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| up_the_irons | for the record, yes, I changed default partition between 7.2 and 8.0. 7.2 had slices for /usr /var, etc.. 8.0 just has one whopping / slice (ad0s1a) and swap (b)
even if someone puts custom partitioning in the order form, I can't do it. Default installs come from a template. Custom partitioning would require me to actually do the install from scratch, and given there is no setup fee... not gonna do it ;) Everyone can do their own custom partitioning by performing a re-install over VNC | [16:39] |
| jeev | up_the_irons, is it possible if i have a 400 gig /dev/md0 raid1 partition to create a LVM using some of it's space? | [16:42] |
| up_the_irons | jeev: software raid? | [16:43] |
| jeev | sure | [16:43] |
| up_the_irons | i've never used software raid | [16:43] |
| jeev | other than dismantling it
anyway, that's not the point the point is it possible to create a lvm using free space in an existing Linux partition? not LVM not a lvm partition | [16:43] |
| up_the_irons | jeev: not really | [16:44] |
| jeev | ok, if i have to reformat this box one more time
im gonna be pissed | [16:44] |
| up_the_irons | jeev: you want part of the partition to go to lvm and not the rest? are you high? ;) | [16:44] |
| jeev | maybe rather than installing with kvm over ip that's slow as shit
with pxeboot that takes forever i should dismantle hte raid, set up lvm and copy the data over? | [16:45] |
| up_the_irons | given i don't know your requirements, i'm not going to comment | [16:45] |
| jeev | its a mess around box at the datcenter
datacenter | [16:46] |
| RandalSchwartz | heh... sprocketnetworks just got wind of my move
now they say "oh, we offer FreeBSD VPS" idiots... why aren't you listing that on your website? :) do you see anythign but Linux or Windows on http://www.sprocketnetworks.com/virtual.htm no... neither do I. :) | [16:47] |
| jeev | is that mr spacely's space sprockets? | [16:48] |
| RandalSchwartz | and their 60GB disk plan is $149/month
and they don't have VNC consoles which I have now come to love | [16:48] |
| jeev | RandalSchwartz, that's a lot of adult videos | [16:48] |
| RandalSchwartz | I don't think their disk is raided either
so - I pointed them at the ARP page... let's see if they want to compete here's the other thing - PING blue.stonehenge.com (209.223.236.162): 56 data bytes 64 bytes from 209.223.236.162: icmp_seq=0 ttl=241 time=73.464 ms PING red.stonehenge.com (208.79.95.2): 56 data bytes 64 bytes from 208.79.95.2: icmp_seq=0 ttl=53 time=41.408 ms blue = sprocket red = ARP been trying it on various local nets... red is always the winer winner too | [16:49] |
| jeev | red and blue, sounds political | [16:52] |
| toddf | re-install over serial console, I prefer that one, much more secure *grin* vs re-install over vnc | [16:54] |
| jeev | hmm, openbsd.. not good
jeev hides | [16:55] |
| toddf | toddf fires the cruze missle that was not built due to darpa funds redirected to OpenBSD | [16:56] |
| jeev | heh | [16:56] |
| toddf | red @ okc cox cablemodem: round-trip min/avg/max/std-dev = 49.747/54.221/59.090/2.536 ms
blue @ okc cox cablemodem: round-trip min/avg/max/std-dev = 15.614/19.917/26.320/2.976 ms not just a small difference, its nearly double the latency sorry, more than | [16:57] |
| RandalSchwartz | oh weird.
so it depends on where you're coming from then | [16:58] |
| toddf | though I'm sure jeev will cringe when he realizes this was generated using openbsd through an OpenBSD/hppa firewall | [16:58] |
| jlgaddis | red=75ms, blue=84ms from here | [16:58] |
| toddf | but of course, each fabric of the net has its own resonance frequency that changes the song slightly depending on where you come from and where you go to | [16:59] |
| RandalSchwartz | yup | [16:59] |
| jeev | toddf, stop pretending you know anything about how computers, openbsd and networking works!
