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   Wraithan: Well I am sort of in my system lol
   <br> kernel doesn't seem to provide virtio out of box
   <br> but I got my bootloader setup right... so now it is just a matter of getting my kernel setup righ
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   Wraithan: on my ARP vps
   <br> sort of :)
   <br> exit
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   Wraithan: kernels take entirely too long to compile
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   cedwards: <u>Wraithan</u>: bummer
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   Wraithan: Well I am on my ARP vps, chrooted in from the liveCD and it is running fine lol
   <br> Hopefully I'll hace an hour or two tonight to get it working the rest of the way
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   wizzo`s_fizzo: Jeez you guys talk too much, I can hardly keep up with the conversations
   <br> slow it down already!
   cedwards: sorry :(
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   Wraithan: forgot I changed my nick
   <br> &lt;.&lt;
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   BarberRonny: a
   <br> whoops
   dxtr: Uhm. Why did this ice cream taste like snus?
   <br> That
   <br> That's horrible
   mike-burns: What's nu?
   dxtr: Oh, you're american? :D
   <br> But you have snus in the states nowadays
   <br> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snus
   mike-burns: Ha, I assumed you were making a pun along the likes of "my roommate is wearing her updog around the apartment".
   CESSMASTER: Uhm. Why did this ice cream taste like anus?
   dxtr: Wat?
   CESSMASTER: But you have anus in the states nowadays
   dxtr: <u>CESSMASTER</u>: Perhaps you had it in your anus?
   CESSMASTER: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anus
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   mike-burns: Haha.
   CESSMASTER: nsfw probably
   <br> oh, not anymore
   dxtr: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_anus
   <br> :D
   CESSMASTER: there used to be an actual photo of a human anus
   dxtr: There are two nowadays
   <br> Didn't you see the discussion about that?
   CESSMASTER: no
   dxtr: Some people didn't want a shaved ass because it didn't look natural
   <br> And some didn't want a male anus
   CESSMASTER: hahahahhahaha
   dxtr: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Human_anus
   <br> There
   <br> :)
   <br> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Human_anus#Endless_image_contention
   <br> More like that
   <br> That would bring it around full circle to where it's been a couple of years. We had a cropped, shaved, bleached porn-anus in this article for a while, it was determined unsuitable (and a copyvio) and replaced with the current hairy man-hole. All we need is a neutral-looking and not-overly-hairy, suitable for an anatomy text
   <br> I have actually considered taking a photo of my own anus for the article (as far as I am aware, mine is pretty typical) just to put an end to this. Unfortunately, I don't think I'll be able to hold the camera at the right angle to get a decent shot. :( If you take a close look at the 'porn' anus in hi-res, it doesn't actually appear to have been shaved or bleached.
   <br> Yeah
   <br> I think you get it
   <br> please remove picture of male anus and replace with female anus Fartbarker 22:44, 28 January 2007 (UTC
   CESSMASTER: hahahahahahahaha
   dxtr: This arguement is ridiculous....if you don't want to see an anus, be it male or female or hairy or not so hairy...um don't come to this page? Yeah...now if you want to see a female anus to masturbate to for whatever reason, how bout you go find a porn site? The gender of the person with the anus does not matter. An anus is an anus is anus. Deal with it. Don't want to see it, ...
   <br> ... don't go to the anus page...
   <br> Are aliens coming to this page? Anyone from the animal kingdom who isn't human? We don't need photos of anuses, ok? We just simply do not. It's gratuitous, inappropriate, nearing pornographic and quite ridiculous. Everyone has an anus and they know what it looks like. If an image is *absolutely* necessary, i think i diagram or drawing would suffice. 71.232.108.228  07:01, 23 ...
   Wraithan: Er
   dxtr: ... March 2007 (UTC)
   <br> Hahahaha
   Wraithan: if folks want to read it
   <br> they can go to the page.
   dxtr: They can?
   CESSMASTER: http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Sex_drawings_by_User:Seedfeeder this is what i was talking about
   <br> half of these aren't even linked to a wikipedia article
   jdoe: they probably were.
   <br> after they went through the first copyright violation/sharia law purge, they replaced a lot of the sex article pictures with drawings (and occasionally in non-human flesh tones)
   <br> I think they stopped doing that.
   dxtr: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Human_anus#Artificial_anus &lt;- Haha, read that :D
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   Wraithan: http://www.wolfire.com/humble
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   -: jdoe stabs dns.
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   -: cedwards steps away for the afternoon and comes back to talk of anuses. wtf.
