mrbit: damn... I think i'm picking that one up tomorrow jdoe: yawn.
1850s are okay. mrbit: i could probably talk him down 250 on that jdoe: dell's lights-out shit sucks ass though (and I'm not even sure if it's on those offhand) mrbit: maybe 2 amdprophet: i built my quad core xeon (x3360) rig for like $600, brand new
mind you, it's not rackmount mrbit: i likerackmount
takes up less space nice and neat amdprophet: yea they're cool mrbit: man i need to quit fucking around and get back to work so i can get some sleep
its beenn fun amdprophet: i've got a few rackmount boxes, dual xeon 2.8, dual g5 xserve mrbit: ttyl amdprophet: lates ***: AndrewBC has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
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Guest11764 has joined #arpnetworks Guest11764: Sorry if I'm late to the game, but is anyone else having trouble getting to their VPS?
(This is mike-burns .) amdprophet: let me see
i can get to both Guest11764: Oh I can get in now. mike-burns: Weird. ***: Guest11764 has quit IRC (Client Quit) -: amdprophet goes to sleep amdprophet: 5:27 am... mike-burns: Nice and early. ***: cmeiklejohn has quit IRC (Quit: leaving)
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cmeiklejohn has joined #arpnetworks RandalSchwartz: still chuckling last night that he confused me for being some official rep, and just wouldn't shake that notion loose
and if he's *not* 17, he definitely stopped maturing about then. :) ***: heavysixer has joined #arpnetworks
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vtoms has joined #arpnetworks schmir: I sometimes can't connect to my vps via ssh. http/https work fine. anyone else noticed that? mtve: nope Wraithan: RandalSchwartz: looks more like you were getting confused, not him mhoran: schmir: I believe there's a rate limit on SSH, perhaps that's what you're hitting? RandalSchwartz: Wraithan - I was clearly not confused.
he was addressing me like I worked for ARP
even after I told him twice Wraithan: RandalSchwartz: he was addressing the channel, and even explained that schmir: mhoran: can't imagine. I can't connect for 5 minutes... Wraithan: RandalSchwartz: you were the one being confused bob^^: tbh i thought that too
trouble with irc i guess, easy to misunderstand/misread :) awyeah: morning. AndrewBC: Hiyo RandalSchwartz: no... he was chatting with me, and said "on your website"?
clearly, he thought, and continued to think, that I was staff. Wraithan: That was an initial misuderstanding
but he wasn't thinking that after you said you weren't staff bob^^: i think it was just an unlucky turn of phrase to use
i think he expected someone from ARP would read back up their log and see it RandalSchwartz: no - it continued after that.
... <mrbit> i was rly looking forward to getting one of the vps' tonight but i'll - just get one when you guys get some more in
again.. ."you guys" Wraithan: he was making general statements due to the fact that this channel is ARP's channel, so speaking in the plural you is natural bob^^: yeah, i think it's just general usage Wraithan: yeah bob^^: i'd do the same tbh
and i wouldn't mean it in the way you've taken it
either way RandalSchwartz: I'm sorry... when I'm chatting *with* people, I presume I'm talking *to them*.
Call it a human trait. Wraithan: RandalSchwartz: did he tag your name on the front of the message? bob^^: i don't think he was talking to you RandalSchwartz: so if I say "you" here, it's Wraithan and bob.
not Arp
that's a very human thing to expect Wraithan: RandalSchwartz: if not, it wasn't directed only at you bob^^: you're right on that, but i think he was directing his comments at the channel (ARP) rather than you
hehe
symantics of language... fun :) RandalSchwartz: then he should have said "when arp gets more boxes"
not "when you get more boxes" bob^^: lol @ my typo
semantics, even :) RandalSchwartz: I mean seriously, have we really ruined communication skills that far? coil: maybe he was drunk or something Wraithan: it is a plural you dude, it is part of our language, other languages have a more explitic plural you that isn't confused with singular you AndrewBC: And the world makes fun of Texas for "y'all" RandalSchwartz: even with plural you... to mean it means "the people currently participating in the conversaion"
even if I said "y'all" right now, it'd be the four people who have spoken here in the past few minutes
not the 25 idlers bob^^: why not the idlers too Wraithan: to you, to him he obviously (and explained as such) meant the company RandalSchwartz: because they're not talking bob^^: what happens if you drop into a channel and go 'hey yall'
you wouldn't be aware of who had just been talking before you joined
so... you'd be addressing everyone RandalSchwartz: I'd expect it to mean the same thing as if I did that in real life bob^^: all depends on context :) RandalSchwartz: which initially would be "everyone in the room" AndrewBC: you'd be addressing the current active people implicitly Wraithan: 20:34:18 RandalSchwartz │ who the hell are you talking to?
