[00:16] *** hsbt has quit IRC (Quit: Tiarra 0.1: SIGTERM received; exit) [00:24] *** hsbt has joined #arpnetworks [00:34] *** spits has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) [00:44] *** hsbt has quit IRC (Quit: Tiarra 0.1: SIGTERM received; exit) [00:44] *** hsbt has joined #arpnetworks [01:47] *** schmir has joined #arpnetworks [02:10] *** LucasWil1ox has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer) [02:10] *** LucasWilcox has joined #arpnetworks [02:28] *** schmir has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection) [02:58] *** schmir has joined #arpnetworks [03:55] *** amdprophet has quit IRC (*.net *.split) [03:58] *** amdprophet has joined #arpnetworks [03:59] *** dxtr has quit IRC (Quit: I'm outta here) [04:00] *** dxtr has joined #arpnetworks [04:00] *** dxtr has quit IRC (Changing host) [04:00] *** dxtr has joined #arpnetworks [04:01] *** amdprophet has quit IRC (*.net *.split) [05:32] *** ziyourenxiang has joined #arpnetworks [06:56] *** hsbt has quit IRC (Quit: Tiarra 0.1: SIGTERM received; exit) [06:56] *** hsbt has joined #arpnetworks [07:43] *** schmir has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection) [07:44] *** heavysixer has joined #arpnetworks [07:44] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o heavysixer [08:37] *** sentabi has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) [08:42] *** ziyourenxiang has quit IRC (Quit: ziyourenxiang) [08:44] *** sentabi has joined #arpnetworks [09:00] *** RandalSchwartz has quit IRC (Quit: rebooting emacs) [09:02] *** schmir has joined #arpnetworks [09:11] *** olgagirl has joined #arpnetworks [09:12] *** olgagirl has quit IRC (Client Quit) [11:17] *** schmir has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection) [12:54] *** vtoms has joined #arpnetworks [12:54] *** Guest77155 has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) [12:57] *** coil has joined #arpnetworks [12:58] *** coil is now known as Guest57390 [14:15] *** vtoms has left [15:27] *** rainbow_ has joined #arpnetworks [15:27] *** rainbow_ has quit IRC (Client Quit) [15:29] *** schmir has joined #arpnetworks [15:47] *** trapdoor has joined #arpnetworks [15:48] *** schmir has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection) [16:41] *** trapdoor has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving) [17:54] *** RandalSchwartz has joined #arpnetworks [17:55] some day, I will meet the wise and noble up_the_irons [17:55] he should just drop by Maria's Downtown, and that'd make it easy. :) [18:22] RandalSchwartz: where is Maria's? I'm in downtown so little now, having specifically engineered all my gear to be remotely accessible (if something is down, there is no driving to add to additional downtime) [18:22] I'd say I can count that as a success :) [18:23] RandalSchwartz: are you still in LA? [18:24] all: today I will send all the pre-order people their signup link [18:26] I arrived the 4th, leaving the 16th or so [18:26] maria's is 600 block of floswer [18:26] flower [18:30] ah cool [18:31] oooh, and being mayor on 4square here gives me a free appetizer and dessert! [18:31] yeay [18:34] LOL [18:34] but since I get double miles for my credit card mon-wed, I'll save those for thursday :) [18:35] I've got neil's new machine mostly configured... he just has to test and approve before we go live this weekend [18:36] and then we can get off that ugly expensive EC2 box [18:40] ah cool [18:40] how is EC2 pricing these days? I find it kinda confusing so never did real calcs... but from what i've heard isn't it comparable to a vps, like $20 / month for something basic? [18:41] *** spits has joined #arpnetworks [18:41] like if you add up all the "CPU Hours" and crap [18:41] for a full month [18:41] sup [18:48] *** spits has quit IRC (Quit: Page closed) [18:56] *** cedwards has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer) [18:59] up_the_irons: I think a basic EC2 instance costs around $70/month. [18:59] Ask cmeiklejohn for the details. He's done the calcs. [19:01] neil's paying about $120/month for about half of what he'll be getting from ARP [19:01] so it's about 2 or 3 to 1 [19:01] and that doesn't count the multiple redundancies [19:14] what are the multiple redundancies? [19:15] mhoran: roger [19:17] power supply, disk, network, ultimately the CPU, [19:18] EC2 doesn't promise restarting my instance if the physical machine dies [19:18] I suspect you would [19:19] RandalSchwartz: doesn't EC2 have redudancy in those things though? I mean, it's supposed to be "cloudy" ;) [19:19] no - they promise restarting the boot image [19:19] RandalSchwartz: well yeah, I'd copy all the instances to a new machine [19:19] but not the live disk [19:19] RandalSchwartz: oh i c [19:19] we've had to calculate that into backup plans [19:19] so the live disk is not persistent, in that case? [19:20] right [19:20] weird [19:20] I have a script that snapshots to permanent storage [19:20] i mean, i assume they still have the live disk stored somewhere [19:20] but it'd still be a pain to get restarted [19:20] Yeah - weird eh? [19:20] you can't boot from permanent storage [19:20] only attache it [19:20] ah ok [19:20] I thought you could by now [19:21] nope [19:21] so my / is always volatile [19:21] I can issue a reboot, and it's preserved [19:21] but if they need to migrate, it's dead [19:21] that seems really dumb; but i think the EC2 market is different than the 24/7/365 uptime machine market [19:21] yup [19:21] it's all about servers starting from known AMIs [19:21] gotcha [19:22] so / is really irrelevant [19:22] yeah [19:22] what's important is where your DB is [19:22] and what your IPs are [19:23] gotcha [19:23] in fact, you coudl view local changes to / as distracting [19:24] and possibly destructive [19:24] you're supposed to get everything as you want for a boot image, then make an AMI from it [19:25] and then launch everything from there [19:25] it's a different model from a VPS [19:33] *** heavysixer has quit IRC (Quit: heavysixer) [19:40] RandalSchwartz: ah ok, so you can make your own AMI's, but not have an "forever evolving" AMI which would be like a VPS, always at the last state you had it [19:40] right [19:40] you *can* reboot your own server [19:40] but they don't promise eternal existance of it [19:41] so it's possible you'll have to boot from an AMI [19:41] as I said, you offer the far better deal for most mortals [19:42] and I really appreciate getting off the single dedicated box in texas [19:42] because god-forbit that thing go down... it'd be my problem to have backed up to another disk somewhere off box [19:42] where I know you have my disk in a place that a new CPU can look at it [19:43] and since I'm not the only guy on the box, many people would be yelling at you :) [19:43] so I don't have to be the guy yelling [19:44] RandalSchwartz: haha, yeah that's true [19:45] a buddy of mine had his dedicated box die recently; he then just bought a vps with me [19:45] there's an advantage in numbers [19:45] yeah [19:46] I know there's a slight security risk in the ring0 being penetrated, but that's all worth the upside [19:46] yeah [19:47] i fear that enough to take measures to avoid it [19:47] have you seen any recent hacks that break ring0 [19:47] theoretical ones have been demonstrated [19:47] yeah, just wondering about things in the field [19:48] you said you'd be rebooting when you needed to update. I don't recall any of those. [19:48] the debian / ubuntu security mailing list shows them from time to time, but when I see "[so and so] has demonstrated [such and such]", i never know if that "hack" was disclosed or still secret [19:50] I tend not to want to reboot every time a security update comes out. Many are not applicable. The ones that are can build up into a "super" update. Unfortunately, if I rebooted every time a Linux kernel hack came out, it'd be every few weeks [19:50] yeah - that's what I expected. [19:50] I guess you don't do that [19:51] the break-ins we've seen in the past (like the fsckvps fiasco) tend to come from weaker links, like bad / common passwords, leaving this too open, etc... [19:51] ok [19:52] yeah, it'll always be low-hanging fruit [19:52] s/this/things/ [19:52] hence, no more sshd on 22 for me [19:52] yeah me either [19:52] neil's first box was getting hammered 24x7 [19:52] so I just removed that [19:52] dictionary attacks, coordinated from 30 IPs [19:52] so clearly it was a mass attack [19:53] yeah [19:53] a .. z but from rotating 30 IPs [19:53] bad guys got too much resourcs [19:53] I blame redmond [19:53] same [19:54] for all the good that having windows made business buy computers... [19:54] I wonder if enough bad has already been done to reset that [19:54] gotta wonder [19:55] considering that 80%+ of spam is from zombies... [19:55] and zombies couldn't exist without windows desktop idiots visiting pr0n sites [19:56] gotta return some movies to the video store... [19:56] * up_the_irons wonders off [20:21] *** spits has joined #arpnetworks [20:27] whats up [20:41] *** heavysixer has joined #arpnetworks [20:41] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o heavysixer [20:49] *** cedwards has joined #arpnetworks [21:04] *** heavysixer has quit IRC (Quit: heavysixer) [21:41] up_the_irons: you doing signups at 12am? :) [22:04] ok work now, gotta run [22:09] lol [22:09] that would be sweet [23:32] *** spits has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)