jeev looks away | [16:59] |
| RandalSchwartz | but anyway, let's see if sprocket wants my business bad enough
I don't think they'll have VNC console anytime soon | [16:59] |
| toddf | ssh serial consolez is where it's at
no root password sniffable sounds good to me | [16:59] |
| RandalSchwartz | and now that I've booted and rebooted my virtual DVD enough, I'll really miss that if I don't get it | [17:00] |
| toddf | note vnc is not encrypted just yet unless you ssh port redirect it | [17:00] |
| RandalSchwartz | well - yeah, that next
still haven't set that up | [17:00] |
| toddf | cat $HOME/.ssh/id_rsa.pub | mail -s "randalschwartz.pub" support@arpnetworks.com
there, no excuses, cut and paste or if you're paranoid generate a unique key just for arp if you think you like vnc wait till you see serial ;-) | [17:00] |
| up_the_irons | RandalSchwartz: did you come to love VNC consoles wrt your VPS VNC console, or do you mean VNC in general? | [17:01] |
| RandalSchwartz | if I had mail on my laptop, sure
which I don't :) | [17:01] |
| jlgaddis | echo "The problem is undoubtedly`nc bofh.jeffballard.us 666 | grep excuse | sed 's/Your excuse is://g'`" | mail $customer | [17:01] |
| RandalSchwartz | so I stil have to to transfer the file
pbcopy <id_rsa.pub ... | [17:02] |
| up_the_irons | toddf: you should pastie the traceroutes of red vs blue | [17:02] |
| RandalSchwartz | there - done
"support - You've Got Mail!" | [17:03] |
| toddf | some of us setup our laptops to have mta's that use port 587 or 465 to send mail out securely through a relay regardless of where we're at ;-) | [17:03] |
| jlgaddis | heh, my traceroute to his .162 box goes from here to indy to atlanta to dc to ny (all over internet2) to san jose to dallas
to arp it's here to indy to atlanta to chicago to dallas to phoenix to la fun stuff | [17:04] |
| up_the_irons | RandalSchwartz: you should be able to login now | [17:06] |
| toddf | http://pastebin.ca/1739579 <-- red vs blue from okc
drats, no v6, can't traceroute6 | [17:07] |
| up_the_irons | route through dallas is faster than through phoenix | [17:09] |
| jeev | i hate any presence in dallas
oversold trash network | [17:09] |
| up_the_irons | that's actually a generalization, the reverse path will be different
i should get some pricing from Savvis though... might be worth adding them | [17:10] |
| jlgaddis | just avoid cogent whatever you do
they're cheap as hell, but there's a reason why | [17:11] |
| toddf | if cogent offered me a decent fiber to my business office I'd take it, but alas nothing reasonable in okc | [17:14] |
| jlgaddis | they're not that bad, as long as you're multihomed
(to someone else, not to them) | [17:15] |
| toddf | all you techies move out here, its real cheap cost of living.. maybe enough IT mass might figure out a way to tap into some fiber to make some reasonable symetric data services available | [17:15] |
| jlgaddis | "here"? | [17:15] |
| toddf | if I want 10mbit symettric its near $3k/mo
here = oklahoma city, ok | [17:15] |
| jlgaddis | we lease assloads of dark fiber for 500/mo (per 2 strands) | [17:16] |
| toddf | no exchange point that I've found, which doesn't help
toddf holds his breath for randalschwartz to proclaim 'eureka!' wrt ssh console stuffz | [17:16] |
| up_the_irons | yeah i'm not about to jump on cogent
jlgaddis: where are you? what distance are you getting on the dark fiber? | [17:17] |
| jlgaddis | up_the_irons: bloomington, indiana. most of it is no more than 10km, longest is 81km. | [17:19] |
| up_the_irons | jlgaddis: nice | [17:19] |
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| jlgaddis | we connect into i-light (http://atlas.grnoc.iu.edu/atlas.cgi?map_name=I-Light) and go out from there
"indiana gigapop" | [17:22] |
| *** | ballen|away is now known as ballen | [17:26] |
| up_the_irons | interesting | [17:26] |
| jeev | oh that's awesome | [17:29] |
| ballen | very cool | [17:29] |
| jlgaddis | there's others as well, for internet2, i2 v6, the gigapop, and some other .edu networks | [17:30] |
| ballen | and you can overlay radar | [17:30] |
| up_the_irons | that's a pretty damn cool visualization of bandwidth usage | [17:35] |
| jlgaddis | there's some pretty neat toys
newest one (not yet public) allows customer to provision their own vlan's through their internet2 network say you have gear in ny and seattle and need a vlan... click click click, done. | [17:36] |
| jeev | crazy crazy crazy, done. | [17:40] |
| up_the_irons | jlgaddis: nice | [17:40] |
| jeev | i'm on my 17th pxe install of slackware cause i can't get this raid1 lvm and stuff with diff boot partition then install grub done | [17:40] |
| up_the_irons | jeev: one of my admins just had that problem, standby..
