#arpnetworks 2010-06-04,Fri

↑back Search ←Prev date Next date→ Show only urls(Click on time to select a line by its url)
WhoWhatWhen
***LT has joined #arpnetworks [01:00]
.............. (idle for 1h8mn)
baklava has quit IRC (Quit: Game Over. Please insert another token into the ring.) [02:08]
............ (idle for 57mn)
syminet has joined #arpnetworks [03:05]
up_the_ironssyminet: w00t [03:06]
***syminet has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection) [03:07]
auhi up_the_irons [03:08]
up_the_ironshi [03:10]
***syminet has joined #arpnetworks [03:12]
syminetsyminet still needs to learn ircii better :-) [03:12]
bob^^irssi <3 [03:15]
auircii hmm
-au- VERSION X-Chat Aqua 0.16.0 (xchat 2.6.1) Darwin 10.3.0 [i386/2.26GHz/SMP]
xchat!
I don't like xchat though 		[03:15]
***syminet has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving)
syminet has joined #arpnetworks 		[03:20]
...... (idle for 25mn)
LT has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving) [03:47]
....... (idle for 31mn)
syminet has quit IRC (Quit: Lost terminal) [04:18]
LT has joined #arpnetworks [04:26]
cedwardsirssi ftw [04:40]
infraredtotally [04:40]
cedwardsI've been using irssi/bitlbee + screen + ssh for 2+yrs. It's where I _live_ :) [04:42]
infraredwine+mIRC
(joke) 		[04:43]
bob^^i've been on irssi + screen + ssh for about 10 years now :)
works fantastically well 		[04:55]
cedwardsirssi has been around that long?
I hear a lot of people are moving to tmux over screen, but I haven't taken the time to learn it yet. 		[04:59]
bob^^yeah i think it's been about since about 1998 [05:07]
auwith bind, how do ya seperate ip's such as in allow-query { localhost; };
would it be allow-query { 10.0.0.1, 192.168.0.5; }; etc? 		[05:17]
cedwardsau: { 10.0.0.1; 10.0.0.2; 10.0.0.3; }; [05:18]
authanks [05:18]
....... (idle for 30mn)
***ziyourenxiang has joined #arpnetworks [05:48]
heavysixer has joined #arpnetworks
ChanServ sets mode: +o heavysixer 		[05:57]
...... (idle for 27mn)
vtoms has joined #arpnetworks [06:24]
.......... (idle for 46mn)
mrbit has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) [07:10]
..... (idle for 24mn)
LT has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving) [07:34]
................ (idle for 1h15mn)
ziyourenxiang has quit IRC (Quit: ziyourenxiang) [08:49]
.......... (idle for 49mn)
rainbow has joined #arpnetworks
rainbow is now known as Guest99101 		[09:38]
......... (idle for 40mn)
visinin has joined #arpnetworks [10:18]
vtoms has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
vtoms has joined #arpnetworks 		[10:31]
fink has joined #arpnetworks [10:42]
fink has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
fink has joined #arpnetworks 		[10:52]
BarberRonny has joined #arpnetworks [11:06]
..................... (idle for 1h41mn)
fink has quit IRC (Quit: fink) [12:47]
....... (idle for 31mn)
setienthow is everyone
out of curiosity
when will more vps space be available :) 		[13:18]
RandalSchwartzno announcement made yet
"soon" :)
"next few weeks"
have you emailed preorder@ ?
setient? 		[13:21]
setientno i should have
i mean it isn't too pressing
i have a fbsd vps from another provider 		[13:27]
RandalSchwartzok [13:28]
setientare they xen based or kvm or something else like vmware
qemu? 		[13:28]
RandalSchwartz... Our virtual machines run on Linux KVM/QEMU. KVM/QEMU provides full hardware virtualization and is not a hypervisor like Xen.