20:34:27 mrbit │ the arp staff RandalSchwartz: but if people start talking to me, the focus narrows Wraithan: 20:34:33 RandalSchwartz │ yeah, they aren't here
20:34:35 RandalSchwartz │ not right now
20:34:41 mrbit │ yeah well i'm sure they'll see it later randal bob^^: ^^ that
he assumed they'd scroll back RandalSchwartz: correct, and that means he should stop using "you" to mean "them" bob^^: which is probably not an unreasonable assumption, and he was polite enough about it too
anyway, moot point RandalSchwartz: since to me "you" is "me" bob^^: he's gone now RandalSchwartz: if you're talking bob^^: so hey ho coil: hes still here -: bob^^ goes back to doing something useful coil: idling bob^^: oh hehe :) AndrewBC: .... waiting -: bob^^ waves AndrewBC: ready to pounce
on ... YOU -: RandalSchwartz goes back to preparing for FLOSS Weekly coil: yeah i refered him to arp bob^^: eep! coil: because i've had great service Wraithan: RandalSchwartz: your rules surrounding English aren't the only ones. bob^^: me too coil :D coil: but i wish people wouldn't speak for the company that aren't staff Wraithan: I can see plainly why he used you, though you are correct that he could have been less ambiguous coil: and make someone lose business bob^^: well hopefully your friend will still use ARP
:) mhoran: RandalSchwartz: I floss daily.
Har har. AndrewBC: hee hee RandalSchwartz: yeah, never heard THAT one before bob^^: :D ***: LT has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving)
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schmir has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection) dxtr: Okay
I'm about to do my last course now!
The second course in Local Networks
o bob^^: easy stuff :D dxtr: :D
Hmm... Five common operating systems for servers
GNU/Linux, FreeBSD, OpenBSD.. Windows Server? RandalSchwartz: solaris
hpux dxtr: I'll go with HPUX :) RandalSchwartz: solaris is more prevalet
prevalent
since it came out earlier dxtr: Don't hate RandalSchwartz: eh? dxtr: :) RandalSchwartz: just trying to be accurate dxtr: Hehe RandalSchwartz: if you don't need accuracy, just make things up dxtr: Well, doesn't say any specific
Just "Five common server operating systems"
I'm going to write up on their history, differences and s tuff
Piece of cake (Wich is why I saved this for last) RandalSchwartz: oh yes, there's the Cake operating system. :) -: RandalSchwartz ducks dxtr: That would be awesome
Huge splash screen saying "The cake is a lie" or something when one boots it RandalSchwartz: oh yeah, and PortalOS(tm) jdoe: pfft
IRIX
hmm -: jdoe gives Padre a shot. jdoe: http://is.gd/cqg4S had some neat things I'd never heard of before. dxtr: Hmm
About OpenBSd
I've never gotten this: Wikipedia says FreeBSD is a UNIX-like operating system, but OpenBSD a derivative
Isn't it same-same? :P
Because as far as I understand FreeBSD is a derivative too ***: heavysixer has quit IRC (Quit: BAMPF!)
