***: shatt has joined #arpnetworks
mjp has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
mjp has joined #arpnetworks
koan has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
koan has joined #arpnetworks
ww has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
ww has joined #arpnetworks
schmir has joined #arpnetworks
LT has joined #arpnetworks
heidar has quit IRC (Read error: Operation timed out)
heidar has joined #arpnetworks
cpet has joined #arpnetworks
bharatak has joined #arpnetworks
bharatak: greets, is running ntp recommended on the vps? or does the host take care of that?
mike-burns: Run your own NTP.
bharatak: will do
ww: bharatak: i use these good west coast servers in my ntp config:
http://pastebin.ca/1973687
bharatak: i'm just using the pool, shouldnt that magically figure out good servers?
ww: it should be good enough...
but won't find servers that are close by...
probably doesn't matter much though
***: schmir has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection)
cpet: do you have any issues with stuff being screened ?
bharatak: cpet, you mean a firewall before your vps?
seems open to me
***: LT has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving)
Tadaka has joined #arpnetworks
toddf: cpet: the only firewall settings infront of a vps is rate limiting ssh connections to your vps; most people don't notice, but attackers do
-: ww hasn't noticed... but then hasn't tried to scp a large file into the vps...
ww: do you rate limit SYN packets or everything?
mike-burns: It's not size, it's number of times.
ww: aha. makes sense
tooth: re: ntp. I just use the pool. I don't need it any more accurate than that really (sure it's fun to figure out which one is the closest/best)
dxtr: toddf: That's already applied? So my PF rules are for nothing? :P
tooth: depends on your PF rules
dxtr: True
jdoe: don't listen to him.
be an asshole and only, ONLY use stratum 1 servers.
bonus points if it's a restricted one and you haven't given them a heads-up.
jpalmer: heh
***: schmir has joined #arpnetworks
cpet: screen as in "screen irssi"
not a firewall
was supposed to be a trick question :)
bharatak: tmux irssi ;)
mike-burns: tmux weechat
tooth: wow. weechat looks neat
I'm pretty happy with irssi though
mike-burns: I'm prety happy with screen instead of tmux, but I am a big fan of weechat.
I start new people on tmux and weechat, since those are actively developed projects.
jpalmer: irssi isn't actively developed?
tooth: is there something that tmux does that screen doesn't ? or is it just different
oh, hah. the FAQ goes right into that.
***: azmarco has quit IRC (Read error: Operation timed out)
azmarco has joined #arpnetworks
tooth: ah, just a different way. (generalized comment)
dxtr: mike-burns: Are there OTR and/or fish stuff for weechat?
mike-burns: No idea.
dxtr: That's kind of important for me :P
mike-burns: http://wiki.flashtux.org/wiki/WeeChat/irc-otr
http://www.weechat.org/files/scripts/weefish.rb
tooth: ohyeah. bitlbee works with it, /obviously/
jdoe: mike-burns: the flip side of that is how active does screen/tmux or irc client development really need to be?
irssi only has one bug that bites me, and it's relatively rare.
tooth: yeah. irssi is mature now, it shouldn't constant updates.
+require
mike-burns: It should be updated to be more convenient.
jdoe: I get that openbsd wants tmux because it's !gnu, but the only draw for me on weechat is the sidebar.
and I'm not content to give up stability for that ;)
I guess. Convenient how?
tooth: sidebars are for people that can't remember what channels they
're in.
vcs: tooth: i would like to see you try when you are on 20 different networks
lol
mike-burns: For example, weechat updates have things like that bar showing where you stopped reading.
tooth: I fully understand that my solution is a solution for me only, which is to cutdown on networks if I can't remember them.
jpalmer: vcs: I use irssi on multiple networks. I see which server and channel I'm in, for each window.
tooth: mike-burns, irssi has a trackbar.
vcs: jpalmer: its hard to remember where to switch to
in a timely manner
clients like irssi do not scale well
tooth: no, they don't
jpalmer: vcs: /window list doesn't work for you?
