***: schmir has joined #arpnetworks up_the_irons: RandalSchwartz: this week was busy; I thought u might be in for another week? I never made it down to the data center dxtr: Hey, up_the_irons! up_the_irons: hey dxtr: What's up? coobra: up_the_irons: o/ up_the_irons: nothing
setting up some orders actually coobra: anyone in London here bob^^: i'm in the UK coobra if that helps coobra: bob^^: :D
no
not realy
just wanted to know bob^^: ahh :)
i've got kit in london :) dxtr: coobra: Sweden
Doe that count? :P
Does* coobra: kit ? bob^^: i suspect i'm nearer ;) coobra: the robot "KIT" bob^^: equipment coobra - servers/routers etc :) coobra: :D
ohhh
gimmi bob^^: no :) coobra: dxtr: im from sweden im here on bett : http://www.bettshow.com/bett11/website/Home.aspx?refer=1 dxtr: wtf is bett? coobra: schoole thingy dxtr: Mkay
Where in sweden are you from? coobra: stockholm/Värmdö you ? dxtr: Norrköping coobra: cool dxtr: Immensely :)
My girlfriend is going to londong on the 19th though :P
err
London coobra: cool bob^^: london is great coobra: i will be admin ower the wifi + local webdev servers @work
:D
junior mini admin
:D dxtr: bob^^: In fact I think the entire UK looks like hell on eartyh
earth*
So I will probably never go there ***: ideas1 has joined #arpnetworks dxtr: Especially London bob^^: really? ideas1: hey everyone bob^^: man :( dxtr: Yeah bob^^: you've been looking at the wrong parts dxtr: Mainly the personal integrity
I don't want cameras at me wherever I go ./ coobra: well dxtr: cameras looking at me* ideas1: does anyone know if I can run centos with arpsnetwork? dxtr: ideas1: Should be possibe
possible*
Gah. Morning typos coobra: i think its debian/ubntu ? bob^^: dxtr: don't believe everything you read :) dxtr: ideas1: Did you try googling? coobra: not centos but i think it will be no probs bob^^: london might be like that, but the rest of the country isn't ideas1: yeah i googled it but nothing with this particular vps provider dxtr: bob^^: The rest of the country is rain and forests to me ideas1: i cant find reviews or anything dxtr: ideas1: try googling: centos km
err
centos kvm bob^^: dxtr: go look at Edinburgh
:) ideas1: derp derp
sorry bob^^: but yes, we have lots of rain - not much forest, just lots of countryside and nice little towns and villages :D dxtr: bob^^: Unfortunately I prefer civilization :)
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a0/Edinburgh_from_Scott_Monument.jpg <- It looks green... And gray ideas1: wow that beautiful
thats* dxtr: Doesn't look very modern bob^^: it's one of the most beautiful cities in the world :)
it's not modern dude, that's the point! dxtr: I don't see it, ut sure
but* bob^^: it's all at least 200 years old i guess dxtr: Why don't they blow it up and start over? 200 years is quite old
I like it modern. Think central Tokyo or Seoul ideas1: and lose all the architectural beauty
i live in california and all those buildings look like boxes bob^^: exactly
i like modern too - but not all the time dxtr: I don't see the "architectural beauty" in old crap anyway. I throw away things when they beome too old
become ideas1: lol bob^^: :( dxtr: It's gray and dull ideas1: lol bob^^: you should open your mind :) ideas1: you should, i wish more things had history and told a story
everything looks like boxes here :( dxtr: I did. That's when I realized I prefer functionality before age ***: schmir has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection) bob^^: i drink in a bar (well, pub) that's over 500 years old
american tourists come in ideas1: can you get corona over there? bob^^: it's fun to point out the bar is older than the US
:)
yup
i like corona :) ideas1: mexican beers are good, any english beers you recommend? dxtr: It's a hell to maintain old buildings (Been there, done that), they look boring and usually you don't get the functionality you get with modern building
buildings bob^^: yeah ideas1 - have you had proper beer or just lager (like corona) ?
