[04:11] *** Ehtyar has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection) [04:15] *** Ehtyar has joined #arpnetworks [04:42] *** _Ehtyar has joined #arpnetworks [04:47] *** _Ehtyar has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection) [04:47] *** _Ehtyar has joined #arpnetworks [04:59] *** Ehtyar has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection) [05:21] RandalSchwartz: [05:21] What's the difference between shell, eshell and terminal in emacs? [05:22] Wich one should I use? And isn't it possible to somehow be able use curses stuff in the emacs terminal? [06:04] *** schmir has joined #arpnetworks [06:15] *** schmir has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) [06:16] dxtr? [06:19] RandalSchwartz: I've done some research now and found Multiterm [06:19] But it still kind of sucks. The cursor travels over the entire screen, the output isn't correct in ncurses apps and stuff [06:19] shell = a real /bin/sh attached to a pty [06:20] eshell = faked shell, simulated as much as possible with emacs native ops [06:20] terminal = a real /bin/sh, but with terminal mode emulation [06:20] I don't need an emacs window handle full-screen stuff [06:20] I run emacs inside screen [06:20] so when I need full-screen stuff, I pop into a new screen [06:21] that does a far better job than emacs does [06:21] Darn :) [06:21] I was hoping Xemacs could do it for me [06:21] I don't use Xemacs either [06:21] or emacs in X11 mode [06:22] I *do* use emacs in Cocoa mode though [06:22] To be fair it's emacs in X11 mode :P [06:22] I thought they were the same [06:22] "they"? [06:22] which two? [06:22] Xemacs != emacs [06:22] two different source trees [06:22] with different philosophies [06:22] lots of sharing, but lots of separation [06:23] Xemacs forked from emacs when RMS woudln't allow something back in the day [06:23] and remains forked since [06:23] I'm sure there's a story on that in wikip :) [06:23] Oh, cool [06:24] I didn't know that [06:24] ahh - it was originally a fork in 1990 for Lucid Inc [06:24] but.. but.. So Emacs won't do the job for me? :) [06:24] what job? [06:24] you asked about features, not goals [06:25] I have no idea what you're trying to accomplish [06:25] and what your constraints are [06:26] Well, I want to replace (u)xterm [06:26] and I don't know what that is. :) [06:26] xterm? [06:26] are you talking about x11 xterm? [06:26] Yeah [06:26] Yeah, I don't use those. [06:27] What are you using :D [06:27] Terminal.app client side. A window inside screen on the server side [06:27] and one of those windows is my emacs [06:27] I also use cocoa emacs on clientside [06:27] Mkay [06:27] occasionaly I also use terminal emac inside Terminal.app on client side :) [06:27] mostly when I need a root emacs [06:28] "sudo emacs -Q" [06:28] I found two awesome things the other day [06:28] emacsclient \o [06:28] yeah... I have that running [06:28] I forgot the second thing :/ [06:28] I also set VISUAL to "emacsclient" for subshells [06:29] (setenv "EDITOR" "/usr/local/bin/emacsclient") (setenv "PAGER" "/bin/cat") (server-start) [06:29] that way... shell-mode doesn't try to "page" a doc [06:29] since I can do that with scrolling anyway [06:29] Oh cool [06:30] and if it ever needs to edit something (crontab -e), a separate window will pop up in my current editor [06:32] this has been working well for me. I don't have X11 clients installed on my servers [06:32] just "screen emacs" launched about once a month [06:32] Why aren't you using tmux? :) [06:33] Terminal.app -> ssh -> screen -> emacs -> irc.el for this window for example [06:33] I looked at tmux... I'd have to completely relearn things [06:33] and I didn't see any way to do the most common thing I do. I forgot what it is at the moment. [06:33] *** heavysixer has joined #arpnetworks [06:33] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o heavysixer [06:33] screen works fine for now [06:35] Hehe, righ [06:35] right* [06:36] RandalSchwartz: You made me teach my girlfriend rsync [06:36] How does that feel? [06:37] :) [06:37] she's downloading stuff from me all the time now :/ [06:37] Abusing my connection [06:38] And when using emacsclient; what is the "correct" way to save-and-kill the buffers? I use C-x C-s C-x C-k now [06:40] heh [06:40] be sure you learn about "--filter='. -'" [06:40] include/exclude in every possible combination [06:41] ignore in source, ignore in dest, copy, etc [06:45] Hmm, right [06:45] I used to have a complex series of --include and --exclude, to decide what to mirror from my server to my laptop [06:46] now it's much easier to read and edit as just "+" and "-" [06:46] rsync $FLAGS --filter='. -' $SRC $DST < + foo [06:46] + bar [06:46] - bar/bletch [06:46] EOF [06:47] Oh that's cool [06:48] Yeah... I can't believe I didn't see that before [06:48] oh yeah, first line "- *~" [06:48] no point in transferring emacs backups :) [06:52] as for emacs client, I'm doing it within a subshell [06:52] so it pops up a window in my current emacs [06:53] I save that ^X ^S then stop recurisive edit... I forget that char sequence but my fingers know [06:53] ahh.. just tryied it... ^X # [06:54] so ^X ^S ^X # [06:54] it actually reminds me with the message line :) [07:03] :D [07:03] Fuck yeah! mpc.el <3 [07:31] what's mpc.el? [07:31] It controls mpd from emacs [07:31] what's mpd? [07:31] music player daemon : [07:31] :) [07:31] ahh. I have itunes :) [07:32] I think it's too much bloat in iTunes [07:32] well - for just a music player, yes [07:32] but it also handles all my iphone sync [07:32] and app installation [07:32] That's true [07:32] I haven't got an iphone so :P [07:33] and now itunes U :) [07:33] I think I'll be going to the store in a couple of minutes [08:58] *** schmir has joined #arpnetworks [09:05] *** schmir has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) [10:09] *** js245646267 has joined #arpnetworks [10:56] *** js245646267 has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) [10:56] *** js245646267 has joined #arpnetworks [11:44] toddf: on vmware it's done through the guest utilities [11:44] wow [11:44] that was WAY delayed :P [11:44] sorry :P [11:51] jdoe: heh guest utilities, well thats the typical userland stuff, vmt(4) on OpenBSD is a kernel driver to use the publically documented interface to vmware as used by the guest utilities [11:56] the part I'm thinking of is kernelspace on linux/fbsd as well. [11:56] I'm not sure if it semi-exposes the hardware clock or how it works exactly, I never really paid it much mind. [12:04] *** ziyourenxiang has joined #arpnetworks [12:20] *** fink_ has joined #arpnetworks [12:38] *** heavysixer has quit IRC (Quit: heavysixer) [12:44] Oh hey guys [12:44] My new domain registrar is retarded [12:45] who is your new registrar? [12:46] namecheap.com [12:48] ah [12:48] I've been using GoDaddy since like..2002/2003 [12:48] I just switched from them :P [12:49] any reasons why? [12:50] Well, I hated their interface, that they constantly spammed me with useless crap and I've heard so much bad about them [12:51] ah [12:51] well, I've heard people complain, but my personal experience with them has always been great. [12:51] Plus their "hide-my-stuff-from-whois" was a little too expensive [12:53] BUT THEY DON'T SUPPORT IPV6 [12:53] HOW CAN THEY NOT SUPPORT IPV6!? [12:53] Namecheap.com that is [12:53] I'll have to mail their developer(s) so he/them can add it manuallly [12:53] manually [12:55] Kim Lidstrom: Oh well, thanks for you time [12:55] Alexander K.: Not at all. It was a pleasure to help you. [13:12] I don't think the registrar has anything to do with ipv6.. [13:13] My IPv6 stuff is handled with my VPSes. [13:21] some DNS registrars provide DNS service, i.e., their DNS servers can serve your zones/domains authoritatively. [13:43] use twit.hover.com [13:43] I bet *they* support v6 [13:46] Hmm. can't tell from website. just mailed them. [15:30] *** nerdd has joined #arpnetworks [15:31] *** nerdd_ has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) [15:53] *** synack- has quit IRC (Quit: leaving) [16:35] *** hsbt has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) [16:48] *** hsbt has joined #arpnetworks [17:05] *** RandalSchwartz has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection) [17:28] *** heavysixer has joined #arpnetworks [17:28] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o heavysixer [17:35] *** fink_ has quit IRC (Quit: fink_) [17:47] *** _Ehtyar has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection) [17:49] *** Ehtyar has joined #arpnetworks [17:59] *** ziyourenxiang has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) [18:56] *** RandalSchwartz has joined #arpnetworks [19:32] *** fink_ has joined #arpnetworks [20:37] up_the_irons - by the way, neil is here next to me, and still appreciates his ARP boxen [21:15] dxtr: btw, if you switch to namecheap's DNS v2 system for your domain(s), you can add AAAA records, and they do seem to work [21:16] dxtr: only downside is that namecheap's DNS servers are *not* available over IPv6 [21:17] dxtr: which may or may not be a big deal, but I chose to go with dns.he.net for free dns [21:19] dxtr: if you want a registrar with full IPv6 support, I found out recently that name.com atleast supports AAAA records and queries over IPv6.. I think they support IPv6 "glue", but