Test
looking for new hosting...
go to the website, submit request, get it by the next morning tends to be the operational reality here
yeah - I've already submitted a question though, about whether the 60GB disk is raid10, and if that means I'm effectively spindle-fail protected
I *know* that drives fail.  I just want to know how much of that I need to worry about. :)
RandalSchwartz, i think everything is protected with redundancy at arp
as far as storage, sorry
you are talking bout the vps, right ?
i've compared benchmarks vs my server which is a c heezy little raid1 and arp's vps blows it away
it is raid 10 with good disks
yes
I want to know if the 60GB listed for the $60 plan is protected or raw
if it's not protected, I'll have to do the raid myself
yea, i'm sure it's protected but i guess we can wait and see the response
I've been a sysadm far too long to pretend that spindles don't fry :)
stuff happens ;D
I make a daily backup of my laptop to a Drobo, for example
that way everything is on three spindles
i'm terrible with backing up
hmm.  still no response to my pre-sales inquiry from 90 minutes ago
I guess they're smug enough that they think I won't be looking elsewhere
but better than serverpronto, where my pre-sales inquiry was bounced as *spam* (snicker)
there's one company I won't be dealing with *at all*
heh
i know some people say 24-48 hours for a response
what is your ideal reponse time ?
30 seconds!
hehe
I mean, how else would I answer that?
"no - I like to wait a week after a question"
"really - don't answer me too quickly... it'll just confuse me"
RandalSchwartz: yes, all VPS plans are on a RAID 10.  and please *do* look elsewhere if you want instant response to your emails.  I don't have sales staff 24/7 here just to answer questions
I'm kidding of course.  Please see the context.
However, I had expected an answer within a few hours on a weekday.
I think that's fair
RandalSchwartz: ah ;)  thought you were serious, b/c some people really are that way; i tell them to go elsewhere and be someone else's problem ;)
RandalSchwartz: sure, a few hours is fair
Hey - I've been on the service desk far too many times to be unreasonable about that. :)
sysadmin for Intel for a number of years.
that's where I wrote "Programming Perl" and "Learning Perl"
nice
Hi RandalSchwartz
hi ballen
so you guys and rootbsd are both on the short list
@unilogic from Twitter
RandalSchwartz: you wrote those?
yup
that and 255 magazine articles about Perl
wow nice
so I'm looking where to move stonehenge.com next
RandalSchwartz: is bit of a super star.
I moved insightcruises.com to opensolaris on EC2
here - I'll help - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Randal_L._Schwartz
How's EC2 working out?
but I'm a bit dismayed at the number of ports for opensolaris
and stonehenge.com has been on openbsd for many years
RandalSchwartz: isn't EC2 a bit expensive if the VM has to be running 24/7/365? (rather than creating a pool of VMs for a specific job, and then shutting them down)
well - that's another part of the issue
although the "reserved instance" cost brought it more in line
ah
as in, the price for a reserved instance running 24x7 is about like your VPS plans
I agree that FreeBSD's ports are awesome.
so I want ZFS for / *and* I want a lot of ports
sounds like FreeBSD 8 is how I want to go
yeah there's a couple guys running ZFS in root here
I prefer theo's paranoia, but that also means I'll never boot from ZFS if he has his say
Heh
and as long as it's not Linux... :)
Mind you, I played pool with Linus last week, and beat him at 9-ball 7 games to 2
but that doesn't mean I have to prefer Linux :)
so the disk is RAID10, and everything else is nicely redundant
the $60/month plan plus $8 for IPs sounds good
unless you're willing to give me the $90/month plan for say, $75 and frequent mentions on FLOSS Weekly. :)
(FLOSS Weekly = 50,000 downloads now)
up_the_irons: Would be a lot of PR
It's how I know of RandalSchwartz
and of course a prominent mention at the footers of my 255 magazine articles online
Just might want to be ready for an influx of orders
RandalSchwartz: sounds like a fair trade
you must need a lot of disk ;)
Well... I may be moving insightcruises.com back again
and they have some big media files
we're burning about 40G on EC2 EBS right now
gotcha
ah ok
and you can never have enough disk, right? :)
ok,  so I'll fill out the paper work, and in the comment say "see Garry for discount" eh?
that's right
RandalSchwartz: Love FLOSS Weekly btw
RandalSchwartz: sure
thanks ballen
I have fun doing it
hopefully, we'll get sponsorship soon
then it won't just be a labor of love.
Yea didn't google sponsor ya at some point
OK - order placed
thank you for being proactive.
By the way, I'm contracted to yellowbot right now, so I'm in the LA area 1 week a month
including two weeks from now
thanks, and my phone just buzzed from the order... ;)
there ya go!