jeev: clear the disklabel in fdisk first just hit "o" (create dos disklabel), then "w" (write changes) | [17:41] |
| jeev | yea actually i've done it but i've never done it with lvm | [17:42] |
| up_the_irons | that'll clear any software raid crap on there | [17:42] |
| jeev | but i think i get the point of it now
honestly it's just grub being gay | [17:42] |
| ballen | Got a shipment of 13 SAS2 drives and the needed Dell drive caddies... and not fucking screws today
no* | [17:44] |
| jeev | i need grub cause i want to use xen
damn | [17:44] |
| ballen | yea
rather annoyed ordered a 100qty box from Amazon | [17:44] |
| jeev | waste of government time and money | [17:45] |
| ballen | 4 bucks | [17:45] |
| jeev | we need a senate hearing | [17:45] |
| ballen | hah
oh and I came back to one of my chillers outside cooling tower being frozen solid thankfully its the only room that has two chillers so tip of the day... if you turn off all your machines for the holiday... the chiller doesn't need to turn on very often if you have a water cooling tower and its below freezing outside you may have issues | [17:45] |
| jeev | heh
when you bu y from amazon, do you use a government cc? | [17:48] |
| ballen | I pass it off to my group office admin | [17:48] |
| jeev | ah | [17:48] |
| ballen | she has the cc | [17:48] |
| jeev | crazy a credit card billable to CTU LA
sick can you order me a card with my name Jack Bauer ? | [17:48] |
| ballen | yea thats why not many people get one | [17:49] |
| up_the_irons | jeev: it's amazing how much harder / disconnected / non-coherent some things are in Linux. I mean, installing a boot loader, why does it have to be so hard? On most *BSD's it's like "disklabel -B <device>". done and done | [17:49] |
| ballen | and theres a decent amount of approval depending on how much the order is | [17:49] |
| jeev | yea up_the_irons, lilo rules but not with xen
this is a non-vt capable box i'm setting xen up just for fun | [17:49] |
| jlgaddis | oh, that reminds me. i gotta order a 2821.
thanks ballen =) | [17:49] |
| ballen | heh np
order me one while your at it could use it | [17:49] |
| jeev | for example, i set up lame software raid and it's resyncing even though i've formatted it | [17:50] |
| ballen | although I did find a Pix 501 laying around today | [17:50] |
| jlgaddis | we have some retards at one site bitching because their fiber and ds-1's (for backup) all run into a 3845
"but what if the router goes down!?" | [17:51] |
| ballen | lmao | [17:51] |
| jlgaddis | heh, i think i have a 501 in the bottom of my desk | [17:51] |
| ballen | then your SOL, next question | [17:51] |
| jlgaddis | i'm ordering the 2821 and they're paying for it, they just don't know it yet
we'll move the ds-1's over to it to shut 'em up, but it'll cost 'em =) | [17:51] |
| up_the_irons | jlgaddis: that's a 2800 on your blog, no? | [17:52] |
| ballen | yea not much use for one, just surprised to find Cisco gear, we were all 3COM (eww I know) now all nortel | [17:52] |
| jlgaddis | up_the_irons: the header? yeah | [17:52] |
| RandalSchwartz | yeah, sprocket couldn't even come close
they still insist I should have been able to tell they'd run a FreeBSD VPS for me, by looking at a page that talks only about windows and linux. :) but no worries | [17:52] |
| up_the_irons | jlgaddis: i'd have to agree w/ the client; if even their redundant links go into the same equipment, it's not very redundant.. | [17:53] |
| RandalSchwartz | I gave them a chance. :)
they completely blew it off. :) I mean seriously - http://www.sprocketnetworks.com/virtual.htm - does that imply FreeBSD anywhere? | [17:53] |
| up_the_irons | jeev: my bro filled out a credit card app and put "W. Axl Rose" on it, and sure enough, he got a credit card that read "W. AXL ROSE" ;) | [17:54] |
