syminet: w00t
hi up_the_irons
hi
irssi <3
ircii hmm
-au- VERSION X-Chat Aqua 0.16.0 (xchat 2.6.1) Darwin 10.3.0 [i386/2.26GHz/SMP]
xchat!
I don't like xchat though
irssi ftw
totally
I've been using irssi/bitlbee + screen + ssh for 2+yrs. It's where I _live_ :)
wine+mIRC
(joke)
i've been on irssi + screen + ssh for about 10 years now :)
works fantastically well
irssi has been around that long?
I hear a lot of people are moving to tmux over screen, but I haven't taken the time to learn it yet.
yeah i think it's been about since about 1998
with bind, how do ya seperate ip's such as in         allow-query     { localhost; };
would it be allow-query       { 10.0.0.1, 192.168.0.5; }; etc?
au: { 10.0.0.1; 10.0.0.2; 10.0.0.3; };
thanks
how is everyone
out of curiosity
when will more vps space be available :)
no announcement made yet
"soon" :)
"next few weeks"
have you emailed preorder@ ?
setient?
no i should have
i mean it isn't too pressing
i have a fbsd vps from another provider
ok
are they xen based or kvm or something else like vmware
qemu?
... Our virtual machines run on Linux KVM/QEMU. KVM/QEMU provides full hardware virtualization and is not a hypervisor like Xen.
... http://arpnetworks.com/vps
i should have read the full page i suppose
only if you ask *another* question that's also on that page. :)
so what do you do
me
?
right now, I'm trying to install Perl modules that depend on BerkeleyDB, which apparently isn't installed in the right place
oh i hate that shit
yeah
I have three versions of Perl on my laptop, and the one that I need to run $client's code of course *isn't* the one with BDB, which I need. :)
isn't there something like rvm for perl?
and apparently, the .a and .h files can't just be "borrowed"
what's rvm?
ruby version manager
basically allows you to install tons of different versions of ruby with different gems
dunno.  haven't used rvm.
i don't see why you couldnt' adapt it to perl
ahh, well, I have different installations, but that's part of the problem
on our production systems we got 3 versions of ruby
and dev and qa.  we will prolly be adding a 4th once 1.9.x becomes stable and stuff
I tried pointing this Berkeley module at the libdb area
but it doesn't seem to build right
even though the Perl built as part of that area works fine
so I'm trying to figure out what the difference is
ahh 5.8 vs 5.10
that might make a differene
IMHO if you are on freebsd there is an easy way to do this
just have a few different ports trees installed
with different install paths
not on freebsd
OSX laptop
oh you could prolly do the same with different destdirs of the pkgsrc
netbsd's pkgsrc works on osx
I have macports
that's not the one I'm having trouble with
I have a naked perl 5.10.1 tree as well
it wants BDB "installed" somwhere
and it doesn't know how to install it
so I'm trying to use the one from macports
lol @ production ruby
jdoe: lol
better than php
by miles
anything is better than PHP
PHP bashing! Can I join in?
take a number. :)
mysql_real_escape_string(getNumber($_POST['this_all_looks_horrible']))
NO, THIS FUNCTION IS THE REAL ONE, WE PROMISE.
honestly though i'm starting to think that javascript is worse
if you want to complain there are better reasons
fwiw mysql_real_escape_string is named after a mysql function :P
better complaints are their utter lack of any sort of consistent function naming scheme.
yeah, and all the string formatting functions were direct copies of the c functions
and yes, I portrayed that in my example ;) subtle complaint
... or functions in the mysql and mysqli modules that have the same names but take different arguments in different orders.
and that ()?:; is broken
er... what's wrong with ()?:?
the ternary operator I guess it's called
yes.
gotta repost this - http://www.tnx.nl/php.jpg
that was my desktop for a bit :)
and no - I didn't create that
but it was based on a comment I made in some forum
that's amusing.
I dunno. I don't like PHP, but when writing a web app I'd pick that over almost anything else :/
eh
django is pretty nice
Seaside for the win
chicagoboss looks fresh
oooh, speaking of which
new chicagoboss stuff, yay!
once you've *debugged* with seaside, you can't seriously go use anything else
intra-hit debugging
nothing else has it
sorry jdoe, got distracted by pizza
pizza *is* distracting
anyway, PHP evaluates the ternary operator in the wrong order
guy here ordered a half mexican half hawaiian pizza
resulting in some craziness if you don't expect that
I was trying to think of a place midway :)
"wrong" order?
http://andrewbc.pastebin.com/YfVnENpU
oh, that's supposed to be \n
minor mistake
that prints uno, right?
what would you expect that to print?