RandalSchwartz: Hope ya like it, be a customer for quite awhile now both business and personal uses.
RandalSchwartz: you're running opensolaris on ec2 or some *bsd varient?
I've been*
openbsd on sprocket for stonehenge.com for 6 years
opensol on EC2 for insightcruises for about six months
I looked at ec2 also, but prices are prohibitive indeed
and opensol is good, but the ports aren't there
up_the_irons - did you see my tweet about why I'm *not* picking serverpronto?
... how not to treat potential customers: simple pre-sales inquiry to sales@serverpronto.com was rejected AS SPAM based on content! #lose
ack. I came here for pricing, and am stuck with features. ssh to serial console and power cycle a vm remotely rules ;-)
Yeah - that's looking good
RandalSchwartz: solid spam filter setup then ;-)
I don't consider inquiries from people wanting to give me money... spam.
Yea someone messed up
RandalSchwartz: hehe, i didn't see the tweet, but that's funny ;)
up_the_irons: Has anyone done a freebsd-upgrade from 7 to 8 sucessfully?
ballen: not sure
ok - why the name "arpnetworks"
obviously not from Address Resolution Protocol. :)
just something to be early in the alpha list?
Good question for up_the_irons
RandalSchwartz: pretty uch
*much
The guy I started ARP Networks with and I were sitting down by the courthouse about to register our biz name.  We didn't have a name and just brainstormed stuff.  We picked "ARP Networks".  I kinda regret never coming up with proper acronym for "ARP", but one day my wife suggested "All the Right Pieces".  Heh, cheesy, but works ;)
ahh.
kinda like how I came up with Stonehenge
but there actually *is* a story
my previous job was Sequent Computer Systems Inc (this was in 1985)
I liked how that spelled SCSI
so when I started, I picked a name that also did that
Stonehenge Consulting Services, Inc
There ya go
hah nice
of course, what's scsi now?
except scsi-over-fiber and stuff. :)
power over wifi :)
Serial attached scsi
yeah SAS is big now
expensive, but big
Love my SAS drives
They get the job done!
Yea quite expensive
ok - now to go focus on $dayjob to pay for this new hosting :)
Fortunately I'm not paying. :)
RandalSchwartz: have fun :)
Alright dinner time. up_the_irons let me know if you need any help with the potential trouble I've caused ;-)
ballen: sure will :)
you're already getting twitter buzz from this
... rvbelzen: @merlyn I saw the awesome deal that ArpNetworks offered. What I especially liked was that they don't oversell the RAM space.
... sevanjaniyan: @merlyn oh sweet, ipv6 block allocation by default :)
my 5500 followers pay attention to what I do. :)
I'm here as a matter of fact because of merlyn
see - there's one now!
(your $5 will be in paypal shortly, thanks for coming in on queue)
oops - /msg :)
lol, we just like to stalk him is all
I'm thinking the first VPS would be enough for me, but I'm not sure about the RAM level I'd need, never actually measured it.
do you use mostly short words, or long ones? :)
and back
this time not on my iPhone
RandalSchwartz: I'm from PA remember, anything bigger than "the" is long.
Arenlor you could always upgrade your VPS down the road if you end up swapping
swapping in the memory sense
RandalSchwartz: oh wow
hotness
maybe I should pre-order another server cuz looks like the new one will get full quick ;)
remember that when I ask for the next favor. :)
up_the_irons: whats the url to FBI's log?
RandalSchwartz: certainly :)
ballen: http://irclogger.arpnetworks.com/irclogger_logs
simply irclogger.arpnetworks.com, is enough
ballen: It's just, I'd probably use Debian with LAMP and would want to setup an IRC server
redir..
Arenlor so probably not a lot of need for memory
ballen: Not likely. As I said, never actually measured it.
so then go with what you want to spend then
thanks Garry
ballen: If I went with what I want to spend I'd never find a host :P
LOL
lol ok
You say "Dedicated IPs", can you extrapolate?
don't worry, one day Google will offer VPS's for free and crush another industry ;)  I'll invite you all to my hardware auction ;)
cablehead: ^^ give Sumbry the message ;)
up_the_irons: haha
Arenlor: no biggie, just that you get your own dedicated subnet (/30, /29, etc...), not shared among others.  I know that isn't very descriptive
I just mean, how many? I'd want 2-3 if possible, I currently pay 1.75 a month for one lol
it's on the pricing page
select a plan
it says you get a /30 for free
a /29 for $4
and a /28 for $8
Ah, never got that far, I don't click funny looking links without finding out more info.