| jeev | damn | [17:54] |
| up_the_irons | jeev: so go get your jack bauer card | [17:54] |
| jeev | you can get paypal to send you a jack bauer card honestly | [17:54] |
| jlgaddis | up_the_irons: oh they have a valid point, sure. but they have a spare sfp and card on site, so it's not a huge deal. | [17:54] |
| RandalSchwartz | paypal even sent me a card with my name mispelled
they must retype it somewhere and not just use electronic data | [17:54] |
| jlgaddis | besides, we're running gigabit over the fiber, and their "backup" is only 3xT1 | [17:55] |
| up_the_irons | RandalSchwartz: search for "freebsd" turns up nothing on that page | [17:55] |
| jlgaddis | and those will be at 100% if/when it fails over anyway because of all the students | [17:55] |
| up_the_irons | http://www.google.com/search?q=freebsd+site%3Asprocketnetworks.com&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=com.ubuntu:en-US:unofficial&client=firefox-a
RandalSchwartz: ^^ looks to me FreeBSD is only an option on a dedicated server | [17:57] |
| jlgaddis | damn, gotta run to work and scp the snow leopard disc image to my macbook. bbl. | [17:57] |
| up_the_irons | later | [17:58] |
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| jlgaddis | w00t
and i did have a 501 in the bottom of a my desk. and a 5505 on top of it too, apparently. http://www.flickr.com/photos/jlgaddis/4249935434/ | [18:18] |
| ballen | hah nice | [18:20] |
| jeev | hey, im trying this slack lvm, raid1 md0 xen set up one more time.. if it doesn't work, if anyone wants my liver.. i dont drink | [18:21] |
| jlgaddis | i could use a new one | [18:25] |
| jeev | ok i'll put you on the waiting list | [18:26] |
| *** | dbgi3 is now known as dbgi | [18:29] |
| RandalSchwartz | hmm. should serial console show me a login prompt?
or do I have to enable soemthign special? it accepts my serial password and says [Enter `^Ec?' for help] but no login prompt and yet, the box is up and running. | [18:32] |
| ballen | press enter
? | [18:35] |
| up_the_irons | yeah, press enter | [18:35] |
| RandalSchwartz | I have, no response | [18:35] |
| up_the_irons | RandalSchwartz: /etc/ttys is your friend | [18:35] |
| RandalSchwartz | and yet, red is up and running just fine | [18:36] |
| up_the_irons | uncomment the /dev/ttyu0 line
getty on serial line is not enabled by default on any FreeBSD that I know of | [18:36] |
| RandalSchwartz | it's uncommented | [18:36] |
| up_the_irons | nor OpenBSD
RandalSchwartz: err, i mean.. | [18:36] |
| RandalSchwartz | ttyu0 "/usr/libexec/getty std.9600" dialup off secure | [18:36] |
| up_the_irons | RandalSchwartz: turn it from "off" to "on" and set the terminal from "dialup" to "vt100" | [18:36] |
| jlgaddis | serial console is enabled by default on sparc64 | [18:36] |
| up_the_irons | jlgaddis: nice | [18:36] |
| jlgaddis | but i imagine most users don't run into that often =) | [18:37] |
| up_the_irons | right :) | [18:37] |
| RandalSchwartz | and then signal something, right? | [18:37] |
| jlgaddis | sighup init, at a guess | [18:37] |
| up_the_irons | RandalSchwartz: yep, but what you signal, i'm not sure | [18:37] |
| jlgaddis | kill -HUP 1 | [18:37] |
| RandalSchwartz | well - something like that shuts the system down | [18:37] |
| up_the_irons | at that point, i always had to reboot the VM anyway for some other reason, so never worried about it | [18:37] |
| RandalSchwartz | kill -HUP 1 says init(8)
here goes | [18:38] |
| jlgaddis | o/ | [18:38] |
| up_the_irons | m/ | [18:38] |
| RandalSchwartz | aha!
prompt! | [18:38] |
| up_the_irons | neato | [18:38] |
| RandalSchwartz | and there I am, logged in | [18:38] |
| up_the_irons | up_the_irons puts "kill -HUP 1" into his notes | [18:38] |
| RandalSchwartz | now how does this set me up for SSH VNC?
