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bharatak has joined #arpnetworks bharatak: greets, is running ntp recommended on the vps? or does the host take care of that? mike-burns: Run your own NTP. bharatak: will do ww: bharatak: i use these good west coast servers in my ntp config:
http://pastebin.ca/1973687 bharatak: i'm just using the pool, shouldnt that magically figure out good servers? ww: it should be good enough...
but won't find servers that are close by...
probably doesn't matter much though ***: schmir has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection) cpet: do you have any issues with stuff being screened ? bharatak: cpet, you mean a firewall before your vps?
seems open to me ***: LT has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving)
Tadaka has joined #arpnetworks toddf: cpet: the only firewall settings infront of a vps is rate limiting ssh connections to your vps; most people don't notice, but attackers do -: ww hasn't noticed... but then hasn't tried to scp a large file into the vps... ww: do you rate limit SYN packets or everything? mike-burns: It's not size, it's number of times. ww: aha. makes sense tooth: re: ntp. I just use the pool. I don't need it any more accurate than that really (sure it's fun to figure out which one is the closest/best) dxtr: toddf: That's already applied? So my PF rules are for nothing? :P tooth: depends on your PF rules dxtr: True jdoe: don't listen to him.
be an asshole and only, ONLY use stratum 1 servers.
bonus points if it's a restricted one and you haven't given them a heads-up. jpalmer: heh ***: schmir has joined #arpnetworks cpet: screen as in "screen irssi"
not a firewall
was supposed to be a trick question :) bharatak: tmux irssi ;) mike-burns: tmux weechat tooth: wow. weechat looks neat
I'm pretty happy with irssi though mike-burns: I'm prety happy with screen instead of tmux, but I am a big fan of weechat.
I start new people on tmux and weechat, since those are actively developed projects. jpalmer: irssi isn't actively developed? tooth: is there something that tmux does that screen doesn't ? or is it just different
oh, hah. the FAQ goes right into that. ***: azmarco has quit IRC (Read error: Operation timed out)
azmarco has joined #arpnetworks tooth: ah, just a different way. (generalized comment) dxtr: mike-burns: Are there OTR and/or fish stuff for weechat? mike-burns: No idea. dxtr: That's kind of important for me :P mike-burns: http://wiki.flashtux.org/wiki/WeeChat/irc-otr
http://www.weechat.org/files/scripts/weefish.rb tooth: ohyeah. bitlbee works with it, /obviously/ jdoe: mike-burns: the flip side of that is how active does screen/tmux or irc client development really need to be?
irssi only has one bug that bites me, and it's relatively rare. tooth: yeah. irssi is mature now, it shouldn't constant updates.
+require mike-burns: It should be updated to be more convenient. jdoe: I get that openbsd wants tmux because it's !gnu, but the only draw for me on weechat is the sidebar.
and I'm not content to give up stability for that ;)
I guess. Convenient how? tooth: sidebars are for people that can't remember what channels they
're in. vcs: tooth: i would like to see you try when you are on 20 different networks
lol mike-burns: For example, weechat updates have things like that bar showing where you stopped reading. tooth: I fully understand that my solution is a solution for me only, which is to cutdown on networks if I can't remember them. jpalmer: vcs: I use irssi on multiple networks. I see which server and channel I'm in, for each window. tooth: mike-burns, irssi has a trackbar. vcs: jpalmer: its hard to remember where to switch to
in a timely manner
clients like irssi do not scale well tooth: no, they don't jpalmer: vcs: /window list doesn't work for you? tooth: i've heard crazy people exist which maintain upwards of 40 channels with irssi vcs: haha
im not insane
irssi was great for < 10 channels
but i no longer wish to subject myself to that mike-burns: weechat also has split screens. vcs: being on tons of networks / channels jpalmer: *shrug* to each his own, I guess. I use irssi for well over 10 channel. not quite 40. and have *no* problems with it. mike-burns: irssi isn't bad. vcs: irssi is great, i just think it does not have what it takes
to scale well tooth: it can handle it. just not as gracefully vcs: this is one of the few times where i prefer GUI over cli tooth: really, not a problem for most people
I actually like not having any sidebars. jdoe: tooth: or want a userlist without /names
haha. vcs: also, i dont miss the ocasional lag i get running it remotely
xchat is nice, no bloat, and everything i want tooth: yeah. i don't that. vcs: has python, perl, and tcl jdoe: split screens would be nice, although I wonder if it works as badly as screen's split screen sdo. vcs: irssi only has perl /me cringes tooth: I figure if there are more people than can be shown on the side without scrolling, than I'm not going to care anyway jdoe: screen's vertical splitting sucks :/ vcs: screen sucks in general
i rather use multiple logins mike-burns: weechat has Ruby, Python, and a few other languages I know. vcs: weechat is good jdoe: vcs: to each their own. I'd rather have one local window open per remote host. vcs: jdoe: so would i until i have to break out screens highly unintuitive scrollback buffer tooth: yeah on that note, i'm glad multiple options exist. vcs: Tabbed terminals
is what i like
keeps it in one window
but gives me the option of moving them around on the fly
not at the mercy of doing man screen jdoe: tooth: NO, MY WAY IS THE BEST WAY. -: tooth sits corrected. mike-burns: Multiple options is perfect. tooth: anyway. the little detail that sold me on irssi, was that I was able to configure my date/time format to be different in the window than what is logged to disk. mike-burns: Heh.