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schmir has joined #arpnetworks cedwards: I don't know about the derivative comment, but I understand they have to say 'UNIX-like' because of a trademark on the term 'UNIX'
unless you pay the piper you can't call yourself 'UNIX' (something OS X has done) dxtr: ahha cedwards: ..at least that is my understanding. I have been wrong before. RandalSchwartz: both obsd and fbsd are in the same camp
and both are derived from real unix, so I'd call them "derivative"
where I'd call linux "unix like" since it shares no original code ***: heavysixer has joined #arpnetworks
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AndrewBC has joined #arpnetworks jdoe: RandalSchwartz: er... can't imagine fbsd/obsd still have original code since proper unix licensing restrictions are, er, more restrictive than the BSD license. ***: vinnyt has joined #arpnetworks RandalSchwartz: they have "real" BSD code
I consider BSD to be "real" unix, because that's how it was shipped
as in, it was inherently blessed by AT&T before AT&T turned over the trademark to the Open group jdoe: er
my understanding is that FreeBSD (and the rest) were descended from BSD
a very big deal was made of BSD not containing any AT&T code. RandalSchwartz: yes.. but it contains code that was shipped in something that was full-out called "unix" jdoe: er, sorry, BSDi ***: vinnyt has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) RandalSchwartz: whether it has any AT&T code doesn't matter at that point
so originally, unix = "just at&t"
for a while, unix = "at&t + bsdi"
now freebsd = "bsdi + other"
so yes, I consider freebsd to be real unix, since it contains parts that were shipped accurately under the unix label
even if they didn't come from at&t
nothing on the linux side can claim that
hence, linux = "unix-like" amdprophet: RandalSchwartz: you were saying you use HE's tunnelbroker on openbsd right? RandalSchwartz: I had, yes.
no wait.
I used sixxs with openbsd
now I'm using HE with Airport Extreme
but I *could* have used HE with openbsd
it's just that I already had sixxs
sixxs predated HE amdprophet: ahhh gotcha
i'm having issues with it, it's probably PF getting in the way but... RandalSchwartz: yeah... pf is gonna be crazy
outer rules for the ipv4 jdoe: which is the one that provides a bare tunnel and which requires a client? RandalSchwartz: inner rules for the ipv6
sixxs needs a gif interface
he configures just fine with airport extreme jdoe: ah ***: cmeiklejohn has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) toddf: pf and HE works fine on OpenBSD, I have several systems tunneling to HE from OpenBSD
you need to understand that on the physical interface 'inet proto ipv6' is what must be passed for gif(4) to work, and then separately filtering v6 on the gif(4) interface jdoe: ... wow the Mojolicious test suite is garbage
why on earth would testing apache cgi/fastcgi require osx... why on earth is it trying to listen to (and connect on) a privileged port... eesh. cedwards: all of that sounds very "Ruby" to me, although I'm not familiar with Mojolicious. ***: AndrewBC has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) jdoe: it appears to just be one of my favorite CPAN complaints. Everything works fine on Linux, someone is likely deciding all the world's GNU... dxtr: hm, how did one easily calculate the amount of addresses in an ipv6 subnet? 2^(128-subnet)+
?
My mind is blank at the moment :P up_the_irons: dxtr: yes dxtr: Where does the 2 come from?
do* up_the_irons: power of 2 dxtr: Yeah, what I thought up_the_irons: don't ask that if you're taking computer classes
or i will hit you with a noob stick dxtr: Haha :D
I'm doing my report in Local Networks B ***: AndrewBC has joined #arpnetworks up_the_irons: LOLZ
$ make search key=dspam
Port: dspam-3.8.0p0-sqlite3
Path: mail/dspam,sqlite3
Info: anti-spam filter
Maint: Todd T. Fries <todd@OpenBSD.org>
...
toddf is a popular guy dxtr: :D up_the_irons: toddf: so do you prefer dspam over, say, spamassassin? I've run dspam for several years on Linux, and liked it quite a bit, but now that I'm redoing my mail server in OpenBSD, I'm revisiting spamassassin / amavis-new just b/c there is so much "support" for it (easy to find docs / how-tos) DaCa: ever compared the load generated by those two? jdoe: up_the_irons: my experience with dspam is that it's (of course) much faster and less unpleasant with ram than perl, and more accurate given a large enough corpus and effort to keep it trained. up_the_irons: DaCa: dspam used a lot less resources
jdoe: yeah that's basically my experience too. training kinda sucks though DaCa: up_the_irons: indeed :) jdoe: up_the_irons: training isn't *that* bad if it's just you. up_the_irons: DaCa: what do you use? jdoe: setting up training for multiple users is a pain though.
