[00:03] *** jcjoey3652 has joined #arpnetworks [00:04] where can i get some late night help with freebsd [00:07] jcjoey3652: Just ask away [00:07] Either here or in #freebsd :P [00:07] ##freebsd* [00:08] wey hey thanks dxtr [00:09] #freebsd seems to be locked and ##freebsd requires somekind of services [00:09] Mkay [00:09] my question is... [00:09] So go ahead and ask [00:11] i have a freebsd webserver and one of the directories has an htaccess file that point to a user file where syntax is user:hash, i cant access this site and i would like to. [00:12] i have root access [00:13] Well, either remove, move or rename the htaccess file then [00:13] Or add another user [00:14] i figured i could add another user to the user file ref'd in the ht file but i dont know how [00:14] google it :) [00:16] wouldnt know where to start, this is not the user file for the system, it is separet, dont know what to search for or i would have done that allready [00:17] its just a one line file in the home directory [00:17] what would you call that and i will gladly look it up [00:18] i keep finding things on how to add users [00:20] if you could enlight me id appreciate it, if not say so and ill leave. [00:28] ok i get it see ya lata, bro [00:28] *** jcjoey3652 has left [00:51] win 21 [00:51] Opps [00:59] *** schmir has joined #arpnetworks [01:08] *** LT has joined #arpnetworks [01:36] thats not bad [01:37] What? [01:44] delayed [01:44] his b/w etc [01:49] *** mardraum has quit IRC (Quit: .) [05:36] *** heavysixer has joined #arpnetworks [05:36] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o heavysixer [06:26] *** infrared has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) [06:32] *** cmeiklejohn has quit IRC (Quit: leaving) [06:32] *** cmeiklejohn has joined #arpnetworks [06:41] *** vtoms has joined #arpnetworks [06:42] *** ziyourenxiang has joined #arpnetworks [07:18] *** cmeiklejohn has quit IRC (Changing host) [07:18] *** cmeiklejohn has joined #arpnetworks [08:08] *** schmir has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection) [08:43] *** mick_laptop has quit IRC (Changing host) [08:43] *** mick_laptop has joined #arpnetworks [08:58] *** ziyourenxiang has quit IRC (Quit: ziyourenxiang) [08:59] *** sentabi has joined #arpnetworks [09:18] *** LT has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving) [09:23] *** AndrewBC has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) [09:25] *** AndrewBC has joined #arpnetworks [10:27] *** AndrewBC has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) [10:27] *** AndrewBC has joined #arpnetworks [11:12] hrm [11:12] up_the_irons? [11:12] there? [11:12] i got something you'll want :) [11:13] makes it uber ez to setup fbsd boxes [11:13] we wrote a pimp perl script [11:13] even gave it colors [11:13] hehe [11:22] just msg me when u wake man [11:23] i'll hoook it up [11:35] *** visinin has joined #arpnetworks [11:36] *** Ehtyar has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection) [11:37] *** Ehtyar has joined #arpnetworks [12:51] Ooh pretty colors. [13:54] *** visinin has quit IRC (Quit: word) [14:10] mhoran: mrbit didn't say pretty colors, could be all teal on red or something like that [14:10] or purple on blue [14:10] http://www.tell-tale.net/web101/colors.htm [14:11] bad times [14:16] *** schmir has joined #arpnetworks [14:23] *** schmir has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) [14:25] *** schmir has joined #arpnetworks [14:36] *** vtoms has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection) [14:36] *** vtoms has joined #arpnetworks [15:56] *** vtoms has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving.) [16:02] everyone get their FreeBSD boxes patched after last nites advisories? [16:08] *** sentabi is now known as sentabi[] [16:09] ooh i forgot to read up on that [16:09] *** bob__ is now known as bob^^ [16:09] *** sentabi| has joined #arpnetworks [16:10] *** sentabi| is now known as sentabi [16:11] *** sentabi[] has quit IRC () [16:21] jail, opie and nfs..something. [16:21] *** sentabi has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection) [16:21] the link in the email for opie was broken though [16:22] :( [16:22] jail is a biggy [16:22] oh, only applies to 8 [16:22] yeah [16:22] I patched that one right away [16:23] in fact my only 8 box is my arp vps :) [16:24] I'm having trouble rebuilding world on my test VPS for some reason :( [16:26] oooh yeah... freebsd-update actually woke up! [16:29] zfs snapshot -r zroot@pre-patch-3 [16:30] gotta love that [16:30] if it screws up - just roll back [16:30] RandalSchwartz: I don't