[01:00] *** LT has joined #arpnetworks [02:08] *** baklava has quit IRC (Quit: Game Over. Please insert another token into the ring.) [03:05] *** syminet has joined #arpnetworks [03:06] syminet: w00t [03:07] *** syminet has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection) [03:08] hi up_the_irons [03:10] hi [03:12] *** syminet has joined #arpnetworks [03:12] * syminet still needs to learn ircii better :-) [03:15] irssi <3 [03:15] ircii hmm [03:16] -au- VERSION X-Chat Aqua 0.16.0 (xchat 2.6.1) Darwin 10.3.0 [i386/2.26GHz/SMP] [03:16] xchat! [03:16] I don't like xchat though [03:20] *** syminet has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving) [03:22] *** syminet has joined #arpnetworks [03:47] *** LT has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving) [04:18] *** syminet has quit IRC (Quit: Lost terminal) [04:26] *** LT has joined #arpnetworks [04:40] irssi ftw [04:40] totally [04:42] I've been using irssi/bitlbee + screen + ssh for 2+yrs. It's where I _live_ :) [04:43] wine+mIRC [04:43] (joke) [04:55] i've been on irssi + screen + ssh for about 10 years now :) [04:55] works fantastically well [04:59] irssi has been around that long? [04:59] I hear a lot of people are moving to tmux over screen, but I haven't taken the time to learn it yet. [05:07] yeah i think it's been about since about 1998 [05:17] with bind, how do ya seperate ip's such as in allow-query { localhost; }; [05:18] would it be allow-query { 10.0.0.1, 192.168.0.5; }; etc? [05:18] au: { 10.0.0.1; 10.0.0.2; 10.0.0.3; }; [05:18] thanks [05:48] *** ziyourenxiang has joined #arpnetworks [05:57] *** heavysixer has joined #arpnetworks [05:57] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o heavysixer [06:24] *** vtoms has joined #arpnetworks [07:10] *** mrbit has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) [07:34] *** LT has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving) [08:49] *** ziyourenxiang has quit IRC (Quit: ziyourenxiang) [09:38] *** rainbow has joined #arpnetworks [09:38] *** rainbow is now known as Guest99101 [10:18] *** visinin has joined #arpnetworks [10:31] *** vtoms has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) [10:33] *** vtoms has joined #arpnetworks [10:42] *** fink has joined #arpnetworks [10:52] *** fink has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer) [10:53] *** fink has joined #arpnetworks [11:06] *** BarberRonny has joined #arpnetworks [12:47] *** fink has quit IRC (Quit: fink) [13:18] how is everyone [13:18] out of curiosity [13:19] when will more vps space be available :) [13:21] no announcement made yet [13:22] "soon" :) [13:22] "next few weeks" [13:22] have you emailed preorder@ ? [13:26] setient? [13:27] no i should have [13:28] i mean it isn't too pressing [13:28] i have a fbsd vps from another provider [13:28] ok [13:28] are they xen based or kvm or something else like vmware [13:28] qemu? [13:28] ... Our virtual machines run on Linux KVM/QEMU. KVM/QEMU provides full hardware virtualization and is not a hypervisor like Xen. [13:28] ... http://arpnetworks.com/vps [13:29] i should have read the full page i suppose [13:29] only if you ask *another* question that's also on that page. :) [13:31] so what do you do [13:32] me [13:33] ? [13:33] right now, I'm trying to install Perl modules that depend on BerkeleyDB, which apparently isn't installed in the right place [13:33] oh i hate that shit [13:34] yeah [13:34] I have three versions of Perl on my laptop, and the one that I need to run $client's code of course *isn't* the one with BDB, which I need. :) [13:37] isn't there something like rvm for perl? [13:37] and apparently, the .a and .h files can't just be "borrowed" [13:37] what's rvm? [13:37] ruby version manager [13:38] basically allows you to install tons of different versions of ruby with different gems [13:38] dunno. haven't used rvm. [13:38] i don't see why you couldnt' adapt it to perl [13:38] ahh, well, I have different installations, but that's part of the problem [13:38] on our production systems we got 3 versions of ruby [13:38] and dev and qa. we will prolly be adding a 4th once 1.9.x becomes stable and stuff [13:39] I tried pointing this Berkeley module at the libdb area [13:39] but it doesn't seem to build right [13:39] even though the Perl built as part of that area works fine [13:39] so I'm trying to figure out what the difference is [13:42] ahh 5.8 vs 5.10 [13:42] that might make a differene [13:49] IMHO if you are on freebsd there is an easy way to do this [13:49] just have a few different ports trees installed [13:49] with different install paths [13:50] not on freebsd [13:50] OSX laptop [13:52] oh you could prolly do the same with different destdirs of the pkgsrc [13:52] netbsd's pkgsrc works on osx [13:53] I have macports [13:53] that's not the one I'm having trouble with [13:53] I have a naked perl 5.10.1 tree as well [13:53] it wants BDB "installed" somwhere [13:53] and it doesn't know how to install it [13:54] so I'm trying to use the one from macports [14:24] lol @ production ruby [14:38] *** vtoms has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving.) [14:38] *** vtoms has joined #arpnetworks [14:41] *** Guest99101 has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection) [15:07] *** vtoms has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving.) [15:15] *** heavysixer has quit IRC (Quit: heavysixer) [15:24] jdoe: lol [15:24] better than php [15:24] by miles [16:37] *** AndrewBC has quit IRC (Quit: Bye!) [16:40] *** AndrewBC has joined #arpnetworks [18:21] anything is better than PHP [18:23] PHP bashing! Can I join in? [18:25] take a number. :) [18:28] *** heavysixer has joined #arpnetworks [18:28] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o heavysixer [18:32] mysql_real_escape_string(getNumber($_POST['this_all_looks_horrible'])) [18:33] NO, THIS FUNCTION IS THE REAL ONE, WE PROMISE. [18:33] honestly though i'm starting to think that javascript is worse [18:33] * AndrewBC coughs and settles down [18:33] if you want to complain there are better reasons [18:34] fwiw mysql_real_escape_string is named after a mysql function :P [18:34] better complaints are their utter lack of any sort of consistent function naming scheme. [18:34] yeah, and all the string formatting functions were direct copies of the c functions [18:34] and yes, I portrayed that in my example ;) subtle complaint [18:34] ... or functions in the mysql and mysqli modules that have the same names but take different arguments in different orders. [18:34] and that ()?:; is broken [18:35] er... what's wrong with ()?:? [18:35] the ternary operator I guess it's called [18:35] yes. [18:36] gotta repost this - http://www.tnx.nl/php.jpg [18:36] that was my desktop for a bit :) [18:37] and no - I didn't create that [18:37] but it was based on a comment I made in some forum [18:37] that's amusing. [18:38] I dunno. I don't like PHP, but when writing a web app I'd pick that over almost anything else :/ [18:39] eh [18:39] django is pretty nice [18:39] Seaside for the win [18:39] chicagoboss looks fresh [18:39] oooh, speaking of which [18:40] new chicagoboss stuff, yay! [18:40] once you've *debugged* with seaside, you can't seriously go use anything else [18:40] intra-hit debugging [18:40] nothing else has it [18:40] sorry jdoe, got distracted by pizza [18:41] pizza *is* distracting [18:41] anyway, PHP evaluates the ternary operator in the wrong order [18:41] guy here ordered a half mexican half hawaiian pizza [18:41] resulting in some craziness if you don't expect that [18:41] I was trying to think of a place midway :) [18:41] "wrong" order? [18:42] http://andrewbc.pastebin.com/YfVnENpU [18:42] oh, that's supposed to be \n [18:42] minor mistake [18:43] that prints uno, right? [18:43] what would you expect that to print? [18:43] uno [18:43] nope, that prints dos, last I checked [18:43] how does it get to that? [18:44] expression ? false : true ? [18:44] good question, I'm not quite sure [18:44] not according to the docs - The expression (expr1) ? (expr2) : (expr3) evaluates to expr2 if expr1 evaluates to TRUE, and expr3 if expr1 evaluates to FALSE. [18:44] that's what C and Perl does [18:45] so I expect it's what PHP does [18:45] I tested it here: http://writecodeonline.com/php/ [18:45] wish they had pastebin functionality with that [18:46] odd - because with a single conditional, it's uno [18:47] heh - every time you evaluate that, it removes a \ [18:47] stupid website [18:47] oh that must be what happened to my \n [18:47] I didn't notice [18:47] man it's because your nesting is wack [18:48] It defies what one would expect to happen [18:48] http://don.gs/~will/fresh.php [18:48] http://don.gs/~will/fresh.phps [18:48] whoops don't have the content-type set right for the phps [18:48] what version are you running? [18:48] http://don.gs/~will/fresh.txt [18:48] maybe they've fixed it [18:49] the second ternary statement needs to be parenthesized [18:49] 5.2.12 [18:49] the second ternary shouldn't have to be [18:49] that's a bad parse [18:49] true [18:49] why, though? I mean even if they're evaluating it [18:49] true ? THIS : [anything here] [18:49] should pick THIS [18:50] yeah [18:50] so, huh [18:50] But anyway, if they've fixed it I guess I can't