(this sort of beer: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cask_ale ) dxtr: And if you dare to modernize an old building you'll get the rage from old people ideas1: both we have a ton of local breweries aka micro breweries bob^^: mmm, micro breweries :D
my favourite british beer is Purity UBU (http://www.puritybrewing.com/) - they are my local brewery ideas1: i even watch soccer lol bob^^: american beer - i love sierra nevada pale ale :)
actually, you guys have a lot of very nice good beer ideas1: sierra nevada isnt bad
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newcastle_Brown_Ale ***: schmir has joined #arpnetworks bob^^: that's known here as 'newcky brown'
it *used* to be nice - but now it is brewed by another company, and is not very good :( ideas1: pronounced "noo-key"? bob^^: yup :) ideas1: nice lol im calling it that from now on here bob^^: :D ideas1: ill act like i knew that all along lol bob^^: hahaha - it might even say it on the back of the bottle
at one point they changed the label here so it said that :) ideas1: ohhh you didnt know it was called newky brown, rookie!?! bob^^: because no one calls it by the full name hehe
:D dxtr: Hmm
My sleeping girlfriend have rotated 90 degrees in the bed
That's quite impressive bob^^: sleeping?! it's 10:25! ;) ideas1: do you guys get these http://www.google.com/images?um=1&hl=en&tbs=isch:1&&sa=X&ei=fSQwTejROYS8sAPLmbSsBQ&ved=0CDMQvwUoAQ&q=corona+familiar&spell=1&biw=1680&bih=914 bob^^: ooo, no, we don't dxtr: bob^^: Yeah, she's been sleeping for three hours :p ideas1: 940ml of beer in one bottle dxtr: Okay, more like four bob^^: we just get these: http://www.crackedkettle.com/store/images/corona.jpg
:D ideas1: lol those are tiny bob^^: you do get some beers here in 1l bottles, but not too many
most of our beer comes as a pint - 568ml
or those sort of bottle, about 330ml :/ ideas1: cheap beers come in huge sizes here, but good bears caps at about 940 bob^^: bottles of good beer here are 500ml
which is really annoying ideas1: lol too big? bob^^: as you pour it into a pint (568ml) glass and it doesn't fill it... sigh ideas1: haha
sooo how was the moral about the english soccer team? bob^^: getting really expensive to drink here as well ideas1: did you guys fire your technical director? dxtr: bob^^: That's why you've got 50cl glass bob^^: dxtr: PINT! dxtr: Half a litre? bob^^: ideas1: i'm afraid i have no idea - i don't follow soccer/football at all :(
i'm a motorsport and rugby guy :) ideas1: cars or bikes? bob^^: pint = 568ml.. and we are very protective over our pint :)
cars ideas1 :D
single seaters mostly - f1, gp2 etc ideas1: nice dxtr: Half a litre = 50cl.. And we are very protective over our standardized metric system bob^^: a pint: http://www.darlocamra.org.uk/PintOnBar.jpg
stupid europeans
;) ideas1: lol
are you guys freebsd users? dxtr: Yep bob^^: here in the UK we are quite 'traditional' over weights and measures
yeah
it's still entirely normal here for everything to be inches, feet, yards and miles
and to buy fruit/vegetables by the ounce or pound
and beer by the pint dxtr: bob^^: I hate when I watch TV shows from the UK and they weigh stuff in "stone". I'm like "Can't two stones weigh differently?" bob^^: even though none of those are allowed in europe :D
haha :D
stone = 14 pounds dxtr: And wtf is a pound? Isn't that a currency? bob^^: pound = 454g
easy :D dxtr: Ridiculous ideas1: yeah that stone thing caught me off guard when i was watching some cage fights... 13 stones i was like stones of what
i was expecting kilos bob^^: i'm sure ideas1 will agree that the pound is a very good measure for weight :) ideas1: no its stupid bob^^: google calculator to the rescue :D ideas1: kilos dxtr: What's wrong with kilos? bob^^: for science, sure ideas1: i like kilos bob^^: just doesn't fit for us here dxtr: Why not? bob^^: tradition i guess ideas1: its easy vs 16oz in 1 pound etc dxtr: Wtf is oz?
Isn't that a TV show? ideas1: see waht i mean bob^^: i would have nfi how heavy the average person is in kg, but i know in stone
oz = ounce
:D dxtr: My girlfriend got OZ tattoed on her chest
tattooed* ideas1: 1 ounces = 28.3495231 grams bob^^: i guess one thing about the UK is that we... like to be different :) ideas1: lol dxtr: bob^^: Also who cares how heavy the average person is? :P bob^^: :D dxtr: I'm 55kg o -: bob^^ shrugs bob^^: 14 stone
:D dxtr: It could be more like 20 stone though
Depending on how much the stones weigh bob^^: lol ideas1: im 13.2142857 stone
i had to convert it in google lol dxtr: Are we talking gravel or mountains? bob^^: :D ideas1: :) dxtr: ideas1: YOu're around my weight then, if we use the same stones
[02:29] <dxtr> o ideas1: 185lbs dxtr: lbs? ideas1: 83kg dxtr: Oh nevermind then
bob^^ confused me :P
I thought he weighed my 55kg in stones bob^^: :( dxtr: Another thing that bothers me is measuring stuff in feet
I mean, feet are of different sizes ideas1: yeah feet is a nightmare....12inchs in a foot
lol dxtr: Also inch bothers me ideas1: 3 feet in a yeard
yard
etc etc etc
nightmare bob^^: imperial measurements are easy
:D dxtr: They're retarded ideas1: yes dxtr: When people give me those measurement I automatically say "yes" ideas1: why do freebsd guys get all mad at the linux guys? bob^^: we do? :( dxtr: Because the Linux guys thinks they know stuff while the FreeBSD guys actually knows stuff :p bob^^: that's probably true ideas1: HAHAHAHA
im feelings are hurt bob^^: you get a lot of people these days who think they're UNIX GODS because they've installed ubuntu ideas1: i hate ubuntu dxtr: I actually like Ubuntu bob^^: ubuntu is pretty good i think dxtr: Didn't like it a couple of versions ago. Now it's pretty good bob^^: for desktops, ideal
for servers, use freebsd :) dxtr: I'm gonna try PC-BSD someday
Never tried it
Parallels to the rescue! ideas1: i use linux all day at work, but i do want to try freebsd for a webhosting dxtr: freebsd jails <3 ideas1: is jails like suphp? dxtr: uhm, no
https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/FreeBSD_jail bob^^: jails are brilliant ideas1: :O what the FUCK!!!!
