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| Who | What | When |
|---|---|---|
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| bharatak | greets, is running ntp recommended on the vps? or does the host take care of that? | [06:15] |
| mike-burns | Run your own NTP. | [06:17] |
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| bharatak | will do | [06:50] |
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| ww | bharatak: i use these good west coast servers in my ntp config:
http://pastebin.ca/1973687 | [07:20] |
| bharatak | i'm just using the pool, shouldnt that magically figure out good servers? | [07:21] |
| ww | it should be good enough...
but won't find servers that are close by... probably doesn't matter much though | [07:21] |
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| *** | schmir has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection) | [08:32] |
| cpet | do you have any issues with stuff being screened ? | [08:44] |
| bharatak | cpet, you mean a firewall before your vps?
seems open to me | [08:57] |
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| toddf | cpet: the only firewall settings infront of a vps is rate limiting ssh connections to your vps; most people don't notice, but attackers do | [09:39] |
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| ww | ww hasn't noticed... but then hasn't tried to scp a large file into the vps...
do you rate limit SYN packets or everything? | [10:02] |
| mike-burns | It's not size, it's number of times. | [10:02] |
| ww | aha. makes sense | [10:03] |
| tooth | re: ntp. I just use the pool. I don't need it any more accurate than that really (sure it's fun to figure out which one is the closest/best) | [10:11] |
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| dxtr | toddf: That's already applied? So my PF rules are for nothing? :P | [11:24] |
| tooth | depends on your PF rules | [11:25] |
| dxtr | True | [11:25] |
| jdoe | don't listen to him.
be an asshole and only, ONLY use stratum 1 servers. bonus points if it's a restricted one and you haven't given them a heads-up. | [11:32] |
| jpalmer | heh | [11:33] |
| *** | schmir has joined #arpnetworks | [11:34] |
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| cpet | screen as in "screen irssi"
not a firewall was supposed to be a trick question :) | [11:52] |
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| bharatak | tmux irssi ;) | [12:14] |
| mike-burns | tmux weechat | [12:15] |
| tooth | wow. weechat looks neat
I'm pretty happy with irssi though | [12:20] |
| mike-burns | I'm prety happy with screen instead of tmux, but I am a big fan of weechat.
I start new people on tmux and weechat, since those are actively developed projects. | [12:20] |
| jpalmer | irssi isn't actively developed? | [12:20] |
| tooth | is there something that tmux does that screen doesn't ? or is it just different
oh, hah. the FAQ goes right into that. | [12:20] |
| *** | azmarco has quit IRC (Read error: Operation timed out)
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| tooth | ah, just a different way. (generalized comment) | [12:22] |
| dxtr | mike-burns: Are there OTR and/or fish stuff for weechat? | [12:25] |
| mike-burns | No idea. | [12:25] |
| dxtr | That's kind of important for me :P | [12:28] |
| mike-burns | http://wiki.flashtux.org/wiki/WeeChat/irc-otr
http://www.weechat.org/files/scripts/weefish.rb | [12:31] |
| tooth | ohyeah. bitlbee works with it, /obviously/ | [12:33] |
| jdoe | mike-burns: the flip side of that is how active does screen/tmux or irc client development really need to be?
irssi only has one bug that bites me, and it's relatively rare. | [12:35] |
| tooth | yeah. irssi is mature now, it shouldn't constant updates.
+require | [12:36] |
| mike-burns | It should be updated to be more convenient. | [12:36] |
| jdoe | I get that openbsd wants tmux because it's !gnu, but the only draw for me on weechat is the sidebar.
