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| Who | What | When |
|---|---|---|
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| dxtr | RandalSchwartz:
What's the difference between shell, eshell and terminal in emacs? Wich one should I use? And isn't it possible to somehow be able use curses stuff in the emacs terminal? | [05:21] |
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| RandalSchwartz | dxtr? | [06:16] |
| dxtr | RandalSchwartz: I've done some research now and found Multiterm
But it still kind of sucks. The cursor travels over the entire screen, the output isn't correct in ncurses apps and stuff | [06:19] |
| RandalSchwartz | shell = a real /bin/sh attached to a pty
eshell = faked shell, simulated as much as possible with emacs native ops terminal = a real /bin/sh, but with terminal mode emulation I don't need an emacs window handle full-screen stuff I run emacs inside screen so when I need full-screen stuff, I pop into a new screen that does a far better job than emacs does | [06:19] |
| dxtr | Darn :)
I was hoping Xemacs could do it for me | [06:21] |
| RandalSchwartz | I don't use Xemacs either
or emacs in X11 mode I *do* use emacs in Cocoa mode though | [06:21] |
| dxtr | To be fair it's emacs in X11 mode :P
I thought they were the same | [06:22] |
| RandalSchwartz | "they"?
which two? Xemacs != emacs two different source trees with different philosophies lots of sharing, but lots of separation Xemacs forked from emacs when RMS woudln't allow something back in the day and remains forked since I'm sure there's a story on that in wikip :) | [06:22] |
| dxtr | Oh, cool
I didn't know that | [06:23] |
| RandalSchwartz | ahh - it was originally a fork in 1990 for Lucid Inc | [06:24] |
| dxtr | but.. but.. So Emacs won't do the job for me? :) | [06:24] |
| RandalSchwartz | what job?
you asked about features, not goals I have no idea what you're trying to accomplish and what your constraints are | [06:24] |
| dxtr | Well, I want to replace (u)xterm | [06:26] |
| RandalSchwartz | and I don't know what that is. :) | [06:26] |
| dxtr | xterm? | [06:26] |
| RandalSchwartz | are you talking about x11 xterm? | [06:26] |
| dxtr | Yeah | [06:26] |
| RandalSchwartz | Yeah, I don't use those. | [06:26] |
| dxtr | What are you using :D | [06:27] |
| RandalSchwartz | Terminal.app client side. A window inside screen on the server side
and one of those windows is my emacs I also use cocoa emacs on clientside | [06:27] |
| dxtr | Mkay | [06:27] |
| RandalSchwartz | occasionaly I also use terminal emac inside Terminal.app on client side :)
mostly when I need a root emacs "sudo emacs -Q" | [06:27] |
| dxtr | I found two awesome things the other day
emacsclient o | [06:28] |
| RandalSchwartz | yeah... I have that running | [06:28] |
| dxtr | I forgot the second thing :/ | [06:28] |
| RandalSchwartz | I also set VISUAL to "emacsclient" for subshells
(setenv "EDITOR" "/usr/local/bin/emacsclient") (setenv "PAGER" "/bin/cat") (server-start) that way... shell-mode doesn't try to "page" a doc since I can do that with scrolling anyway | [06:28] |
| dxtr | Oh cool | [06:29] |
| RandalSchwartz | and if it ever needs to edit something (crontab -e), a separate window will pop up in my current editor
this has been working well for me. I don't have X11 clients installed on my servers just "screen emacs" launched about once a month | [06:30] |
| dxtr | Why aren't you using tmux? :) | [06:32] |
| RandalSchwartz | Terminal.app -> ssh -> screen -> emacs -> irc.el for this window for example
I looked at tmux... I'd have to completely relearn things and I didn't see any way to do the most common thing I do. I forgot what it is at the moment. | [06:33] |