   Wraithan: A thing that is a bit problematic (could just be configuration stuff from what I am reading) is that my VPS is only showing one core?
   cedwards: <u>Wraithan</u>: both of mine show the same
   Wraithan: :(
   <br> The dual 4 core servers made me think I'd have multiple cores, even if it was 2-4 (4 seems standard these days for VPS)
   william```: don't arpnetworks vps only have a single cpu?
   Wraithan: Yeah, just found that out
   <br> which could be problematic
   william```: little weird if you're used to linode/slicehost
   <br> :)
   <br> unfortunately, neither of those offer bsd...
   -: Wraithan doesn't care about the BSD offerings lol
   Wraithan: <u>up_the_irons</u>: So the servers are multi-core but the VPSs only get access to a single core?
   <br> brb
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   cedwards: I understand it as a single, dedicated core whereas the others are multiple, shared cores.
   Wraithan: Yes, but having it as a single rather than multiple means if I go to compile a package I could bring my webservices to a halt/crawl
   william```: you can nice the compilation process
   <br> give it a priority of 20
   Wraithan: I have to make sure I do anything that could be detrimental as nice, which is a hassle
   jdoe: it's not a dedicated core, is it?
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   jdoe: presumably it's a ... single core that you get some slice of as determined by scheduling on the host.
   Wraithan: william```: Yes I know but I compile packages weekly, among other things that are CPU intensive
   william```: why do you have to compile things weekly? o.O
   <br> are you running gentoo or something? :)
   Wraithan: No, but I run cutting edge on several packages
   jdoe: ... or freebsd, or openbsd ;)
   Wraithan: Every 3 weeks is a new kernel release, that I will have to compile, I am running trunk of python 2.7 for a couple of my projects, and trunk of python 3.2 for some other stuff
   william```: ouch
   Wraithan: Once 2.7 is official I wont have to compile it anymore, but until then I need to be tested against the latest so I can confidently push a release on 2.7 as soon as 2.7 is stable.
   cedwards: I compile all my ports on FreeBSD and I haven't seen any issues yet.
   Wraithan: Does your system default to nice'ing the compilation?
   <br> Btw, recompiled kernel makes my system work 100%
   william```: what was happening before you recompiled it?
   Wraithan: hanging because virtio was a module, not compiled in.
   william```: :(
   Wraithan: scp is amazing :)
   cedwards: rsync is more amazing?
   william```: not the same thing
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   cedwards: so I'm playing around with FreeBSD in KVM locally. Can anyone tell me how to activate console access, like is available at ARP?
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   Nat_UB: <u>cedwards</u>: Think he uses an actual serial console...but I know zero details
   <br> :)
   up_the_irons: <u>cedwards</u>: -serial telnet:127.0.0.1:&lt;port&gt;,server,nowait
   <br> <u>cedwards</u>: then telnet to localhost and that port
   Nat_UB: Or that....  hehehe
   up_the_irons: <u>Nat_UB</u>: looks like an actual serial console, doesn't it? ;)
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   Nat_UB: yes...rather neat implementation
   up_the_irons: thanks
   <br> I credit toddf for pointing me in the right direction and providing hints / tips
   cedwards: looks like I'm close based on this: http://www.freebsd.org/doc/en/books/handbook/serialconsole-setup.html
   <br> I can see the boot output, but can't yet login.
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   up_the_irons: <u>cedwards</u>: you need to run a getty on /dev/ttyu0
   <br> or ttyd0 (FreeBSD 7.2 and below)
   cedwards: that might be my problem. I setup ttyd0, but I'm running 8.0.
   <br> I'll try ttyu0
   up_the_irons: 8.0 uses uart(4) by default, not sio(4), so yeah, you'll need ttyu0
   cedwards: (I'm testing this on Ubuntu 10.04 using virsh console and virt-manager)
   up_the_irons: nice
   <br> should have the serial fix in it then, and you'll have no problems
   cedwards: Edit /etc/ttys and change off to on and dialup to vt100 for the ttyd0 entry. Otherwise a password will not be required to connect via the serial console, resulting in a potential security hole.
   <br> that is from the handbook. you say just change ttyd0 to ttyu0 and it should work for 8.0?
   up_the_irons: yes
   <br> handbook must not be updated for 8.0 yet
   Wraithan: <u>up_the_irons</u>: the VPSs are all single core?
   up_the_irons: <u>Wraithan</u>: yes, unless you order more ($2 per core)
   Wraithan: Ah I was not aware... maybe I didn't notice
   <br> <u>up_the_irons</u>: would I send an email to support@ in order to request the extra(s)?
   up_the_irons: most are happy with just a single core
   <br> <u>Wraithan</u>: yup
   william```: what is the max number of cores you can have on a single vps?