... and then you have to figure out if you want a global data set, per-user training, etc.
which is why I always bitch out and use SA ;) up_the_irons: jdoe: yeah, i'd need a multi-user setup. i mean, why not have my training benefit the whole server
jdoe: haha yeah ***: vtoms has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving.) jdoe: fwiw if you get dspam's web thing working properly, that's not bad.
but that sucks if you have multiple domains
awww weak. Mojolicious doesn't play nice with taint mode :/ DaCa: up_the_irons: OpenBSD spamd (greylisting+bob beckÃ's spamtrap list+dnswl.org whitelist)and vgrep :) up_the_irons: jdoe: i had dspam's web thing working nicely, but it was pretty slow after a lot of spam signatures were archived over the years jdoe: there's some maintenance job that has to run periodically to prune old signatures.
I forget the option offhand, I haven't used dspam in a while. DaCa: I have been saying for more than 5 years that whenever vgrep gets too harsh I'll add dspam to the mix but didn't feel the necessity yet jdoe: vgrep? DaCa: visual grep RandalSchwartz: I recall inventing that term 25 years ago
nice to see it come back ground
although might just be a parallel invention ***: cmeiklejohn has joined #arpnetworks
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cmeiklejohn has joined #arpnetworks RandalSchwartz: <<== old fogey up_the_irons: DaCa: what is "bob beckÃ's spamtrap list"? DaCa: RandalSchwartz: dict shows it both in the jargon file and foldoc RandalSchwartz: do they quote me? :) dxtr: I'm officially done with everything now RandalSchwartz: your life is over? dxtr: Now I'll just have to wait and see if the teachers say I've missed something
Yeah, high school is my life
:( RandalSchwartz: oh. not *everything* dxtr: Btw guys
One thing. How the hell would I trace an IP if my webpage had a poll that got spammed? DaCa: up_the_irons: uatraps in the default spamd.conf, itÃ'sa list which blacklists spammers caught at the university of alberta using greytrapping (also a function of spamd) for 24 hours RandalSchwartz: "trace"? dxtr: Doesn't say if it's distributed or not RandalSchwartz: whois -a "10.1.1.1" dxtr: RandalSchwartz: Like, find the perpetrator so one can report it to the ISP DaCa: up_the_irons: bob beck is an openbsd dev and admin there RandalSchwartz: that'll tell you who owns the IP
from there, it's up to getting cooperation from them dxtr: RandalSchwartz: But what if it's distributed? RandalSchwartz: "distributed"? dxtr: Like a botnet spammed my poll RandalSchwartz: Oh. good luck
not a chance dxtr: That's what I thought :) RandalSchwartz: you *did* have a captcha, right? dxtr: uhm.. yeah... ofcourse :P RandalSchwartz: if not, there's your lesson for next time dxtr: It's an assignment, RandalSchwartz RandalSchwartz: what's an assignment? dxtr: Like.. school stuff RandalSchwartz: I mean, how is a poll an assignment? up_the_irons: DaCa: oh oik dxtr: The school assignment is about tracing IP-addresses up_the_irons: *ok RandalSchwartz: ahh.
so the answer is... "too bad"
botnets are highly sophisticated now
that's why spam is outta control up_the_irons: DaCa: default spamd.conf in which openbsd version? I have 4.6 and there is no /etc/spamd.conf.. dxtr: The assignment is: "Your boss have discovered a spam attack on your companys poll on the website. And now he wants to get the perpetrator (Is it called perpetrator, btw?). How do one do that? How do you get the IP? How do you trace an IP once you got it?"
