dont chew my head off lol
freebsd community tends to be pretty friendly
nah, you'll be fine - i'm an op over there :)
:)
why is there a limit of only 1vps per customer?
is there? :(
ideas1: No it isn't
?
For new orders only, limit 1 per customer
Special also applies for any Linux distro we offer
ah :(
must be running low on slots :(
well that throws a monkey wrench in my plan
well
linode isnt freebsd friendly lol
you could head over to amazon ec2 and register for their free thing
freebsd 9 has just become available on amazon ec2, but it's not guaranteed for production use yet
and it won't be quite as easy to set up
try rootbsd
you could always ask up_the_irons - he might make an exception?
ideas1: But ask up_the_irons. Perhaps it's just one *NEW* order per customer+<
?
https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/List_of_fictional_raccoons
ideas1: no, you can order 10, i don't care ;)
Please credit the sale to <dxtr> and <bob^^>.
just placed the order
yep, my phone just buzzed
dxtr: bob^^ : thank you guys :)
:)
up_the_irons \o
so i can order a freebsd one and a centos one right?
yup
up_the_irons: From now on you'll be my sexual advisor
!
You owe it to me
ideas1: yup
damn dxtr is demanding
srsly
Imagine that resume
"Code slave, sysadmin and sexual advisor"
lol
THINK OF THE POSSIBILITIES!
anyway, time for me to go grab some lunch, back later :)
Then I'll go buy my delicious cigarettes
lol thanks for all the rookie help guys
ideas1: Hey, I'll be back in 15 minutes or so :P
soudns good
good night guys 330am here
do other people see just one cpu, or is it just me?
it's just one virtual cpu, yes
oh it sounded like it was more than one on website
Multiple CPUs (SMP) supported
for the VPS?
not in the existing plans
is that some kvm issue?
no, just a sales issue :)
like it can't fair queue
oh hmm
I imagine you could negotiate a different deal
so they're all liek that?
i don't really know how much it bothers me
where do you see "multiple cpus (smp) supported" on http://arpnetworks.com/vps ?
oh.
like i don't think i'm liekly to need that much cpu or anything
right... in the rihgt column
yaeh
yeah, you could probably get it for more money
but all the plans on the left are single cpu
it says all vps's include!
*sigh*
at least it seems ok performance
well, they don't get an A for english, then. :)
keep in mind, your IO is all virtual
it seems about same speed as poweredge 1750
so while on a dedicated box, you'd want a second cpu to handle interrupt stuff
which are old school p4 liek xeons
you don't need that here, since that happens "off" your box
interrupt stuff?
IO
oh i haven't even really checked disk performance
dma, interrupt handling, etc
it seems ok
some here have said "how do they get the virtual disk so *fast*"
I haven't compared.  seems fast 'nuff. :)
oh real?
yeah
i've got a few vps's, and a few hardware things at work
and doign opensolaris/xen at work too
and different hardware can vary with disk speeds a lot
thing i've found is most noticable is when there's battery backed write cache
thing is with that though is as soon as you write too much it's still slow
and mostly you notice it extracting tar balls etc it just finishes quicker
but that doesn't necessarily mean it's going to give really good disk performance.  just noticably good.
i'm assuing it's just fast disks in raid 10 without too many users?
and with spare ram for disk caching
what's a way to check disk speed anyway?
without doing something long like bonnie
314572800 bytes transferred in 13.229 secs (23778312 bytes/sec)
that's dd if=/dev/zero of=testzero bs=1024k count=300
23 megs/sec
314572800 bytes transferred in 5.154 secs (61025787 bytes/sec)
that's a poweredge 1850 with raid 1 on old scsi disks
so it's not amazing?
but as long as it doesn't get to 1/100th that speed all is good :)
314572800 bytes transferred in 4.131 secs (76142619 bytes/sec)
and that's one with battery backed write cache
sorry, getting ready for work here
wandered away :)
still need to be concentrating on that
heh
but I'll be around all day, off and on
it's like 3 am here :)
haha that's what i'm like
I've had 4 VPS here (various sizes) for a year
oh wow
still very happy
well i'm glad to finally be able to run openbsd :)0
:)
random, i ran it again and it was faster.
