[00:24] *** shatt has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) [00:24] *** shatt has joined #arpnetworks [00:37] *** mjp has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) [00:37] *** mjp has joined #arpnetworks [00:39] *** koan has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) [00:39] *** koan has joined #arpnetworks [00:42] *** ww has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) [00:42] *** ww has joined #arpnetworks [00:55] *** schmir has joined #arpnetworks [00:58] *** LT has joined #arpnetworks [02:22] *** heidar has quit IRC (Read error: Operation timed out) [02:26] *** heidar has joined #arpnetworks [03:30] *** cpet has joined #arpnetworks [06:14] *** bharatak has joined #arpnetworks [06:15] greets, is running ntp recommended on the vps? or does the host take care of that? [06:17] Run your own NTP. [06:50] will do [07:20] bharatak: i use these good west coast servers in my ntp config: [07:20] http://pastebin.ca/1973687 [07:21] i'm just using the pool, shouldnt that magically figure out good servers? [07:21] it should be good enough... [07:22] but won't find servers that are close by... [07:22] probably doesn't matter much though [08:32] *** schmir has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection) [08:44] do you have any issues with stuff being screened ? [08:57] cpet, you mean a firewall before your vps? [08:59] seems open to me [09:17] *** LT has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving) [09:30] *** Tadaka has joined #arpnetworks [09:39] cpet: the only firewall settings infront of a vps is rate limiting ssh connections to your vps; most people don't notice, but attackers do [10:02] * ww hasn't noticed... but then hasn't tried to scp a large file into the vps... [10:02] do you rate limit SYN packets or everything? [10:02] It's not size, it's number of times. [10:03] aha. makes sense [10:11] re: ntp. I just use the pool. I don't need it any more accurate than that really (sure it's fun to figure out which one is the closest/best) [11:24] toddf: That's already applied? So my PF rules are for nothing? :P [11:25] depends on your PF rules [11:25] True [11:32] don't listen to him. [11:32] be an asshole and only, ONLY use stratum 1 servers. [11:32] bonus points if it's a restricted one and you haven't given them a heads-up. [11:33] heh [11:34] *** schmir has joined #arpnetworks [11:52] screen as in "screen irssi" [11:52] not a firewall [11:56] was supposed to be a trick question :) [12:14] tmux irssi ;) [12:15] tmux weechat [12:20] wow. weechat looks neat [12:20] I'm pretty happy with irssi though [12:20] I'm prety happy with screen instead of tmux, but I am a big fan of weechat. [12:20] I start new people on tmux and weechat, since those are actively developed projects. [12:20] irssi isn't actively developed? [12:20] is there something that tmux does that screen doesn't ? or is it just different [12:20] oh, hah. the FAQ goes right into that. [12:20] *** azmarco has quit IRC (Read error: Operation timed out) [12:22] *** azmarco has joined #arpnetworks [12:22] ah, just a different way. (generalized comment) [12:25] mike-burns: Are there OTR and/or fish stuff for weechat? [12:25] No idea. [12:28] That's kind of important for me :P [12:31] http://wiki.flashtux.org/wiki/WeeChat/irc-otr [12:31] http://www.weechat.org/files/scripts/weefish.rb [12:33] ohyeah. bitlbee works with it, /obviously/ [12:35] mike-burns: the flip side of that is how active does screen/tmux or irc client development really need to be? [12:35] irssi only has one bug that bites me, and it's relatively rare. [12:36] yeah. irssi is mature now, it shouldn't constant updates. [12:36] +require [12:36] It should be updated to be more convenient. [12:36] I get that openbsd wants tmux because it's !gnu, but the only draw for me on weechat is the sidebar. [12:37] and I'm not content to give up stability for that ;) [12:37] I guess. Convenient how? [12:37] sidebars are for people that can't remember what channels they [12:37] 're in. [12:37] tooth: i would like to see you try when you are on 20 different networks [12:37] lol [12:37] For example, weechat updates have things like that bar showing where you stopped reading. [12:38] I fully understand that my solution is a solution for me only, which is to cutdown on networks if I can't remember them. [12:38] vcs: I