The thing that sold me on weechat was splits and things like Alt-a and Alt-u, plus Ctrl-r. tooth: this was, of course, many years ago now. Tadaka: does anyone have any gotchas to be aware of when reinstalling the OS on a VPS via console? getting ready to blow mine away soon. nesta: Tadaka: what OS? Tadaka: going to move from ubuntu to freebsd8.1 nesta: ah very good. well just follow the HandBook
:) Tadaka: ok, that's all I was wondering. :) tooth: openbsd is the only gotcha, isn't it ? nesta: it's pretty straight forward
tooth: OpenBSD has it's issues :P Tadaka: just wanted to be ready for any possible surprises. nesta: FreeBSD is, generally, pretty smooth going. Tadaka: I've done freebsd a number of times, but this will be the first install on arpnetworks mike-burns: ARPnetworks was basically made for FreeBSD. Tadaka: gotta love that
I decided to give jaunty a try when I ordered my vps and regretted it almost immediately mike-burns: Common reaction. Tadaka: heh
just need the iso added to my system and Ill get that nasty ubuntu system off your network. :P
thanks for the confirmation folks dxtr: 2141 < tooth> i've heard crazy people exist which maintain upwards of 40 channels with irssi <- I'm one of those :) ***: jazz57 has joined #arpnetworks jdoe: mike-burns: I'm curious, how are vertical splits with wee-chat? they're super slow in screen, but I assumed that's because terminals aren't really optimized for scrolling half the screen up :/ -: RandalSchwartz waves RandalSchwartz: (from near the LHC!) jazz57: LHC! That's fantastic. tooth: Just down the street from me.
(on a galactic scale, anyway) RandalSchwartz: well - literaelly only a few miles from me right now
toured it yesterday and today tooth: COOL RandalSchwartz: would have gotten to go into the tube, but the experiment is live
so no chace
chance tooth: awww. so close. jazz57: Wouldn't want a magnet quench while you're down there. dxtr: RandalSchwartz: LHC is a local hockey club here :D jazz57: So it's not *the* LHC RandalSchwartz: heh. it's *the* LHC for most of the world jazz57: I guess it depends on whether you're into sports or particle physics.
Has anyone figured out how to get the jitter down on NTP? No matter what I try it's always around 20ms. ww: jazz57: jitter: 0.011383 s jazz57: On my Xen VPS jitter is less than 1ms.
I'm not sure if that's b/c of Xen or the OS.
ww: Is that on FreeBSD? ww: jazz57: yes jazz57: That's a little better than what I'm getting. Any special configs?
I think Xen has a virtualized clock. ww: just a hand-picked set of peers http://pastebin.ca/1973687 -: ww is surprised ntp is such a popular topic on #arpnetworks these days jpalmer: ww: same jazz57: I'm kind of a time nut.
I used to run a FreeBSD box with a GPS attached to the serial port.
Worked amazingly well with just a cheap automotive unit too. ww: i guess it wouldn't be the worst idea for arp to put up a couple of ntp servers for local use... keep the load off of the stratum 1s jpalmer: if anyone at arp is using stratum 1's, they should be shot. jazz57: I doubt that would fix the jitter problem though. jpalmer: well, except for specific reasons ;) and with consent. jazz57: Some servers are listed as public, go ahead and use, no notify necessary ww: jpalmer: everything in that list is a part of the ntp.org pool and open access jpalmer: sure. but, unless you have a specific need for your time to be *that* dead-on, stratum 2 or stratum 3 are prefereable. leave the stratum 1's for those who actually *need* it. ww: when i made the list, i looked for hosts that were close in terms of network topology jpalmer: ww: well, pool.ntp.org is a special case. if there are stratum 1's in there, great. I meant more about people specifically hunting stratum 1 peers ww: ... didn't actually pay attention to stratum.
... they all happen to be 1 though tooth: I just set mine to us.pool. jazz57: ww: Are your round trip times longer than your pings?
Err, I mean jitter. ww: but i agree in general... that's why it would be nice to have a local ntp server or two... -: jpalmer is perfectly happy with {0,1,2,3}.pool.ntp.org ww: i'd happily open up river.styx.org if there were interest tooth: cute domain name jazz57: I would love to see a local GPS clock, though I think there is something limiting the precision in our setup. tooth: does charon@styx.org exist? ww: charon.styx.org used to jpalmer: ww: jazz57 GPS clock is no more accurate than pool.ntp.org. the only place where GPS timing makes more sense, is when there is no internet connectivity for a remote site. ww: on rtt, ping with ~600 byte packets are about the same as jitter jpalmer: well, i won't say "no more accurate" but not substantially more accurate. jazz57: If it was on the local net, the delay and jitter would be much lower. When I ran my GPS server on the LAN, my other server immediately improved its performance.