jlgaddis: yes, www.ipv6.facebook.com is,  but that isn't their main URL.   www.facebook.com (and facebook.com) is.   thats what June 8th (world IPv6 day) is about.
jlgaddis: facebook, google, yahoo, and a few other big players will add AAAA records to their MAIN URL's for a minimum of 24 hours, as a test.
hocool
i can't resolve that what
according to something I saw recently on he.net, you can actually get a faster net experience (a bit) by using ipv6
presuming you're not tunneled to start with
yeah
well i can get better speeds with their tunnel
actually that reminds me i was going to test taht
betwen two end points i jumped frmo 1.6 to 4.6 mb/sec or something
I like how I can have five tunnels
I have one that terminates in LA
and another in London
megabytes that is
the london one is handy for watching iplayer :)
i am using all 5 of mine up
i have three that terminate in LA
and one that terminates in london
and the other one ic an't remember where it is
won't that need ipv4?
i've got a xen vps in the uk
oh i have 4 in LA now
i want more :(
or more people to support ipv6
2051k average, versus 1701k average
it's faster...
gah it's still skipping
time to wander off to work
work hard :/
although, you won't notice here...
since it'll just mean I'm quiet for a few minutes. :)
heh
that's my trick!
Terminal.app -> ssh -> screen -> emacs -> irc.el
tried tmux?
the magic is in the "screen"
tried yes.
it's like screen but better
didn't like it?
it was missing a few common features for me
can't remember what
they might be there now
i hardly use any features
yeah, in that case, you might be satisfied easier than I was
is tmux in base on freebsd yet?
just multiple windows and attach/detach
i know they were tryin to add it
*trying
tmux is a port
not sure, i know it's in base in openbsd
I doubt it'll ever be a base
shift to openbsd :/
did openbsd for four years
very happy to have moved to freebsd
haha
freebsd = zfs-on-root + pf + huge ports catalog
openbsd, not so much
http://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-current/2009-September/011762.html
looks like it might appear eventually
just theo's paranoi
yaeh,
paranoia
zfs is cool
I have four boxes all with zfs for /
it's why i'm doing opensolaris/xen
no ufs at all
I tried opensolaris
but with the legal uncertainty, it's a mess now
i hate opensolaris
oracle is ruining everything sun stood for
yeah well we're already using it
it's very sad :(
i know :(
I had an amazon ec2 instance for six months on opensol
moved that here as soon as I discovered ARP
oh you're running opensolaris on arp?
no - I ported back to freebsd
it was openbsd -> opensol -> freebsd
ahh
i can't stand opensolaris
but...
it hasn't really given many issues
the management stuff is interesting
powerful, but arcane
and as a virtualisation platform i haven't foudnanything better
I find freebsd's rc.d files to be much more to my liking
vmware esx... linux vserver... openvz...
none of them sounding that exciting
never tried kvm properly, i tried it on desktop and it wouldn't go
i think it crashed my computer
or just didn't work
then i tried virtualbox
for the same thing, and it went :/
virtualbox is terrible for cpu idle i think from memory
bob did you ever use opensolaris?
nah
i've used proper solaris though
(solaris 9 and 10)
(actually, 8, 9 and 10!)
ahh
i've used solaris 7
i guess it's not too different
it's all dirty
i quite liked solaris
<3 CDE :)
haha
used to run it on my sun ultra30 :D
when i'm "working"
i use ion
otherwise i've been using windows heh
yeah tbh i've gone back to using windows on my work machines :(
i have some really shitty sparc somewhere
it was really slow
i'd love to get a decent mac
ssh key generation was noticably like
delayed
hehe yeah the u30 wasn't exactly fast :)
and it's frame buffer was omg-slow
i remember putting openbsd on it
and trying to build X
it took over a week
i put openbsd on mine
i didn't compile on it though i think
tbh, i can't remember if i let it finish
it didn't have much ram as well
i think i got bored and re-installed slowlaris
heh
slowaris really is slow
mine had 512mb iirc - and quite a big scsi disk
still.. i had 64bit before everyone else :D
512mb is lots
aren't all sparcs 64 bit?