use irssi on multiple networks. I see which server and channel I'm in, for each window. [12:38] mike-burns, irssi has a trackbar. [12:38] jpalmer: its hard to remember where to switch to [12:38] in a timely manner [12:39] clients like irssi do not scale well [12:39] no, they don't [12:39] vcs: /window list doesn't work for you? [12:39] i've heard crazy people exist which maintain upwards of 40 channels with irssi [12:39] haha [12:39] im not insane [12:39] irssi was great for < 10 channels [12:40] but i no longer wish to subject myself to that [12:40] weechat also has split screens. [12:40] being on tons of networks / channels [12:40] *shrug* to each his own, I guess. I use irssi for well over 10 channel. not quite 40. and have *no* problems with it. [12:40] irssi isn't bad. [12:40] irssi is great, i just think it does not have what it takes [12:41] to scale well [12:41] it can handle it. just not as gracefully [12:41] this is one of the few times where i prefer GUI over cli [12:41] really, not a problem for most people [12:41] I actually like not having any sidebars. [12:42] tooth: or want a userlist without /names [12:42] haha. [12:42] also, i dont miss the ocasional lag i get running it remotely [12:43] xchat is nice, no bloat, and everything i want [12:43] yeah. i don't that. [12:43] has python, perl, and tcl [12:43] split screens would be nice, although I wonder if it works as badly as screen's split screen sdo. [12:43] irssi only has perl /me cringes [12:43] I figure if there are more people than can be shown on the side without scrolling, than I'm not going to care anyway [12:43] screen's vertical splitting sucks :/ [12:43] screen sucks in general [12:44] i rather use multiple logins [12:44] weechat has Ruby, Python, and a few other languages I know. [12:45] weechat is good [12:47] vcs: to each their own. I'd rather have one local window open per remote host. [12:47] jdoe: so would i until i have to break out screens highly unintuitive scrollback buffer [12:48] yeah on that note, i'm glad multiple options exist. [12:48] Tabbed terminals [12:48] is what i like [12:48] keeps it in one window [12:48] but gives me the option of moving them around on the fly [12:48] not at the mercy of doing man screen [12:52] tooth: NO, MY WAY IS THE BEST WAY. [12:54] * tooth sits corrected. [12:58] Multiple options is perfect. [12:59] anyway. the little detail that sold me on irssi, was that I was able to configure my date/time format to be different in the window than what is logged to disk. [13:00] Heh. [13:01] The thing that sold me on weechat was splits and things like Alt-a and Alt-u, plus Ctrl-r. [13:01] this was, of course, many years ago now. [13:30] does anyone have any gotchas to be aware of when reinstalling the OS on a VPS via console? getting ready to blow mine away soon. [13:30] Tadaka: what OS? [13:31] going to move from ubuntu to freebsd8.1 [13:32] ah very good. well just follow the HandBook [13:32] :) [13:32] ok, that's all I was wondering. :) [13:32] openbsd is the only gotcha, isn't it ? [13:32] it's pretty straight forward [13:32] tooth: OpenBSD has it's issues :P [13:32] just wanted to be ready for any possible surprises. [13:33] FreeBSD is, generally, pretty smooth going. [13:33] I've done freebsd a number of times, but this will be the first install on arpnetworks [13:33] ARPnetworks was basically made for FreeBSD. [13:33] gotta love that [13:34] I decided to give jaunty a try when I ordered my vps and regretted it almost immediately [13:34] Common reaction. [13:34] heh [13:35] just need the iso added to my system and Ill get that nasty ubuntu system off your network. :P [13:39] thanks for the confirmation folks [13:57] 2141 < tooth> i've heard crazy people exist which maintain upwards of 40 channels with irssi <- I'm one of those :) [13:59] *** jazz57 has joined #arpnetworks [14:06] mike-burns: I'm curious, how are vertical splits with wee-chat? they're super slow in screen, but I assumed that's because terminals aren't really optimized for scrolling half the screen up :/ [14:13] * RandalSchwartz waves [14:13] (from near the LHC!) [14:14] LHC! That's fantastic. [14:14] Just down the street from me. [14:15] (on a galactic scale, anyway) [14:15] well - literaelly only a few miles from me right now [14:16] toured it yesterday and today [14:16] COOL [14:16] would have gotten to