THAT IS GENIUS bob^^: freebsd has had that for at least 10 years
it's why us freebsd guys are so smug :) dxtr: 10 years <3 ideas1: so i could create a sandbox for each user? dxtr: Yeah bob^^: basically, yup
or each service you run
or whatever you want, really :D dxtr: I think I should go buy some cigarettes ideas1: son of a bitch dxtr: Huh? :( ideas1: expression not calling anyone names
thats a pretty impressive feature dxtr: Yes it is
I have fapped numerous times to that feature
In fact my ex dumped me because I had an affair with jails ideas1: haha
thats love an passion right there dxtr: Yeah
But I found a new girlfriend who likes me for who I am and says it's okay that I sometimes get passionate with jails ideas1: lol i dont blame you dxtr: Also she said that it's okay, and in fact pushes me, to be passionate with my male friends. That is kind of awkward when I think about it ideas1: lol
its only gay if you make eye contact dxtr: That's what she says
But she's bi so she'll never understand bob^^: it's only gay if you push back ideas1: whats the best freebsd version to start with, i want to do some test dxtr: ideas1: The latest? bob^^: 8 -: up_the_irons thinks he should start making CentOS base templates bob^^: well, it's 8.1-RELEASE atm ideas1: i have my rhce test coming up maybe this will help lol bob^^: grab that, then update it using freebsd-update up_the_irons: ideas1: you can run cent, but you have to do the install yourself: http://support.arpnetworks.com/kb/vps/re-install-or-change-os ideas1: sounds good, i do want to try bsd but ill be honest ill be a bit scared lol dxtr: ports <3 ideas1: i ventured into solaris one time and came back running
so ssh and iptables that all the same stuff?
init scripts same basic idea? dxtr: no iptables ideas1: :S whats the freebsd firewall dxtr: ipfw or pf ideas1: googling dxtr: If you come from openbsd pf is sweet. Otherwise I've gotten the feeling ipfw is recommended. But that's just a feeling and not an expert opinion :P ideas1: IPFW seems easy
but your right lots of pf vs ipfw discussion
kinda reminds me of ufw in ubuntu dxtr: Well, I never touch iptables
It's crap that shouldn't have been created in the first place
You know a firewall is crap when you need special tools to manage it bob^^: ipfw is good - but pf is what you should use now
if you get a box up ideas1 , do 'man hier' when you first log in
it explains the system hierarchy very well - where you can find scripts, where things are installed etc
http://www.freebsd.org/cgi/man.cgi?query=hier&apropos=0&sektion=0&manpath=FreeBSD+8.1-RELEASE&format=html ideas1: whats the default shell bob^^: sh ideas1: bash? bob^^: no
sh ideas1: like the OG shell bob^^: though during install you can adjust that - csh comes with it dxtr: Rookies... Aren't they cute? :D bob^^: (it's csh but a bit more like tcsh really)
you can install bash if you want to dxtr: I prefer zsh ideas1: well i have a bunch of backup shell scripts bob^^: the advice is to leave sh (or csh) as the root shell though ideas1: that id hate to lose lol bob^^: as any installed shell won't be mountable if something goes wrong with the filesystem
i use csh but i can still run bash scripts :) ideas1: cron and all that also works? bob^^: yes :) dxtr: cron isn't a part of bash though ideas1: yeah i know dxtr: bob^^: Isn't csh pretty... lightweight?
I remember I smash my keyboard everytime I'm forced to use it bob^^: does everything i want with a bit of tweaking in .cshrc
i find bash frustrating dxtr: How do you enable tab completion and stuff in it? bob^^: uh, it just does it dxtr: It does? bob^^: yup dxtr: So what is it that I always smash my keyboard for?
:P bob^^: not a clue ideas1: http://www.amazon.com/Absolute-FreeBSD-Complete-Guide-2nd/dp/1593271514/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1295003013&sr=8-1
http://www.amazon.com/Building-Server-FreeBSD-Bryan-Hong/dp/159327145X/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1295003066&sr=8-3 bob^^: it does tab complete, command repetition, history etc
everything you need really dxtr: I might try it out then
:D bob^^: if it's in linux, it's probably also in freebsd - freebsd is a lot more closely related to a 'proper' unix dxtr: Will have to port my .zshrc though bob^^: the differences you find are likely to be that linux is a SysV style system (semaphores, runlevels etc) and BSD doesn't have that
but then
these days linux tends to hide that stuff anyways so *shrug*
oh, ideas1... another feature you might like
if you want to run software that *only* works on linux
then freebsd can emulate linux and run linux binaries
(sometimes faster than they actually run on a proper linux box, too)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FreeBSD#Linux_compatibility ideas1: nice
i only really use linux for server
for example i have a few www.kerio.com servers bob^^: however 99% of stuff you probably run on linux can be built on freebsd (or exists as a package) that won't need emulation :) ideas1: kerio connect runing on RHEL 5 (with subscription servers) bob^^: this is worth a read too: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FreeBSD_Ports
ports are one of the biggest 'cool features' of freebsd dxtr: bob^^: So what's the difference between cshrc and tcshrc?
