[02:40] *** LT has joined #arpnetworks [03:30] *** mattx86 has quit IRC (Read error: Operation timed out) [03:31] *** mattx86 has joined #arpnetworks [06:05] up_the_irons :( [06:46] *** schmir has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection) [07:12] *** mattx86 has quit IRC (*.net *.split) [07:12] *** cedwards has quit IRC (*.net *.split) [07:12] *** awyeah__ has quit IRC (*.net *.split) [07:12] *** LucasWilcox has quit IRC (*.net *.split) [07:12] *** sentabi has quit IRC (*.net *.split) [07:33] *** mattx86 has joined #arpnetworks [07:33] *** cedwards has joined #arpnetworks [07:33] *** awyeah__ has joined #arpnetworks [07:33] *** LucasWilcox has joined #arpnetworks [07:33] *** sentabi has joined #arpnetworks [08:45] *** Jason_Wood has joined #arpnetworks [08:53] *** heidar has quit IRC (Quit: WeeChat 0.3.3) [08:54] *** heidar has joined #arpnetworks [09:22] *** heavysixer has quit IRC (Quit: heavysixer) [10:20] *** jpalmer has quit IRC (Quit: leaving) [10:21] *** LT has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving) [10:24] *** mick_home has joined #arpnetworks [10:24] are there network outages? [10:25] *** jpalmer has joined #arpnetworks [10:26] up_the_irons: ^^^ [10:27] I think most (or at least a significant chunk) of this channel is on that network. [10:27] I am, at least. [10:27] hmm [10:27] my ssh connection just died [10:27] that was just a netsplit, right? [10:27] Pretty sure that was a netsplit. [10:27] and my webserver is down [10:28] it just died for me (a minute or two ago) [10:29] *** jpalmer has quit IRC (Client Quit) [10:30] *** jpalmer has joined #arpnetworks [10:31] it is back [10:31] oh well [10:32] wonder what that was [10:32] *** mick_home has left [10:44] *** heidar has quit IRC (Quit: WeeChat 0.3.3) [10:44] *** heidar has joined #arpnetworks [11:21] *** heavysixer has joined #arpnetworks [11:21] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o heavysixer [11:27] this looks pretty cool: http://www.redhat.com/virtualization/rhev/desktop/spice/ [11:27] no 3d acceleration yet, but its on their list [11:29] everything that starts out as "Simple", never ends up being so ;) [11:30] :P [11:35] OMG WTF NO WAY WHAT ABOUT SMTP?! [11:35] :P [11:36] yeah, e-mail in general makes me want to pull my hair out lol [11:52] *** heavysixer has quit IRC (Quit: heavysixer) [12:18] ftp is the root of all evil [12:27] Vint Cerf calls for ISP/Content Provider/User end-to-end IPv6 connectivity testing. ;-) [13:36] Sigh. Google Apps is really starting to piss me off with how slow it is. [13:36] *** awyeah__ is now known as awyeah [13:39] *** heavysixer has joined #arpnetworks [13:39] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o heavysixer [13:41] And I'm actually considering moving to a hosted exchange solution. [13:45] up_the_irons: what, you sasying SNMP isnt simple? :P [13:49] exchange makes me suicidal [13:49] in every way possible [13:50] * IPv6Freely very happy to not be a sysadmin [13:50] one time i killed a man over exchange, i did my time [13:50] now I am out and exchange free [13:50] * vcs goes to exchange anonymous [13:52] heh [13:52] Yeah, I'm not interested in running my own e-mail, no matter what the platform. PITA. [13:52] indeed [13:52] too much work for not much gain [13:52] I am. Agreed though, PITA. [13:53] as long as you dont admin exchange [13:53] you are probobly good [13:53] if you have to admin it... i feel very sorry for you [13:53] that's not een an option. [13:56] I host on google apps, and am pleased with it [13:56] email + calendar, and I get integration with my android phone for free [13:56] postfix for me. [13:56] well, at the expense of privacy+advertising [13:56] I find I just can't keep up with the antispam arms race [13:57] agreed, it is a brutal race. [13:57] privacy - probably, but I see no ads [13:57] tmda has worked wonders for me [13:57] what's tmda? [13:57] http://tmda.net/ [13:58] oh, I looked at that [13:58] i get very close to zero spam [13:58] nice. might tie in with greylisting as well? [13:58] with 15 year old email address [13:59] yes. i also