complain about that anymore [18:50] the real wtf is how you could get that wrong as a compiler designer :) [18:50] heh [18:50] and then you wonder what else is broken [18:51] it destroys trust [18:51] "I was really, really bad at writing parsers. I still am really bad at writing parsers." -- Rasmus Lerdorf [18:52] yeah, I didn't really start noticing PHP's problems for a long time, because I didn't use much else. Over time it kinda starts sinking in though. [18:52] And -then- it stopped returning my calls, and that's what ended it for me. ;) [18:52] Or a sadface, this whole human emotion thing still eludes me. [18:56] *** visinin has quit IRC (Quit: sf) [19:44] YOUR NESTING IS WACK [19:44] haha. [19:44] no [19:44] my only real complaint with php [19:44] the one that I can't just suck it up and ignore [19:45] is that it treats $var['0'] and $var[0] as the same thing. [19:45] which is fundafuckingmentally broken. [19:47] well - that it treats arrays and hashes as almost the same thing is also broken [19:47] as in, they may mostly be ordered, until you introduce a key that isn't a valid array index [19:49] yeah, but surely we can agree that silently unboxing the key is insane :P [19:49] not even unboxing. [19:55] since PHP has roots in Perl, I can understand '0' == 0 [19:55] it's not "unboxing" [19:55] in Perl, those are both scalars [19:55] not distinct types [19:55] I think PHP works similarly [19:59] hrm, perl does the same thing. [19:59] how 'bout that. [20:00] by design [20:00] 0 and '0' aren't two different objects [20:00] this actually heralds back to awk' [20:00] which also worked that way [20:01] then again, that's the same as shell :) [20:01] or early TCL [20:01] modern TCL might distinguish them though [20:02] I never kept up after the "great unstringification" [20:02] What's tha? [20:02] t* gar my T key is messed up. [20:02] some version of TCL stopped stringifying everything [20:03] hum [20:03] I forget which one [20:03] as in {2 {3 4}} actually stays as a data structure [20:03] prior to that, to pass it to a subroutine, it'd flatten it as a string, then reconstruct it in the sub [20:04] weird [20:04] logically, you can say it still does it that way [20:04] but realistically, it now optimizes the common cases [20:17] RandalSchwartz: they should be. '0'+'0'="00" makes more sense than 0 [20:18] absolutely not to me [20:18] only in very broken javascript [20:18] where you're never quite sure what "a + b" might mean [20:19] so you end up jumping through hoops to "force" the left side to number or string just to get the *correct* + [20:19] I'm not arguing in favour of javascript [20:19] that's a broken definition of + [20:19] well it depends on how you want to define addition on strings. [20:19] concat is relatively popular for that :P [20:19] only once javascript came around [20:19] before that, I'd *never* seen that definition [20:19] and I've been around [20:20] er, lisp does it that way [20:20] really? not original lisp [20:20] maybe some modern version [20:20] hrm, maybe I'm thinking of something else... [20:20] seriously, the very *first* time I saw "string" + "string" was javascript [20:21] well, as a concat [20:21] hrm [20:21] no, it's elsewhere. [20:21] in Awk and Perl, it was "coerce to number" [20:21] apparently I was thinking of C++ [20:21] sure - say where and when [20:22] looks like... [20:22] C++, ruby, python are the big ones. [20:22] pretty sure Java does it too, now that I think of it. [20:23] ... there's vbscript and php, though I'd as soon not mention those ;) [20:23] wait. ruby has 'foo' + 'bar' => 'foobar'? [20:23] really? [20:23] yeah [20:23] http://www.techotopia.com/index.php/Ruby_String_Concatenation_and_Comparison [20:23] gah. remind me never to use ruby now [20:23] that's a WTF broken feature [20:23] haha. Any time ;) [20:24] I even occasionally despise that there's not a way to ensure that only booleans are used in tests in Perl [20:24] I don't happen to want to believe that "8" is true :) [20:25] although there are places where that makes sense [20:25] 8 might be an acceptable return value for true. [20:25] ie libc's read [20:25] uh. why do you need that [20:25] if (read(...) > 0) [20:25] no need for [20:25] if (read(...) ) [20:26] what I was suggesting was actually [20:26] if ((x = read(...)) > 0) { ... } [20:26] sure [20:26] again, the > 0 makes it more clear [20:26] yeah, although to be fair I only included it because you usually want that as a three stage if/else [20:26] one for >0, one for 0, one for <0 [22:35] It's always bugged me when people override + to be a non-commutative operation (like "foo"+"bar" # => "foobar")