Just curious :) bob^^: one's for csh and the other for tcsh? :)
iirc tcsh also reads .cshrc when you log in
i tend to just use the standard csh that comes with freebsd, and my own .cshrc dxtr: Aw man
Ofcourse I mean csh an tcsh
Silly me :p ideas1: the difference between free and open? is the paranoid level? bob^^: freebsd's licence is very different to that of a linux distro dxtr: ideas1: Free = Do whatever you want with it, open = view the source
Kind of bob^^: with a BSD licence you can take the code, adjust it, even sell it commercially as part of another product without returning anything to the project
with GPL, you can't commercially sell it without providing source, etc, and changes have to be commited back to the original project etc etc
this is why parts of FreeBSD can be found inside Windows and Mac
*Mac OSX
not sure how true it is these days, but back in Win2000 the IP stack was lifted straight from FreeBSD then modified slightly
(nmap used to detect Windows 2000 as FreeBSD) dxtr: Haha :D coobra: :D dxtr: I think they created they have their own IP stack nowadays
Err
I think they have their own* bob^^: i think it's nslookup and ftp in windows (even current windows) that are lifted from freebsd too dxtr: I blame my bad writing on lack of sleep bob^^: :) ideas1: ports just gets teh source? then you compile and install? dxtr: No it gets teh source and compiles and installs bob^^: cd /usr/ports/www/apache && make install
that will download the source, compile and install dxtr: YOu can do a bunch of cool stuff with ports bob^^: or if you're feeling lazy and don't need to tweak any build knobs, you can just do pkg_add -r <port name> ideas1: seems very similar to gentoos portage dxtr: Yeah, that's because gentoos portage is kind of a rip-off bob^^: gentoo stole the idea from freebsd, so yup :) ideas1: ahh
i may have to get two vps
one to play with freebsd and one for centos bob^^: :D
a convert! :D ideas1: ill give it a shot
lol bob^^: you'll like it
and we're here to help :) ideas1: i would be scared to go live with it since i dont feel i know enough
ok let me sign up bob^^: there's #freebsd over on QuakeNet if you need anything too ideas1: well as long as they dont chew my head off lol bob^^: freebsd community tends to be pretty friendly
nah, you'll be fine - i'm an op over there :) ideas1: :)
why is there a limit of only 1vps per customer? bob^^: is there? :( dxtr: ideas1: No it isn't
? ideas1: For new orders only, limit 1 per customer
Special also applies for any Linux distro we offer bob^^: ah :(
must be running low on slots :( ideas1: well that throws a monkey wrench in my plan bob^^: well ideas1: linode isnt freebsd friendly lol bob^^: you could head over to amazon ec2 and register for their free thing
freebsd 9 has just become available on amazon ec2, but it's not guaranteed for production use yet
and it won't be quite as easy to set up dxtr: try rootbsd bob^^: you could always ask up_the_irons - he might make an exception? dxtr: ideas1: But ask up_the_irons. Perhaps it's just one *NEW* order per customer+<
?
https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/List_of_fictional_raccoons up_the_irons: ideas1: no, you can order 10, i don't care ;) ideas1: Please credit the sale to <dxtr> and <bob^^>.
just placed the order up_the_irons: yep, my phone just buzzed
dxtr: bob^^ : thank you guys :) bob^^: :) dxtr: up_the_irons o ideas1: so i can order a freebsd one and a centos one right? bob^^: yup dxtr: up_the_irons: From now on you'll be my sexual advisor bob^^: ! dxtr: You owe it to me up_the_irons: ideas1: yup ideas1: damn dxtr is demanding up_the_irons: srsly dxtr: Imagine that resume
"Code slave, sysadmin and sexual advisor" bob^^: lol dxtr: THINK OF THE POSSIBILITIES! bob^^: anyway, time for me to go grab some lunch, back later :) dxtr: Then I'll go buy my delicious cigarettes ideas1: lol thanks for all the rookie help guys dxtr: ideas1: Hey, I'll be back in 15 minutes or so :P ideas1: soudns good
good night guys 330am here ***: ideas1 has left "Ex-Chat" merky: do other people see just one cpu, or is it just me? RandalSchwartz: it's just one virtual cpu, yes merky: oh it sounded like it was more than one on website
Multiple CPUs (SMP) supported RandalSchwartz: for the VPS?
not in the existing plans merky: is that some kvm issue? RandalSchwartz: no, just a sales issue :) merky: like it can't fair queue
oh hmm RandalSchwartz: I imagine you could negotiate a different deal merky: so they're all liek that?
i don't really know how much it bothers me RandalSchwartz: where do you see "multiple cpus (smp) supported" on http://arpnetworks.com/vps ?
oh. merky: like i don't think i'm liekly to need that much cpu or anything RandalSchwartz: right... in the rihgt column merky: yaeh RandalSchwartz: yeah, you could probably get it for more money
but all the plans on the left are single cpu merky: it says all vps's include!