use greylisting, that helps cut out a certain amount [13:59] ... but makes first time delivery slower... [14:00] ...you want an omlette... [14:00] * ww omelette [14:00] * tooth cracks ww [14:01] i have ads in gmail... but i dont notice them. Very unobtrusive. Privacy... well i dont see it as a privacy issue. [14:03] i also have a gmail address... i just read it with an imap client... no adverts... i use it when i want to make sure that every three letter agency has a copy of my mail :P [14:05] heh you people are too paranoid [14:06] I resemble that remark! [14:08] :) [14:08] spam spam spam spam [14:08] the real reason i run my own mail server is that i always have... if i were starting out today i might not... [14:09] i think there should be a system put in place [14:09] to prosecute people who buy from spam [14:09] that would end spam [14:09] well, it would [14:09] by which world government? [14:09] except that soon as you buy from it it becomes an accepted business exchange [14:11] half the spam is about semi-legal generic drugs that you could probably be prosecuted for buying anyways in the states... [14:14] only spam i get on google is for legit stuff... like advertising crap from stores ive bought from [14:19] google's spam recognition is good... i don't know how they do it... [14:21] haha [14:21] yeah [14:21] then again, googles search results are stellar [14:21] compared to everyone elses [14:21] seems like all googles web/cloud based stuff is ages ahead of everyone else [14:26] Except for one problem. [14:27] Gmail and Google Apps are slow as molasses for me and it happens a lot. [14:27] It annoys the hell out of me. [14:27] And I think Exchange is the right way because it enables push e-mail and sync'd calendar and contacts on my phone. [14:28] Problem is, hosted exchange is more expensive than google apps. Google's $50/user/year, hosted exchange is minimum $10-15/user/month [14:33] awyeah: I get push email, sync'd calendar and contacts on my Android device with google apps [14:37] I get that on my iPhone with google apps, that's not the problem... [14:37] problem is, the web interface has been slow for me quite often recently, and it's very irritating. [14:37] And google's support is sub-par. [14:38] If I'm paying for service, I shouldn't have to rely on a forum... [14:42] Forum? [14:43] lol [14:43] supporting exchange is funny [14:43] it usually means calling microsoft [14:44] it's a pain. [14:45] we used to do it for customer, but then we just outsourced it to a client of ours that does that primarily (we're a managed data centre) [14:45] just wasn't cost effective [14:45] customers* [14:54] Well, apparently Rackspace has wonderful support. [14:54] they do exchange hosting. [15:04] Well, yeah, if support is important to you that's probably a reasonable way to go. (But you do get email and limited phone support with the paid-for gapps options, probably not nearly as responsive though) [15:05] My exchange experience is so far limited to versions up to 2007 and must say that the web access is craptastic in those. But I would assume someone has tried to fix it in the latest version. [15:08] I love running my own email (Postfix + OpenBSD's spamd); total control and it is fast. I'm a minority though [15:10] what do you use for the imap/pop parts (if you run those) [15:10] *** fink has joined #arpnetworks [15:12] we have hosted google apps (email, calendar, etc...) at DigiSynd, and the email is slow as hell (I used an IMAP client). calendar is pretty bad ass though [15:12] up_the_irons: Slow in what way? [15:13] Slow deliveries or something else? [15:14] hawk: open a folder with 80K messages in it (like my trash), and it takes literally two hours to open. so i *have* to use the web interface when searching through large folders [15:14] heh. try doing mutt -f imaps://up_the_irons@imap.gmail.com/Trash [15:14] ww: that scares me ;) [15:15] why won't support@arpnetworks.com respond to me? :( [15:15] do they hate me? [15:16] up_the_irons: I tend to agree with ww... essentially "are you sure it's not your client that is the