... http://arpnetworks.com/vps 		[13:28]
setienti should have read the full page i suppose [13:29]
RandalSchwartzonly if you ask *another* question that's also on that page. :) [13:29]
setientso what do you do [13:31]
RandalSchwartzme
?
right now, I'm trying to install Perl modules that depend on BerkeleyDB, which apparently isn't installed in the right place 		[13:32]
setientoh i hate that shit [13:33]
RandalSchwartzyeah
I have three versions of Perl on my laptop, and the one that I need to run $client's code of course *isn't* the one with BDB, which I need. :) 		[13:34]
setientisn't there something like rvm for perl? [13:37]
RandalSchwartzand apparently, the .a and .h files can't just be "borrowed"
what's rvm? 		[13:37]
setientruby version manager
basically allows you to install tons of different versions of ruby with different gems 		[13:37]
RandalSchwartzdunno. haven't used rvm. [13:38]
setienti don't see why you couldnt' adapt it to perl [13:38]
RandalSchwartzahh, well, I have different installations, but that's part of the problem [13:38]
setienton our production systems we got 3 versions of ruby
and dev and qa. we will prolly be adding a 4th once 1.9.x becomes stable and stuff 		[13:38]
RandalSchwartzI tried pointing this Berkeley module at the libdb area
but it doesn't seem to build right
even though the Perl built as part of that area works fine
so I'm trying to figure out what the difference is
ahh 5.8 vs 5.10
that might make a differene 		[13:39]
setientIMHO if you are on freebsd there is an easy way to do this
just have a few different ports trees installed
with different install paths 		[13:49]
RandalSchwartznot on freebsd
OSX laptop 		[13:50]
setientoh you could prolly do the same with different destdirs of the pkgsrc
netbsd's pkgsrc works on osx 		[13:52]
RandalSchwartzI have macports
that's not the one I'm having trouble with
I have a naked perl 5.10.1 tree as well
it wants BDB "installed" somwhere
and it doesn't know how to install it
so I'm trying to use the one from macports 		[13:53]
....... (idle for 30mn)
jdoelol @ production ruby [14:24]
***vtoms has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving.)
vtoms has joined #arpnetworks
Guest99101 has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection) 		[14:38]
...... (idle for 26mn)
vtoms has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving.) [15:07]
heavysixer has quit IRC (Quit: heavysixer) [15:15]
setientjdoe: lol
better than php
by miles 		[15:24]
............... (idle for 1h13mn)
***AndrewBC has quit IRC (Quit: Bye!)
AndrewBC has joined #arpnetworks 		[16:37]
..................... (idle for 1h41mn)
RandalSchwartzanything is better than PHP [18:21]
AndrewBCPHP bashing! Can I join in? [18:23]
RandalSchwartztake a number. :) [18:25]
***heavysixer has joined #arpnetworks
ChanServ sets mode: +o heavysixer 		[18:28]
AndrewBCmysql_real_escape_string(getNumber($_POST['this_all_looks_horrible']))
NO, THIS FUNCTION IS THE REAL ONE, WE PROMISE. 		[18:32]
visininhonestly though i'm starting to think that javascript is worse [18:33]
AndrewBCAndrewBC coughs and settles down [18:33]
jdoeif you want to complain there are better reasons
fwiw mysql_real_escape_string is named after a mysql function :P
better complaints are their utter lack of any sort of consistent function naming scheme. 		[18:33]
AndrewBCyeah, and all the string formatting functions were direct copies of the c functions
and yes, I portrayed that in my example ;) subtle complaint 		[18:34]
jdoe... or functions in the mysql and mysqli modules that have the same names but take different arguments in different orders. [18:34]
AndrewBCand that ()?:; is broken [18:34]
jdoeer... what's wrong with ()?:? [18:35]
AndrewBCthe ternary operator I guess it's called [18:35]
jdoeyes. [18:35]
RandalSchwartzgotta repost this - http://www.tnx.nl/php.jpg
that was my desktop for a bit :)
and no - I didn't create that
but it was based on a comment I made in some forum 		[18:36]
jdoethat's amusing.