*sigh*
at least it seems ok performance RandalSchwartz: well, they don't get an A for english, then. :)
keep in mind, your IO is all virtual merky: it seems about same speed as poweredge 1750 RandalSchwartz: so while on a dedicated box, you'd want a second cpu to handle interrupt stuff merky: which are old school p4 liek xeons RandalSchwartz: you don't need that here, since that happens "off" your box merky: interrupt stuff? RandalSchwartz: IO merky: oh i haven't even really checked disk performance RandalSchwartz: dma, interrupt handling, etc merky: it seems ok RandalSchwartz: some here have said "how do they get the virtual disk so *fast*"
I haven't compared. seems fast 'nuff. :) merky: oh real? RandalSchwartz: yeah merky: i've got a few vps's, and a few hardware things at work
and doign opensolaris/xen at work too
and different hardware can vary with disk speeds a lot
thing i've found is most noticable is when there's battery backed write cache
thing is with that though is as soon as you write too much it's still slow
and mostly you notice it extracting tar balls etc it just finishes quicker
but that doesn't necessarily mean it's going to give really good disk performance. just noticably good.
i'm assuing it's just fast disks in raid 10 without too many users?
and with spare ram for disk caching
what's a way to check disk speed anyway?
without doing something long like bonnie
314572800 bytes transferred in 13.229 secs (23778312 bytes/sec)
that's dd if=/dev/zero of=testzero bs=1024k count=300
23 megs/sec
314572800 bytes transferred in 5.154 secs (61025787 bytes/sec)
that's a poweredge 1850 with raid 1 on old scsi disks
so it's not amazing?
but as long as it doesn't get to 1/100th that speed all is good :)
314572800 bytes transferred in 4.131 secs (76142619 bytes/sec)
and that's one with battery backed write cache RandalSchwartz: sorry, getting ready for work here
wandered away :)
still need to be concentrating on that merky: heh RandalSchwartz: but I'll be around all day, off and on merky: it's like 3 am here :)
haha that's what i'm like RandalSchwartz: I've had 4 VPS here (various sizes) for a year merky: oh wow RandalSchwartz: still very happy merky: well i'm glad to finally be able to run openbsd :)0
:) ***: BeBoo_ has joined #arpnetworks merky: random, i ran it again and it was faster. jpalmer: jlgaddis: yes, www.ipv6.facebook.com is, but that isn't their main URL. www.facebook.com (and facebook.com) is. thats what June 8th (world IPv6 day) is about.
jlgaddis: facebook, google, yahoo, and a few other big players will add AAAA records to their MAIN URL's for a minimum of 24 hours, as a test. merky: hocool
i can't resolve that what RandalSchwartz: according to something I saw recently on he.net, you can actually get a faster net experience (a bit) by using ipv6
presuming you're not tunneled to start with merky: yeah
well i can get better speeds with their tunnel
actually that reminds me i was going to test taht
betwen two end points i jumped frmo 1.6 to 4.6 mb/sec or something RandalSchwartz: I like how I can have five tunnels
I have one that terminates in LA
and another in London merky: megabytes that is RandalSchwartz: the london one is handy for watching iplayer :) merky: i am using all 5 of mine up
i have three that terminate in LA
and one that terminates in london
and the other one ic an't remember where it is
won't that need ipv4?
i've got a xen vps in the uk
oh i have 4 in LA now
i want more :(
or more people to support ipv6
2051k average, versus 1701k average
it's faster...
gah it's still skipping RandalSchwartz: time to wander off to work merky: work hard :/ RandalSchwartz: although, you won't notice here...
since it'll just mean I'm quiet for a few minutes. :) merky: heh
that's my trick! RandalSchwartz: Terminal.app -> ssh -> screen -> emacs -> irc.el merky: tried tmux? RandalSchwartz: the magic is in the "screen"
tried yes. merky: it's like screen but better
didn't like it? RandalSchwartz: it was missing a few common features for me
can't remember what
they might be there now merky: i hardly use any features RandalSchwartz: yeah, in that case, you might be satisfied easier than I was bob^^: is tmux in base on freebsd yet? merky: just multiple windows and attach/detach bob^^: i know they were tryin to add it
*trying RandalSchwartz: tmux is a port merky: not sure, i know it's in base in openbsd RandalSchwartz: I doubt it'll ever be a base merky: shift to openbsd :/ RandalSchwartz: did openbsd for four years
very happy to have moved to freebsd merky: haha RandalSchwartz: freebsd = zfs-on-root + pf + huge ports catalog
openbsd, not so much bob^^: http://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-current/2009-September/011762.html
looks like it might appear eventually RandalSchwartz: just theo's paranoi merky: yaeh, RandalSchwartz: paranoia merky: zfs is cool RandalSchwartz: I have four boxes all with zfs for / merky: it's why i'm doing opensolaris/xen RandalSchwartz: no ufs at all
I tried opensolaris
but with the legal uncertainty, it's a mess now merky: i hate opensolaris RandalSchwartz: oracle is ruining everything sun stood for merky: yeah well we're already using it bob^^: it's very sad :( merky: i know :( RandalSchwartz: I had an amazon ec2 instance for six months on opensol
moved that here as soon as I discovered ARP merky: oh you're running opensolaris on arp? RandalSchwartz: no - I ported back to freebsd
it was openbsd -> opensol -> freebsd merky: ahh
i can't stand opensolaris
but...
it hasn't really given many issues RandalSchwartz: the management stuff is interesting
powerful, but arcane merky: and as a virtualisation platform i haven't foudnanything better RandalSchwartz: I find freebsd's rc.d files to be much more to my liking merky: vmware esx... linux vserver... openvz...
