up_the_irons :(
are there network outages?
up_the_irons: ^^^
I think most (or at least a significant chunk) of this channel is on that network.
I am, at least.
hmm
my ssh connection just died
that was just a netsplit, right?
Pretty sure that was a netsplit.
and my webserver is down
it just died for me (a minute or two ago)
it is back
oh well
wonder what that was
this looks pretty cool: http://www.redhat.com/virtualization/rhev/desktop/spice/
no 3d acceleration yet, but its on their list
everything that starts out as "Simple", never ends up being so ;)
:P
OMG WTF NO WAY WHAT ABOUT SMTP?!
:P
yeah, e-mail in general makes me want to pull my hair out  lol
ftp is the root of all evil
Vint Cerf calls for ISP/Content Provider/User end-to-end IPv6 connectivity testing. ;-)
Sigh.  Google Apps is really starting to piss me off with how slow it is.
And I'm actually considering moving to a hosted exchange solution.
up_the_irons: what, you sasying SNMP isnt simple? :P
exchange makes me suicidal
in every way possible
one time i killed a man over exchange, i did my time
now I am out and exchange free
heh
Yeah, I'm not interested in running my own e-mail, no matter what the platform.  PITA.
indeed
too much work for not much gain
I am. Agreed though, PITA.
as long as you dont admin exchange
you are probobly good
if you have to admin it... i feel very sorry for you
that's not een an option.
I host on google apps, and am pleased with it
email + calendar, and I get integration with my android phone for free
postfix for me.
well, at the expense of privacy+advertising
I find I just can't keep up with the antispam arms race
agreed, it is a brutal race.
privacy - probably, but I see no ads
tmda has worked wonders for me
what's tmda?
http://tmda.net/
oh, I looked at that
i get very close to zero spam
nice. might tie in with greylisting as well?
with 15 year old email address
yes. i also use greylisting, that helps cut out a certain amount
... but makes first time delivery slower...
...you want an omlette...
i have ads in gmail... but i dont notice them. Very unobtrusive. Privacy... well i dont see it as a privacy issue.
i also have a gmail address... i just read it with an imap client... no adverts... i use it when i want to make sure that every three letter agency has a copy of my mail :P
heh you people are too paranoid
I resemble that remark!
:)
spam spam spam spam
the real reason i run my own mail server is that i always have... if i were starting out today i might not...
i think there should be a system put in place
to prosecute people who buy from spam
that would end spam
well, it would
by which world government?
except that soon as you buy from it it becomes an accepted business exchange
half the spam is about semi-legal generic drugs that you could probably be prosecuted for buying anyways in the states...
only spam i get on google is for legit stuff... like advertising crap from stores ive bought from
google's spam recognition is good... i don't know how they do it...
haha
yeah
then again, googles search results are stellar
compared to everyone elses
seems like all googles web/cloud based stuff is ages ahead of everyone else
Except for one problem.
Gmail and Google Apps are slow as molasses for me and it happens a lot.
It annoys the hell out of me.
And I think Exchange is the right way because it enables push e-mail and sync'd calendar and contacts on my phone.
Problem is, hosted exchange is more expensive than google apps.  Google's $50/user/year, hosted exchange is minimum $10-15/user/month
awyeah: I get push email, sync'd calendar and contacts on my Android device with google apps
I get that on my iPhone with google apps, that's not the problem...
problem is, the web interface has been slow for me quite often recently, and it's very irritating.
And google's support is sub-par.
If I'm paying for service, I shouldn't have to rely on a forum...
Forum?
lol
supporting exchange is funny
it usually means calling microsoft
it's a pain.
we used to do it for customer, but then we just outsourced it to a client of ours that does that primarily (we're a managed data centre)
just wasn't cost effective
customers*
Well, apparently Rackspace has wonderful support.
they do exchange hosting.
Well, yeah, if support is important to you that's probably a reasonable way to go. (But you do get email and limited phone support with the paid-for gapps options, probably not nearly as responsive though)
My exchange experience is so far limited to versions up to 2007 and must say that the web access is craptastic in those. But I would assume someone has tried to fix it in the latest version.
I love running my own email (Postfix + OpenBSD's spamd); total control and it is fast.  I'm a minority though
what do you use for the imap/pop parts (if you run those)
we have hosted google apps (email, calendar, etc...) at DigiSynd, and the email is slow as hell (I used an IMAP client).  calendar is pretty bad ass though
up_the_irons: Slow in what way?