understand what I'm doing wrong. When I run snapshot, and then navigate to /.zfs/snapshot, it is empty. [16:30] are you booting from zfs? [16:31] RandalSchwartz: yessir. per your suggestion. [16:31] did you make a snapshot of zroot ? [16:32] zfs snapshot zroot@somethinghere [16:32] I guess I've only ever done things like: zfs snapshot zroot@$(date).. [16:32] should result in /.zfs/snapshot/ ... [16:32] *** sentabi has joined #arpnetworks [16:32] and I have that directory structure, but it's empty. [16:33] I've tried doing zfs snapshot zroot/path/to/jail@$(date) and it remains the same. [16:34] run roh. I can ping, but none of my services are up [16:35] time to dig out the console login instructions [16:35] ahh - it just took a few minutes [16:35] now we're live [16:36] is zroot/path/to/jail show up in "zfs list" ? [16:36] you have to use the names that are there [16:38] RandalSchwartz: zfs list - zroot/usr/jails/bodie [16:39] RandalSchwartz: so I want a snapshot of that jail, I tried: zfs snapshot zroot/usr/jails/bodie@$(date), or is that incorrect? [16:39] your shell undersands $(date) ? [16:40] oh wait - date has spaces in it [16:40] that's not gonna work [16:40] date +%F [16:43] do I have to have specifically enabled OPIE to be vulnerable ? [16:43] doesn't look like I've done that [16:44] what am I missing here? http://pastebin.com/1kcsS529 [16:44] ahh - I see it.. yeah. enabled by default [16:45] I thought opie was enabled by default, but the nfs vuln was not. [16:45] cedwards - no, the .zfs is in the root of the filesystem [16:45] so you need to look in /usr/jails/bodie/.zfs [16:45] that's because the .zfs is per filesystem [16:46] ahhh. there we go. [16:47] and snapshots are cow, yes? so it only takes the space that has changed? [16:47] doesn't include additions to the source, but changes or removals [16:48] yes... it shares as many blocks as it can with history and future [16:48] one copy to rule them all [16:48] I have about 100 snapshots right now of my system [16:48] managed by an automatic daemon [16:49] I just did a du -sh in my .zfs/snapshot/2010-05-27 and it was 300M [16:49] that surprised me..? [16:49] sure - to "du" it shows the entire thing [16:49] because it must [16:49] I suppose that makes sense.. [16:50] and if you made a second snapshot, that too would be 300M [16:50] du can't ask the fs "what's the real chargable space" [16:50] du *is* smart enough to know that the same inode seen repeatedly is charged once [16:50] but this is below the inode leel [16:50] level [16:50] but they wouldn't really be 300M as they are referring to the original 300M? [16:50] so is there a way to tell how large the snapshots actually are? [16:51] if you deleted all other snapshots, this one remaining snapshot would be 300M :) [16:51] zfs list -ospace -tsnapshot -r zroot [16:51] that tells what the OS is keeping roughly associated with each snapshot [16:51] but keep in mind, any shared block doesn't go away until the last snapshot referencing it is gone [16:52] so does it really "belong" to a *particular* snapshot? no. [16:52] I see a couple snapshots that I don't recall making.. [16:52] zroot/usr/jails/basejail@20100422_18:58:03 - 17K [16:53] zroot/usr/jails/basejail@20100520_11:11:48 - 229M [16:53] might have been when you built the jails [16:53] ezjail is zfs aware [16:53] ohh, I did activate that in ezjail.conf [16:54] and I created my jails using 'ezjail-admin create -i -s XG -c zfs name IP' [16:57] *** schmir has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection) [16:59] interesting http://alblue.bandlem.com/2008/11/crontab-generated-zfs-snapshots.html [16:59] Yeah - I use that [17:00] that specifically? [17:00] portinstall zfs-snapshot-mgmt [17:00] it's in ports [17:00] sadly, it uses ruby. [17:00] but I got over that, because it works [17:00] ruby *shudder* [17:00] I have 10 minute snapshots for 2 hours [17:00] then hour snapshots for 2 days [17:01] then day snapshots for 2 weeks [17:01] then week snapshots forevery [17:01] occasionally, I delete one if I know I made a lot of changes and won't need those later [17:02] I'm really disappointed at the blatant use of backticks in that post [17:02] but the nice thing is, by default, I have a lot of ways to undo a mistake [17:03] I'm using the concept, not the specifics there [17:03] I use the ruby thing instead [17:09] RandalSchwartz: fuck port*, fuck ruby. I wouldn't bitch so much if they didn't explode every freakin' time ruby was one of the upgraded packages :) [17:09] ... or how portupgrade has suddenly decided not to bother with dependencies, so I have to keep running the