go into the tube, but the experiment is live [14:16] so no chace [14:16] chance [14:16] awww. so close. [14:17] Wouldn't want a magnet quench while you're down there. [14:19] RandalSchwartz: LHC is a local hockey club here :D [14:20] So it's not *the* LHC [14:21] heh. it's *the* LHC for most of the world [14:23] I guess it depends on whether you're into sports or particle physics. [14:24] Has anyone figured out how to get the jitter down on NTP? No matter what I try it's always around 20ms. [14:27] jazz57: jitter: 0.011383 s [14:27] On my Xen VPS jitter is less than 1ms. [14:28] I'm not sure if that's b/c of Xen or the OS. [14:30] ww: Is that on FreeBSD? [14:31] jazz57: yes [14:31] That's a little better than what I'm getting. Any special configs? [14:33] I think Xen has a virtualized clock. [14:34] just a hand-picked set of peers http://pastebin.ca/1973687 [14:34] * ww is surprised ntp is such a popular topic on #arpnetworks these days [14:35] ww: same [14:35] I'm kind of a time nut. [14:36] I used to run a FreeBSD box with a GPS attached to the serial port. [14:36] Worked amazingly well with just a cheap automotive unit too. [14:37] i guess it wouldn't be the worst idea for arp to put up a couple of ntp servers for local use... keep the load off of the stratum 1s [14:38] if anyone at arp is using stratum 1's, they should be shot. [14:38] I doubt that would fix the jitter problem though. [14:38] well, except for specific reasons ;) and with consent. [14:38] Some servers are listed as public, go ahead and use, no notify necessary [14:39] jpalmer: everything in that list is a part of the ntp.org pool and open access [14:39] sure. but, unless you have a specific need for your time to be *that* dead-on, stratum 2 or stratum 3 are prefereable. leave the stratum 1's for those who actually *need* it. [14:40] when i made the list, i looked for hosts that were close in terms of network topology [14:40] ww: well, pool.ntp.org is a special case. if there are stratum 1's in there, great. I meant more about people specifically hunting stratum 1 peers [14:40] ... didn't actually pay attention to stratum. [14:41] ... they all happen to be 1 though [14:42] I just set mine to us.pool. [14:42] ww: Are your round trip times longer than your pings? [14:42] Err, I mean jitter. [14:42] but i agree in general... that's why it would be nice to have a local ntp server or two... [14:42] * jpalmer is perfectly happy with {0,1,2,3}.pool.ntp.org [14:43] i'd happily open up river.styx.org if there were interest [14:43] cute domain name [14:43] I would love to see a local GPS clock, though I think there is something limiting the precision in our setup. [14:43] does charon@styx.org exist? [14:44] charon.styx.org used to [14:44] ww: jazz57 GPS clock is no more accurate than pool.ntp.org. the only place where GPS timing makes more sense, is when there is no internet connectivity for a remote site. [14:45] on rtt, ping with ~600 byte packets are about the same as jitter [14:45] well, i won't say "no more accurate" but not substantially more accurate. [14:45] If it was on the local net, the delay and jitter would be much lower. When I ran my GPS server on the LAN, my other server immediately improved its performance. [14:46] But there must be something about the FreeBSD/ARP setup that is introducing quite a bit of jitter. [14:49] My Xen setup is an oder of magnitude more accurate for some reason. [14:50] stability: 0.000 ppm [14:51] I've got the same, but my best peer shows a jitter of 15 ms, whereas on Xen it's 0.056ms. Amazing. [14:52] RandalSchwartz: you should go into the tube anyway. Statistically, I'm sure you'll be fine... [14:52] jazz57: if you're using the ntp pool, don't worry about it. Your client will kick out useless peers. [14:53] jdoe: Problem is not the peer, though. They're *all* around 15-20ms. [14:54] I mean, that's not bad...I don't really *need* any more accuracy. I'm just wondering why its relatively higher. [14:54] Seems more a Windows box than Unix. ;-) [14:55] could be difference you see with xen is hypervisor vs. emulator/ [14:55] ? [14:55] ww: That what I'm thinking. [14:56] I just wish someone knew what was going on. More of a curiosity than a need. I think the pll loop will stay synched up to about 128ms, so no worries. [14:57] jdoe: I've noticed no speed issues with vertical splits in