But there must be something about the FreeBSD/ARP setup that is introducing quite a bit of jitter.
My Xen setup is an oder of magnitude more accurate for some reason. ww: stability: 0.000 ppm jazz57: I've got the same, but my best peer shows a jitter of 15 ms, whereas on Xen it's 0.056ms. Amazing. jdoe: RandalSchwartz: you should go into the tube anyway. Statistically, I'm sure you'll be fine...
jazz57: if you're using the ntp pool, don't worry about it. Your client will kick out useless peers. jazz57: jdoe: Problem is not the peer, though. They're *all* around 15-20ms.
I mean, that's not bad...I don't really *need* any more accuracy. I'm just wondering why its relatively higher.
Seems more a Windows box than Unix. ;-) ww: could be difference you see with xen is hypervisor vs. emulator/
? jazz57: ww: That what I'm thinking.
I just wish someone knew what was going on. More of a curiosity than a need. I think the pll loop will stay synched up to about 128ms, so no worries. mike-burns: jdoe: I've noticed no speed issues with vertical splits in weechat. jdoe: hmm... maybe I'll give it another shot. To clarify I mean text scrolling speed not... I dunno, general app speed :) ***: nuke- has joined #arpnetworks nuke-: evening
cana nyone help me out on this - > znc.cpp:2069: fatal error: error writing to /tmp/ccc771ui.s: No space left on device mike-burns: I just make a vertical split to try iy.
t
There is a tiny bit of lag.
But it's hard to say if it's because of the split.
Oh when I un-fullscreened my window the lag disappeared. ***: schmir has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection) nuke-: mike-burns can u give me hand? dxtr: nuke-: read the error message? nuke-: yes but i cant dump /tmp can i?
earse/dump ***: jazz57 has left nuke-: dxtr? dxtr: Uhm, you're out of space on /tmp. You'll have to make it larger. nuke-: but i never got this before, theres no way of dumping it?
or erase whats there?
cause its /tmp seems empty dxtr: df -h
Or du -hs /tmp nuke-: first gives me this
Filesystem Size Used Avail Use% Mounted on
tmpfs 124M 0 124M 0% /lib/init/rw
udev 10M 572K 9.5M 6% /dev
tmpfs 124M 0 124M 0% /dev/shm
overflow 1.0M 0 1.0M 0% /tmp
second this
du -hs /tmp dxtr: err nuke-: 0 /tmp dxtr: Your /tmp is 1MB big jdoe: mike-burns: yeah... that's what I was expecting. My understanding is it's not a screen/weechat/whatever-specific issue, the terminal has shortcuts for scrolling the entire window, just not parts of it. ***: richardq has joined #arpnetworks richardq: hello garry ***: richardq has left toddf: for you time nazzi's .. until vmt(4) or a similar driver exists for kvm guests, where the guest can sync its time with the host, and the host uses accurate ntp timing, running ntp on a kvm system is only going to get you so much accuracy .. ;-) dxtr: toddf: One of the things I like with kvm is that the guests can set their own time
I had another VPS on some-popular-virtualization-technology-I-don't-remember-the-name-of that didn't let me set the time
And the host was so horribly out of sync it was disgusting toddf: dxtr: it is not virtualization if you don't have root and can set your time
there are some sites which claim to be virtualization but infact are glorified chroot() env's dxtr: toddf: It's really popular among vps companies toddf: it would be popular to run something that doesn't require resources of a true vps
i.e. it's more efficient and cost effective if you want to run linux ..
most of us here don't dxtr: OpenVZ!
That's it
"It is similar to FreeBSD Jails and Solaris Zones."
Bleh toddf: like I said, glorified chroot dxtr: Yeah
Didn't know that :P
I just knew it ucks
sucks* jdoe: toddf: I was going to say, it's largely a moot point... if you're that sensitive to jitter you shouldn't be on a vps :P bharatak: /// ***: bharatak has quit IRC (Quit: leaving)
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cpet has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection) fink: RandalSchwartz: what DNS server do you use?
up_the_irons: you had recommended a DNS server months ago, you said it was the hottest new thing? jpalmer: fink: for backup, or hosting your own zone? or a recursive server? fink: hosting jpalmer: (ie, what are you looking to do)
ok, dns.he.net free, and solid. fink: thanks jpalmer: sure
btw: it'll also work as a slave, if you want to run your own DNS master. fink: jpalmer: atm i'm using tinydns jpalmer: never used it. if it does BIND style zone transfers, he.net servers should be able to slave the zone. ***: fink has quit IRC (Quit: fink)