I dunno. I don't like PHP, but when writing a web app I'd pick that over almost anything else :/ 		[18:37]
visinineh
django is pretty nice 		[18:39]
RandalSchwartzSeaside for the win [18:39]
visininchicagoboss looks fresh
oooh, speaking of which
new chicagoboss stuff, yay! 		[18:39]
RandalSchwartzonce you've *debugged* with seaside, you can't seriously go use anything else
intra-hit debugging
nothing else has it 		[18:40]
AndrewBCsorry jdoe, got distracted by pizza [18:40]
RandalSchwartzpizza *is* distracting [18:41]
AndrewBCanyway, PHP evaluates the ternary operator in the wrong order [18:41]
RandalSchwartzguy here ordered a half mexican half hawaiian pizza [18:41]
AndrewBCresulting in some craziness if you don't expect that [18:41]
RandalSchwartzI was trying to think of a place midway :)
"wrong" order? 		[18:41]
AndrewBChttp://andrewbc.pastebin.com/YfVnENpU
oh, that's supposed to be n
minor mistake 		[18:42]
RandalSchwartzthat prints uno, right? [18:43]
AndrewBCwhat would you expect that to print? [18:43]
RandalSchwartzuno [18:43]
AndrewBCnope, that prints dos, last I checked [18:43]
RandalSchwartzhow does it get to that?
expression ? false : true ? 		[18:43]
AndrewBCgood question, I'm not quite sure [18:44]
RandalSchwartznot according to the docs - The expression (expr1) ? (expr2) : (expr3) evaluates to expr2 if expr1 evaluates to TRUE, and expr3 if expr1 evaluates to FALSE.
that's what C and Perl does
so I expect it's what PHP does 		[18:44]
AndrewBCI tested it here: http://writecodeonline.com/php/
wish they had pastebin functionality with that 		[18:45]
RandalSchwartzodd - because with a single conditional, it's uno
heh - every time you evaluate that, it removes a [18:47] <RandalSchwartz> stupid website 		[18:46]
AndrewBCoh that must be what happened to my n
I didn't notice 		[18:47]
visininman it's because your nesting is wack [18:47]
AndrewBCIt defies what one would expect to happen [18:48]
visininhttp://don.gs/~will/fresh.php
http://don.gs/~will/fresh.phps
whoops don't have the content-type set right for the phps 		[18:48]
AndrewBCwhat version are you running? [18:48]
visininhttp://don.gs/~will/fresh.txt [18:48]
AndrewBCmaybe they've fixed it [18:48]
visininthe second ternary statement needs to be parenthesized
5.2.12 		[18:49]
RandalSchwartzthe second ternary shouldn't have to be
that's a bad parse 		[18:49]
visinintrue [18:49]
AndrewBCwhy, though? I mean even if they're evaluating it [18:49]
RandalSchwartztrue ? THIS : [anything here]
should pick THIS 		[18:49]
AndrewBCyeah [18:50]
visininso, huh [18:50]
AndrewBCBut anyway, if they've fixed it I guess I can't complain about that anymore [18:50]
RandalSchwartzthe real wtf is how you could get that wrong as a compiler designer :) [18:50]
AndrewBCheh [18:50]
RandalSchwartzand then you wonder what else is broken
it destroys trust 		[18:50]
visinin"I was really, really bad at writing parsers. I still am really bad at writing parsers." -- Rasmus Lerdorf [18:51]
AndrewBCyeah, I didn't really start noticing PHP's problems for a long time, because I didn't use much else. Over time it kinda starts sinking in though.
