[01:21] *** jahshua has joined #arpnetworks [01:21] *** jahshua has left [01:21] *** jahshua_ has quit IRC (Quit: leaving) [02:40] *** [FBI] starts logging #arpnetworks at Sun Jun 06 02:40:22 2010 [02:40] *** [FBI] has joined #arpnetworks [03:08] whee. [03:15] Wraithan: works now thanks :) routing seems to have been sorted overnight :) [03:16] hah, that's a funny - the guy who joined with nick 'M0OML' - i know him irl... small world, didn't know he was an arp customer hehe :) [05:20] Damn [05:20] I'm hung over [05:20] But that's no problem because I'm going out partying again today! [05:23] goodie [06:21] *** heavysixer has joined #arpnetworks [06:21] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o heavysixer [06:31] *** Nat_UB has quit IRC (Quit: leaving) [06:31] *** Nat_UB has joined #arpnetworks [06:39] *** jahshua has joined #arpnetworks [08:35] howdy [09:19] man - it's raining hard here in pdx [09:21] plenty of rain here in the uk too [09:21] oh good, glad we're not hogging it all :) [09:21] was raining here in Ireland earlier, pissing cats and dogs. moved off now [09:58] *** setient has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) [11:10] Raining in Boston too, and I'm heading to Baltimore where it is also raining. [11:33] RandalSchwartz: You're in PDX as well? [11:35] We had a beautiful day yesterday, then today it is back to shit weather [11:54] *** rainbow_ has joined #arpnetworks [12:36] I am, at least for now [12:36] yes, amazing difference [12:37] that's rose festival week for you. :) [12:41] Aye [12:53] I always found it amusing that we chose the most likely week for rain for our big tourist festival :) [12:56] It isn't the most likely, we are nearing the end of spring [12:56] spring = rainy [12:56] summer = slightly less rainy [12:56] fall = rainy [12:56] This year has rained more than it has in the past [12:56] winter = clear or snowy [12:56] and the summer rainy is an overstatement [12:56] well - in recent years, it's been different [12:57] but as a child, I can't recall seven days in a row without rain during summer [12:57] hence, I was trained early on to always take a coat with a hood even when it was 80 out [12:57] You were a child, your memory is faulty as it is. [12:57] my memory as an adult isn't much better. :) [12:58] I am born and raised here, summer has always been pretty sunny with a couple days of rain [12:58] maybe you're younger. :) [12:58] I probably am [12:58] Tends to be the case in tech circles [12:58] * Wraithan is 23 [12:59] ahh yeah. so my experience covers the 70's and 60's here. :) [12:59] as I said, it's been getting more sunny over time [13:00] probably due to the population increase [13:00] Even more likely that your memory is faulty ;) [13:00] er what? [13:00] more generated heat in the portland metro area [13:00] so less chance of rain [13:01] I [13:01] 'm not so sure about that [13:01] I mean, I recognize that it is warmer due to cities [13:02] it has to be cold enough to condense the rain out of the sky [13:02] if it's warmer, it's more likely to not dump until it hits the cascades [13:02] since we're in this valley, the first scraping happens on the coast range, and the second on the cascades [13:02] that's why it's never humid here [13:02] Guy who works in my office is a atmospheric scientist, I'll see how viable this is [13:03] tomorrow [13:03] and I too have studied meterology, both early on, and because I'm a pilot [13:03] He has a PhD... [13:03] sure - I learned from guys with those. :) [13:04] And you are joe blow on the internet [13:04] No offense [13:04] not really. I've never gone by joe blow [13:06] lol [13:07] and why do people always say "no offense" right around saying something offensive? :) :) [13:07] Because that isn't offensive to most people but some people would be offended [13:07] I'm also curious... why is the "internet" important in that sentence? [13:07] if I was talking to you at a bus stop, would you say the same thing? [13:08] yes [13:08] so you don't recognize that others might actually know things unless credentialed? [13:08] that's sad [13:08] I've made an entire successful career without having *any* credentials in the area [13:08] So have I [13:09] then your behavior is inconsistent... :) [13:09] And once people get to knwo me they trust my opinion on the things I have specialized