and I'm not content to give up stability for that ;) I guess. Convenient how? | [12:36] |
| tooth | sidebars are for people that can't remember what channels they
're in. | [12:37] |
| vcs | tooth: i would like to see you try when you are on 20 different networks
lol | [12:37] |
| mike-burns | For example, weechat updates have things like that bar showing where you stopped reading. | [12:37] |
| tooth | I fully understand that my solution is a solution for me only, which is to cutdown on networks if I can't remember them. | [12:38] |
| jpalmer | vcs: I use irssi on multiple networks. I see which server and channel I'm in, for each window. | [12:38] |
| tooth | mike-burns, irssi has a trackbar. | [12:38] |
| vcs | jpalmer: its hard to remember where to switch to
in a timely manner clients like irssi do not scale well | [12:38] |
| tooth | no, they don't | [12:39] |
| jpalmer | vcs: /window list doesn't work for you? | [12:39] |
| tooth | i've heard crazy people exist which maintain upwards of 40 channels with irssi | [12:39] |
| vcs | haha
im not insane irssi was great for < 10 channels but i no longer wish to subject myself to that | [12:39] |
| mike-burns | weechat also has split screens. | [12:40] |
| vcs | being on tons of networks / channels | [12:40] |
| jpalmer | *shrug* to each his own, I guess. I use irssi for well over 10 channel. not quite 40. and have *no* problems with it. | [12:40] |
| mike-burns | irssi isn't bad. | [12:40] |
| vcs | irssi is great, i just think it does not have what it takes
to scale well | [12:40] |
| tooth | it can handle it. just not as gracefully | [12:41] |
| vcs | this is one of the few times where i prefer GUI over cli | [12:41] |
| tooth | really, not a problem for most people
I actually like not having any sidebars. | [12:41] |
| jdoe | tooth: or want a userlist without /names
haha. | [12:42] |
| vcs | also, i dont miss the ocasional lag i get running it remotely
xchat is nice, no bloat, and everything i want | [12:42] |
| tooth | yeah. i don't that. | [12:43] |
| vcs | has python, perl, and tcl | [12:43] |
| jdoe | split screens would be nice, although I wonder if it works as badly as screen's split screen sdo. | [12:43] |
| vcs | irssi only has perl /me cringes | [12:43] |
| tooth | I figure if there are more people than can be shown on the side without scrolling, than I'm not going to care anyway | [12:43] |
| jdoe | screen's vertical splitting sucks :/ | [12:43] |
| vcs | screen sucks in general
i rather use multiple logins | [12:43] |
| mike-burns | weechat has Ruby, Python, and a few other languages I know. | [12:44] |
| vcs | weechat is good | [12:45] |
| jdoe | vcs: to each their own. I'd rather have one local window open per remote host. | [12:47] |
| vcs | jdoe: so would i until i have to break out screens highly unintuitive scrollback buffer | [12:47] |
| tooth | yeah on that note, i'm glad multiple options exist. | [12:48] |
| vcs | Tabbed terminals
is what i like keeps it in one window but gives me the option of moving them around on the fly not at the mercy of doing man screen | [12:48] |
| jdoe | tooth: NO, MY WAY IS THE BEST WAY. | [12:52] |
| tooth | tooth sits corrected. | [12:54] |
| mike-burns | Multiple options is perfect. | [12:58] |
| tooth | anyway. the little detail that sold me on irssi, was that I was able to configure my date/time format to be different in the window than what is logged to disk. | [12:59] |
| mike-burns | Heh.
The thing that sold me on weechat was splits and things like Alt-a and Alt-u, plus Ctrl-r. | [13:00] |
| tooth | this was, of course, many years ago now. | [13:01] |
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| Tadaka | does anyone have any gotchas to be aware of when reinstalling the OS on a VPS via console? getting ready to blow mine away soon. | [13:30] |
| nesta | Tadaka: what OS? | [13:30] |
| Tadaka | going to move from ubuntu to freebsd8.1 | [13:31] |
| nesta | ah very good. well just follow the HandBook
:) | [13:32] |
| Tadaka | ok, that's all I was wondering. :) | [13:32] |
| tooth | openbsd is the only gotcha, isn't it ? | [13:32] |
| nesta | it's pretty straight forward
tooth: OpenBSD has it's issues :P | [13:32] |
| Tadaka | just wanted to be ready for any possible surprises. | [13:32] |
| nesta | FreeBSD is, generally, pretty smooth going. | [13:33] |
| Tadaka | I've done freebsd a number of times, but this will be the first install on arpnetworks | [13:33] |
| mike-burns | ARPnetworks was basically made for FreeBSD. | [13:33] |
| Tadaka | gotta love that
I decided to give jaunty a try when I ordered my vps and regretted it almost immediately | [13:33] |
| mike-burns | Common reaction. | [13:34] |
| Tadaka | heh
just need the iso added to my system and Ill get that nasty ubuntu system off your network. :P thanks for the confirmation folks | [13:34] |
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| dxtr | 2141 < tooth> i've heard crazy people exist which maintain upwards of 40 channels with irssi <- I'm one of those :) | [13:57] |
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| jdoe | mike-burns: I'm curious, how are vertical splits with wee-chat? they're super slow in screen, but I assumed that's because terminals aren't really optimized for scrolling half the screen up :/ | [14:06] |
| RandalSchwartz | RandalSchwartz waves
(from near the LHC!) | [14:13] |
| jazz57 | LHC! That's fantastic. | [14:14] |
| tooth | Just down the street from me.