Arenlor: the breakdown is $0.50 per IP, but they come in subnets.  So /30 is 1 usable IP (included).  /29 is 5 usable IPs ($4 extra), /28 is 13 usable IPs ($8 extra)
Arenlor - chicken and egg then
sometimes you have to click funny looking links for info :)
I just figure they can't charge me until I give a credit card :)
True, then again, Steve Gibson would call me paranoid.
i need to make a pricing details page.  List extra IPs, extra bandwidth, re-install services, etc...
Steve Gibson.  Bah. :)
I rarely work with subnets and all though
you have to throw out the all 0's and all 1's
so /30 is 4 minus 2 = 2
Arenlor: /30 is technically 4: 1) network number, 2) gateway, 3) usable, 4) broadcast
and /29 is 8 minus 2 = 6
oh - minus 3
forgot gateway
ohai
hmm probably on New Years (or the Eve) I'll have the money to order. My current host is very very cheap and all, but their support sucks.
oh Garry, you know Giles? cool
it's a Small World. :)
RandalSchwartz: i was gonna say, *you* know Giles? ;)
heh
I know everybody :)
RandalSchwartz: yeah, Giles used to work for my friend's company (entp) and he did some hacking with us in the office
when you write a couple of books that every sysadmin and webdev had on their shelf in the mid-90s, you get to know a lot of people.
RandalSchwartz: I thought everyone knew Giles ;)  When you tweet as much as that man, it is hard not to get noticed :)
RandalSchwartz: yeah, i bet
Giles did some stuff about Smalltalk Seaside, as I recall.
Arenlor: who are you with now? (if you don't mind saying)
RandalSchwartz: ah yeah, i remember him talking about that
speaking of that, do you even think Sprocket will notice me leaving? :)
up_the_irons: http://iwebfusion.net/
RandalSchwartz: who knows..  these guys? -- http://www.sprocketnetworks.com/
Arenlor: roger
yeah
that's where stonehenge.com is right now
Arenlor: yeah, heard of 'em
and where insightcruises was until a few months ago
RandalSchwartz: gotcha
I do like this:
...  3:53PM  up 423 days,  8:36, 1 user, load averages: 1.07, 0.84, 0.81
RandalSchwartz: well that's quite impressive
that's my openbsd box.  Haven't upgraded in 3 cycles
but theo is paranoid enough :)
you should really upgrade your kernel oh wait not linux :)
yeah. :)
no "bug of the week"
a few local exploits to worry about
but I trust everyone on the box
yeah, my VM hosting boxes have terrible uptime b/c I need to do a security patch every 30 days it seems
what happens when you have to reboot the host?
do we get a downtime blip?
up_the_irons: if no one has local access, it's not really necessary
everyone's jailed in their VMs
RandalSchwartz: i declare a maintenance window, notify all customers on that box, <wait until window>, shutdown all VMs, reboot, VMs start automatically
up_the_irons: dont tell me that :\
ok - so I won't get huge uptimes.  And I should be ready for a reboot.  Got it.
synapze: sorry, it is a reality.  I'd rather have 10 minutes of downtime every now and then than to get hacked
precisely
true
and it's you worrying, not me. :)
note to self: dont run an ircd
lol
if I'm out on one of those cruises (insightcruises.com), I don't care :)
up_the_irons: Just wondering, what IS your uptime %?
Arenlor: on what exactly?  it's really hard to say
10 minutes a month is only 4 9's
but it depends on whether you calculate expected or total downtile
time
yeah that's true
up_the_irons: 10 mins monthly isn't bad, but I had a host for a month that was down daily, and iwebfusion took a dive for 8 hours the one time.
err... *unexpected* vs total
More I'm just worried about what your track record has been
Arenlor: I would say budget for 10 mins per month of downtime.  Daily downtime has never happened, nor has 8 hours.
I'd like to think my track record has been very good
I must say though, that if I ever move to dedicated instead of VPS iwebfusion totally has me. Premium servers. 100% network uptime, 0% packet loss SLA. Providers: MCI, Savvis, AT&T, Sprint
wish there was some univeral measurement for all aspects of uptime / reachability.  A downed network can be very different from a downed host, and each have different implications (in the former, all hosts are  unreachable, in the latter, only 1 host is unrechable)
True, but the question is, how bad is it if that one host goes down.
and for network outages, a lot can be partial (can reach from japan but not from europe, for example)
Arenlor: i don't recall iwebfusion having a lot of "they suck" reports on WHT, so yeah they're probably fine to go w/ for dedicated servers, and their provider list sounds good, although probably on the expensive side
Arenlor I've been with Arp since August, I think Garry has had two or three maintenance windows since then
I'm actually not sure how iwebfusion manages to make money.