I'm not sure [21:23] I should point out that http://dns.he.net does have full IPv6 support... they just don't have some of the extra goodies yet, like web redirects [21:25] if you need IPv6 "glue" with namecheap, I recently read that you would need to contact them to have them do it for you manually [21:25] they said they are working on it, but that thread hadn't been updated in a few months IIRC [21:26] working on having the IPv6 glue feature available in the web interface, that is [21:28] also, FWIW, I believe I read that name.com is planning to have an "Enable DNSSEC" button in their web GUI eventually [21:29] supposed to make it easy to switch on DNSSEC [21:35] here are the sources actually: [21:35] http://community.namecheap.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=947&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&start=10 [21:35] http://community.namecheap.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=2560&p=11130#p11130 [21:36] http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/07/13/name_dot_com_does_ipv6_and_dnssec/ [22:06] *** up_the_irons has quit IRC (Read error: Operation timed out) [22:06] *** phlux has quit IRC (Read error: Operation timed out) [22:06] *** dxtr has quit IRC (Read error: Operation timed out) [22:06] *** Husky has quit IRC (Read error: Operation timed out) [22:06] *** mike-burns has quit IRC (Read error: Operation timed out) [22:06] *** nesta has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) [22:07] *** CESSMASTER has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer) [22:07] *** synack- has joined #arpnetworks [22:07] *** awyeah has quit IRC (Read error: Operation timed out) [22:07] *** mhoran has quit IRC (Read error: Operation timed out) [22:07] *** LucasWilcox has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer) [22:07] *** BarberRonny has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer) [22:07] anybody else having network issues? [22:07] *** LucasWilcox has joined #arpnetworks [22:08] *** CESSMASTER has joined #arpnetworks [22:08] *** awyeah has joined #arpnetworks [22:08] *** phlux has joined #arpnetworks [22:08] *** BarberRonny has joined #arpnetworks [22:08] *** Lefty has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) [22:08] *** Lefty_ has joined #arpnetworks [22:08] *** RandalSchwartz has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) [22:08] *** cmeiklejohn has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) [22:08] *** up_the_irons has joined #arpnetworks [22:08] *** mick_laptop has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) [22:08] *** mike-burns has joined #arpnetworks [22:08] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o mike-burns [22:08] *** nesta has joined #arpnetworks [22:08] *** cmeiklejohn has joined #arpnetworks [22:08] *** phlux is now known as Guest41948 [22:08] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o up_the_irons [22:08] *** mick_laptop has joined #arpnetworks [22:09] wow, wonder what that was [22:09] my he.net didn't go down [22:09] yea my vps connection just crapped itself for a min [22:10] +1 [22:10] but i ddnt lose my irssi connection [22:10] very odd [22:10] Any2 IX just rebooted their switch, I think [22:10] * IPv6Freely slaps them [22:10] i skimmed some emergency maintenance notification, i think it was happening at 10pm pst [22:10] * fink_ laughs heartily at your plebian connection troubles [22:11] *** fink_ has quit IRC (Quit: fink_) [22:11] whats even more odd is that my website (not hosted on my vps) is also having issues at the same time [22:12] *** mhoran has joined #arpnetworks [22:12] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o mhoran [22:12] *** dxtr has joined #arpnetworks [22:13] IPv6Freely: is it hosted "nearby" ? [22:13] yeah, depends on its location too and from where you were monitoring it [22:13] ummmmm i honestly have no idea [22:13] *** coil_ has joined #arpnetworks [22:14] *** amdprophet has joined #arpnetworks [22:15] hey up_the_irons, was there any network switchovers a second ago? our monitoring solution went crazy for all of our servers [22:15] just trying to find out if it was the monitor failing or not [22:15] ACTIVO INC is who ARIN says owns the IP I'm on. [22:16] up_the_irons: might wanna put a "yes there was a network issue a few mins ago" in the topic ;) [22:19] *** nakano is now known as nakano_ [22:19] *** nakano_ is now known as nakano [22:20] amdprophet: heh, yeah, Any2 IX rebooted their switch [22:21] so all my peers went down [22:25] hey, who is it here that runs 4or6.com? [22:25] in any case, I've added 4 more EU VPS providers to the list and one more US provider :o [22:26] speaking of which, does arp have any plans to move into EU? [22:27] mattx86: not sure if the owner of 4or6.com hangs out in here. no plans on EU right now; there's enough to do just in LA :) [22:27] ah, that's cool :) [22:28] see, I have a project I'm interested in doing, and I'm planning on getting a vps from arp and one in EU [22:28] so if you guys decide to go there, I'd be happy to get the service from you there as well [22:36] *** mattx86|2 has joined #arpnetworks [22:37] up_the_irons: ah nice lol, glad to see that our monitoring software works well :p [22:38] by the time I got the email saying it was down it was already back up, your network is solid [22:39] much much better than vpslink [22:39] *** mattx86 has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) [22:40] *** mattx86|2 is now known as mattx86 [22:41] amdprophet: didn't vpslink basically go down the tubes after it was sold? [22:41] who bought them? spry? [22:41] rather, it got worse [22:41] nah, someone else i thought... i thought spry was the original owner [22:41] ah maybe [22:42] we were only on them when they were owned by spry [22:42] they had 2 or 3 power outages during the time we were with them [22:42] ah, that's not good [22:42] their hard disk system was horrible too, we were always being slowed down by other people on the same dom0 as us [22:43] 180 minutes to boot our server [22:43] after the power outage [22:44] amdprophet: ah, sweet [22:44] that's when we switched to arp :P [22:44] 180 minutes? wowzers [22:45] yup lol [22:45] and we've tried a few other providers for new projects, like gigenet cloud [22:45] moved that project from them to arp [22:46] what was wrong with gigenet cloud? i see their advertising slamming VPS's ;) [22:46] price for performance can't even compare to what you offer [22:46] not to mention they were slapping hidden charges on to us [22:57] ouch [22:57] i c [22:59] *** synack- has quit IRC (Quit: Lost terminal) [23:09] gigenet cloud seemed awesome, but if you get down to the nitty gritty, apparently bandwidth and/or disk isn't included in the base price of $10/mo [23:09] plus, no ipv6 support [23:09] and they may be paravirtual-only... cant remember [23:12] it'd be nice if someone came along with a cloud service that offered: ipv6, full hardware virtualization, live migrations possible, and you're only billed for the bandwidth and diskspace used (if that diskspace part is feasible) [23:13] yea that would be neat [23:13] guaranteed ram and plenty of cpu to go around [23:13] yeah [23:14] can filesystems dynamically shrink/grow yet? [23:14] or that something for the future of cloud systems [23:14] heh [23:15] I think some of them can [23:15] wouldn't that be awesome? [23:15] it would [23:15] you set the the threshold for available space, and it grows with you [23:15] in turn, you get billed for how much is allocated to you [23:16] I think it would be neat if you could get billed for how much you use [23:16] ext3 can be grown/shrunk, but ufs2 can only be grown. one of the reasons cloud providers can't offer the *BSDs [23:16] true, but honestly, how well would that work out [23:17] if it's allocated, it's allocated [23:18] ah, so this is technically do-able, perhaps? :) [23:18] i still fundamentally believe the cloud audience and my vps audience is different. cloud people are looking for transient VMs ("I need 100 VMs for this 4 day number crunch") and my VPS audience is looking for permanent VMs ("My mail server needs to be up always") [23:19] up_the_irons: right, unfortunately, that's what I came to realize.. [23:19] it's too bad there's not a compromise [23:19] with ipv6 support i might add :) [23:19] perhaps it is hard to do; it would be hard for me to do it, that's why i don't ;) [23:20] so instead of paying for all this bandwidth and all this disk space every month, we're only billed for what's used [23:20] ah [23:21] i cant believe that no one has such a service yet.. but hopefully its not too much further away [23:22] with that said, you do have some awesome prices for a vps :) [23:22] mattx86: the bandwidth part of that is doable, much harder on the disk [23:22] right [23:23] I fear that if/when that comes around, it will almost surely be an extra layer, similar to doing xen PV; you have to modify the distro until it becomes 'standard' [23:23] yeah [23:24] the kernel anyways [23:24] oh well, time will tell [23:42] amdprophet: I feel as though I came off as being rude to you a moment ago; I apologize if that's how it sounded [23:43] what? no not at all [23:43] oh ok :) [23:43] I've been busy playing games :p [23:43] ah :) [23:43] carry on :) [23:52] *** synack- has joined #arpnetworks