for the u30, it was really nicely specc'd
had a creator3d in it too
yeah merky, i think so :)
i stuck openbsd on some 1u sparc too
i can't remember what kind
sparc is nice
we had a box on trial from sun a couple of years ago
T2000 iirc
it was beatiful and had 64 sparc procs in it iirc
and 64gb of ram or something stupid
heh
and 8 little SAS disks in the front
it makes a lot less sense now
such nice hardware - all brushed aluminium
but a while back
pc rackmount hardware was real lame
well actually
pc server hardware in general was lame
yeah
its' got better over the yaers thuogh
bu oh well
solaris is dead
as good as dead at least
I used solaris 1 and 2 :)
back when it was called sunos 4 and sunos 5
huh?
1991-ish
i used sunos
yaeh
sun3/60
solaris 1 was the distro that had sunos 4 in it
and solaris 2 was the distro of sunos 5
hehe
oh taht reminds me
although a lot of people at the time just said "sunos" vs "solaris"
i have some sparc clone i was goign to get going some time
but i never got aroundto it
it's probably in my garage
we had mostly sun4's in the server room
i've had it for years
and sun3's on desktops
yeah
optical mice
that need a special pad
a grand total of 16GB of disk for 40 engineers!
and are bulky like amiga mice
that's FOUR HUNDED MEGABYTES PER USER
rebooting to install 10.6.6
andyou canshare binaries etc
andsave space
macos?
i can't remembe rseeing a sun4
http://web.archive.org/web/20000817004025/www.sparcproductdirectory.com/19rack-10.html
they're all ugly
good, that semes to have worked
upgrades are always a bit of risk
anyone want a wuala invite?
what's wuala?
like dropbox, 2GB initial, but you can get more just by sharing *your* hard drive space of an always-on machine
also strong encryption... they don't have your cleartext
so, unlike dropbox. :)
oh weird.
I'm sharing 50GB of my home server with them, and now I have 50GB of cloud storage
i had that idea :/
I use it to transfer stuff between home and laptop
what net speed does it need?
not dialup :)
heh
you can set the clients to throttle
interesting idea
i have bw limit on my home connection
if you go to the site, you get 1GB, but I have invites that start you at 2
anyone want one?
randalschwartz: since they have bins I presume it's not open source?
yeah, not open source
oh 2gb isn't that much
but built on many o/s technologies
2gb isn't much... it's the trading of space that makes it intersting
you can also just outright rent space too
like dropbox
can you rsync etc to it?
sorta.
are there other companies that are open source that do this?
they give you a netdrive equivalent
or is there some annoying api?
it's done with FUSE
so it's a little weird
the problem is that it's encrypted locally before shipping
so you have to have some local driver intercept the calls
monetizing unutilized bandwidth and unlimited electricity in my office and idle and empty disks seems like a good idea to me ;-)
don't think i have a need for it
toddf - want an invite?
randalschwartz: dunno, I run only openbsd, so ... ;-)
qos it
oh - not sure they have a client for that
they have some sort of command-line client that runs under linux emulation mode for freebsd
there is a 'compile from source' option, woah
openbsd can actually run linux and freebsd binaries in theory
http://www.dropbox.com/downloading?os=lnx
its much better to run native, freebsd/linux emulation works for some things, but it comes down to which system calls are used, some newer ones are not emulated at all
ahh ok
pedants would say your terminology is a bit off
i haven't used it in ages
i haven't run openbsd as a desktop in ages
like calling "wine" an emulator :)
s/emulated/mapped/
freebsd doesn't "emulate" linux
i used to use it as a desktop and use opera under emulation
yeah - it can use a different mapping of syscalls
s/emulated/implemented/
so there's no indirection there
just a bit set in the process table
it used to be that it used old redhat binaries
for libc etc
still does, as I recall
i can't say i've kept up with it
oh btw
can freebsd 64 bit kernel run 32 bit apps?