oh - I can tunnel on this duh | [18:39] |
| up_the_irons | yup
hit 't' for instructions up_the_irons thinks it's "t" yup, "t" in the menu, that is | [18:39] |
| RandalSchwartz | where... at teh menyu? | [18:39] |
| jlgaddis | one of those "obvious" things
"t" for instructions "j" for tar w/ bzip2 | [18:39] |
| up_the_irons | RandalSchwartz: the "c" option is to interact with your VM's serial line, most often used to run a login getty; the "t" option is to tunnel VNC over SSH and it simply displays instructions on how to do it | [18:41] |
| RandalSchwartz | ugh - 5555 - 5900 is... :)
ok - crap, can't type a minus sign can't use this tunnel PLEASE realize that VNC is traditionally 5900-5999 ports outside this range cause some UIs no end of problems 5555 for example is WRONG. flat out WRONG | [18:42] |
| up_the_irons | RandalSchwartz: you can pick any port you want
RandalSchwartz: port 5555 was just the example | [18:44] |
| RandalSchwartz | yeah, but its' the cut-n-paste example
put 5955 in there instead then I can type "55" for my VNC port which in fact, did work | [18:46] |
| up_the_irons | that's fine, changed | [18:47] |
| RandalSchwartz | but your choice of 61xx for VNC otherwise as also confusing. :)
for my unencoded VNC anyway, nice to know that I now have a tunneled console, thanks all is good | [18:47] |
| up_the_irons | RandalSchwartz: 5900 - 5999 is not enough, that's only 100 users | [18:47] |
| RandalSchwartz | you have more than 100 users on this box?
or is it all choked through the same IP? for *all* customers? | [18:47] |
| up_the_irons | RandalSchwartz: no, but if I think in terms of individual boxes, I can't migrate VMs very easily, because their VNC port numbers will clash
I have a "pool" of boxes and within that pool, the VNC ports do not overlap different pools can have overlapping ports | [18:48] |
| RandalSchwartz | understood
RandalSchwartz dials down the bitching | [18:49] |
| up_the_irons | LOL | [18:49] |
| RandalSchwartz | so far, very happy | [18:49] |
| up_the_irons | glad to hear | [18:49] |
| RandalSchwartz | I might exceeed inbound bandwidth for first month
transferring crap from old box after that, it'll settle down | [18:50] |
| up_the_irons | roger | [18:50] |
| RandalSchwartz | I have a very carefully crafted rsync script which *should* be getting all items of interest from old box | [18:51] |
| jlgaddis | jlgaddis worked out a nice backup solution
rsync to off-site box, doing a backup there using plain ol' tar, and a backup to s3 using tarsnap | [18:51] |
| RandalSchwartz | it's 44GB of data from the old box, but I'll need to refresh any changes once or twice more before turning old box off | [18:52] |
| up_the_irons | jlgaddis: i've found sending tarballs to S3 quite unreliable; it's like some get there and some just don't. i split them up at the 5G mark of course, also, but to no avail
jlgaddis: so if you do that, just keep on eye on it every now and then; make sure what you think is on there is really on there | [18:52] |
| jlgaddis | i'm using colin's tarsnap. it actually goes to his servers first, once it's safely there it's transferred (by his software) to s3
and, yeah, i checked it from another box after the first full backup =) <-- learned a looooong time ago to test backups =) | [18:55] |
| RandalSchwartz | sending ZFS snapshots is my new preferred offsite backup
someone should set up a disk farm to receive those there's a business model :) up_the_irons? :) | [18:56] |
| up_the_irons | up_the_irons is on it | [18:57] |
| RandalSchwartz | seriously... if you could give me a place to send ZFS incrementals that was across the country from you, I'd pay
because a ZFS snapshot is atomic and a ZFS incremental is the minimal change | [18:58] |
| up_the_irons | I have very limited experience with ZFS. What exactly does a snapshot consist of? Is there a reason you can't just sent it to S3?