(on a galactic scale, anyway) | [14:14] |
| RandalSchwartz | well - literaelly only a few miles from me right now
toured it yesterday and today | [14:15] |
| tooth | COOL | [14:16] |
| RandalSchwartz | would have gotten to go into the tube, but the experiment is live
so no chace chance | [14:16] |
| tooth | awww. so close. | [14:16] |
| jazz57 | Wouldn't want a magnet quench while you're down there. | [14:17] |
| dxtr | RandalSchwartz: LHC is a local hockey club here :D | [14:19] |
| jazz57 | So it's not *the* LHC | [14:20] |
| RandalSchwartz | heh. it's *the* LHC for most of the world | [14:21] |
| jazz57 | I guess it depends on whether you're into sports or particle physics.
Has anyone figured out how to get the jitter down on NTP? No matter what I try it's always around 20ms. | [14:23] |
| ww | jazz57: jitter: 0.011383 s | [14:27] |
| jazz57 | On my Xen VPS jitter is less than 1ms.
I'm not sure if that's b/c of Xen or the OS. ww: Is that on FreeBSD? | [14:27] |
| ww | jazz57: yes | [14:31] |
| jazz57 | That's a little better than what I'm getting. Any special configs?
I think Xen has a virtualized clock. | [14:31] |
| ww | just a hand-picked set of peers http://pastebin.ca/1973687
ww is surprised ntp is such a popular topic on #arpnetworks these days | [14:34] |
| jpalmer | ww: same | [14:35] |
| jazz57 | I'm kind of a time nut.
I used to run a FreeBSD box with a GPS attached to the serial port. Worked amazingly well with just a cheap automotive unit too. | [14:35] |
| ww | i guess it wouldn't be the worst idea for arp to put up a couple of ntp servers for local use... keep the load off of the stratum 1s | [14:37] |
| jpalmer | if anyone at arp is using stratum 1's, they should be shot. | [14:38] |
| jazz57 | I doubt that would fix the jitter problem though. | [14:38] |
| jpalmer | well, except for specific reasons ;) and with consent. | [14:38] |
| jazz57 | Some servers are listed as public, go ahead and use, no notify necessary | [14:38] |
| ww | jpalmer: everything in that list is a part of the ntp.org pool and open access | [14:39] |
| jpalmer | sure. but, unless you have a specific need for your time to be *that* dead-on, stratum 2 or stratum 3 are prefereable. leave the stratum 1's for those who actually *need* it. | [14:39] |
| ww | when i made the list, i looked for hosts that were close in terms of network topology | [14:40] |
| jpalmer | ww: well, pool.ntp.org is a special case. if there are stratum 1's in there, great. I meant more about people specifically hunting stratum 1 peers | [14:40] |
| ww | ... didn't actually pay attention to stratum.
... they all happen to be 1 though | [14:40] |
| tooth | I just set mine to us.pool. | [14:42] |
| jazz57 | ww: Are your round trip times longer than your pings?
Err, I mean jitter. | [14:42] |
| ww | but i agree in general... that's why it would be nice to have a local ntp server or two... | [14:42] |
| jpalmer | jpalmer is perfectly happy with {0,1,2,3}.pool.ntp.org | [14:42] |
| ww | i'd happily open up river.styx.org if there were interest | [14:43] |
| tooth | cute domain name | [14:43] |
| jazz57 | I would love to see a local GPS clock, though I think there is something limiting the precision in our setup. | [14:43] |
| tooth | does charon@styx.org exist? | [14:43] |
| ww | charon.styx.org used to | [14:44] |
| jpalmer | ww: jazz57 GPS clock is no more accurate than pool.ntp.org. the only place where GPS timing makes more sense, is when there is no internet connectivity for a remote site. | [14:44] |
| ww | on rtt, ping with ~600 byte packets are about the same as jitter | [14:45] |
| jpalmer | well, i won't say "no more accurate" but not substantially more accurate. | [14:45] |
| jazz57 | If it was on the local net, the delay and jitter would be much lower. When I ran my GPS server on the LAN, my other server immediately improved its performance.
But there must be something about the FreeBSD/ARP setup that is introducing quite a bit of jitter. My Xen setup is an oder of magnitude more accurate for some reason. | [14:45] |
| ww | stability: 0.000 ppm | [14:50] |
| jazz57 | I've got the same, but my best peer shows a jitter of 15 ms, whereas on Xen it's 0.056ms. Amazing. | [14:51] |
| jdoe | RandalSchwartz: you should go into the tube anyway. Statistically, I'm sure you'll be fine...
jazz57: if you're using the ntp pool, don't worry about it. Your client will kick out useless peers. | [14:52] |
| jazz57 | jdoe: Problem is not the peer, though. They're *all* around 15-20ms.