none of them sounding that exciting
never tried kvm properly, i tried it on desktop and it wouldn't go
i think it crashed my computer
or just didn't work
then i tried virtualbox
for the same thing, and it went :/
virtualbox is terrible for cpu idle i think from memory -: RandalSchwartz wanders off merky: bob did you ever use opensolaris? ***: schmir has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection) bob^^: nah
i've used proper solaris though
(solaris 9 and 10)
(actually, 8, 9 and 10!) merky: ahh
i've used solaris 7 bob^^: i guess it's not too different merky: it's all dirty bob^^: i quite liked solaris
<3 CDE :) merky: haha bob^^: used to run it on my sun ultra30 :D merky: when i'm "working"
i use ion
otherwise i've been using windows heh bob^^: yeah tbh i've gone back to using windows on my work machines :( merky: i have some really shitty sparc somewhere
it was really slow bob^^: i'd love to get a decent mac merky: ssh key generation was noticably like
delayed bob^^: hehe yeah the u30 wasn't exactly fast :) merky: and it's frame buffer was omg-slow bob^^: i remember putting openbsd on it
and trying to build X
it took over a week merky: i put openbsd on mine
i didn't compile on it though i think bob^^: tbh, i can't remember if i let it finish merky: it didn't have much ram as well bob^^: i think i got bored and re-installed slowlaris merky: heh
slowaris really is slow bob^^: mine had 512mb iirc - and quite a big scsi disk
still.. i had 64bit before everyone else :D merky: 512mb is lots
aren't all sparcs 64 bit? bob^^: for the u30, it was really nicely specc'd
had a creator3d in it too
yeah merky, i think so :) merky: i stuck openbsd on some 1u sparc too
i can't remember what kind bob^^: sparc is nice
we had a box on trial from sun a couple of years ago
T2000 iirc
it was beatiful and had 64 sparc procs in it iirc
and 64gb of ram or something stupid merky: heh bob^^: and 8 little SAS disks in the front merky: it makes a lot less sense now bob^^: such nice hardware - all brushed aluminium merky: but a while back
pc rackmount hardware was real lame
well actually
pc server hardware in general was lame bob^^: yeah merky: its' got better over the yaers thuogh
bu oh well
solaris is dead
as good as dead at least RandalSchwartz: I used solaris 1 and 2 :)
back when it was called sunos 4 and sunos 5 merky: huh? RandalSchwartz: 1991-ish merky: i used sunos
yaeh
sun3/60 RandalSchwartz: solaris 1 was the distro that had sunos 4 in it
and solaris 2 was the distro of sunos 5 bob^^: hehe merky: oh taht reminds me RandalSchwartz: although a lot of people at the time just said "sunos" vs "solaris" merky: i have some sparc clone i was goign to get going some time
but i never got aroundto it
it's probably in my garage RandalSchwartz: we had mostly sun4's in the server room merky: i've had it for years RandalSchwartz: and sun3's on desktops merky: yeah
optical mice
that need a special pad RandalSchwartz: a grand total of 16GB of disk for 40 engineers! merky: and are bulky like amiga mice
that's FOUR HUNDED MEGABYTES PER USER RandalSchwartz: rebooting to install 10.6.6 merky: andyou canshare binaries etc
andsave space
macos?
i can't remembe rseeing a sun4
http://web.archive.org/web/20000817004025/www.sparcproductdirectory.com/19rack-10.html
they're all ugly RandalSchwartz: good, that semes to have worked
upgrades are always a bit of risk
anyone want a wuala invite? merky: what's wuala? RandalSchwartz: like dropbox, 2GB initial, but you can get more just by sharing *your* hard drive space of an always-on machine
also strong encryption... they don't have your cleartext
so, unlike dropbox. :) merky: oh weird. RandalSchwartz: I'm sharing 50GB of my home server with them, and now I have 50GB of cloud storage merky: i had that idea :/ RandalSchwartz: I use it to transfer stuff between home and laptop merky: what net speed does it need? RandalSchwartz: not dialup :) merky: heh RandalSchwartz: you can set the clients to throttle bob^^: interesting idea merky: i have bw limit on my home connection RandalSchwartz: if you go to the site, you get 1GB, but I have invites that start you at 2
anyone want one? toddf: randalschwartz: since they have bins I presume it's not open source? RandalSchwartz: yeah, not open source merky: oh 2gb isn't that much RandalSchwartz: but built on many o/s technologies
2gb isn't much... it's the trading of space that makes it intersting
you can also just outright rent space too
like dropbox merky: can you rsync etc to it? RandalSchwartz: sorta. toddf: are there other companies that are open source that do this? RandalSchwartz: they give you a netdrive equivalent merky: or is there some annoying api? RandalSchwartz: it's done with FUSE
so it's a little weird
the problem is that it's encrypted locally before shipping
so you have to have some local driver intercept the calls toddf: monetizing unutilized bandwidth and unlimited electricity in my office and idle and empty disks seems like a good idea to me ;-) merky: don't think i have a need for it RandalSchwartz: toddf - want an invite? toddf: randalschwartz: dunno, I run only openbsd, so ... ;-) merky: qos it RandalSchwartz: oh - not sure they have a client for that
they have some sort of command-line client that runs under linux emulation mode for freebsd toddf: there is a 'compile from source' option, woah merky: openbsd can actually run linux and freebsd binaries in theory toddf: http://www.dropbox.com/downloading?os=lnx