I'm saying "Check the logs, do an whois <ip>"
But.. WHY IS THIS A GROUP ASSIGNMENT? up_the_irons: dxtr: yeah, that's pretty much the basics RandalSchwartz: oh - that's not a botnet
that's a single IP DaCa: up_the_irons: isn't it in /etc/mail? RandalSchwartz: and yes, whois -a that.addr
and follow up with the owners of that IP dxtr: RandalSchwartz: It doesn't specifically say so :p RandalSchwartz: well - in one case, you might have a solution
in another, you can't
which do you think you got assigned? :) dxtr: But still, I just asked if there's a way to find some source if it's distributed RandalSchwartz: unless he's just trying to tweak you dxtr: :) up_the_irons: DaCa: oh duh, thanks! -: RandalSchwartz goes back to worrying about whether he's presenting at LA.pm tonight or not dxtr: But how do these botnet guys sometimes get caught anway
anyway* RandalSchwartz: the botnet people have to convert on the other side
it's like drug running
at some point, you have to connect with customers
and exchange things for money dxtr: Ah, right RandalSchwartz: botnet operations are highly sophisticated and international, just like drug trafficking
but it all comes down to making a profit
and that's nearly always the weak link
or you have someone in your org that turns on you dxtr: cool RandalSchwartz: because you piss them off or don't pay them on time
so yeah, the parallels are quite obvious once you think about it
the only difference is the actual product
since the product in both cases is pretty much internationally illegal, although to varying degrees dxtr: Yeah
So that's how they get caught. I thought it was years and years of international investigation after a DDoS that leads to a conviction
:p RandalSchwartz: and to report the sophistication of these guys... their command-and-contact domain names are often based on the tweeting trends list dxtr: like, pseudo-randomness? RandalSchwartz: as in... a bot wakes up, pulls the tweeting trends, computes a hash value from that, contacts hashvalue.org
and gets its next instruction
it's hard to get in the middle of that dxtr: :D RandalSchwartz: especially when a successful contact will then transmit a new hashvalue computation
so if you haven't been in touch from the beginning, good luck dxtr: :
:) RandalSchwartz: as I said - sophisticated stuff dxtr: By the way, RandalSchwartz. Speaking of FLOSS weekly
Downloaded episode 120 - and that guy in the beginning is hot! Anyway, do you have a way of like.. downloading EVERY episode?
Or do I have to click through every single episode? :D
No, I can't watch one episode. I'll have to see every one! RandalSchwartz: pull down the RSS feed
it has the most recent 20 eps on it dxtr: rght
Right* RandalSchwartz: ryan or aaron? dxtr: huh+ RandalSchwartz: "guy in the beginning" dxtr: you, smartass RandalSchwartz: uh... not sure I like being called "hot", unless you happen to be female. dxtr: I was kind of joking.. You know..? Fun..? RandalSchwartz: that...comes across weird. please don't do that. dxtr: :D
That usually happens around me RandalSchwartz: then again, you're in high school... still not adjusted. :) dxtr: To be honest I think it's cultural. RandalSchwartz: quite possibly
"hot" has to come from MOTAS for us
and if not from MOTAS, we object dxtr: MOTAS? RandalSchwartz: member of the appropriate sex dxtr: Haha
Here we laugh about it :P RandalSchwartz: yeah - definitely cultural then
just beware when dealing with us crazy americans dxtr: We usually say that when, for example, someone's on TV. Either "God that guy is hot/whatever" or the opposite
someone = someone we know
If we say the positive we usually have sarcasm in the voice though
So.. Yeah.. I guess it's cultural :P RandalSchwartz: yeah - that doesn't come through either
if you had smileyfaced "hot", I might have let it slip
it's why the smiley was invented
sarcasm doesn't come through in teext dxtr: You never nkow
know* RandalSchwartz: Oh... I know. Believe me... I know. :) dxtr: Haha
http://imgur.com/gallery/9AKYl hmm ***: schmir has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) jdoe: RandalSchwartz: you're a cranky old perl guy, can you weigh in on something for me? RandalSchwartz: I'm more than cranky about Perl
I have a wide range of cranks :) jdoe: taint mode in cgi: useful, unnecessary, or somewhere in between? RandalSchwartz: Yes. jdoe: unhelpful response ;) RandalSchwartz: too broad a question
so if you give me a question that hasn't had quantum collapse, I respond likewise :) jdoe: I'm talking with the Mojolicious developers. I noticed that their module does not play nice with -T and found a reference to a mailing list discussion on a list that no longer exists, so I went to ask why it's broken and if it's going to stay that way or if someone's working on it, or...