   Wraithan: Heh, i use my vps for multiple things, which need the ability to be spread out on different cores
   cedwards: for documentation sake: I added 'console="comconsole"' to /boot/loader.conf and made the above change to /etc/ttys.
   up_the_irons: william```: 8
   william```: so that is baseline vps price + $14 (7 additional cores) per month?
   up_the_irons: <u>cedwards</u>: i find it a little easier to just "echo "-D" &gt; /boot.config"
   <br> william```: yes
   william```: cool, noted :)
   up_the_irons: np
   william```: what is the average response time for support tickets?
   <br> i'm looking to migrate off of linode to arpnetworks entirely
   up_the_irons: william```: depends on the request
   william```: root pass reset :-)
   cedwards: <u>up_the_irons</u>: ohh, now you tell me. pfft.
   fink: <u>up_the_irons</u>: do you guys cater?
   up_the_irons: vps reset (format / reinstall) is usually like 24 / 48 hours
   -: fink is hankering for some choco cupcakes
   william```: <u>up_the_irons</u>: it requires a reinstall to reset the root pass? o.O
   up_the_irons: william```: not applicable -- you can reset your root password on your own in single-user mode -- http://support.arpnetworks.com/faqs/vps/what-is-supported
   <br> <u>fink</u>: only cupcakes
   william```: oh, great
   <br> thanks
   up_the_irons: william```: no no, just giving an example of support request ;)
   william```: i'll make sure i log in more than once every 1.5 months so i don't forget in the future :)
   <br> i still do 99% of my stuff on linode :-/
   fink: lamenode
   up_the_irons: LOL
   william```: they're ok, but... linux
   -: william``` stabs himself in the face
   up_the_irons: never  used them, but hear they are a pretty decent provider
   <br> probably one of the top
   william```: having choice of five datacenters is cool
   up_the_irons: i bet
   william```: and their support is good
   cedwards: they need to move away from xen though or they'll be stuck on dying tech
   up_the_irons: yeah, their higher prices can afford staff :)
   <br> <u>cedwards</u>: yes, srsly
   william```: haha, not a jibe, just an observation :-)
   fink: if you guys had cupcakes you would leave lamenode in the lamelagoon
   cedwards: we've been talking a lot about virtualization at work and I've simply told them to wait until kvm is well-done.
   <br> no point in starting things out on xen, and having to rebuild later.
   Wraithan: <u>cedwards</u>: we are using kvm at work right now
   up_the_irons: william```: right, didn't take it as a jibe, was also just observing ;)
   william```: :)
   cedwards: <u>Wraithan</u>: I just got a Dell R900 to start testing with.
   <br> <u>up_the_irons</u>: so I removed my previous changes and tried simply "-D" in /boot.config. The console stalls out at trying to mount root from ufs:/dev/ad0s1a
   up_the_irons: <u>cedwards</u>: that's probably just the end of it writing; the next will be getty
   Wraithan: We have a custom built server, pretty nice gear in it... I mainly just bring it to it's knees while I am doing a naive first pass of stuff though
   <br> go go 1600 queries to render a single page!
   up_the_irons: <u>cedwards</u>: i'd say kvm is already well-done.  I've replaced Xen completely with KVM at this point.  Things work even *better*
   william```: 1600 queries? o_o
   cedwards: <u>up_the_irons</u>: we're mostly a RHEL shop, so I've been kind of just holding out for KVM to be provided there in RHEL6 (although I think they offered it in 5.5 too)
   ballen: whens RHEL6 supposed to be out?
   <br> or 5.5 for that matter
   Wraithan: william```: you've never done a naive first pass with a ORM, without any optimization in mind?
   -: Wraithan ponders when RHEL will die.