its much better to run native, freebsd/linux emulation works for some things, but it comes down to which system calls are used, some newer ones are not emulated at all merky: ahh ok RandalSchwartz: pedants would say your terminology is a bit off merky: i haven't used it in ages
i haven't run openbsd as a desktop in ages RandalSchwartz: like calling "wine" an emulator :) toddf: s/emulated/mapped/ RandalSchwartz: freebsd doesn't "emulate" linux merky: i used to use it as a desktop and use opera under emulation RandalSchwartz: yeah - it can use a different mapping of syscalls toddf: s/emulated/implemented/ RandalSchwartz: so there's no indirection there
just a bit set in the process table merky: it used to be that it used old redhat binaries
for libc etc RandalSchwartz: still does, as I recall merky: i can't say i've kept up with it
oh btw
can freebsd 64 bit kernel run 32 bit apps? RandalSchwartz: I suspect so merky: linux can
i have found in the past openbsd can't :/ RandalSchwartz: yeah - my 64-bit machine here has a lib32.so
so I presume that's the old lib interface merky: hmm toddf: the source has a libnautilus extension, so in theory it should work merky: maybe i should try out freebsd sometime
cos mostly i just want openbgpd, relayd, pf etc
which all aren't on linux
but all seem to be on freebsd too
i wonder if they're on netbsd
netbsd seemed cleaner than freebsd last time i looked toddf: and the reason you don't want to try OpenBSD is ? ;-)
the migration from OpenBSD to the other BSD's lags somewhat..
hmm, it talks about the open source dropbox plugin downloading the dropbox binary, hmm merky: i'm already using openbsd :)
i'm mostly worried about the whole network speed thign with openbsd. toddf: sorry, probably missed some prior scrollback
network speed thing? merky: not enough development seems to be happening toddf: what typeof network speed are you worried about? merky: oh toddf: WTF?
"NOT ENOUGH DEVELOPMENT" ???? merky: openbsd only just added automatic receive window scaling toddf: you are obviously not reading source-changes nor tech merky: but it only works if the other end supports tcp timestmaps ***: schmir has joined #arpnetworks merky: development happens ***: schmir has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection) merky: but i mean network stuff is a bit lagged behind freebsd etc. toddf: none of that has anything to do with routing and firewalling merky: oh yaeh, but as far as hosting stuff on it toddf: it only effects userland apps serving content (httpd, etc) merky: yeah i know
well
i live in new zealand, and using openbsd on raw hardware as routers toddf: I've had no issues hosting content on openbsd and am willing to take a performance hit if it happens to have a more secure system. I know that's not everyone. merky: and found it fine..
well yaeh, -current has new window scaling code in it
but it requires the other end to have tcp timestamps enabled.
that's the main gotcha i i have with openbsd.
amd tjat
and that's mostly abotu usig relayd etc.
you can force set a socket buffer size toddf: randalschwartz: I'll let you know if I want an invite, I'll setup a test account with a generic email etc and if I can do it fully open source, then I'll accept the invite, otherwise not worth my time merky: anyway, 4.9 should be a bit better for network performance of daemons etc. toddf: merky: openbsd is not against people sending diffs.. ;-) merky: toddf: yeah well i still wasn't sure exactly what i was doing
i tried posting to the dev mailing lsit..
i tried hacking the source
but it's kind of complicated.
and i don't understand everything
have you ever got a diff accepted? toddf: grep todd /dev/MAKEDEV
so you can understand I have some bias ;-) merky: ahhh..
well i dunno
is it okay to look at freebsd code or something for inspiration?
it's bad to look at linux code cos of licensing?
and if code ends up too similar can be complicated? toddf: no point in reinventing the wheel, credit from where it came from, bsd or similarly licensed is fine, linux if you read for docs but don't borrow code tends to be ok merky: hmm
maybe i should check freebsd
basically i just want window scaling to work without tcp timestamps toddf: sounds like you do need to check that other os's perform 'better' for your application. otherwise you're wasting your time wading in the code. ;-)
do you have an application or just want the feature? merky: international tcp/ip performance is quite noticable
umm international web browisng
through squid as a proxy..
i suppose i need to find a way to record what sites have tcp time stamps on
like tcp dump maye
but on linux /proc/sys/net/ipv4/tcp_timestamps being 0 toddf: scientific method and all that, you have to be able to have numerics behind your claims that things are slower or you don't know if you've fixed them to be faster when you change the source merky: makes -current go at 60k/sec or something internationally
well it's real obivous
i mean
it's a known limitation
from what claudio said
he went and took out net.inet.tcp.recvspace RandalSchwartz: trying out the Mac App store. Just downloaded Twitter with it... very slick merky: oh they actually did that?
i thought that'd be in macos 10.7 RandalSchwartz: new in 10.6.6
the rest of the interface mangling comes in 10.7, I'm told merky: is 10.6.6 much better?