in [13:09] and frankly, at 23 you can't have much of a career yet [13:09] I started when I was 15 [13:09] 8 years regardless [13:10] Ok, so you are also a sad individual, obviously I can't have a career because I am 'only' 23 [13:10] I'm a programmer, age doesn't really play into this [13:10] I'm speaking only of length of career [13:10] not what you are doing right now [13:10] I started coding for money at 15, started coding earlier than that. [13:11] me too [13:11] but 25 years before you started. :) [13:11] What does length of career have to do with whether it is a career then? [13:11] you're leaving out the word "entire successful" [13:12] that was my point [13:12] you're skipping over it [13:12] *shrug* the key part was successful career, which I have, without credentials [13:13] I could probably find people with credentials to agree that eight years isn't much of a success *yet* [13:13] it *can* be eventually [13:13] but you are missing that point [13:15] The point isn't the credentials though, they are just a different form of displaying expertise. His PhD means he studied for years to get to where he is. Which means it is easier to believe him, then after talking to him and he seems crediable it makes me believe him over someone on the internet who claims to be a pilot who has learned about meterology [13:15] Do you trust some dude who claims some stuff, or a person in your life who has already proven themselves trustworthy on the topic? [13:16] I tend to start by trusting people [13:16] it's gotten me further to mop up the messes from that than to start by distrusting people [13:16] This is the internet, on IRC, full of trolls, I don't bother with trust unless I know someone [13:16] that you're unwilling to trust me tells me you got slapped around pretty badly early on, and for that, I'm sad for you. [13:17] both in what must've happened then, and how it limits you now [13:17] Limits? [13:17] Just because I don't trust information doesn't mean I don't retain it [13:17] I just verify the parts that are questionable to me [13:18] and it's not just about the information though [13:18] it's also the way you must necessarily treat me [13:18] * AndrewBC eyes RandalSchwartz suspiciously [13:18] life isn't about just gathering and verifying info [13:18] *** schmir has joined #arpnetworks [13:18] it's also about the connections you make [13:19] Are you SURE about that? ;P [13:19] What are connections with people? In my mind, that is data. [13:19] I wasn't sure until 1995 [13:19] * AndrewBC runs off to life to verify [13:20] Wow... flashbacks to how I was when I was 23. :) [13:20] maybe it's just a phase, and you'll work through it. [13:20] I did. [13:20] but I had to get burned a few times before learning [13:21] it's not just data, it's asynchronous yet synchronized data with tangible values associated to the relationship independent of either side [13:21] and it's also context [13:21] in some cases, the context of the data is even more important than the data [13:21] data only becomes knowledge with context and understanding :P [13:22] until you understand why having a round of golf with a potential client, even if you never discuss the business, is important... you won't get it. :) [13:23] depends what sorta businesss you're in i guess [13:23] all the ones that matter. :) [13:23] meh [13:23] substitute "round of golf" with an appropriate activity, of course [13:25] RandalSchwartz: re: your ipv6 discussion last night, no need for .0 or .255 to be different in ipv4 either. [13:26] there has to be a brodcast addr in v4 [13:26] but maybe the .0 can be unspecial [13:26] there doesn't *have* to be a broadcast in ipv4 [13:26] there does, but it doesn't have to be .255 [13:26] no, there doesn't [13:26] I mean .255 in the sense of "all 1's" [13:26] depends on the netmask, etc [13:27] that's where I was going with that, yeah. [13:27] ahh - ok [13:27] well - I didn't have a fast way to say that [13:27] a /31 for example is perfectly valid and has no broadcast address [13:27] haha. Fair enough ;) [13:27] most people are familiar with /24's [13:27] that said, /31s are mostly annoying hehe :) [13:27] so I was just pretending we were talkin gabout those [13:27] bob^^: with a /31 you're the broadcast address ;) [13:28] hehe yeah i guess :) [13:28] some implementations would