... and I'm being told that -T for CGI is silly and why on earth would you want that, and so on and so forth. RandalSchwartz: the problem is that it's horrible for absolute beginners, because they then cut-n-paste the code that untaints everything jdoe: including some babble I don't fully understand about how "parsers" automatically untaint everything. When pressed on what "parsers" covers I got "HTTP, CGI, PSGI, chunked" etc. RandalSchwartz: it's great for initial to intermediate hackers
and it's horrible again for experts
if you're playing with Mojolicous, you're probably in the expert category jdoe: I'm not convinced that's true ;) RandalSchwartz: you asked my opinion. :)
I wouldn't hand Mojo to any intermediate person
too early in the cycle, too underdocumented
too bizarre jdoe: true. Can you elaborate on why it's so horrible to have programmers of any skill level forced to sanitize input? RandalSchwartz: and too likely to change in the next release
that's a completely separate question
you asked about taint jdoe: is it? RandalSchwartz: yes
taint is a detection for failure jdoe: doesn't taint force (or at least encourage) sanitizing input? RandalSchwartz: not a means to sanitize
it forces the same rules on all data
some data it doesn't matter
for example if you know you'll be carefully inserting this data into a database using a placeholder, then you don't need to sanitize at all
or if you'll be using it as an arg in a multi-element system call, and you know what that's calling
so taint is a broad brush
sometimes you want a smaller brush
thus... good for beginners to intermediate
bad for advanced
and bad for early beginners tempted to work around it
I don't need taint like I don't need warnings enabled.
I *know* the good practices.
and warnings enabled just make me do stupid things
like $foo =~ /bar/... no wait, I have to use ($foo || '') =~ /bar/
too much crappy code like htat
anyway, you asked, I told
jdoe? dxtr: RandalSchwartz: By the way, when you get a weird question like that in the beginning
The standard answer is "How long is a string?" RandalSchwartz: not for me dxtr: or rope RandalSchwartz: I like to be a bit more clever
heard "how long is a string" too many times :)
maybe you haven't, you tyke. :) dxtr: I think that one is clever because it still makes people think for a while RandalSchwartz: not if you've heard it 100 times :)
I think having to think about what a "Yes" answer means for that is more fun dxtr: Unfortunately, yes :/
That's more "wtf" actually RandalSchwartz: you should hear what I do for false dichotomies :) dxtr: But I might be damaged from my mom RandalSchwartz: "should I use Apache on my next project? or Squid?" dxtr: I can ask stuff like "What do you want to eat? Pizza, burgers or something else?" and she's like "uhm, yeah" RandalSchwartz: my reply might be "should I take my lunch or the bus to work" dxtr: "Mom, wtf?" - "Oh, what did you say?" RandalSchwartz: ok. time to sync the iphone... and head down to happy hour dxtr: I'm getting an HTC Desire o RandalSchwartz: that would not be as useful for me as an iphone is dxtr: Sure it would! up_the_irons: channel poll: how do you subscribe to mailing lists? do you use, say, your regular email (gdolley@arpnetworks.com) or an email + extension (gdolley+ml-openbsd-misc@arpnetworks.com)
email + ext, for automatic filtering into folders RandalSchwartz: it depends on whether my email is revealed to others dxtr: up_the_irons: I haven't gotten that last to work with postfix :/ RandalSchwartz: any place where it might be, I just use merlyn@ jdoe: RandalSchwartz: sorry, I'm distracted by real work and an increasingly irritated mojo dev :P RandalSchwartz: but if I know it'll always be hidden, I tag it up_the_irons: dxtr: mail + ext works really easily with postfix using dovecot as the LDA RandalSchwartz: there's more than one mojo dev? jdoe: well, if he's not a dev, than an op. up_the_irons: RandalSchwartz: gotcha RandalSchwartz: especailly when dealing with companies
every single time some $vendor wants my email, I use "merlyn.$vendor@" dxtr: up_the_irons: LDA? RandalSchwartz: so that I can tell when my name gets sold dxtr: Legal Drinking Age? RandalSchwartz: and then quickly block that spam, and yell at $vendor dxtr: Low density amorphous ice?