   <br> Wraithan hates it.
   ballen: never will
   up_the_irons: <u>cedwards</u>: i c
   ballen: its a decent version of Linux
   Wraithan: No it isn't
   william```: <u>Wraithan</u>: i use an ORM daily :-)
   ballen: especially if you have a large enterprise site license
   Wraithan: It is the reason good projects have to support old garbage
   ballen: if you have a kickstart server setup, local yum repos, etc
   Wraithan: They still support Python 2.3
   <br> or maybe JUST phased it out, I forget
   ballen: they're plenty of ways to get around old versions
   <br> just like you would in Solaris
   Wraithan: Yeah, typically it is hacks to make it work on old versions as well as new
   <br> it makes for shit code because you have to support something so old.
   up_the_irons: Anything RH-based gets hacked
   ballen: well anything CentOS gets hacked
   <br> RH is less worse off
   up_the_irons: nah, all my RH servers got hacked, i've never run Cent
   ballen: plus it has a lot of industry support as far as paid apps go
   Wraithan: Plus (in my very limited experience with it) making RPMs SUCKS
   ballen: yes RPM's are lame
   <br> just saying its not as bad as most people thing it is
   <br> as is most things
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   ballen: think*
   Wraithan: I'm just saying setups like RHEL are part of the reason why technology isn't moving forward as fast as it could.
   up_the_irons: making RPMs sucks, but so does making .deb's
   <br> they all suck
   Wraithan: <u>up_the_irons</u>: that is why you make PKGBUILDs
   <br> they don't suck
   up_the_irons: been meaning to look into Arch Linux pacman stuff; it seems a lot simpler
   ballen: Arch is good
   <br> and yes pacman is wicked simple
   <br> but
   <br> Arch is bleeding edge
   <br> no matter what
   <br> compat be damned
   Wraithan: <u>ballen</u>: http://www.archserver.org/
   up_the_irons: i like *BSD package stuff as well, since they are mainly just tarballs
   Wraithan: <u>up_the_irons</u>: arch recently moved to using tar.xz's for packaging :)
   <br> tiny downloads
   up_the_irons: nice
   ballen: arch server is interesting, but if I really have my choice I'd just pick FreeBSD
   <br> no reason to use Linux
   <br> for most things
   Wraithan: I've never (directly) used *BSD and could say the same thing about it.
   up_the_irons: it's all about taste
   Wraithan: Yup
   ballen: well theres certainly ease of use
   <br> and FreeBSD has a lot of that
   Wraithan: I said something smart the other about it
   up_the_irons: <u>ballen</u>: yeah but FreeBSD is difficult for those who are used to something else
   <br> everything is hard when you don't invest the time
   <br> if you learn it, it becomes easy
   Wraithan: :)
   ballen: hah, yeah buy X is difficult for those who are used to something else
   Wraithan: Arch is very easy!
   ballen: but*
   Wraithan: L(
   <br> :)
   up_the_irons: <u>ballen</u>: yeah
   Wraithan: http://www.lessthanthreesoftware.com
   <br> now running on ARP
   up_the_irons: ease of use is relative to the user, let's just put it that way
   <br> so, again, it comes down to taste
   ballen: true
   Wraithan: <u>up_the_irons</u>: put in the request for the extra cores :)
   <br> I find windows hard to use.
   ballen: meh whatever, use whatever the hell ya want
   Wraithan: Same with OSX
   ballen: is my opinion
   Wraithan: my hands don't flow!
   <br> (nor does the spice)
   ballen: unless it affects my production systems I don't care
   william```: osx is a fully-certified unix :-)
   up_the_irons: hehe
   fink: i love osx with macports
   william```: sudo port install slime +sbcl :-)
   Wraithan: Eh, I use a highly customized WM... even other linux systems are hard to use
   fink: freebsd is a "real" unix, it seems to me
   Wraithan: william```: yous a lisp hacker?
   up_the_irons: <u>Wraithan</u>: which WM?
   Wraithan: <u>up_the_irons</u>: xmonad
   up_the_irons: i use xmonad, which is pretty geeky
   <br> LOL
   Wraithan: :D
   up_the_irons: xmonad is da bomb
   <br> "Powerglove and Sonta Arctica" &lt;-- typo
   Wraithan: <u>up_the_irons</u>: I'm friends with dons, go to talks at his office every other week or so
   william```: <u>Wraithan</u>: sometimes, i'm also learning Haskell, but i write Ruby for a living
   mike-burns: Me toO!
   william```: dons is a major dude
   fink: omg we have so much in common!
   mike-burns: omg do you like bsd too?!
   Wraithan: no.
   fink: omgomgomg
   Wraithan: er
   <br> yes &lt;.&lt;
   <br> &gt;.&gt;
   mike-burns: Ha.
   fink: like whatever!