I just thought, there's the "blow up factor" for downtime too -- a host that never does any maintenance or security patches can have great uptime, b/c they never need to reboot a box, and then one day they get hacked and it "blows up".  Mass attrition due to downtime.  it's like all the downtime saved from not doing proper maintenance gets balled up into  one big massive incident
never change the oil on your car, then after 50K miles your engine will seize
yea you just need to have a system that can be patched and have no downtime ;-)
there's some conservation of energy factor going on there...
its like changing the oil while driving
ballen: That's called Windows right?
LOL
What Could Possibly Go Wrong (TIM)
(TM)
nah Solaris can do it
Never played with solaris so I don't know if you're serious
ballen: there's work being done to allow kernel upgrades w/o a reboot on Linux. Read about it, would like to try it out in a test environment.  but nothing I could see being production ready for about a year
i mean, it might work great, but i'd rather not be the guinnea pig
yea I reaaaally don't want to do that with Linux
agreed
however live migration of VMs
The idea makes me very afraid.
;-) would solve the problem
man, i've tried and tried to make live migration possible
Having to reboot into the new kernel just somehow feels solid.
yea?
DRBD was looking good, and it does indeed work for Linux VMs, but there are some inherent problems with DRBD so I'm not going to continue using it
Maybe you could hire RandalSchwartz to make something in Perl for you?
Or smalltalk
there's a trade-off, the technology to make live migration possible, currently, also makes your system more complex, and therefore, more things can go wrong
so I'd rather stick with what I know to be solid
it's like how flying in a twin-engine plane is actually *more* dangerous than a single engine plane
somewhat counter-intuitively
<<== also a pilot
(1) more things to go wrong
That's why I don't fly.
(2) more likely you'll ignore marginal things because "you have a backup"
it's also one of a few reasons I believe that "alias rm rm -i" is wrong
but go ahead, call me an old fuddy duddy :)
'alias dir "rm -rf /"'
really? Panic and such?
ballen, vmware is cool
he doesn't fly because I'm a pilot? :)
Exactly
Like how none of you would drive if you found out that I do.
Just not safe.
LOL
is "putting" safe?
I don't know, Leo putts around.
jeev: yea you like it?
up_the_irons: when you add rrd graphs, do they show up in your portal or ... ?
jlgaddis: the login info to a separate page shows up in the Portal
jlgaddis: if  yours isn't there, I still need to handle the request.  I've been backed up b/c of the holidays
ballen, very cool
but i can't do software raid
RandalSchwartz: You doing karaoke for New Year Eve?
up_the_irons: yeah, you responded and asked for the uuid, but it doesn't look like it's been set up yet.  not a big deal, though.  totally low priority.
not sure what my last-day plans are
jlgaddis: roger
i'm going /away to handle some provisioning and support req's, bbl
jeev: have you googled around to see if you can setup software raid by the cmd line?
jeev: you can do software raid from OpenBSD *grin*
up_the_irons: buddy of mine just signed up with you earlier today.  he's anxiously awaiting his vm to be provisioned.  =)
hahahah toddf, i swear you're an openbsd salesman
toddf, talking about vmware esxi.
Arenlor - heh
RandalSchwartz, did you get your answer ?
indeed
from The Man himself
and I've now signed up
and got two of my followers (or more) to already be thinking about coming here
... http://twitter.com/merlyn/statuses/7137652779
just like charlie manson
oh wait, that was someone else
sharon tate
RandalSchwartz, you look like an actor
and twitter is gay
jeev: what can I say, I use it, I develop it, it works for me, you couldn't figure out how to do software raid, I know OpenBSD can do it, sorry one has to drive 'bioctl' manually to get it started from shell, but it does work
which actor?
lol, RandalSchwartz is mixing up his murders
some white guy
heh
I do indeed look very white. )
I presume you mean gay as in "happy"? :)
And he sounds like Kermit.
some of the time
For some reason you often sound Kermitty on FLOSS
well - yeah, Kermit is not that far from my natural voice
Over karaoke stream you've always sounded a bit deeper though.
I'm getting a Blue Yeti mic
should improve the way I sound on home broadcasts.
might even bring it on karaoke sessions
Nice
hello
Test
nice
anyone here?
i can't get my phone to connect to freenode
its verizon
what phone
ah
works for me
its a blackberry
yeah its weird
it used to work
hi dongs
sup coil
to those who asked for uptime stats, I signed up to host-tracker about a month ago: http://host-tracker.com/website-monitoring-info/3801557
www.arpnetworks.com runs on the same hardware / VPS system that I provision for customers; i "eat my own dog food" (i hate that phrase, but it communicates the point)
i dont use my vps much but i can say that the last downtime i remember was the scheduled upgrade months back