tooth: i've heard crazy people exist which maintain upwards of 40 channels with irssi
vcs: haha
im not insane
irssi was great for < 10 channels
but i no longer wish to subject myself to that
mike-burns: weechat also has split screens.
vcs: being on tons of networks / channels
jpalmer: *shrug* to each his own, I guess. I use irssi for well over 10 channel. not quite 40. and have *no* problems with it.
mike-burns: irssi isn't bad.
vcs: irssi is great, i just think it does not have what it takes
to scale well
tooth: it can handle it. just not as gracefully
vcs: this is one of the few times where i prefer GUI over cli
tooth: really, not a problem for most people
I actually like not having any sidebars.
jdoe: tooth: or want a userlist without /names
haha.
vcs: also, i dont miss the ocasional lag i get running it remotely
xchat is nice, no bloat, and everything i want
tooth: yeah. i don't that.
vcs: has python, perl, and tcl
jdoe: split screens would be nice, although I wonder if it works as badly as screen's split screen sdo.
vcs: irssi only has perl /me cringes
tooth: I figure if there are more people than can be shown on the side without scrolling, than I'm not going to care anyway
jdoe: screen's vertical splitting sucks :/
vcs: screen sucks in general
i rather use multiple logins
mike-burns: weechat has Ruby, Python, and a few other languages I know.
vcs: weechat is good
jdoe: vcs: to each their own. I'd rather have one local window open per remote host.
vcs: jdoe: so would i until i have to break out screens highly unintuitive scrollback buffer
tooth: yeah on that note, i'm glad multiple options exist.
vcs: Tabbed terminals
is what i like
keeps it in one window
but gives me the option of moving them around on the fly
not at the mercy of doing man screen
jdoe: tooth: NO, MY WAY IS THE BEST WAY.
-: tooth sits corrected.
mike-burns: Multiple options is perfect.
tooth: anyway. the little detail that sold me on irssi, was that I was able to configure my date/time format to be different in the window than what is logged to disk.
mike-burns: Heh.
The thing that sold me on weechat was splits and things like Alt-a and Alt-u, plus Ctrl-r.
tooth: this was, of course, many years ago now.
Tadaka: does anyone have any gotchas to be aware of when reinstalling the OS on a VPS via console? getting ready to blow mine away soon.
nesta: Tadaka: what OS?
Tadaka: going to move from ubuntu to freebsd8.1
nesta: ah very good. well just follow the HandBook
:)
Tadaka: ok, that's all I was wondering. :)
tooth: openbsd is the only gotcha, isn't it ?
nesta: it's pretty straight forward
tooth: OpenBSD has it's issues :P
Tadaka: just wanted to be ready for any possible surprises.
nesta: FreeBSD is, generally, pretty smooth going.
Tadaka: I've done freebsd a number of times, but this will be the first install on arpnetworks
mike-burns: ARPnetworks was basically made for FreeBSD.
Tadaka: gotta love that
I decided to give jaunty a try when I ordered my vps and regretted it almost immediately
mike-burns: Common reaction.
Tadaka: heh
just need the iso added to my system and Ill get that nasty ubuntu system off your network. :P
thanks for the confirmation folks
dxtr: 2141 < tooth> i've heard crazy people exist which maintain upwards of 40 channels with irssi <- I'm one of those :)
***: jazz57 has joined #arpnetworks
jdoe: mike-burns: I'm curious, how are vertical splits with wee-chat? they're super slow in screen, but I assumed that's because terminals aren't really optimized for scrolling half the screen up :/
-: RandalSchwartz waves
RandalSchwartz: (from near the LHC!)
jazz57: LHC! That's fantastic.
tooth: Just down the street from me.
(on a galactic scale, anyway)
RandalSchwartz: well - literaelly only a few miles from me right now
toured it yesterday and today
tooth: COOL
RandalSchwartz: would have gotten to go into the tube, but the experiment is live
so no chace
chance
tooth: awww. so close.
jazz57: Wouldn't want a magnet quench while you're down there.
dxtr: RandalSchwartz: LHC is a local hockey club here :D
jazz57: So it's not *the* LHC
RandalSchwartz: heh. it's *the* LHC for most of the world
jazz57: I guess it depends on whether you're into sports or particle physics.