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| RandalSchwartz | screen works fine for now | [06:33] |
| dxtr | Hehe, righ
right* RandalSchwartz: You made me teach my girlfriend rsync How does that feel? :) she's downloading stuff from me all the time now :/ Abusing my connection And when using emacsclient; what is the "correct" way to save-and-kill the buffers? I use C-x C-s C-x C-k now | [06:35] |
| RandalSchwartz | heh
be sure you learn about "--filter='. -'" include/exclude in every possible combination ignore in source, ignore in dest, copy, etc | [06:40] |
| dxtr | Hmm, right | [06:45] |
| RandalSchwartz | I used to have a complex series of --include and --exclude, to decide what to mirror from my server to my laptop
now it's much easier to read and edit as just "+" and "-" rsync $FLAGS --filter='. -' $SRC $DST <<EOF + foo + bar - bar/bletch EOF | [06:45] |
| dxtr | Oh that's cool | [06:47] |
| RandalSchwartz | Yeah... I can't believe I didn't see that before
oh yeah, first line "- *~" no point in transferring emacs backups :) as for emacs client, I'm doing it within a subshell so it pops up a window in my current emacs I save that ^X ^S then stop recurisive edit... I forget that char sequence but my fingers know ahh.. just tryied it... ^X # so ^X ^S ^X # it actually reminds me with the message line :) | [06:48] |
| dxtr | :D
Fuck yeah! mpc.el <3 | [07:03] |
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| RandalSchwartz | what's mpc.el? | [07:31] |
| dxtr | It controls mpd from emacs | [07:31] |
| RandalSchwartz | what's mpd? | [07:31] |
| dxtr | music player daemon :
:) | [07:31] |
| RandalSchwartz | ahh. I have itunes :) | [07:31] |
| dxtr | I think it's too much bloat in iTunes | [07:32] |
| RandalSchwartz | well - for just a music player, yes
but it also handles all my iphone sync and app installation | [07:32] |
| dxtr | That's true
I haven't got an iphone so :P | [07:32] |
| RandalSchwartz | and now itunes U :) | [07:33] |
| dxtr | I think I'll be going to the store in a couple of minutes | [07:33] |
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| jdoe | toddf: on vmware it's done through the guest utilities
wow that was WAY delayed :P sorry :P | [11:44] |
| toddf | jdoe: heh guest utilities, well thats the typical userland stuff, vmt(4) on OpenBSD is a kernel driver to use the publically documented interface to vmware as used by the guest utilities | [11:51] |
| jdoe | the part I'm thinking of is kernelspace on linux/fbsd as well.
I'm not sure if it semi-exposes the hardware clock or how it works exactly, I never really paid it much mind. | [11:56] |
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| dxtr | Oh hey guys
My new domain registrar is retarded | [12:44] |
| phlux | who is your new registrar? | [12:45] |
| dxtr | namecheap.com | [12:46] |
| phlux | ah
I've been using GoDaddy since like..2002/2003 | [12:48] |
| dxtr | I just switched from them :P | [12:48] |
| phlux | any reasons why? | [12:49] |
| dxtr | Well, I hated their interface, that they constantly spammed me with useless crap and I've heard so much bad about them | [12:50] |
| phlux | ah
well, I've heard people complain, but my personal experience with them has always been great. | [12:51] |
| dxtr | Plus their "hide-my-stuff-from-whois" was a little too expensive
BUT THEY DON'T SUPPORT IPV6 HOW CAN THEY NOT SUPPORT IPV6!? Namecheap.com that is I'll have to mail their developer(s) so he/them can add it manuallly manually Kim Lidstrom: Oh well, thanks for you time Alexander K.: Not at all. It was a pleasure to help you. | [12:51] |
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| phlux | I don't think the registrar has anything to do with ipv6..