I suspect so
linux can
i have found in the past openbsd can't :/
yeah - my 64-bit machine here has a lib32.so
so I presume that's the old lib interface
hmm
the source has a libnautilus extension, so in theory it should work
maybe i should try out freebsd sometime
cos mostly i just want openbgpd, relayd, pf etc
which all aren't on linux
but all seem to be on freebsd too
i wonder if they're on netbsd
netbsd seemed cleaner than freebsd last time i looked
and the reason you don't want to try OpenBSD is ? ;-)
the migration from OpenBSD to the other BSD's lags somewhat..
hmm, it talks about the open source dropbox plugin downloading the dropbox binary, hmm
i'm already using openbsd :)
i'm mostly worried about the whole network speed thign with openbsd.
sorry, probably missed some prior scrollback
network speed thing?
not enough development seems to be happening
what typeof network speed are you worried about?
oh
WTF?
"NOT ENOUGH DEVELOPMENT" ????
openbsd only just added automatic receive window scaling
you are obviously not reading source-changes nor tech
but it only works if the other end supports tcp timestmaps
development happens
but i mean network stuff is a bit lagged behind freebsd etc.
none of that has anything to do with routing and firewalling
oh yaeh, but as far as hosting stuff on it
it only effects userland apps serving content (httpd, etc)
yeah i know
well
i live in new zealand, and using openbsd on raw hardware as routers
I've had no issues hosting content on openbsd and am willing to take a performance hit if it happens to have a more secure system. I know that's not everyone.
and found it fine..
well yaeh, -current has new window scaling code in it
but it requires the other end to have tcp timestamps enabled.
that's the main gotcha i i have with openbsd.
amd tjat
and that's mostly abotu usig relayd etc.
you can force set a socket buffer size
randalschwartz: I'll let you know if I want an invite, I'll setup a test account with a generic email etc and if I can do it fully open source, then I'll accept the invite, otherwise not worth my time
anyway, 4.9 should be a bit better for network performance of daemons etc.
merky: openbsd is not against people sending diffs.. ;-)
toddf: yeah well i still wasn't sure exactly what i was doing
i tried posting to the dev mailing lsit..
i tried hacking the source
but it's kind of complicated.
and i don't understand everything
have you ever got a diff accepted?
grep todd /dev/MAKEDEV
so you can understand I have some bias ;-)
ahhh..
well i dunno
is it okay to look at freebsd code or something for inspiration?
it's bad to look at linux code cos of licensing?
and if code ends up too similar can be complicated?
no point in reinventing the wheel, credit from where it came from, bsd or similarly licensed is fine, linux if you read for docs but don't borrow code tends to be ok
hmm
maybe i should check freebsd
basically i just want window scaling to work without tcp timestamps
sounds like you do need to check that other os's perform 'better' for your application. otherwise you're wasting your time wading in the code. ;-)
do you have an application or just want the feature?
international tcp/ip performance is quite noticable
umm international web browisng
through squid as a proxy..
i suppose i need to find a way to record what sites have tcp time stamps on
like tcp dump maye
but on linux /proc/sys/net/ipv4/tcp_timestamps being 0
scientific method and all that, you have to be able to have numerics behind your claims that things are slower or you don't know if you've fixed them to be faster when you change the source
makes -current go at 60k/sec or something internationally
well it's real obivous
i mean
it's a known limitation
from what claudio said
he went and took out net.inet.tcp.recvspace
trying out the Mac App store.  Just downloaded Twitter with it... very slick
oh they actually did that?
i thought that'd be in macos 10.7
new in 10.6.6
the rest of the interface mangling comes in 10.7, I'm told
is 10.6.6 much better?
gah i should go to bed
so the dropbox open source system is an interface to their proprietary daemon
http://forums.dropbox.com/topic.php?id=3107
interesting read
merky: no, 10.6.6 has no major changes other than the app store (misc bugfixes/performance improvements though)
... updating is generally a good idea, but it's not OMG YOU HAVE TO RIGHT NOW.