when I think of business models, I try to see who can crush it. And right now, with storage, Amazon is crushing a lot of models | [18:59] |
| RandalSchwartz | a zfs snapshot is an exact moment-in-time grab
it costs NOTHING to make | [18:59] |
| up_the_irons | very cool | [19:00] |
| RandalSchwartz | and then you can "zfs send | ssh remote zfs recv" it
but the next step is... make a new snapshot then send only the diffs from old to new to remote and it understands the diffs so you have now moved from atomic point 1 to atomic point 2 | [19:00] |
| up_the_irons | ah I see
so zfs needs a way to see the old diffs also | [19:00] |
| RandalSchwartz | and because it's at the FS level, it's far more efficient than rsync
yeah | [19:01] |
| up_the_irons | yeah
interesting | [19:01] |
| RandalSchwartz | ... http://www.solarisinternals.com/wiki/index.php/ZFS_Best_Practices_Guide | [19:02] |
| up_the_irons | RandalSchwartz: so what would be the requirements? disk space (obviously), ssh shell ?, zfs on destination ?, ...
up_the_irons puts that on the reading list | [19:02] |
| RandalSchwartz | ... http://www.markround.com/archives/38-ZFS-Replication.html
yes - the disk sadly woudl be the same you're making a clone, and keeping it up to date but then you can also sell that service "we have hot machine spares offsite" or you could just say "your disk is cloned here, we can move your entire data wherever you want on a fault" | [19:02] |
| up_the_irons | RandalSchwartz: so you would need a ZFS formatted fs of the same size at the backup site, along with SSH shell access? | [19:04] |
| RandalSchwartz | yeah | [19:04] |
| up_the_irons | anything else? | [19:04] |
| RandalSchwartz | well - depends on if it's failover or just access
if it's failover, same CPUs if it's just access, a way to push that data somewhere you could sell two levels I mean, I'd pay for just access but for some business, they'd want COB level so they'd pay for a hot spare machine | [19:04] |
| up_the_irons | failover could be problematic because the IPs in Los Angeles would be different than, for example, New York, unless I get a long haul, which would get *quite* expensive. or even with newer MLPS "virtual" links between metro areas, it still is kinda expensive; although something worth looking into | [19:06] |
| RandalSchwartz | well - you failover at DNS level
so you require a DNS change for switch | [19:06] |
| up_the_irons | ah gotcha | [19:06] |
| RandalSchwartz | not a big issue
this is catastrophe planning not hot switching | [19:06] |
| up_the_irons | roger | [19:07] |
| RandalSchwartz | I want my data in Los Angeles and "somewhere else"
or I want my data and CPU in Los Angeles and "somewhere else" in the former, I can accept a few hours downtime in the latter, I can accept TTL downtime :) | [19:07] |
| up_the_irons | yeah
hah | [19:07] |
| RandalSchwartz | make sense? | [19:08] |
| up_the_irons | yup | [19:08] |
| RandalSchwartz | this would be a great service for your customers
and great for the SOHOs who need net presence, and some sense of COB ... http://www.markround.com/archives/38-ZFS-Replication.html | [19:08] |
| up_the_irons | right
yeah i'm looking at that one | [19:09] |
| RandalSchwartz | oh - did I paste that already :)
damn - did RandalSchwartz pushes the drink away | [19:10] |
| jlgaddis | failover using dns == fail | [19:10] |
| RandalSchwartz | jlgaddis - suggestion?
by using DNS, I say "www.stonehenge.com = 1.2.3.4 not 4.5.6.7" and that'll take TTL to clean up | [19:10] |
| jlgaddis | yes, but not that aren't costly | [19:11] |
| RandalSchwartz | so for TTL, I lose hits
oh well :) | [19:11] |
| jlgaddis | jlgaddis nods
i guess if you're not losing revenue, it's not a big deal | [19:11] |
| RandalSchwartz | well - that's why my TTL is 15 minutes :)
yeah - it's a trade | [19:12] |
| up_the_irons | i've never really liked DNS failover, but if you can take the TTL downtime, i suppose it works | [19:12] |
| RandalSchwartz | my site is a brochsure site
not a live site and twitter was down far more often than me :) | [19:12] |
| up_the_irons | and I can never trust other people's resolvers to respect my TTL | [19:12] |
| RandalSchwartz | you have to trust things at some level :)
if you really want protection, buy an offsite traffic director | [19:12] |
| up_the_irons | RandalSchwartz: indeed, twitter being down often and facebook getting API DoS'd has lowered everyone's expectation of uptime ;) | [19:13] |
| RandalSchwartz | so traffic goes to minnesota, then LA
or minnesota, then "other place" so yes, there are solutions | [19:13] |
| jlgaddis | we have a hot site several hundred miles away | [19:13] |
| RandalSchwartz | or even better... yes, www.stonehenge.com points to second site, which mostly proxies to first site
until first site goes dow then it takes over primary the nice thing about zfs snaps is they're very very cheap to make and send | [19:14] |