I mean, that's not bad...I don't really *need* any more accuracy. I'm just wondering why its relatively higher. Seems more a Windows box than Unix. ;-) | [14:53] |
| ww | could be difference you see with xen is hypervisor vs. emulator/
? | [14:55] |
| jazz57 | ww: That what I'm thinking.
I just wish someone knew what was going on. More of a curiosity than a need. I think the pll loop will stay synched up to about 128ms, so no worries. | [14:55] |
| mike-burns | jdoe: I've noticed no speed issues with vertical splits in weechat. | [14:57] |
| jdoe | hmm... maybe I'll give it another shot. To clarify I mean text scrolling speed not... I dunno, general app speed :) | [14:59] |
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| nuke- | evening
cana nyone help me out on this - > znc.cpp:2069: fatal error: error writing to /tmp/ccc771ui.s: No space left on device | [15:00] |
| mike-burns | I just make a vertical split to try iy.
t There is a tiny bit of lag. But it's hard to say if it's because of the split. Oh when I un-fullscreened my window the lag disappeared. | [15:01] |
| *** | schmir has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection) | [15:02] |
| nuke- | mike-burns can u give me hand? | [15:06] |
| dxtr | nuke-: read the error message? | [15:09] |
| nuke- | yes but i cant dump /tmp can i?
earse/dump | [15:10] |
| *** | jazz57 has left | [15:15] |
| nuke- | dxtr? | [15:17] |
| dxtr | Uhm, you're out of space on /tmp. You'll have to make it larger. | [15:18] |
| nuke- | but i never got this before, theres no way of dumping it?
or erase whats there? cause its /tmp seems empty | [15:19] |
| dxtr | df -h
Or du -hs /tmp | [15:20] |
| nuke- | first gives me this
Filesystem Size Used Avail Use% Mounted on tmpfs 124M 0 124M 0% /lib/init/rw udev 10M 572K 9.5M 6% /dev tmpfs 124M 0 124M 0% /dev/shm overflow 1.0M 0 1.0M 0% /tmp second this du -hs /tmp | [15:21] |
| dxtr | err | [15:22] |
| nuke- | 0 /tmp | [15:22] |
| dxtr | Your /tmp is 1MB big | [15:23] |
| jdoe | mike-burns: yeah... that's what I was expecting. My understanding is it's not a screen/weechat/whatever-specific issue, the terminal has shortcuts for scrolling the entire window, just not parts of it. | [15:23] |
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| richardq | hello garry | [15:54] |
| *** | richardq has left | [15:55] |
| toddf | for you time nazzi's .. until vmt(4) or a similar driver exists for kvm guests, where the guest can sync its time with the host, and the host uses accurate ntp timing, running ntp on a kvm system is only going to get you so much accuracy .. ;-) | [16:05] |
| dxtr | toddf: One of the things I like with kvm is that the guests can set their own time
I had another VPS on some-popular-virtualization-technology-I-don't-remember-the-name-of that didn't let me set the time And the host was so horribly out of sync it was disgusting | [16:15] |
| toddf | dxtr: it is not virtualization if you don't have root and can set your time
there are some sites which claim to be virtualization but infact are glorified chroot() env's | [16:22] |
| dxtr | toddf: It's really popular among vps companies | [16:23] |
| toddf | it would be popular to run something that doesn't require resources of a true vps
i.e. it's more efficient and cost effective if you want to run linux .. most of us here don't | [16:23] |
| dxtr | OpenVZ!
That's it "It is similar to FreeBSD Jails and Solaris Zones." Bleh | [16:24] |
| toddf | like I said, glorified chroot | [16:25] |
| dxtr | Yeah
Didn't know that :P I just knew it ucks sucks* | [16:26] |
| jdoe | toddf: I was going to say, it's largely a moot point... if you're that sensitive to jitter you shouldn't be on a vps :P | [16:32] |
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| bharatak | /// | [18:04] |
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| fink | RandalSchwartz: what DNS server do you use?
up_the_irons: you had recommended a DNS server months ago, you said it was the hottest new thing? | [20:17] |
| jpalmer | fink: for backup, or hosting your own zone? or a recursive server? | [20:19] |
| fink | hosting | [20:19] |
| jpalmer | (ie, what are you looking to do)
ok, dns.he.net free, and solid. | [20:19] |
| fink | thanks | [20:20] |
| jpalmer | sure
btw: it'll also work as a slave, if you want to run your own DNS master. | [20:20] |
| fink | jpalmer: atm i'm using tinydns | [20:29] |
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| jpalmer | never used it. if it does BIND style zone transfers, he.net servers should be able to slave the zone. | [20:51] |
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