And -then- it stopped returning my calls, and that's what ended it for me. ;)
Or a sadface, this whole human emotion thing still eludes me. 		[18:52]
***visinin has quit IRC (Quit: sf) [18:56]
.......... (idle for 48mn)
jdoeYOUR NESTING IS WACK
haha.
no
my only real complaint with php
the one that I can't just suck it up and ignore
is that it treats $var['0'] and $var[0] as the same thing.
which is fundafuckingmentally broken. 		[19:44]
RandalSchwartzwell - that it treats arrays and hashes as almost the same thing is also broken
as in, they may mostly be ordered, until you introduce a key that isn't a valid array index 		[19:47]
jdoeyeah, but surely we can agree that silently unboxing the key is insane :P
not even unboxing. 		[19:49]
RandalSchwartzsince PHP has roots in Perl, I can understand '0' == 0
it's not "unboxing"
in Perl, those are both scalars
not distinct types
I think PHP works similarly 		[19:55]
jdoehrm, perl does the same thing.
how 'bout that. 		[19:59]
RandalSchwartzby design
0 and '0' aren't two different objects
this actually heralds back to awk'
which also worked that way
then again, that's the same as shell :)
or early TCL
modern TCL might distinguish them though
I never kept up after the "great unstringification" 		[20:00]
AndrewBCWhat's tha?
t* gar my T key is messed up. 		[20:02]
RandalSchwartzsome version of TCL stopped stringifying everything [20:02]
AndrewBChum [20:03]
RandalSchwartzI forget which one
as in {2 {3 4}} actually stays as a data structure
prior to that, to pass it to a subroutine, it'd flatten it as a string, then reconstruct it in the sub 		[20:03]
AndrewBCweird [20:04]
RandalSchwartzlogically, you can say it still does it that way
but realistically, it now optimizes the common cases 		[20:04]
jdoeRandalSchwartz: they should be. '0'+'0'="00" makes more sense than 0 [20:17]
RandalSchwartzabsolutely not to me
only in very broken javascript
where you're never quite sure what "a + b" might mean
so you end up jumping through hoops to "force" the left side to number or string just to get the *correct* + 		[20:18]
jdoeI'm not arguing in favour of javascript [20:19]
RandalSchwartzthat's a broken definition of + [20:19]
jdoewell it depends on how you want to define addition on strings.
concat is relatively popular for that :P 		[20:19]
RandalSchwartzonly once javascript came around
before that, I'd *never* seen that definition
and I've been around 		[20:19]
jdoeer, lisp does it that way [20:20]
RandalSchwartzreally? not original lisp
maybe some modern version 		[20:20]
jdoehrm, maybe I'm thinking of something else... [20:20]
RandalSchwartzseriously, the very *first* time I saw "string" + "string" was javascript
well, as a concat 		[20:20]
jdoehrm
no, it's elsewhere. 		[20:21]
RandalSchwartzin Awk and Perl, it was "coerce to number" [20:21]
jdoeapparently I was thinking of C++ [20:21]
RandalSchwartzsure - say where and when [20:21]
jdoelooks like...
C++, ruby, python are the big ones.
pretty sure Java does it too, now that I think of it.
... there's vbscript and php, though I'd as soon not mention those ;) 		[20:22]
RandalSchwartzwait. ruby has 'foo' + 'bar' => 'foobar'?
really? 		[20:23]
jdoeyeah
http://www.techotopia.com/index.php/Ruby_String_Concatenation_and_Comparison 		[20:23]
RandalSchwartzgah. remind me never to use ruby now
that's a WTF broken feature 		[20:23]
jdoehaha. Any time ;) [20:23]
RandalSchwartzI even occasionally despise that there's not a way to ensure that only booleans are used in tests in Perl
I don't happen to want to believe that "8" is true :)
although there are places where that makes sense 		[20:24]
jdoe8 might be an acceptable return value for true.
ie libc's read 		[20:25]
RandalSchwartzuh. why do you need that
if (read(...) > 0)
no need for
if (read(...) ) 		[20:25]
jdoewhat I was suggesting was actually
if ((x = read(...)) > 0) { ... } 		[20:26]
RandalSchwartzsure
again, the > 0 makes it more clear 		[20:26]
jdoeyeah, although to be fair I only included it because you usually want that as a three stage if/else
one for >0, one for 0, one for <0 		[20:26]
.......................... (idle for 2h9mn)
mike-burnsIt's always bugged me when people override + to be a non-commutative operation (like "foo"+"bar" # => "foobar") [22:35]
↑back Search ←Prev date Next date→ Show only urls(Click on time to select a line by its url)