| up_the_irons | RandalSchwartz: i presume that something like MySQL, on top of ZFS, would not necessarily "snapshot" well since it could be in the middle of a transaction; in that case, could a better practice be to replicate MySQL some other way, or possibly not even use MySQL at all (ala the popularity of distributed KV data stores now) | [19:15] |
| RandalSchwartz | I've heard people sending them in tight loops
"make snapshot" "send it" "make snapshot" "send it" up_the_irons - NO that's precisely the cool point of zfs snaps it's ATOMIC it can reproduce the disk PRECISELY midstream so if mysql can handle a random reboot, then it can handle the snapshot restart if it can't, stop using mysql I know postgresql uses WALs, and does this just fine as in, the current transaction will likely fail but everythign committed up to that is done | [19:15] |
| up_the_irons | RandalSchwartz: yeah, i don't know what mysql does if it is in the middle of a transaction and it gets rebooted; i assume the transaction simply is never committed | [19:17] |
| RandalSchwartz | ZFS snapshots are *atomic*
and this makes them far better than rsync replication bytes are either THIS WAY or THAT WAY nothing in between | [19:17] |
| up_the_irons | right | [19:17] |
| RandalSchwartz | zfs create -r zpool@now
that makes snapshots in *all* filesystems at NOW | [19:18] |
| up_the_irons | man, i'm gonna have to play around with some of this stuff, sounds exciting | [19:18] |
| RandalSchwartz | completely atomic
zfs rename zpool@now then zfs create -r zpool@now now I have two snapshots that I can increimtanlly send zfs send -i then zpool@now | ssh remote zpool recv and now I've send the differences over the wire and atomic updates all around repeat as needed even in a tight loop it's pretty exciting | [19:18] |
| up_the_irons | wow, interesting | [19:20] |
| RandalSchwartz | yeah - so the ability to *cheaply* clone a disk over the wire has gotten far better thanks to zfs
so for people wanting geography backups, this is *the* solution now presuming they're willing to use ZFS can you see why I wanted to boot from ZFS now ? | [19:21] |
| up_the_irons | yeah, ZFS is the only dependency (albeit a big one for some)
i do! | [19:22] |
| nichangel | Filesystem Size Used Avail Capacity Mounted on
zroot 2.3T 529M 2.3T 0% / :D | [19:22] |
| RandalSchwartz | nice | [19:22] |
| up_the_irons | i should make a ZFS-enabled default VM and people can order it. Basically it would be the default install w/ ZFS instead of UFS | [19:22] |
| nichangel | I cheated a little, USB key for /boot | [19:23] |
| RandalSchwartz | Yeah - the instructions on that page worked
once I followed them to the letter I'd be available to talk to your clients I'm happy to share what I know in fact, I snapshotted @INSTALL right after building my machine so I could zfs-send you my install :) but it's only really about a half hour to follow the instructions just set the root password to "changeme" and the timezone to PST :) then snapshot that the rest is completely generic | [19:23] |
| up_the_irons | LOL
RandalSchwartz: which instructions page? I remember a few being pasted here | [19:27] |
| RandalSchwartz | uno momento, por favor | [19:28] |
| ... http://wiki.freebsd.org/RootOnZFS/GPTZFSBoot
that's the instructions worked perfectly once I followed them exactl' y my failures were because I skipped a step, or tried to add "zfs export" to the end so I'd say follow those instructions, setting "changeme" for root pw and "PST" for timezone | [19:33] | |
| ballen | why was zfs export of any importance ? | [19:35] |
| RandalSchwartz | and then snapshot that for new installs
ballen - I thought "zfs export" was like "unmount" turns out ists more than that | [19:35] |
| ballen | hah, ah
yea not quite unmount at all | [19:35] |
| RandalSchwartz | so when I stopped doing that, then reboot saw the disks as "attached here"
which is what it is neede | [19:35] |
| ballen | ah
nice | [19:36] |
| RandalSchwartz | export means "the disks are going somewhere else" | [19:36] |
| up_the_irons | ah | [19:36] |
| RandalSchwartz | which is why boot said "no zfs to do here"
so follow those instructions EXACTLY unfortunately, you'll need to do those nce per disk size since the FS is built each time as in - you'll have a 120GB-ZFS and a 60GB-ZFS etc | [19:36] |
| up_the_irons | gotcha
cd $HOME | [19:38] |
| RandalSchwartz | bye | [19:39] |
| up_the_irons | RandalSchwartz: thanks for all the info, I'm going to play around with it | [19:39] |
| RandalSchwartz | "cd" => "cd $HOME" | [19:39] |
| up_the_irons | cd ~ | [19:39] |
| RandalSchwartz | again
redundant :) "cd" | [19:39] |
| up_the_irons | true
but just saying | [19:39] |
| RandalSchwartz | true => : :) | [19:40] |
| up_the_irons | cd
is a little confusing | [19:40] |
| RandalSchwartz | if :; then echo yes; else echo no; fi | [19:40] |
| up_the_irons | interesting | [19:40] |
| RandalSchwartz | go home sir | [19:40] |
| up_the_irons | cd | [19:40] |
| RandalSchwartz | I'm in LA next week
we should meet | [19:40] |
| up_the_irons | :)
let me know about where you'll be; we can grab lunch around Burbank | [19:40] |
| *** | visinin has joined #arpnetworks | [19:42] |
| RandalSchwartz | Wokacno!