uno
nope, that prints dos, last I checked
how does it get to that?
expression ? false : true ?
good question, I'm not quite sure
not according to the docs - The expression (expr1) ? (expr2) : (expr3) evaluates to expr2 if expr1 evaluates to TRUE, and expr3 if expr1 evaluates to FALSE.
that's what C and Perl does
so I expect it's what PHP does
I tested it here: http://writecodeonline.com/php/
wish they had pastebin functionality with that
odd - because with a single conditional, it's uno
heh - every time you evaluate that, it removes a \
stupid website
oh that must be what happened to my \n
I didn't notice
man it's because your nesting is wack
It defies what one would expect to happen
http://don.gs/~will/fresh.php
http://don.gs/~will/fresh.phps
whoops don't have the content-type set right for the phps
what version are you running?
http://don.gs/~will/fresh.txt
maybe they've fixed it
the second ternary statement needs to be parenthesized
5.2.12
the second ternary shouldn't have to be
that's a bad parse
true
why, though? I mean even if they're evaluating it
true ? THIS : [anything here]
should pick THIS
yeah
so, huh
But anyway, if they've fixed it I guess I can't complain about that anymore
the real wtf is how you could get that wrong as a compiler designer :)
heh
and then you wonder what else is broken
it destroys trust
"I was really, really bad at writing parsers. I still am really bad at writing parsers." -- Rasmus Lerdorf
yeah, I didn't really start noticing PHP's problems for a long time, because I didn't use much else. Over time it kinda starts sinking in though.
And -then- it stopped returning my calls, and that's what ended it for me. ;)
Or a sadface, this whole human emotion thing still eludes me.
YOUR NESTING IS WACK
haha.
no
my only real complaint with php
the one that I can't just suck it up and ignore
is that it treats $var['0'] and $var[0] as the same thing.
which is fundafuckingmentally broken.
well - that it treats arrays and hashes as almost the same thing is also broken
as in, they may mostly be ordered, until you introduce a key that isn't a valid array index
yeah, but surely we can agree that silently unboxing the key is insane :P
not even unboxing.
since PHP has roots in Perl, I can understand '0' == 0
it's not "unboxing"
in Perl, those are both scalars
not distinct types
I think PHP works similarly
hrm, perl does the same thing.
how 'bout that.
by design
0 and '0' aren't two different objects
this actually heralds back to awk'
which also worked that way
then again, that's the same as shell :)
or early TCL
modern TCL might distinguish them though
I never kept up after the "great unstringification"
What's tha?
t* gar my T key is messed up.
some version of TCL stopped stringifying everything
hum
I forget which one
as in {2 {3 4}} actually stays as a data structure
prior to that, to pass it to a subroutine, it'd flatten it as a string, then reconstruct it in the sub
weird
logically, you can say it still does it that way
but realistically, it now optimizes the common cases
RandalSchwartz: they should be. '0'+'0'="00" makes more sense than 0
absolutely not to me
only in very broken javascript
where you're never quite sure what "a + b" might mean
so you end up jumping through hoops to "force" the left side to number or string just to get the *correct* +
I'm not arguing in favour of javascript
that's a broken definition of +
well it depends on how you want to define addition on strings.
concat is relatively popular for that :P
only once javascript came around
before that, I'd *never* seen that definition
and I've been around
er, lisp does it that way
really?  not original lisp
maybe some modern version
hrm, maybe I'm thinking of something else...
seriously, the very *first* time I saw "string" + "string" was javascript
well, as a concat
hrm
no, it's elsewhere.
in Awk and Perl, it was "coerce to number"
apparently I was thinking of C++
sure - say where and when
looks like...
C++, ruby, python are the big ones.
pretty sure Java does it too, now that I think of it.
... there's vbscript and php, though I'd as soon not mention those ;)
wait.  ruby has 'foo' + 'bar' => 'foobar'?
really?
yeah
http://www.techotopia.com/index.php/Ruby_String_Concatenation_and_Comparison
gah.  remind me never to use ruby now
that's a WTF broken feature
haha. Any time ;)
I even occasionally despise that there's not a way to ensure that only booleans are used in tests in Perl
I don't happen to want to believe that "8" is true :)
although there are places where that makes sense
8 might be an acceptable return value for true.
ie libc's read
uh.  why do you need that
if (read(...) > 0)
no need for
if (read(...) )
what I was suggesting was actually
if ((x = read(...)) > 0) { ... }
sure
again, the > 0 makes it more clear
yeah, although to be fair I only included it because you usually want that as a three stage if/else
one for >0, one for 0, one for <0
It's always bugged me when people override + to be a non-commutative operation (like "foo"+"bar" # => "foobar")