upgrade until everything succeeds [17:10] (that's probably not ruby-related, I just wanted to get it off my chest.) [17:10] yeah [17:10] I've had "issues" too [17:10] no port system can ever work perfectly [17:10] one of the reasons I stick with portmaster is that it doesn't require ruby. [17:10] if I see ruby, I upgrade it by hand :) [17:11] cd /usr/ports/*/ruby; make config install [17:11] cedwards: silly personal biases prevent me from that. Shell scripts feel like a quick hack, something in a 'real' language, even if that language is ruby, feels more durable. [17:11] ... even though it clearly isn't. [17:11] ruby is better than c-shell, that's for sure [17:12] RandalSchwartz: suppose you're updating something like... trac is what comes to mind. New version of trac pushed out, means new plugins which all depend on it etc. [17:12] portupgrade, for me, will upgrade trac and then skip everything else. [17:12] I figure if sh can manage the init system and all the cron scripting that keep things running, it's good enough to manage ports too. [17:12] which is decidedly irritating behaviour that it never used to do. [17:12] cedwards: bear in mind that init scripts and cron are basically "run this" [17:12] ... and whatever it runs is what really does the heavy lifting. [17:13] in both of those uses sh is more the glue that holds real programs together :P [17:13] but most of the "run these" are shell scripts. [17:13] sh/bash and perl are the duct tape that hold the internet together [17:13] indeed [17:13] *** visinin has joined #arpnetworks [17:14] I use portmaster -atd to upgrade all, plus dependencies and delete previous versions. [17:14] hasn't failed me yet.. [17:14] portupgrade -aRrv *used* to do that for me. [17:14] now it's hit-or-miss and for no obvious reason. [17:17] actually, one of the main reasons I looked for and found portmaster is that my machines are old and slow. [17:18] having that additional dependency of ruby18, rubydb, etc just took too long to keep updated. [17:18] portmaster was quick, had no depends and is included in the Handbook. Seemed like a good solution for me. [17:19] there are options in portinstall/portupgrade that aren't in portmaster though [17:20] and once it gets fired up, it's a lot faster [17:24] RandalSchwartz: this seems to also display snapshots: zfs list -t all [17:26] although I'm not sure what REFER means\ [17:26] yes - -t all includes -t snapshot [17:27] "man zfs" :) [17:27] yeah. there's quite a bit in there. [17:27] if I recall, the space is charged to the *first* snapshot that uses it [17:28] so if it also happens to be shared with later ones, they don't show it [17:29] I'd like to figure out how to shrink a zfs that I'm currently using for a jail. [17:29] I'm not smart about jails yet [17:32] * cedwards feels like he has a lot of questions this evening. [17:32] is there an equivalent to portsnap for /usr/src? [17:34] freebsd-update goes from release to release [17:34] csup if you're following -current [17:35] but that's binary update vs src and compiled, isn't it? [17:35] freebsd-update moves you to a new release (now -p3) [17:35] and also updates the /usr/src tree [17:35] if you're doing something besides -RELEASE, you need csup [17:36] my servers are running 8.0-RELEASE [17:36] I'm following RELENG_8_0. [17:37] is that the same as release? [17:37] which is 8.0-RELEASE-p3 currently, but I build everything in /usr/src [17:37] ahh - yeah, so you could have been using freebsd-update [17:37] I like the idea of compiling everything, and I have some things I filter out. [17:39] I guess, if you're not compiling, you do jails in the same way? [17:39] I use 'ezjail-admin update -i' to move my built world into basejail. [17:39] if you're doing binary updates, I guess it puts the same snapshot in, just using a different ezjail-update option? [17:48] *** infrared has joined #arpnetworks [17:49] up_the_irons: you around? [17:50] maybe [17:51] james (the guy who pays for our servers) needs to update his credit card info [17:51] email support? [17:51] http://support.arpnetworks.com/faqs/billing/how-do-i-update-my-credit-card-billing-information [17:51] * amdprophet facepalms [17:51] sorry [17:51] i love it when i can pull a faq entry verbatim [17:51] ;) [17:51] haha [17:52] owned [17:52] actually... i should have a bot for that [17:52] i see those all the time in, like, ##linux [17:52] ;) [17:52] there's a nice ruby gem for irc bots [17:52] ruby-- [17:52] * infrared runs [17:52] just make it search for any sentence with a question mark and have it say RTFM [17:52] up_the_irons: any idea when you will be doing