treat the odd address of a /31 as a broadcast though, right? [13:28] not everything supports a /31 [13:28] ahh ok [13:29] on the most part i wish they didn't exist [13:29] stupid address, everyone should use a /30 instead for point to points ;) [13:30] if we just soaked up ipv4 faster, we could force moving to ipv6 sooner [13:30] too much stuff can't support ipv6 yet [13:30] ... http://penrose.uk6x.com/ [13:30] otherwise i'd agree :) [13:31] bob^^: how much stuff *can't* support it, and how much of that needs to be public-facing? [13:31] i've got a lot of kit in work that has no way of doing ipv6 (yet, it's just slack on the manufacturers part tbh) and has to be public [13:31] there's no reason old gear can't get stuck in an ipv4 ghetto the same way we don't worry about ipx networks that don't speak ip :P [13:32] this is kit that runs linux, so absolutely no way it shouldn't do ipv6 - it's configured through a web interface that has no options for v6 though :( [13:32] plus [13:32] in europe [13:32] RIPE are being absolutely annoying about assinging ipv6 addresses just as they are fro ipv4 [13:32] we applied for a small 'test' range, and were denied [13:32] are they? [13:32] oh yeah [13:32] I thought ipv6 was *everywhere* there. [13:32] nope [13:32] far from it [13:32] in fact, things seem further ahead in the US to me [13:33] doubt that. [13:33] honestly :) [13:33] every DC I've been in over there has had native ipv6 [13:33] rare over here :P [13:33] which DCs? [13:33] heh - http://ipv6.he.net/statistics/ [13:33] 420 days! smoke'em if you got'em! [13:33] just had a new /16 :) [13:33] took a lot of work to get it though :) [13:33] I've been using miredo a lot [13:33] bob^^: I can imagine, /16 is huge. [13:34] so I'm actually on v6 even behind v4 [13:34] already all gone :( [13:34] and I connect to my ARP box via v6 [13:34] ... how did you manage to assign all of a /16? [13:34] ISP :) [13:34] RandalSchwartz: sounds inefficient ;) [13:34] we've got two /16's, a /17 and a /18 [13:34] all full pretty much [13:34] "everybody gets an IP! everybody gets an IP!" [13:34] bob^^: even if you're assigning them all a /48 isn't that still 4 billion of them? [13:34] ah - this is v4 [13:34] so no :) [13:34] oh [13:35] I was going to say :P [13:35] RIPE are *really* annoying with v4 [13:35] RandalSchwartz, look under your chaaaiiirs [13:35] but i was surprised how annoying they were with v6 tbh, given how many there are [13:35] "ooh! 10.42.69.69!" [13:35] YOU WIN! [13:35] now pay taxes on it [13:36] RandalSchwartz: I dunno, I'll put more faith in that countdown when they run out of ranges to reassign. [13:36] tbh [13:37] they should be forcing the original /8 assignments back into free use :) [13:37] those /8s are held by very big companies, I don't think ARIN has a lot of leverage :P [13:38] yeah :( [13:38] even the US gov't couldn't afford litigation with IBM ;) [13:38] i know of one educational instituion here in the UK that has a *seriously* large assignment from way back when the internet started [13:38] and they don't use it [13:38] at all [13:39] but they refuse to give it up :( [13:39] of course not, it's going to be worth something some day. [13:39] that would be irresponsible. [13:39] indeed :) [13:40] one thing I would suspect is that a lot of these original blocks are actually assigned internally. [13:41] yes, you are right [13:41] i know IBM do that with 9/8 [13:41] I think I heard GE does as well. [13:41] you'd think they could free up at least some of the US gov't assignments too [13:42] i'm guessing HP probably do too [13:42] DISA has ... well, at least the 4 /8s I see. [13:43] heh - hitting red.stonehenge.com from the he.net in one wilshire is 2 hops away [13:43] ... http://lg.he.net/ [13:43] there's also, imho, a *lot* of waste around multicast [13:43] pfft, traceroute lies. [13:43] bob^^: spoken like someone who doesn't use multicast ;) [13:44] oh no, we use mcast [13:44] but mostly internal :) [13:44] same. [13:46] is 5/8 allocated yet? [13:46] it says IANA-reserved [13:47] it's one of those stupid ones that people have used for private stuff [13:47] hamachi uses 5/8 for example [13:47] oh. evil [13:47] even if it was assigned, chances are it'd end up polluted :( [13:47] just like 1/8 [13:47] and I meant that also about hamachi :) [13:47] yeah :) [13:48] let's just