My IPv6 stuff is handled with my VPSes. | [13:12] |
| ziyourenxiang | some DNS registrars provide DNS service, i.e., their DNS servers can serve your zones/domains authoritatively. | [13:21] |
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| RandalSchwartz | use twit.hover.com
I bet *they* support v6 Hmm. can't tell from website. just mailed them. | [13:43] |
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| RandalSchwartz | up_the_irons - by the way, neil is here next to me, and still appreciates his ARP boxen | [20:37] |
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| mattx86 | dxtr: btw, if you switch to namecheap's DNS v2 system for your domain(s), you can add AAAA records, and they do seem to work
dxtr: only downside is that namecheap's DNS servers are *not* available over IPv6 dxtr: which may or may not be a big deal, but I chose to go with dns.he.net for free dns dxtr: if you want a registrar with full IPv6 support, I found out recently that name.com atleast supports AAAA records and queries over IPv6.. I think they support IPv6 "glue", but I'm not sure I should point out that http://dns.he.net does have full IPv6 support... they just don't have some of the extra goodies yet, like web redirects if you need IPv6 "glue" with namecheap, I recently read that you would need to contact them to have them do it for you manually they said they are working on it, but that thread hadn't been updated in a few months IIRC working on having the IPv6 glue feature available in the web interface, that is also, FWIW, I believe I read that name.com is planning to have an "Enable DNSSEC" button in their web GUI eventually supposed to make it easy to switch on DNSSEC | [21:15] |
| here are the sources actually:
http://community.namecheap.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=947&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&start=10 http://community.namecheap.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=2560&p=11130#p11130 http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/07/13/name_dot_com_does_ipv6_and_dnssec/ | [21:35] | |
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| synack- | anybody else having network issues? | [22:07] |
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CESSMASTER has joined #arpnetworks awyeah has joined #arpnetworks phlux has joined #arpnetworks BarberRonny has joined #arpnetworks Lefty has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) Lefty_ has joined #arpnetworks RandalSchwartz has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) cmeiklejohn has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) up_the_irons has joined #arpnetworks mick_laptop has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) mike-burns has joined #arpnetworks ChanServ sets mode: +o mike-burns nesta has joined #arpnetworks cmeiklejohn has joined #arpnetworks phlux is now known as Guest41948 ChanServ sets mode: +o up_the_irons mick_laptop has joined #arpnetworks | [22:07] |
| mattx86 | wow, wonder what that was
my he.net didn't go down | [22:09] |
| IPv6Freely | yea my vps connection just crapped itself for a min | [22:09] |
| synack- | +1 | [22:10] |
| IPv6Freely | but i ddnt lose my irssi connection
very odd | [22:10] |
| up_the_irons | Any2 IX just rebooted their switch, I think | [22:10] |
| IPv6Freely | IPv6Freely slaps them | [22:10] |
| up_the_irons | i skimmed some emergency maintenance notification, i think it was happening at 10pm pst | [22:10] |
| fink_ | fink_ laughs heartily at your plebian connection troubles | [22:10] |
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| IPv6Freely | whats even more odd is that my website (not hosted on my vps) is also having issues at the same time | [22:11] |
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| up_the_irons | IPv6Freely: is it hosted "nearby" ? | [22:13] |
| mattx86 | yeah, depends on its location too and from where you were monitoring it | [22:13] |
| IPv6Freely | ummmmm i honestly have no idea | [22:13] |
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| amdprophet | hey up_the_irons, was there any network switchovers a second ago? our monitoring solution went crazy for all of our servers
just trying to find out if it was the monitor failing or not | [22:15] |
| IPv6Freely | ACTIVO INC is who ARIN says owns the IP I'm on.
up_the_irons: might wanna put a "yes there was a network issue a few mins ago" in the topic ;) | [22:15] |
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nakano_ is now known as nakano | [22:19] |
| up_the_irons | amdprophet: heh, yeah, Any2 IX rebooted their switch
so all my peers went down | [22:20] |
| mattx86 | hey, who is it here that runs 4or6.com?