Ah up_the_irons: RandalSchwartz: roger dxtr: silly me
Ignore that, up_the_irons :D up_the_irons: dxtr: local delivery agent dxtr: It's just me being tired up_the_irons: ok RandalSchwartz: I've had one vendor repeatedly sell my email, regardless of the checkboxes
but I can't switch because I have a contract with them for a good number more years. dxtr: So postfix doesn't handle it by itself? up_the_irons: dxtr: it probably can, I just never tried RandalSchwartz: I use procmail to sort mine up_the_irons: I use dovecot as my LDA so everything is just delivered to it
i wanted to use procmail, but then i saw the syntax RandalSchwartz: .. * LOCAL ?? ^merlyn+stonehenge+/.* .. {
.. TO="$MATCH" so that lets me grab TO = everything after that dot
then I can sort on that
... * TO ?? ^majordomo$
etc etc
procmail rocks jdoe: RandalSchwartz: yeah, I get that if you know explicitly where something is going that you may know better than perl does, but isn't that an argument for a framework to use taint checking? By definition it has no idea where the input is going, except maybe for a couple cases like using the url path to figure out what handler to call. RandalSchwartz: again - broad brushes sometimes paint too much
so... no jdoe: not "better safe than sorry"?
;) RandalSchwartz: jdoe -- see my warnings example
crappy code doesn't make me feel less warned
it simply says that warnings are too broad for me
ditto taint mode
it interferes sometimes when I know better
therefore, I can't use it
at least warnings has "no warnings qw(foo)"
if you can remember the foo
but taint has no such thing
except an overbroad regex match jdoe: RandalSchwartz: "Sebastien Riedel", if the name means anything to you. RandalSchwartz: yeah. *the* mojo dev jdoe: he may not have been irritated, just German. RandalSchwartz: that's why I said "more than one?"
SRI jdoe: yeah, I just assumed his nick would have some relation to his cpan username RandalSchwartz: so far, mojo seems to have one dev, and a few dozen interested users
who are willing to put up with SRI :) jdoe: I liked the looks of it in theory. RandalSchwartz: and you know the old saying jdoe: I'm less impressed with his assertion that everything magically untaints itself. RandalSchwartz: the difference between theory and practice in theory, is less than the difference between theory and practice in practice. :)
somewhere I saw someone recurse that one more level
but I can't find it now
the difference between the difference between theory and practice in theory and theory and practice in practice ... is less than...
something like that jdoe: I dunno. I like having -T as a safety net. Worst case it annoys me, I'd rather it do that than miss something that could cause problems. RandalSchwartz: yeah - so you're in the middle. happy for you! jdoe: it's not perfect, but it at least forces me to think first. RandalSchwartz: I'm over here ==> beginner [ . . . . / ] expert
so it merely annoys me jdoe: haha. Wherever I am, I prefer to think of it as acknowledgement of fallibility than a comment on skill.
... although yeah, I'd be pretty happy to call myself intermediate. RandalSchwartz: I fail, but I have other means to check that jdoe: do tell RandalSchwartz: I would, and I'd miss more of happy hour.
g'nite all! jdoe: later!
haha dxtr: RandalSchwartz is getting wasted
Is it just me or is it disturbing that my teacher have mail contact with my girlfriend? ***: Nat_UB has joined #arpnetworks
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Aila has left "Leaving" mrbit: hey Randal
how are you tonight? dxtr: Yay!
Apparently I don't have to go to school today o mrbit: yay!
sup dxtr dxtr: Not much
And it feels weird
For a couple of years know I've always known I've had school stuff to do
Now I'm done with everything and don't have to go to school today
So I don't know wtf to do .p mrbit: hehehe dxtr: I have nothing important to suppress mrbit: enjoy it man!
damnit i forgot my passwd on #arp
:sigh:
*reads logs*
brb dxtr: Hehe
Since I got my VPS in March or something I've used about 30GB bandwidth :D mrbit: NICe
unmetered i assumem dxtr: Well, I've got 100GB each month so