   Wraithan: william```: Ah, I am mostly a python coder (pays the bills) but lisp and haskell in my freetime
   william```: nice :-)
   <br> i work on a large rails application for a living
   Wraithan: Though truth be told I like python quite a bit
   up_the_irons: lol, this is making my browser barf:
   <br> host www.lessthanthreesoftware.com
   <br> www.lessthanthreesoftware.com has address 206.125.170.2
   william```: 160 models :|
   up_the_irons: www.lessthanthreesoftware.com has address 74.204.234.252
   Wraithan: william```: large django app
   up_the_irons: changing IP
   mike-burns: I've realized that Haskell is tricky because of the non-code parts of it are foreign. Things like documentation, finding a job, socializing events, and so on are very different than what the industry is used to.
   fink: <u>Wraithan</u>: me = python fanboy
   Wraithan: <u>up_the_irons</u>: linode is doing that, I shut off their DNS stuff but it is being bothersome
   up_the_irons: <u>Wraithan</u>: roger
   william```: yeah, i don't use linode's dns offerings
   Wraithan: I used to.
   william```: i take it they're bizarre?
   mike-burns: I work on many large Rails applications for a living.
   Wraithan: Nah, it was pretty straightforward, but I deleted my entries but they are still being propagated from there
   ballen: <u>up_the_irons</u>: you should peer with Comcast
   up_the_irons: <u>ballen</u>: don't i wish
   Wraithan: One large Django app, many small django apps for me
   william```: mike-burns: did your predecessors understand how indexes in a rdbms are supposed to work? :-/
   ballen: have to hit level3 and mzima before Arp
   up_the_irons: <u>ballen</u>: i'm ready and willing, but they'll give me the finger ;)
   mike-burns: william```: Absolutely.
   william```: i envy you :(
   up_the_irons: <u>ballen</u>: i will probably get level3 direct next year
   ballen: whys that, seems like generally everyone should be willing to peer
   up_the_irons: <u>ballen</u>: but it's not like the mzima hop really adds much
   mike-burns: william```: We don't believe that indexes are an optimization; we believe that it is a bug to leave them out.
   ballen: also peer with Es.net :-)
   william```: mike-burns: i found a query that would occasionally run via a cronjob on our site that did a table scan of 26 million rows
   <br> took 500-600 seconds to run
   mike-burns: Ha.
   up_the_irons: <u>ballen</u>: ah, no.  there's a lot of politics to it.  the smaller networks will peer, yes, no problem.  but larger ones want minimum traffic, ratio requirements, etc...
   ballen: hmm
   up_the_irons: <u>ballen</u>: es.net i think is pay to play
   ballen: hmm, shouldn't be all their main goal is to serve the DOE labs
   up_the_irons: <u>ballen</u>: but i thought one of _my_ peers already peered with them, so it was like one more hop
   ballen: yea es.net to you is quite fast
   <br> es.net to comcast is slow
   <br> which is annoying as hell
   <br> anyone ever play with GridFTP
   up_the_irons: <u>ballen</u>: i might have been thinking of someone else.  es.net appears to have open peering now that i looked it up, but they are not on any exchange that i'm on
   ballen: yea Es.net should be fairly cool, if you ever need to get a hold of anyone there let me know
   up_the_irons: ah, PacificWave was pay to play, and they have ESnet as a member
   <br> <u>ballen</u>: sure, i will, thanks
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   Wraithan: <u>up_the_irons</u>: dns should be fixed
   <br> heh
   <br> er
   <br> nvm
   <br> www still has 2
   <br> wtf
   up_the_irons: dns caching is a bitch
   william```: wild
   up_the_irons: actually, caches in general are a bitch
   <br> 7:30 already.. time to go home
   ballen: anyone in Cisco world know when the 2960S switches will be available?
   mike-burns: "There are only two hard problems in Computer Science: cache invalidation and naming things." - Phil Karlton
   william```: and random number generation
   <br> you don't want to be in a state of sin, do you? :)
   mike-burns: Is sin a state between solid and liquid?
   william```: "Anyone who attempts to generate random numbers by deterministic means is, of course, living in a state of sin." --John von Neumann
   <br> :)
   mike-burns: Ha, well played.
   william```: speaking of that, i have this thing called an "entropy key"
   <br> which keeps your entropy pool on linux systems maxed out
   <br> using an overloaded transistor or something
   mike-burns: Sounds fancy.
   william```: i should get that freebsd driver book and write a driver for it :)
   <br> it substantially decreases ssh/ssl handshake times
   mike-burns: I had no idea. Faster things are nice; you should do that.
   william```: when i have some free time :(
   Wraithan: william```: what is free time?