weechat. [14:59] hmm... maybe I'll give it another shot. To clarify I mean text scrolling speed not... I dunno, general app speed :) [15:00] *** nuke- has joined #arpnetworks [15:00] evening [15:01] cana nyone help me out on this - > znc.cpp:2069: fatal error: error writing to /tmp/ccc771ui.s: No space left on device [15:01] I just make a vertical split to try iy. [15:01] t [15:01] There is a tiny bit of lag. [15:01] But it's hard to say if it's because of the split. [15:02] Oh when I un-fullscreened my window the lag disappeared. [15:02] *** schmir has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection) [15:06] mike-burns can u give me hand? [15:09] nuke-: read the error message? [15:10] yes but i cant dump /tmp can i? [15:10] earse/dump [15:15] *** jazz57 has left [15:17] dxtr? [15:18] Uhm, you're out of space on /tmp. You'll have to make it larger. [15:19] but i never got this before, theres no way of dumping it? [15:20] or erase whats there? [15:20] cause its /tmp seems empty [15:20] df -h [15:20] Or du -hs /tmp [15:21] first gives me this [15:21] Filesystem Size Used Avail Use% Mounted on [15:21] tmpfs 124M 0 124M 0% /lib/init/rw [15:21] udev 10M 572K 9.5M 6% /dev [15:21] tmpfs 124M 0 124M 0% /dev/shm [15:21] overflow 1.0M 0 1.0M 0% /tmp [15:22] second this [15:22] du -hs /tmp [15:22] err [15:22] 0 /tmp [15:23] Your /tmp is 1MB big [15:23] mike-burns: yeah... that's what I was expecting. My understanding is it's not a screen/weechat/whatever-specific issue, the terminal has shortcuts for scrolling the entire window, just not parts of it. [15:54] *** richardq has joined #arpnetworks [15:54] hello garry [15:55] *** richardq has left [16:05] for you time nazzi's .. until vmt(4) or a similar driver exists for kvm guests, where the guest can sync its time with the host, and the host uses accurate ntp timing, running ntp on a kvm system is only going to get you so much accuracy .. ;-) [16:15] toddf: One of the things I like with kvm is that the guests can set their own time [16:15] I had another VPS on some-popular-virtualization-technology-I-don't-remember-the-name-of that didn't let me set the time [16:16] And the host was so horribly out of sync it was disgusting [16:22] dxtr: it is not virtualization if you don't have root and can set your time [16:22] there are some sites which claim to be virtualization but infact are glorified chroot() env's [16:23] toddf: It's really popular among vps companies [16:23] it would be popular to run something that doesn't require resources of a true vps [16:24] i.e. it's more efficient and cost effective if you want to run linux .. [16:24] most of us here don't [16:24] OpenVZ! [16:25] That's it [16:25] "It is similar to FreeBSD Jails and Solaris Zones." [16:25] Bleh [16:25] like I said, glorified chroot [16:26] Yeah [16:26] Didn't know that :P [16:26] I just knew it ucks [16:26] sucks* [16:32] toddf: I was going to say, it's largely a moot point... if you're that sensitive to jitter you shouldn't be on a vps :P [18:04] /// [18:04] *** bharatak has quit IRC (Quit: leaving) [18:30] *** up_the_irons has quit IRC (Read error: Operation timed out) [18:32] *** mike-burns has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer) [18:32] *** mike-burns has joined #arpnetworks [18:32] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o mike-burns [18:33] *** nuke- has quit IRC (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.sourceforge.net) [18:33] *** nukefree has joined #arpnetworks [18:33] *** up_the_irons has joined #arpnetworks [18:33] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o up_the_irons [19:21] *** fink has joined #arpnetworks [19:26] *** cpet has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection) [20:17] RandalSchwartz: what DNS server do you use? [20:18] up_the_irons: you had recommended a DNS server months ago, you said it was the hottest new thing? [20:19] fink: for backup, or hosting your own zone? or a recursive server? [20:19] hosting [20:19] (ie, what are you looking to do) [20:19] ok, dns.he.net free, and solid. [20:20] thanks [20:20] sure [20:21] btw: it'll also work as a slave, if you want to run your own DNS master. [20:29] jpalmer: atm i'm using tinydns [20:51] never used it. if it does BIND style zone transfers, he.net servers should be able to slave the zone. [21:22] *** fink has quit IRC (Quit: fink)