Slow deliveries or something else?
hawk: open a folder with 80K messages in it (like my trash), and it takes literally two hours to open.  so i *have* to use the web interface when searching through large folders
heh. try doing mutt -f imaps://up_the_irons@imap.gmail.com/Trash
ww: that scares me ;)
why won't support@arpnetworks.com respond to me? :(
do they hate me?
up_the_irons: I tend to agree with ww... essentially "are you sure it's not your client that is the problem?"
hawk: the thing is, I have 80K message folders in my personal email, which runs on OpenBSD + Postfix + dovecot, and I have *no* problems opening it
need a new way to read mail... http://sw.joanneum.at/mle/doc.html is a nice idea...
it sounds like MLA
which makes me cringe
haha
up_the_irons: which is not on your local network? or is it? (that's much more forgiving for clients doing stupid stuff)
hawk: not on the local network
use mutt to read mail
ok. I only have about 50k in my largest gmail folders but I don't experience the type of issue you describe... maybe something seriously degrade somewhere beyond that
forgiving?
up_the_irons DOES NOT FORGIVE.
up_the_irons: re: google, I went through *exactly the same problem*
up_the_irons: the workaround here is "just don't subscribe to every folder"
I just use the webmail because *ix email clients that aren't mutt suck, and mutt sucks for corporate use :P
webmail's annoying... i miss my tab key...
... i just tried mutt -f imaps://xyz@imap.gmail.com/'[Google Mail]/All Mail'
... not pretty
jpalmer: in a perfect world I'd rather have postini and a homegrown server.
but the google apps stuff offers apps (some of dubious quality, to be sure) that you can't really get in open source stuff.
jdoe:  I've run about every mail cluster setup you can name.  postini is nice,  but not really much better than postgrey+dspam.
openbsd's spamd is "ok"  but not as efficient as several other greylist options.  (unless it's been updated recently)
don't get me started on greylisting. Heh.
in terms of straight statistical filtering, dspam is awesome. Gmail has orders of magnitude more users to train on than you do though.
honestly, I'd rather outsource spam.
it's not an interesting problem, and it requires reasonable maintenance.
sure.   but when you factor in the numbe rof people who train "unwanted (but subscribed to)" mail as spam,  it's not as accurate as my own dspam training.
we should all just move to gpg right
"I suscribed to this,  but now i don't want it anymore. therefor,  it's spam!"
tooth: but who will trust the trusters? :(
jpalmer: I don't think that's a real problem. I'd be very surprised if you didn't lose more mail to greylisting (lol smtp farms) than you would to mouthbreathers hamclicking the report spam button.
jdoe: I ran spamgrey and sqlgrey in log-only mode for many many months before enabling it fully (mostly, to build the whitelists automatically)   never did a legit mail get bounced permanently.
for clarification,  I didn't run both at the same time.   I used spamgrey first,  but found sqlgrey and liked it better.
yeah, the trick is I know there are broken smtp farms out there, like how facebook used to be.
or Bell for that matter.
I'm unwilling to sink that kind of effort into it. I used to, but ... I dunno, I guess I just don't care anymore. I'd rather delete a couple spam emails than lose something.
join #Bind
ops
It's too bad there isn't a good open source solution for e-mail/calendar/contacts that has push syncing with mobile phones.
awyeah: does it have to be opensource?   google apps has all of that.
awyeah: haha
awyeah: the main reason my clients demand exchange
is simply the callendar
being able to share them, etc
the thing that sucks about exchange is it requires active directory and tons of other dependencies
it really is hard to beat exchange for calendaring.  I'm not going to lie.
so if you only need it for email, you have alot of bloat running
which makes backing it up a huge pain in the ass
I use the Open source version of zimbra
to host alot of clients email
they seem to be fine with it
howevever, only the payed version has the exchange connector
so they can connect phones, etc to it
zimbra isn't bad.  but it doesn't hold a candle to the full power of exchange.
most places though,  don't USE the full power of exchange, either.
yeah
backing up zimbra is a cakewalk
compared to backing up exchange... uggghhhh
makes me cringe
backing up exchange really isn't that bad.
hell, exchange 2007 did not even have backup support till sp2
thats pathetic
you should not need 3rd party software to backup emails
typical microsoft
vcs:  exchange 2007 did have backup support pre-sp2.
not VSS backup
haha
I'm thinking some of that avoidance either causes, or is caused by misunderstanding.
Windows Server Backup is awful
it does not support incremnetal backups from command line
haha
im so glad i only have to administrate one exchange/AD box
come to think of it.. I read a while back that bacula now has an exchange connector.  I should check that out.
if free zimbra had one, that would be nice
but they have to make money somehow
(I love bacula)
i dont blame em
then again, I am not a fulltime IT guy (although im the IT director at our small company, as well as fulltime software engineer)
ive put in 50 hours this week at the office already
got way too much work :X
I know that feeling.  speaking of which..  bedtime.
I know google has all that, but lately google has been slow.
Remember when stuff was simpler?
awyeah: would scalix, open-xchange, axigen, or zimbra fit the bill?
You know they might, although I'd rather not admin it myself.
yeah, bedtime indeed
i got a rought day tommorow
Mostly, I don't want to have to deal with spam filtering, which as we discussed before is a pain in the ass...
awyeah: don't want to admin it yourself?  google apps.
jpalmer - I'm using google apps currently.  But I'm getting tired of "Working..."  .... "Still working..."  .... "Are you sure you want to leave this page? Operations are still in progress"
awyeah: so,  hook it up to your email client.
I might just do that, actually.  They do have a sync utility for outlook that gets calendar and contacts in sync.
and it works nicely.
anywho,  bed.
night
nite
me too.
Hello, I'm trying to find out what the specs are for a vps.
specs?
oh, left