   william```: what i have too much stuff slated for ;)
   Wraithan: If you have stuff slated to used it, is it still time that is free?
   william```: hmm, good point
   <br> i guess it's more "personal time" than anything
   Wraithan: lol
   <br> http://www.entropykey.co.uk/
   <br> neat idea
   william```: yeah, it's cool
   <br> boot off an ubuntu live cd, install that, dd if=/dev/random of=/dev/sda
   <br> then the system doesn't have to fill its own entropy pool with psuedorandom data
   <br> so overwriting a disk with random data takes hours, not days :P
   Wraithan: I never really do that
   <br> I can't recall ever selling a harddrive
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   william```: i iamgine most people who don't do full disk encryption don't
   Wraithan: They die before that
   william```: imagine*
   Wraithan: Ah, yeah, I don't do that
   ballen: Full disk encryption is generally a pain in the ass
   Wraithan: my laptop isn't a security risk, all it has is personal code on it
   <br> ballen++
   ballen: we use WinMagic SecureDoc
   <br> which appears to do what it advertises
   <br> only a marginal slow down in a new Macbook
   william```: pgp's wde is pretty nice, too
   ballen: yea
   william```: i've only used it on osx, though
   <br> work laptop :)
   ballen: yep
   william```: the fact that you're forced to use AES-256 makes me uncomfortale though
   <br> uncomfortable, even
   -: jdoe shrugs.
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   fink: i use encrypted disk images
   jdoe: coming from the dude who trusts his rng to an overloaded transistor? ;)
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   william```: well, it's more random than the alternative :)
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   ballen: <u>up_the_irons</u>: have you done any 7.2 to 8.0 in place upgrdes?
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   jdoe: <u>ballen</u>: I have.
   ballen: assume you have to recompile all ports?
   jdoe: yep.
   ballen: thats a pain in the balls
   jdoe: oh it gets worse.
   <br> even if you follow the instructions portupgrade may blow up in the middle of upgrading everything because ruby is a pile of shit.
   <br> so make sure you get a list of what it wants to upgrade ;)
   <br> that said, binary update for core software + portupgrade + manually upgrading the shit portupgrade blew up before rebuilding was successful for me.
   <br> it took way longer than I was expecting, but it worked out in the ned.
   <br> end.
   ballen: yea sounds easier to just blow away the install and rebuild everything
   jdoe: depends on what you've got installed, I guess.
   <br> and how good your logbook is ;)
   ballen: yea
   jdoe: I keep backups of configs etc., but unless I'm redoing things I prefer to upgrade in place.
   ballen: yea
   <br> ugh... why is GridFTP such a bitch to install
   jdoe: no clue, first I've heard of it.
   ballen: part of Globus
   jdoe: first I've heard of that too ;)
   ballen: heh
   jdoe: I've done some HPC stuff before but it's always been same-site.
   ballen: yea
   jdoe: which, as I'm sure you're aware, is way more pleasant.
   ballen: GridFTP is kind of going towards being the standard of moving large datasets around across WAN
   jdoe: ugh, another encryption standard...
   <br> ... and parallel streams from the same host? If your network actually benefits from that, you need to fix your network...
   <br> ... oh, GSI is just TLS.
   <br> <u>ballen</u>: how well does it tolerate high latency?
   ballen: not sure yet
   <br> trying to get it installed to test it out
   jdoe: what are you using it for, if I may pry?
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   ballen: going to see if it helps with moving datasets ranging from 500MB-4GB from New Mexico to bay area
   <br> others are using it for much larger data sets
   <br> people that want to max out 10G links
   <br> well not want, need
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   fink: <u>jdoe</u>: no portmaster love?
   jdoe: <u>fink</u>: I dunno. I've been using portupgrade since it got pushed out there as the GREAT NEW THING TO USE. I never thought about switching.
   fink: <u>jdoe</u>: i used to use it; i've had much better luck with portmaster
   <br> minimal deps too
   jdoe: <u>ballen</u>: if you're just copying shit from point A to point B, try openssh with the performance patch.
   <br> <u>ballen</u>: http://www.psc.edu/networking/projects/hpn-ssh/
   ballen: yea I know
   jdoe: no love? That worked well for me.
   <br> <u>fink</u>: it still depends on ruby doesn't it?
   ballen: getting collaborators to patch openssh is somewhat difficult
   fink: no
   <br> <u>jdoe</u>: http://forums.freebsd.org/showthread.php?t=6078
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   -: fink likes portmaster ;)
   jdoe: <u>ballen</u>: more difficult then getting them to install this though? :)
   ballen: hah, as its looking right now, no
   <br> any idea if the server has to be patched or just the client?
   jdoe: <u>fink</u>: that's cool. For critical things like package management I prefer tried and true though :P
   <br> <u>ballen</u>: both I think.