Wokcano | [19:42] |
| up_the_irons | LOL
sure | [19:42] |
| RandalSchwartz | across the street from my $DAYJOB | [19:42] |
| up_the_irons | green dragon roll, mmmmMMMm | [19:42] |
| RandalSchwartz | spicy plate :)
I'm at the holiday inn kittycorner from there | [19:42] |
| up_the_irons | i'll be on later, cd $HOME, for real | [19:43] |
| RandalSchwartz | my walk to work is half block
bye! | [19:43] |
| ........ (idle for 37mn) | ||
| *** | ziyourenxiang has quit IRC () | [20:20] |
| .... (idle for 15mn) | ||
| toddf | toddf wonders what it'd take to receive zfs incrementals | [20:35] |
| ballen | zfs receive
piped over ssh zfs send -> ssh -> zfs receive | [20:35] |
| toddf | up_the_irons: long haul? just do the same trick dns servers do, advertise the same address multiple locations... | [20:37] |
| ballen | anycast? | [20:38] |
| ....... (idle for 32mn) | ||
| Sashi | anyone in Canada? | [21:10] |
| *** | ballen is now known as ballen|away | [21:11] |
| .... (idle for 16mn) | ||
| ballen|away is now known as ballen | [21:27] | |
| ...... (idle for 28mn) | ||
| jeev | cd'ing to a variable is pretty funny | [21:55] |
| *** | ballen is now known as ballen|away | [21:58] |
| ............. (idle for 1h2mn) | ||
| up_the_irons | toddf: anycast? oh please no | [23:00] |
| ........ (idle for 35mn) | ||
| can I get some traceroutes on 174.136.96.2
pastie them new block I set up a week ago, not completely reachable yet, and I need to know who it fails for can't reach it from Time Warner / RR (big surprise), but works from Slicehost | [23:35] | |
| jeev | goes hrough
through from krypt | [23:36] |
| up_the_irons | jeev: pastie.org it :) | [23:37] |
| jeev | 2 VLAN3810.BR1.LAX3.VPLS.NET (67.198.200.61) 5.200 ms 0.698 ms 0.557 ms
3 VLAN2099.BR2.LAX2.VPLS.NET (67.198.200.17) 0.384 ms 0.316 ms 0.314 ms 4 mzima.net.any2ix.coresite.com (206.223.143.2) 4.559 ms 5.067 ms 0.452 ms 5 ge0-arpnet.cust.lax07.mzima.net (67.199.135.102) 1.551 ms 1.604 ms 1.817 ms 6 174.136.96.2 (174.136.96.2) 0.697 ms 0.752 ms 0.587 ms :> | [23:37] |
| up_the_irons | oh u whore | [23:37] |
| jeev | too lazy to open browser
i have 40 open already | [23:37] |
| up_the_irons | thanks | [23:37] |
| jeev | jesus man i cant get this system going
i'm gonna try it with crypt, whatever gonna try two more damn things trace through att uverse is gay as usual | [23:37] |
| up_the_irons | i c | [23:42] |
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