problem?" [15:23] hawk: the thing is, I have 80K message folders in my personal email, which runs on OpenBSD + Postfix + dovecot, and I have *no* problems opening it [15:24] need a new way to read mail... http://sw.joanneum.at/mle/doc.html is a nice idea... [15:24] it sounds like MLA [15:24] which makes me cringe [15:24] haha [15:26] up_the_irons: which is not on your local network? or is it? (that's much more forgiving for clients doing stupid stuff) [15:26] hawk: not on the local network [15:27] use mutt to read mail [15:28] ok. I only have about 50k in my largest gmail folders but I don't experience the type of issue you describe... maybe something seriously degrade somewhere beyond that [15:31] *** schmir has joined #arpnetworks [15:35] forgiving? [15:35] up_the_irons DOES NOT FORGIVE. [15:35] up_the_irons: re: google, I went through *exactly the same problem* [15:36] up_the_irons: the workaround here is "just don't subscribe to every folder" [15:36] I just use the webmail because *ix email clients that aren't mutt suck, and mutt sucks for corporate use :P [15:40] webmail's annoying... i miss my tab key... [15:44] ... i just tried mutt -f imaps://xyz@imap.gmail.com/'[Google Mail]/All Mail' [15:44] ... not pretty [15:47] * jpalmer uses google apps for several domains, and a homegrown postfix+postgrey+dspam. I have to say, the google apps takes a lot of the headache away from running a mailserver. unless you send a HIGH volume of mail, or *need* that level of control.. it's much more convenient. [15:47] jpalmer: in a perfect world I'd rather have postini and a homegrown server. [15:48] but the google apps stuff offers apps (some of dubious quality, to be sure) that you can't really get in open source stuff. [15:48] jdoe: I've run about every mail cluster setup you can name. postini is nice, but not really much better than postgrey+dspam. [15:49] openbsd's spamd is "ok" but not as efficient as several other greylist options. (unless it's been updated recently) [15:49] don't get me started on greylisting. Heh. [15:49] in terms of straight statistical filtering, dspam is awesome. Gmail has orders of magnitude more users to train on than you do though. [15:50] honestly, I'd rather outsource spam. [15:50] it's not an interesting problem, and it requires reasonable maintenance. [15:50] sure. but when you factor in the numbe rof people who train "unwanted (but subscribed to)" mail as spam, it's not as accurate as my own dspam training. [15:50] we should all just move to gpg right [15:51] "I suscribed to this, but now i don't want it anymore. therefor, it's spam!" [15:51] tooth: but who will trust the trusters? :( [15:53] jpalmer: I don't think that's a real problem. I'd be very surprised if you didn't lose more mail to greylisting (lol smtp farms) than you would to mouthbreathers hamclicking the report spam button. [15:54] jdoe: I ran spamgrey and sqlgrey in log-only mode for many many months before enabling it fully (mostly, to build the whitelists automatically) never did a legit mail get bounced permanently. [15:57] for clarification, I didn't run both at the same time. I used spamgrey first, but found sqlgrey and liked it better. [16:08] yeah, the trick is I know there are broken smtp farms out there, like how facebook used to be. [16:08] or Bell for that matter. [16:08] I'm unwilling to sink that kind of effort into it. I used to, but ... I dunno, I guess I just don't care anymore. I'd rather delete a couple spam emails than lose something. [16:09] *** schmir has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection) [17:04] join #Bind [17:04] ops [17:11] *** mattx86_ has joined #arpnetworks [17:12] *** mattx86 has quit IRC (Read error: Operation timed out) [17:12] *** mattx86_ is now known as mattx86 [17:12] *** mattx86 has quit IRC (Changing host) [17:12] *** mattx86 has joined #arpnetworks [17:22] *** ziyourenxiang has joined #arpnetworks [17:31] *** __Ehtyar has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection) [17:31] *** __Ehtyar has joined #arpnetworks [17:32] *** ziyourenxiang has quit IRC (Quit: ziyourenxiang) [17:57] *** fink has quit IRC (Quit: fink) [19:29] *** fink has joined #arpnetworks [20:38] *** heavysixer has quit IRC (Quit: BAMPF!) [21:08] *** fink has quit IRC (Quit: fink) [21:14] *** nuke- has quit IRC (Read error: Operation timed out) [21:15] *** nuke- has joined #arpnetworks [21:33] It's too bad there isn't a good open source solution for e-mail/calendar/contacts that has push syncing with mobile phones. [21:36] awyeah: does it have to be opensource? google apps has all of that. [21:36] awyeah: haha [21:36] awyeah: the main reason my clients demand exchange [21:36] is simply the callendar [21:37] being able to share them, etc [21:37] the thing that sucks about exchange is it requires active directory and tons of other dependencies [21:37] it really is hard to beat exchange for calendaring. I'm not going to lie. [21:37] so if you only need it for email, you have alot of bloat running [21:37] which makes backing it up a huge pain in the ass [21:37] I use the Open source version of zimbra [21:38] to host alot of clients email [21:38] they seem to be fine with it [21:38] howevever, only the payed version has the exchange connector [21:38] so they can connect phones, etc to it [21:38] zimbra isn't bad. but it doesn't hold a candle to the full power of exchange. [21:38] most places though, don't USE the full power of exchange, either. [21:41] yeah [21:41] backing up zimbra is a cakewalk [21:41] compared to backing up exchange... uggghhhh [21:41] makes me cringe [21:42] backing up exchange really isn't that bad. [21:42] hell, exchange 2007 did not even have backup support till sp2 [21:42] thats pathetic [21:42] you should not need 3rd party software to backup emails [21:42] typical microsoft [21:42] vcs: exchange 2007 did have backup support pre-sp2. [21:42] * vcs avoids MS like the plague [21:42] not VSS backup [21:43] haha [21:43] I'm thinking some of that avoidance either causes, or is caused by misunderstanding. [21:43] Windows Server Backup is awful [21:43] it does not support incremnetal backups from command line [21:43] haha [21:43] im so glad i only have to administrate one exchange/AD box [21:44] come to think of it.. I read a while back that bacula now has an exchange connector. I should check that out. [21:44] if free zimbra had one, that would be nice [21:44] but they have to make money somehow [21:44] (I love bacula) [21:44] i dont blame em [21:45] then again, I am not a fulltime IT guy (although im the IT director at our small company, as well as fulltime software engineer) [21:45] ive put in 50 hours this week at the office already [21:45] got way too much work :X [21:45] I know that feeling. speaking of which.. bedtime. [21:46] I know google has all that, but lately google has been slow. [21:46] Remember when stuff was simpler? [21:46] awyeah: would scalix, open-xchange, axigen, or zimbra fit the bill? [21:47] You know they might, although I'd rather not admin it myself. [21:47] yeah, bedtime indeed [21:47] i got a rought day tommorow [21:47] Mostly, I don't want to have to deal with spam filtering, which as we discussed before is a pain in the ass... [21:47] awyeah: don't want to admin it yourself? google apps. [21:48] jpalmer - I'm using google apps currently. But I'm getting tired of "Working..." .... "Still working..." .... "Are you sure you want to leave this page? Operations are still in progress" [21:49] awyeah: so, hook it up to your email client. [21:49] I might just do that, actually. They do have a sync utility for outlook that gets calendar and contacts in sync. [21:49] and it works nicely. [21:49] anywho, bed. [21:50] night [21:50] nite [21:50] me too. [21:52] *** butterball has joined #arpnetworks [21:52] Hello, I'm trying to find out what the specs are for a vps. [22:30] *** butterball has quit IRC (Quit: Page closed) [22:41] *** cmeiklejohn has quit IRC (Read error: Operation timed out) [22:42] *** cmeiklejohn has joined #arpnetworks [23:07] *** Ehtyar has joined #arpnetworks [23:26] *** __Ehtyar has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection) [23:47] specs? [23:47] oh, left