   <br> <u>ballen</u>: it's been a while since I looked at the patch, but iirc it adds/modifies ciphers (so you could send stuff plaintext if you *really* wanted to, for example) as well as adjusts buffering.
   ballen: yea
   <br> supposedly it allows SSH to make use of multi-cores
   jdoe: still, it's not like they need to REPLACE anything to use it or anything crazy like that.
   <br> just run it as a second instance on 2222 or something and go nuts.
   ballen: yea fun thing is to push anything like this I'll have to write a whole case study and run it through my management, who while have to lend their support to even get the slightest chance of this happening
   <br> which isn't so bad
   jdoe: yeah, but you're going to have to do that with whichever you pick, presumably.
   ballen: yea
   <br> we're currently using ol' fashioned rsync
   <br> not even over ssh
   CESSMASTER: portmaster is great
   <br> in particular, it isn't written in ruby
   jdoe: <u>ballen</u>: ... not secret data, huh :P
   ballen: nah
   jdoe: <u>CESSMASTER</u>: believe me, I appreciate that. I'm just wary of change.
   ballen: oh well it'll be easy enough to test out OpenSSH with and without patch using Arpnetworks, roughly close enough and roughly same bandwidth
   CESSMASTER: then you should be wary of a program written in ruby, wait til that mickey mouse club changes some stupid shit
   ballen: aren't we just a bunch of ruby haters
   jdoe: <u>CESSMASTER</u>: in fairness, ruby is relatively stable, you want to bitch about rails ;)
   <br> the core language is more stable than python, at least :P
   <br> wonder how long it'll be before that bites *buntu in the ass.
   ballen: suppose this means I'll need to swap out dropbear on my vps now
   jdoe: well no, you could just build openssh in your homedir or something, run it on some other port...
   <br> ... but really? dropbear on a vps?
   ballen: hah yea
   jdoe: weird.
   ballen: look at how much memory it uses compared to openssh
   <br> at one point was trying to squeeze every ounce of memory
   <br> however you should know the $PATH is hard coded in drop bear and no it doesn't give a shit what your .profile does
   jdoe: memory's never really been that big a concern for me on a vps.
   <br> 256MB goes a very long way.
   ballen: run a few Rails projects, a postfix + postgrey + dovecot mail setup and it gets used up quick
   <br> however after moving to Sinatra
   <br> its really not a big deal
   CRowen: vps server?
   <br> stock?
   ballen: ?
   jdoe: <u>ballen</u>: I blame rails. I've done the same (minus postgrey, plus spamassassin), just nginx+php instead of rails. Did very well under load.
   ballen: yea
   <br> Sinatra + Redis backend
   <br> rocks the socks
   <br> as it were
   <br> at one point has postfix + dspam + dovecot + PostgreSQL
   <br> the first three were using SQL based data
   <br> for users, etc
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   ballen: waaay overkill
   jdoe: yeah
   <br> dspam is great if you're memory conscious though.
   CRowen: vps is stock?
   ballen: my vps?
   <br> yea postgrey is better
   jdoe: <u>ballen</u>: I think he's asking if he can order
   <br> <u>ballen</u>: or if they're still done.
   ballen: ah
   jdoe: total disagree on postgrey though, btw
   ballen: whys that
   <br> catches most spam
   jdoe: I hate greylisting.
   <br> it's annoying, it gets in the way, and it still lets a lot of spam through
   ballen: with almost no overhead
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   jdoe: yeah, that's why I nolist
   ballen: yea I used that and what ever one list was
   jdoe: zero overhead, zero delay, catches about as much as greylisting did for me.
   ballen: yea, just migrated to Google Apps
   jdoe: yeah...
   <br> that's a pretty compelling argument
   ballen: don't have to worry a damn bit about it now
   jdoe: haha.
   <br> I just don't like google having my mail.
   ballen: true
   jdoe: it knows enough about me already :P
   ballen: also true
   CRowen: I want a vps server, as I can pay for it
   ballen: then by all means place an order
   <br> <u>jdoe</u>: http://blogoscoped.com/archive/2007-09-17-n72.html
   <br> that'll make your confidence in google go down even more
   <br> albiet its fiction
   CRowen: and how to order, the site says it is just stock vps?
   jdoe: not a big Doctorow fan, but I've read that before. Yeah, I know.