take back all the ipv4 we gave china [13:48] they're only abusing it anyway :) [13:48] true! [13:49] does ford really need 19/8 ? [13:49] we'll give them a /30, everything else they can NAT ;) [13:49] doubt it, but i bet it's used internally on everything :( [13:49] 23/8 is reserved too? [13:50] * RandalSchwartz is typing "whois -a N.0.0.0" repeatedly [13:50] hehe [13:50] http://www.iana.org/assignments/ipv4-address-space/ipv4-address-space.xml [13:50] ;) [13:50] that's too easy [13:50] 240/8->255/8 is still free too [13:51] the old class D? [13:51] bob^^: meh, 69/8 was successfully assigned. [13:51] ... eventually. [13:51] fucking bogons lists. [13:51] hehehe [13:52] those things piss me off. They're like RBLs but worse because they never get turned off when they're unmaintained :P [13:52] yeah, unmaintained bogons = very bad news [13:52] yeah. [13:52] well maintained = good news [13:52] ... I guess, but still. [13:52] but on the whole you're right, it's never kept maintained [13:52] we drop the usual suspects at network borders [13:52] rfc1918 mostly [13:52] I had a 69.something block (I forget which now) and would get random network problems because some idiot didn't update. [13:53] i read a lot about 1/8 being assigned as well and causing all sorts of trouble [13:53] because i believe cisco used to train people to use 1/8 for point to point internal stuff [13:53] haha. [13:53] indeed :/ [13:53] I can't imagine the fun 1.2.3.4 gets. [13:53] iirc, a route reflector ended up having about 400mbit/s shoved up it :) [13:53] meh, 400mbit... [13:53] ;) [13:55] http://labs.ripe.net/content/pollution-18 [13:56] wasn't that much :) [13:56] it was just on a very crappy link and ended up a little oversubscribed :) [13:57] ended up dropping announcments for 1.1.1.0/24 and 1.2.3.0/24 hehe [13:57] at the end of the day, I'm still amazed anything works on the net [13:58] it's like... magic [14:00] :) [14:00] come work for an isp ;) [14:01] well - I mean I know how it works technically [14:01] been there, done that ;) [14:01] it's still just... full of wonder and amazement [14:01] no kidding. [14:02] considering that here we are, having this conversation [14:02] and aren't paying compuserve 10 cents a minute [14:02] or dialed in to an 8-line BBS [14:03] and that I own this machine... [14:03] no wait... this *virtual* machine [14:03] somewhere in the bits inside a real machine in LA [14:03] so that I can have a net presence [14:03] hehe [14:04] which is a gross presence minus the overhead. :) [14:05] anyway, I wax poetically now :) [14:06] *** rainbow_ has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection) [14:10] *** fink has joined #arpnetworks [14:11] *** jahshua is now known as nesta [14:12] *** nesta has quit IRC (Quit: leaving) [14:19] *** sentabi has joined #arpnetworks [14:44] *** nesta has joined #arpnetworks [15:00] *** cmeiklejohn has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) [15:01] *** fink has quit IRC (Quit: fink) [15:28] *** schmir has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) [15:35] *** cmeiklejohn has joined #arpnetworks [15:35] *** cmeiklejohn has quit IRC (Client Quit) [15:35] *** cmeiklejohn has joined #arpnetworks [15:36] *** cmeiklejohn has quit IRC (Changing host) [15:36] *** cmeiklejohn has joined #arpnetworks [16:11] *** visinin has joined #arpnetworks [16:31] *** visinin has quit IRC (Quit: leaving) [17:08] *** sentabi has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer) [17:09] *** sentabi has joined #arpnetworks [17:10] *** sentabi has quit IRC (Changing host) [17:10] *** sentabi has joined #arpnetworks [17:57] *** fink has joined #arpnetworks [18:10] *** amdprophet has joined #arpnetworks [18:27] *** fink has quit IRC (Quit: fink) [18:33] well, we officially killed our vps :P [18:34] in single user mode now trying to fix pdns [18:34] ouch [18:34] *** fink has joined #arpnetworks [18:34] ZFS may have been a bad idea on a vps [18:34] not enough memory [18:51] amdprophet: I haven't had problems with ZFS.. yet. [18:51] * cedwards knocks on wood. [18:52] it isn't ZFS's fault directly [18:52] we're running apache with a couple of php apps and a couple of rails apps [18:52] apache memory usage skyrockets and ZFS has no memory left to use, which causes it to freeze up [18:54] ahh [18:54] I've got quite a few vhosts on my