in any case, I've added 4 more EU VPS providers to the list and one more US provider :o speaking of which, does arp have any plans to move into EU? | [22:25] |
| up_the_irons | mattx86: not sure if the owner of 4or6.com hangs out in here. no plans on EU right now; there's enough to do just in LA :) | [22:27] |
| mattx86 | ah, that's cool :)
see, I have a project I'm interested in doing, and I'm planning on getting a vps from arp and one in EU so if you guys decide to go there, I'd be happy to get the service from you there as well | [22:27] |
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| amdprophet | up_the_irons: ah nice lol, glad to see that our monitoring software works well :p
by the time I got the email saying it was down it was already back up, your network is solid much much better than vpslink | [22:37] |
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| mattx86 | amdprophet: didn't vpslink basically go down the tubes after it was sold? | [22:41] |
| amdprophet | who bought them? spry? | [22:41] |
| mattx86 | rather, it got worse
nah, someone else i thought... i thought spry was the original owner | [22:41] |
| amdprophet | ah maybe
we were only on them when they were owned by spry they had 2 or 3 power outages during the time we were with them | [22:41] |
| mattx86 | ah, that's not good | [22:42] |
| amdprophet | their hard disk system was horrible too, we were always being slowed down by other people on the same dom0 as us
180 minutes to boot our server after the power outage | [22:42] |
| up_the_irons | amdprophet: ah, sweet | [22:44] |
| amdprophet | that's when we switched to arp :P | [22:44] |
| up_the_irons | 180 minutes? wowzers | [22:44] |
| amdprophet | yup lol
and we've tried a few other providers for new projects, like gigenet cloud moved that project from them to arp | [22:45] |
| up_the_irons | what was wrong with gigenet cloud? i see their advertising slamming VPS's ;) | [22:46] |
| amdprophet | price for performance can't even compare to what you offer
not to mention they were slapping hidden charges on to us | [22:46] |
| up_the_irons | ouch
i c | [22:57] |
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| mattx86 | gigenet cloud seemed awesome, but if you get down to the nitty gritty, apparently bandwidth and/or disk isn't included in the base price of $10/mo
plus, no ipv6 support and they may be paravirtual-only... cant remember it'd be nice if someone came along with a cloud service that offered: ipv6, full hardware virtualization, live migrations possible, and you're only billed for the bandwidth and diskspace used (if that diskspace part is feasible) | [23:09] |
| amdprophet | yea that would be neat | [23:13] |
| mattx86 | guaranteed ram and plenty of cpu to go around
yeah can filesystems dynamically shrink/grow yet? or that something for the future of cloud systems heh | [23:13] |
| amdprophet | I think some of them can | [23:15] |
| mattx86 | wouldn't that be awesome? | [23:15] |
| amdprophet | it would | [23:15] |
| mattx86 | you set the the threshold for available space, and it grows with you
in turn, you get billed for how much is allocated to you | [23:15] |
| amdprophet | I think it would be neat if you could get billed for how much you use | [23:16] |
| up_the_irons | ext3 can be grown/shrunk, but ufs2 can only be grown. one of the reasons cloud providers can't offer the *BSDs | [23:16] |
| mattx86 | true, but honestly, how well would that work out
if it's allocated, it's allocated ah, so this is technically do-able, perhaps? :) | [23:16] |
| up_the_irons | i still fundamentally believe the cloud audience and my vps audience is different. cloud people are looking for transient VMs ("I need 100 VMs for this 4 day number crunch") and my VPS audience is looking for permanent VMs ("My mail server needs to be up always") | [23:18] |
| mattx86 | up_the_irons: right, unfortunately, that's what I came to realize..
it's too bad there's not a compromise with ipv6 support i might add :) | [23:19] |
| up_the_irons | perhaps it is hard to do; it would be hard for me to do it, that's why i don't ;) | [23:19] |
| mattx86 | so instead of paying for all this bandwidth and all this disk space every month, we're only billed for what's used
ah i cant believe that no one has such a service yet.. but hopefully its not too much further away with that said, you do have some awesome prices for a vps :) | [23:20] |
| up_the_irons | mattx86: the bandwidth part of that is doable, much harder on the disk | [23:22] |
| mattx86 | right
I fear that if/when that comes around, it will almost surely be an extra layer, similar to doing xen PV; you have to modify the distro until it becomes 'standard' | [23:22] |
| up_the_irons | yeah | [23:23] |
| mattx86 | the kernel anyways
oh well, time will tell | [23:24] |
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| amdprophet: I feel as though I came off as being rude to you a moment ago; I apologize if that's how it sounded | [23:42] | |
| amdprophet | what? no not at all | [23:43] |
| mattx86 | oh ok :) | [23:43] |
| amdprophet | I've been busy playing games :p | [23:43] |
| mattx86 | ah :)
carry on :) | [23:43] |
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