my upgrade? [17:52] haha [17:53] infrared: you said I could take it down whenever, right? I can do it tonight then [17:54] up_the_irons: no rush, tonight will be fine. take it down whenever you want. right now I'm just using it to rysnc my ~/dev [17:54] * infrared hugs is ~/dev [17:54] his* [17:54] infrared: ok [17:54] up_the_irons: do you offer opensuse? [17:55] infrared: not officially, but I could boot the install media if anyone wants to install it manually [17:56] is it me, or is dovecot WAAAAAAY faster that courier-imap ? [17:56] sounds like more work that it's worth. [17:56] up_the_irons: are you a qmail user? [17:56] infrared: was, just switched to postfix [17:56] postfix for me [17:57] the patching is insane [17:57] patching? [17:57] qmail's patching [17:57] to make it work? [17:57] i suppose [17:57] is it that unportable? [17:57] no, for features i suppose [17:57] postfix is nearly out of the box [17:58] having to patch for every feature is what eventually drove me away from qmail. I just don't have time for that. [17:58] up_the_irons: no, dovecot is way faster than courier imap. [17:58] yeah - I use postfix+dovecot [17:58] dovecot + postfix is a great combination. [17:59] I read 85% of the postfix manual cover to cover, and I must say, it is quite awesome [17:59] jdoe: nice [17:59] I also read almost the whole Dovecot wiki, and it is also pretty cool [18:00] the problem I find is, between the two of them, the number of config options is nearly infinite. [18:00] so many possible ways to setup a mail server. makes it hard to find quality guides online. [18:01] my only beef with dovecot is the weird quantum state of sieve. [18:01] yeah, that's true, which is why I just went with the standard Postfix docs. Once you have a solid base understanding, you can quickly identify which guides are for you and which are not [18:01] I guess it'll be in the next major release, but last time I built it it was annoying. [18:02] jdoe: yeah, I'm not using sieve [18:02] I'm using managesieve and I love server-side filtering [18:05] I have no strong feelings either way, getting it working the first time sucked though. [18:05] ugh! my buildworld keeps failing on lib32 stuff. [18:05] I thought I solved this problem [18:05] dovecot or sieve? I found dovecot itself to be breeze; although I did just come from the qmail world, where everything is a BITCH [18:06] i liked qmail because vpopmail is easy [18:06] I'm glad that I initially learned on dovecot and postfix. [18:07] I started with qmail [18:07] postfix was a step up. [18:07] I took one look at sendmail's m4 bullshit and said no thanks. [18:08] when I used to teach Linux (Red Hat) we'd cover postfix and sendmail. [18:08] rule #1 of sendmail: use postfix, and I'd skip the chapter ;) [18:09] I was also a security nerd too. [18:09] ... I still am, to some extent, but then I wouldn't have touched sendmail with my 10 foot wang. [18:09] hahahaha [18:10] *** visinin has quit IRC (Quit: home) [18:10] jdoe: let me guess. you use openbsd and djbdns too? :) [18:10] I used to use djbdns, yeah. [18:11] never used openbsd until now. I side with that slashdot article :P [18:11] which one? [18:11] djbnix [18:11] thre's only one? :) [18:11] RandalSchwartz: it occurs to me that it wasn't actually a slashdot article, it was a thread on the 4.7 release article [18:11] the one that says openbsd isn't super-duper secure? [18:11] that's the one, yeah. [18:12] or rather, that openbsd's process isn't conducive to security. [18:12] I'm sure they go to a lot of trouble to audit every piece of code, but if you're just as (in)secure as the next guy as soon as you install a port.. what's the difference? [18:18] my issue is more with the NIH syndrome they have. [18:18] I mean, fine, if you want to claim you came up with w^x independently of PaX, despite them having posted on the mailing lists like... a year before... well, fine, that's kinda douche-y but whatever. [18:19] but if you're going to reimplement it *worse*? [18:20] granted they have developed some cool stuff [18:21] No other *BSD has originated more apps that are now mainstream than OpenBSD, despite not many people using the OS itself. OpenSSH, is ubiquitous. pf is another great example. [18:22] cedwards: if you say systrace I'm going to smack you ;) [18:22] up_the_irons: sure. openssh, openbgpd, openntpd, etc. are all great. [18:22] jdoe: what thread? was it that guy bitching that openbsd is insecure because it has no MAC controls? [18:22] up_the_irons: same article, I think. [18:23] yeah i read that one [18:23] although I don't think he bothered with the pax vs. w^x