   <br> haha.
   fink: <u>jdoe</u>: you use dspam on freebsd?
   ballen: hmm it does appear we out of stock
   fink: spamassasin + amavis just eats up memory like crazy
   jdoe: <u>fink</u>: once upon a time.
   ballen: feel free to email preorder@arpnetworks.com with what you want to be put on the waiting list
   jdoe: <u>fink</u>: right now I just use SA because I'm lazy, don't care on that machine,e tc.
   <br> also, it has more than enough ram for a couple perl procs.
   fink: i like that postgrey doesn't use a lot of memory
   CESSMASTER: corey doctorow is insufferable
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   ballen: hah, I think he's a good read
   <br> fun fiction for the most part
   jdoe: <u>fink</u>: nolisting uses even less ;)
   ballen: jdoe what if your list goes bat shit or gets hacked though ;-)
   CESSMASTER: his fiction is unremarkable dreck, nothing too wrong with it
   <br> his blogs and other shit make me hope a bus hits him
   ballen: ahahah
   jdoe: <u>ballen</u>: no no
   ballen: now thats not nice
   jdoe: <u>ballen</u>: nolisting isn't a list.
   CESSMASTER: boingboing is the worst
   ballen: ah
   <br> thats clever
   jdoe: nolisting is when you point your primary mx at an ip address that can never receive email. Just pick an IP you own, reject all traffic to port 25
   CRowen: ballen, thanks for help =)
   jdoe: very.
   <br> for anything that doesn't implement retries, you get them... so you get most of the benefit of greylisting at zero cost
   ballen: CRowen no prob, sorry theres nothing available at the moment. If you're in here when up_the_irons is around he can give you an idea of an ETA
   <br> jdoe, I actually really like that
   <br> any idea if its more effective than greylisting
   CESSMASTER: the bbc world news' asia business correspondent is so horribly upbeat
   jdoe: it's not going to be better, the best you can hope for is as-good-as, because they both target the same kind of bot, right?
   <br> ... but I mean, I tried it myself for a while.
   <br> and I was getting more-or-less equal numbers.
   <br> ... and having my email actually come through immediately was a real perk.
   ballen: hmm
   <br> indeed
   <br> just wondering if spammers started figuring out the greylisting trick and started to account for it
   jdoe: sure, some do.
   ballen: anyone have hands on experience with EMC CX-120 or Dell's Equalogic arrays ?
   jdoe: nein.
   ballen: need some central storage at work, not sold on the Dell stuff yet but its cheaper
   <br> that and iSCSI over FiberChannel
   <br> Dell only supports iSCSI
   <br> well I'm sold on the openssh patch, on my crappy comcast upload, 249KB/s to 346KB/s
   nesta: what ssh patch?
   ballen: http://www.psc.edu/networking/projects/hpn-ssh/
   nesta: cool thanks
   ballen: np
   <br> I'll let you all know what its capable of doing on a real connection after tomorrow
   <br> so the real question is why in the hell haven't these patches made it back into OpenSSH proper
   CESSMASTER: openbsd people
   ballen: ah good point, Theo
   jdoe: http://marc.info/?l=openssh-unix-dev&amp;m=114334841829392&amp;w=2
   ballen: indeed
   <br> so I could see where parallel transfers would benefit networks that have mutli-paths to the destination
   jdoe: I was thinking lan not wan
   ballen: ah yea
   <br> LAN isn't really an issue
   <br> only issue is CPU overhead of encryption with scp/sftp
   jdoe: if you don't care, you can disable it with that patch
   <br> there's a null cipher you can specify.
   ballen: yea, or the multi-core path
   <br> patch
   jdoe: well, yeah, but if you don't need to encrypt the data, why bother?
   ballen: most of my LAN data transferring if NFSv4 though
   <br> is*
   jdoe: oh god fucking damnit
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   jdoe: fuck you domainsatcost and your shitty fucking javascript interface.
   ballen: heh
   up_the_irons: <u>ballen</u>: never done a 7.2 -&gt; 8.0 in place upgrade
   ballen: <u>up_the_irons</u>: k
   <br> bed time, k bye
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   jdoe: man that's annoying.
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   dxtr: I find ballens name funny. "balle" is slang for penis in Swedish. ballen = The penis
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   jdoe: I assume it's Bob, Bill, Barry, whatever Allen
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   dxtr: <u>jdoe</u>: No shit, sherlock :)