so for the fun and adventuresome I've re-packed a program file wuala distributes to x86 unixen .. it contained linux swt class files checking into linux .so objects, replace them with openbsd objects, and wallah, gui works!
yeay!
http://todd.fries.net/private/Wuala.368 -> wuala/Program4/Wuala.368 on OpenBSD/i386 and presto
presuming you have jdk installed blah blah
and then you too can have dropbox-like filesharing, but better
time to see if nfs works, after I see the TOS
I specifically will be looking to find the 'share my disk for profit' details
haha
toddf: "voila", not "wallah" ;)
Lefty: you get the idea in any event
true, true
that's the nice thing about shared objects
they make things portable!
(in theory)
bah, account creation failed because of some swt class not present
next round of 'how can I hack/fix this' ;-)
wuala tells me you're activated
oh weird.  I got the email, but nothing in the wuala interface
yeah, signin is finding more swt classes wuala adds in their hidden (wuala/Program4/Wuala.368) class library, so I'm adding them as it `notifies me' in full dialog alert mode
-nogui permits login
looks like nfs needs to be enabled in the gui, continuing gui crash and fix mode
:P
oh look, there you are in my friend request list
by the way, you get all the "pro" features (backup and sync etc) just by sharing even the smallest amount of disk
I'm still fighting the gui, but presuming I get that fixed, I'll be shairing more than a small amount of disk presuming I get $$ for the effort, where's the link to do that or is it in the gui also?
you don't get $$.  you get cloudspace.
the cloudspace *would have cost you $$*
you really were distracted on that phone call. :)
yeah, indeed
but for example, I now have 64GB of cloudspace
so I can share big files with my friends, or slowly transfer a lot of data from my home drobo to my work laptop while I'm on the road
I could have *paid* for that with dropbox, but it's free with wuala
in fact, if I get it large enough, I can use it to automatically make cloud-safe my pictures during a trip
just point wuala at my Aperture library
how does it work if your shared space goes away (say disk failure, etc) ?
say you have 64g shared to them in the cloud, but then you loose net/disk/etc .. do you get to plop in a new disk and share it again within e.g. 2 days and all is good or do you pay for 2 days of 64gb etc?
it drifts by 3% a day
weighted average
and they keep your stuff on the cloud... you just can't get to it
it seemed like they really wanted to be forgiving of possible failure modes
but they do eventually have to notify you of impending deletion
I presume they have a policy in place to not have people abuse that, upload 128gb, drop the local 128gb share, a year later, new 128gb share and re-download the data .. etc
yeah, it looked sensible
involving notifications and such
so in essense by serving them some less reliable disk I get them to have more reliable disk to store data into
seems that way :)
wonder if there's a xfer limit or what their policy is on their end wrt data storage, I presume they expect most people to purchase rather than share, and those that share permit them to monetize the shared disk space, sure would be nice if we could share disk space and make money off it also
obviously at a lesser rate than they'd charge for it
will sure be nice when the api is available, having java classes auto downloaded with shared libraries doesn't give me warm fuzzies
http://www.wuala.com/en/api
presto
booh, its only supporting public access at this time.
Sorry, but if that's anything like the Lacie drives I've had in the past, no thanks. :)
lol
lacie just bought them this past year
so bottom line is, they have a teaser of an open api, closed source ``security'' algorithms in java that downloads shared libs to your disk and uses them instead of your shared libs .. hmm.... I think I'll wait till I can inspect an openly implemented client of wuava or anything similar
hey do you guys know how long it usually takes to get your account info, I signed up last night but havent heard anything
*?
activations happen overnight, so if it didn't happen last night, chances are better tonight. depends on available hardware and such. if it is delayed a few days due to hardware acquisition, its worth it, anybody here will attest to that.
sounds good todd thanks
have you guys tried tarsnap? it works great
 new to bsd, is the closest thing to pf on linux iptables?
i couldnt find a port
ideas1: yes, pf==BSD and iptables==linux. In BSD pf isn't a port, it's part of the base system. See man pf.conf and http://www.openbsd.org/faq/pf/