Has anyone figured out how to get the jitter down on NTP? No matter what I try it's always around 20ms.
ww: jazz57: jitter: 0.011383 s
jazz57: On my Xen VPS jitter is less than 1ms.
I'm not sure if that's b/c of Xen or the OS.
ww: Is that on FreeBSD?
ww: jazz57: yes
jazz57: That's a little better than what I'm getting. Any special configs?
I think Xen has a virtualized clock.
ww: just a hand-picked set of peers http://pastebin.ca/1973687
-: ww is surprised ntp is such a popular topic on #arpnetworks these days
jpalmer: ww: same
jazz57: I'm kind of a time nut.
I used to run a FreeBSD box with a GPS attached to the serial port.
Worked amazingly well with just a cheap automotive unit too.
ww: i guess it wouldn't be the worst idea for arp to put up a couple of ntp servers for local use... keep the load off of the stratum 1s
jpalmer: if anyone at arp is using stratum 1's, they should be shot.
jazz57: I doubt that would fix the jitter problem though.
jpalmer: well, except for specific reasons ;) and with consent.
jazz57: Some servers are listed as public, go ahead and use, no notify necessary
ww: jpalmer: everything in that list is a part of the ntp.org pool and open access
jpalmer: sure. but, unless you have a specific need for your time to be *that* dead-on, stratum 2 or stratum 3 are prefereable. leave the stratum 1's for those who actually *need* it.
ww: when i made the list, i looked for hosts that were close in terms of network topology
jpalmer: ww: well, pool.ntp.org is a special case. if there are stratum 1's in there, great. I meant more about people specifically hunting stratum 1 peers
ww: ... didn't actually pay attention to stratum.
... they all happen to be 1 though
tooth: I just set mine to us.pool.
jazz57: ww: Are your round trip times longer than your pings?
Err, I mean jitter.
ww: but i agree in general... that's why it would be nice to have a local ntp server or two...
-: jpalmer is perfectly happy with {0,1,2,3}.pool.ntp.org
ww: i'd happily open up river.styx.org if there were interest
tooth: cute domain name
jazz57: I would love to see a local GPS clock, though I think there is something limiting the precision in our setup.
tooth: does charon@styx.org exist?
ww: charon.styx.org used to
jpalmer: ww: jazz57 GPS clock is no more accurate than pool.ntp.org. the only place where GPS timing makes more sense, is when there is no internet connectivity for a remote site.
ww: on rtt, ping with ~600 byte packets are about the same as jitter
jpalmer: well, i won't say "no more accurate" but not substantially more accurate.
jazz57: If it was on the local net, the delay and jitter would be much lower. When I ran my GPS server on the LAN, my other server immediately improved its performance.
But there must be something about the FreeBSD/ARP setup that is introducing quite a bit of jitter.
My Xen setup is an oder of magnitude more accurate for some reason.
ww: stability: 0.000 ppm
jazz57: I've got the same, but my best peer shows a jitter of 15 ms, whereas on Xen it's 0.056ms. Amazing.
jdoe: RandalSchwartz: you should go into the tube anyway. Statistically, I'm sure you'll be fine...
jazz57: if you're using the ntp pool, don't worry about it. Your client will kick out useless peers.
jazz57: jdoe: Problem is not the peer, though. They're *all* around 15-20ms.
I mean, that's not bad...I don't really *need* any more accuracy. I'm just wondering why its relatively higher.
Seems more a Windows box than Unix. ;-)
ww: could be difference you see with xen is hypervisor vs. emulator/
?
jazz57: ww: That what I'm thinking.