nonsense. [18:23] jdoe: I was referring to the open* apps, like up_the_irons listed. [18:24] actually, is openntpd better than ntpd? I've read it isn't as accurate [18:24] that's questionable. [18:24] my understanding is that under some circumstances it might not be, but even then the difference is so minor as to be pedantic. [18:24] I know it lets you bind to an ip:port, which ntpd does not, but so far that is the biggest difference I've seen. [18:25] I think I stick with ntpd mainly because it's part of base. if I can use something from base over a port, I prefer to. [18:25] it's just time people [18:25] sheesh [18:26] o/~ if I could save time... in a bottle... o/~ [18:26] what was the original reason behind creating openntpd? or was it simply NIH? [18:27] infrared: spoken like someone who's never needed to care :) [18:27] cedwards: security [18:28] jdoe: we have 1 time server accessing the internet in a DMZ, every other internal server hits that one....so.. i don't really care [18:29] we use two internally, although I keep pushing for another. [18:29] "a man with two watches is never sure what time it is", as they say. [18:29] heh [18:29] yeah - I was going there [18:29] damn you beat me [18:30] looking for someone to trade two Samsung 22s for a 30" msg me kthx [18:30] :( i'm tired of dual monitors [18:30] you have a 30"? [18:30] no, i want a 30 [18:30] but, sadly, my personal infrastructure is often more HA and redundant than that at work. [18:30] i have two 22s [18:30] hard to tell [18:30] lol [18:30] I guess that's what happens when you don't have Project managers in your way. [18:31] "here's $10 for your wife." "okay, seems like a fair trade." [18:31] cedwards: yep it is [18:31] cedwards: the more I venture in the "supported/commerical" world, the more I realize how much those companies/products suck [18:31] I've got an R900 (16cpu, 64G RAM) machine just sitting in the rack because the Project Managers can't decide what to do with it. [18:32] cedwards: we have board members that don't a thing about computers making decisions [18:32] I wonder why the hell is it any of their business. They should be facilitating, not decision making. [18:32] let the boots on the ground decide what they need, and let them make it happen. [18:32] cedwards: they can ship it to me if they can't figure out what to do with it ;) [18:32] hah [18:32] so, in the interim I'm running F@H on that beast until they decide. [18:33] cedwards: and we're about to go from GroupWise to Exchange because the CEO "doesn't like it".. .and she doesn't care that it's an extra $250K [18:33] up_the_irons [18:33] idiots [18:33] did u see the msg i left for u [18:33] ? [18:33] ok i'm done venting [18:34] mrbit: yeah, you can email it to me if you like; but I think I have the easiest way to deploy a FreeBSD server already ;) [18:34] it's like, all automated [18:34] and stuff [18:34] well, maybe a little copy & paste [18:34] but i don't do any manual config [18:34] up_the_irons: does it have a turbo button? [18:35] infrared: turbo *and* an "11" [18:35] ll? [18:35] 11+ [18:35] "It goes to 11" [18:36] infrared: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0088258/ [18:36] up_the_irons: ... er, to update an expiry date for billing info, do I open a ticket or...? [18:36] http://support.arpnetworks.com/faqs/billing/how-do-i-update-my-credit-card-billing-information [18:37] another one! [18:37] jdoe: I think we've been over this http://support.arpnetworks.com/faqs/billing/how-do-i-update-my-credit-card-billing-information [18:37] woo [18:37] infrared: the software we write (and our customers) are very time sensitive. [18:37] haha [18:37] jinx? [18:37] * infrared wants an "It's in the wiki" shirt [18:37] jdoe: if it is easier to just email the new exp date, that is fine too [18:37] infrared: this, more specifically - http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0088258/quotes?qt0261726 [18:39] I LOL at that every time [18:39] you have to imagine the british accent too [18:39] * cedwards wonders if that is streamed on his netflix account. [18:53] up_the_irons: CVV changed too, fuck it, order form is safer. [18:53] :) [19:09] this looks very promising toward my using FreeBSD on my desktop. http://chromium.jaggeri.com/ [19:09] i loves me some chromium [19:14] *** heavysixer has quit IRC (Quit: heavysixer) [19:21] *** visinin has joined #arpnetworks [19:35] ok [19:35] thats what this other guy told me [19:35] at least you said it nicely [19:35] :) [19:35] i like this.. [19:35] everything tweaked one ach box the way u want it [19:35] witih COLORS! [19:35] :P [23:15] shrug.