gah i should go to bed toddf: so the dropbox open source system is an interface to their proprietary daemon ***: Polynomial|Lapto has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer) toddf: http://forums.dropbox.com/topic.php?id=3107
interesting read ***: robotarmy has joined #arpnetworks
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robotarmy has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) jdoe: merky: no, 10.6.6 has no major changes other than the app store (misc bugfixes/performance improvements though)
... updating is generally a good idea, but it's not OMG YOU HAVE TO RIGHT NOW. ***: bharatak_ has quit IRC (Quit: leaving)
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vcs_ is now known as sundial toddf: so for the fun and adventuresome I've re-packed a program file wuala distributes to x86 unixen .. it contained linux swt class files checking into linux .so objects, replace them with openbsd objects, and wallah, gui works! RandalSchwartz: yeay! toddf: http://todd.fries.net/private/Wuala.368 -> wuala/Program4/Wuala.368 on OpenBSD/i386 and presto
presuming you have jdk installed blah blah RandalSchwartz: and then you too can have dropbox-like filesharing, but better toddf: time to see if nfs works, after I see the TOS
I specifically will be looking to find the 'share my disk for profit' details vcs: haha Lefty: toddf: "voila", not "wallah" ;) toddf: Lefty: you get the idea in any event Lefty: true, true
that's the nice thing about shared objects
they make things portable!
(in theory) toddf: bah, account creation failed because of some swt class not present
next round of 'how can I hack/fix this' ;-) ***: mattx86 has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving) RandalSchwartz: wuala tells me you're activated
oh weird. I got the email, but nothing in the wuala interface toddf: yeah, signin is finding more swt classes wuala adds in their hidden (wuala/Program4/Wuala.368) class library, so I'm adding them as it `notifies me' in full dialog alert mode
-nogui permits login
looks like nfs needs to be enabled in the gui, continuing gui crash and fix mode BarberRonny: :P RandalSchwartz: oh look, there you are in my friend request list
by the way, you get all the "pro" features (backup and sync etc) just by sharing even the smallest amount of disk toddf: I'm still fighting the gui, but presuming I get that fixed, I'll be shairing more than a small amount of disk presuming I get $$ for the effort, where's the link to do that or is it in the gui also? RandalSchwartz: you don't get $$. you get cloudspace.
the cloudspace *would have cost you $$*
you really were distracted on that phone call. :) toddf: yeah, indeed RandalSchwartz: but for example, I now have 64GB of cloudspace
so I can share big files with my friends, or slowly transfer a lot of data from my home drobo to my work laptop while I'm on the road
I could have *paid* for that with dropbox, but it's free with wuala
in fact, if I get it large enough, I can use it to automatically make cloud-safe my pictures during a trip
just point wuala at my Aperture library toddf: how does it work if your shared space goes away (say disk failure, etc) ?
say you have 64g shared to them in the cloud, but then you loose net/disk/etc .. do you get to plop in a new disk and share it again within e.g. 2 days and all is good or do you pay for 2 days of 64gb etc? RandalSchwartz: it drifts by 3% a day
weighted average
and they keep your stuff on the cloud... you just can't get to it
it seemed like they really wanted to be forgiving of possible failure modes
but they do eventually have to notify you of impending deletion toddf: I presume they have a policy in place to not have people abuse that, upload 128gb, drop the local 128gb share, a year later, new 128gb share and re-download the data .. etc RandalSchwartz: yeah, it looked sensible
involving notifications and such toddf: so in essense by serving them some less reliable disk I get them to have more reliable disk to store data into RandalSchwartz: seems that way :) toddf: wonder if there's a xfer limit or what their policy is on their end wrt data storage, I presume they expect most people to purchase rather than share, and those that share permit them to monetize the shared disk space, sure would be nice if we could share disk space and make money off it also
obviously at a lesser rate than they'd charge for it
will sure be nice when the api is available, having java classes auto downloaded with shared libraries doesn't give me warm fuzzies ***: schmir has joined #arpnetworks toddf: http://www.wuala.com/en/api
presto
booh, its only supporting public access at this time. ***: robotarm_ has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection)
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amdprophet has joined #arpnetworks mhoran: Sorry, but if that's anything like the Lacie drives I've had in the past, no thanks. :) ideas1: lol
lacie just bought them this past year toddf: so bottom line is, they have a teaser of an open api, closed source ``security'' algorithms in java that downloads shared libs to your disk and uses them instead of your shared libs .. hmm.... I think I'll wait till I can inspect an openly implemented client of wuava or anything similar ideas1: hey do you guys know how long it usually takes to get your account info, I signed up last night but havent heard anything
*? ***: BeBoo_ has quit IRC (Quit: BeBoo_) toddf: activations happen overnight, so if it didn't happen last night, chances are better tonight. depends on available hardware and such. if it is delayed a few days due to hardware acquisition, its worth it, anybody here will attest to that. ideas1: sounds good todd thanks
have you guys tried tarsnap? it works great ***: nukefree is now known as nuke`
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i couldnt find a port ***: robotarmy has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection)
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HUB is now known as HUBPub HUBPub: ideas1: yes, pf==BSD and iptables==linux. In BSD pf isn't a port, it's part of the base system. See man pf.conf and http://www.openbsd.org/faq/pf/