I just wish someone knew what was going on. More of a curiosity than a need. I think the pll loop will stay synched up to about 128ms, so no worries.
mike-burns: jdoe: I've noticed no speed issues with vertical splits in weechat.
jdoe: hmm... maybe I'll give it another shot. To clarify I mean text scrolling speed not... I dunno, general app speed :)
***: nuke- has joined #arpnetworks
nuke-: evening
cana nyone help me out on this - > znc.cpp:2069: fatal error: error writing to /tmp/ccc771ui.s: No space left on device
mike-burns: I just make a vertical split to try iy.
t
There is a tiny bit of lag.
But it's hard to say if it's because of the split.
Oh when I un-fullscreened my window the lag disappeared.
***: schmir has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection)
nuke-: mike-burns can u give me hand?
dxtr: nuke-: read the error message?
nuke-: yes but i cant dump /tmp can i?
earse/dump
***: jazz57 has left
nuke-: dxtr?
dxtr: Uhm, you're out of space on /tmp. You'll have to make it larger.
nuke-: but i never got this before, theres no way of dumping it?
or erase whats there?
cause its /tmp seems empty
dxtr: df -h
Or du -hs /tmp
nuke-: first gives me this
Filesystem Size Used Avail Use% Mounted on
tmpfs 124M 0 124M 0% /lib/init/rw
udev 10M 572K 9.5M 6% /dev
tmpfs 124M 0 124M 0% /dev/shm
overflow 1.0M 0 1.0M 0% /tmp
second this
du -hs /tmp
dxtr: err
nuke-: 0 /tmp
dxtr: Your /tmp is 1MB big
jdoe: mike-burns: yeah... that's what I was expecting. My understanding is it's not a screen/weechat/whatever-specific issue, the terminal has shortcuts for scrolling the entire window, just not parts of it.
***: richardq has joined #arpnetworks
richardq: hello garry
***: richardq has left
toddf: for you time nazzi's .. until vmt(4) or a similar driver exists for kvm guests, where the guest can sync its time with the host, and the host uses accurate ntp timing, running ntp on a kvm system is only going to get you so much accuracy .. ;-)
dxtr: toddf: One of the things I like with kvm is that the guests can set their own time
I had another VPS on some-popular-virtualization-technology-I-don't-remember-the-name-of that didn't let me set the time
And the host was so horribly out of sync it was disgusting
toddf: dxtr: it is not virtualization if you don't have root and can set your time
there are some sites which claim to be virtualization but infact are glorified chroot() env's
dxtr: toddf: It's really popular among vps companies
toddf: it would be popular to run something that doesn't require resources of a true vps
i.e. it's more efficient and cost effective if you want to run linux ..
most of us here don't
dxtr: OpenVZ!
That's it
"It is similar to FreeBSD Jails and Solaris Zones."
Bleh
toddf: like I said, glorified chroot
dxtr: Yeah
Didn't know that :P
I just knew it ucks
sucks*
jdoe: toddf: I was going to say, it's largely a moot point... if you're that sensitive to jitter you shouldn't be on a vps :P
bharatak: ///
***: bharatak has quit IRC (Quit: leaving)
up_the_irons has quit IRC (Read error: Operation timed out)
mike-burns has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
mike-burns has joined #arpnetworks
ChanServ sets mode: +o mike-burns
nuke- has quit IRC (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.sourceforge.net)
nukefree has joined #arpnetworks
up_the_irons has joined #arpnetworks
ChanServ sets mode: +o up_the_irons
fink has joined #arpnetworks
cpet has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection)
fink: RandalSchwartz: what DNS server do you use?
up_the_irons: you had recommended a DNS server months ago, you said it was the hottest new thing?
jpalmer: fink: for backup, or hosting your own zone? or a recursive server?
fink: hosting
jpalmer: (ie, what are you looking to do)
ok, dns.he.net free, and solid.
fink: thanks
jpalmer: sure
btw: it'll also work as a slave, if you want to run your own DNS master.
fink: jpalmer: atm i'm using tinydns
jpalmer: never used it. if it does BIND style zone transfers, he.net servers should be able to slave the zone.
***: fink has quit IRC (Quit: fink)