web server, but I've cached it well enough (and I use lighttpd) that my memory stays pretty healthy. [18:55] yea, lighttpd should be a lot better, we're looking at switching to nginx as a proxy, lighttpd for php apps, and unicorn for rails apps [18:55] nginx is very good [18:56] I don't like lighttpd because of the memory leaks, I think they may have been fixed now [18:56] yea that's what i heard about lighttpd, monit should take care of that though [18:56] I hear mostly good things about nginx [18:56] I gotta get them on FLOSS Weekly [19:02] * RandalSchwartz writes the russian responsible for nginx [19:04] do you run FLOSS Weekly? [19:04] au: lot of people use it in huge production environments, must be solved to some degree. [19:04] I do [19:04] awesome [19:04] i'm going to have to subscribe to it [19:04] twit.tv/floss [19:04] 120 back issues [19:05] you'll be there for a while :) [19:05] video too? [19:05] the recent ones, yes [19:06] oh nice, one on haiku! [19:07] they're not all in the RSS feed [19:07] but the names are all regular [19:08] curl -O 'http://www.podtrac.com/pts/redirect.mp3/twit.cachefly.net/floss[0-0122].mp3' [19:09] Oh hmm. the older ones aren't there [19:10] :( [19:11] I'm asking... they used to be there. [19:11] they recently renumbered to be 4-digit numbers [19:11] probably just a mistake in the files [19:11] ahh - the older ones were named FLOSS-nn.mp3 [19:12] FLOSS-nnn.mp3 [19:12] changed around episode 95 [19:13] between 92 and 93 [19:13] so curl -O 'http://www.podtrac.com/pts/redirect.mp3/twit.cachefly.net/floss[0092-0122].mp3' [19:13] so curl -O 'http://www.podtrac.com/pts/redirect.mp3/twit.cachefly.net/floss[0093-0122].mp3' then [19:13] and [19:14] curl -O 'http://www.podtrac.com/pts/redirect.mp3/twit.cachefly.net/FLOSS-[001-092].mp3' [19:14] that'll download all of them [19:15] thanks [19:17] my isp is acting up again, i'm getting around 1 mbps down on the speedtests [19:17] jdoe: only large sites I know of that use it are the pirate bay and torrentfreak haha [19:17] i should be getting 30-ish [19:17] wordpress use nginx I believe [19:17] amdprophet: I get 8 kbit/s down, you shouldn't complain ;) [19:17] dialup? [19:19] nope, I live in Australia :P [19:19] oh rofl... [19:19] I have 300kbit/s normally, but once I go over 3 GB, slowed to 8 kbit/s [19:19] au: youtube, yahoo [19:19] I'm used to it, haha [19:19] youtube run google web server I though [19:20] au: i'm friends with a girl near brisbane, she has the same issue... telstra? [19:20] yep [19:21] amdprophet: well bigpond, which telstra own [19:21] basically, telstra own all the lines here [19:21] own all the exchages [19:21] exchanges* [19:21] they have a monopoly [19:23] *** nesta has quit IRC (Quit: leaving) [19:24] that sucks [19:24] hopefully you'll get the NBN soon and that guy planning on filtering it gets forced out [19:24] then you'll have some nice & fast unfiltered fibre lines ;) [19:26] 1 [19:26] yep [19:26] stupid labor govt [19:26] labour * [19:26] :P [19:27] wait [19:27] australians spell it the american way? [19:28] people are lazy. [19:28] hah [19:28] *** fink has quit IRC (Quit: fink) [19:35] *** fink has joined #arpnetworks [19:35] yes it's spelt labour, but they call themselves labor I think [19:36] yep http://www.alp.org.au/ [19:37] jdoe: according to netcraft, youtube run apache and yahoo run 'yts' [19:39] dunno about netcraft, I assume lighttpd's site isn't lying. [19:40] it doesn't mention yahoo, I forget where I read that. [19:40] maybe outdated [19:40] I remember youtube ran lighttpd [19:40] but then their was 502 gateway error I saw one day [19:40] now it just seems to be apache [19:41] arpnetworks - Apache/2.2.11 (Ubuntu) Phusion_Passenger/2.2.4 PHP/5.2.6-3ubuntu4.5 with Suhosin-Patch mod_ssl/2.2.11 OpenSSL/0.9.8g [19:47] boo reporting versions... [19:47] haha ubuntu [19:48] he should have his servertokens set to Prod [19:49] *** heavysixer has quit IRC (Quit: heavysixer) [19:54] *** fink has quit IRC (Quit: fink) [20:01] RandalSchwartz: so I can brag about knowing you now that I know you're famous and all :) [20:10] twit's cool, though havent' listened to it for a bit [20:16] *** fink has joined #arpnetworks [20:23] *** fink has quit IRC (Quit: fink) [21:35] amdprophet, I think you mean infamous :D [21:36] lol [22:08] *** cmeiklej1hn has joined #arpnetworks