[00:01] <jeev> ahh
[00:01] <jeev> heh
[00:05] <jeev> grr i hate tabbed browsing
[01:05] <mick_laptop> jeev: i'd like to know what their patchset looks like
[01:05] <mick_laptop> the iron...thing
[01:05] <mick_laptop> jeev: I was actually refering to an upgrade to a decent OS ;)
[01:06] <mick_laptop> Linux for example :)
[01:29] <jeev> eh
[01:29] <jeev> it's cool
[01:29] <jeev> i like windows for desktop use
[01:29] <jeev> i'm too used to it
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[02:12] <up_the_irons> sroute: do you know of a doc that explains how the .init and .lock files work? (as in /dev/ttyu0.init|lock)
[02:12] <up_the_irons> having the hardest time getting "hupcl" to set on /dev/ttyu0
[02:13] <up_the_irons> stty < /dev/ttyu0.init hupcl
[02:13] <up_the_irons> stty < /dev/ttyu0
[02:13] <up_the_irons> still shows "-hupcl"
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[06:38] <mike-burns> lol@Linux as a decent OS.
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[13:29] <up_the_irons> mike-burns: the thing is, Linux is not an OS.  It is just a kernel, and you can pick any distro to give you the "OS" and whether it sucks or not.  Installing a boot loader on Linux (e.g. GRUB, an add-on, and LILO before that) vs. installing a boot loader on FreeBSD (bsdlabel -wB) makes one painfully aware of this fact.  GRUB = absolute pain in the ass, feels separated from the OS, non-coherent.
[13:29] <up_the_irons>   bsdlabel -wB = integrated with OS, coherent, a F*CKING SIMPLE
[13:34] <up_the_irons> This isn't a flaw in Linux, it is a flaw in expectation.  people expect Linux as an OS to feel coherent and integrated, but it's not.  The *distribution* aims to do that, but no distro I know feels very integrated.
[13:36] <up_the_irons> Debian does a better job at package management than the others; and Ubuntu builds on top of that and adds more features.  This is why I like those two distros when I use Linux
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[16:14] <amdprophet> Hi there, I was wondering if anyone has ran ZFS on one of the VPS's before
[16:15] <amdprophet> I was thinking it could really come in handy if we were using it on /usr/home and used snapshots
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[16:40] <sroute> up_the_irons: sorry, didn't see your Q earlier; did you sort out your serial .init issue? I'm afraid I don't have anything to add on that one, its been awhile since I've needed to dive in there. Sure isn't much in man or docs on that... some examples in the source itself http://sources.freebsd.org/RELENG_8/src/etc/rc.d/serial
[16:42] <up_the_irons> amdprophet: I think islandfox has done some ZFS work on his VM
[16:42] <up_the_irons> sroute: ah thanks for that
[16:43] <islandfox> amdprophet: yeah, I've had a ZFS-on-root VPS running for a bit under 14 hours now :)
[16:43] <up_the_irons> sroute: i have not figured it out yet; "-D" in /boot.config gives me a perfectly usable boot loader over serial, but as soon as getty starts up on /dev/ttyu0, it is toast
[16:43] <islandfox> so far so good, but I can't really comment on stability yet...
[16:43] <up_the_irons> sroute: i'm using the exact same setup as on 7.2, where sio was used with /dev/ttyd0
[16:43] <up_the_irons> sroute: and it worked fine with /dev/ttyd0
[16:43] <islandfox> up_the_irons: did you see my reply? it looked like a qemu bug
[16:44] <up_the_irons> islandfox: i did, but the thing is, it works fine with the boot loader; no problems.  i'm wondering if something in /etc/rc.d/serial is changing the stty flags and making it not work right
[16:44] <up_the_irons> islandfox: if it was a qemu bug, i'd think it wouldn't work with the boot loader
[16:45] <islandfox> up_the_irons: somewhere for that bug I think I read that it caused it to work for a while, and then get stuck after a while
[16:45] <amdprophet> islandfox, how were you able to get ZFS-on-root running? did you use the fixit environment?
[16:47] <islandfox> amdprophet: I used a UFS boot partition as described at http://wiki.freebsd.org/ZFSOnRoot
[16:47] <up_the_irons> islandfox: it gets stuck at exactly the same spot, right after getty prints "FreeBSD/amd64"
[16:47] <islandfox> amdprophet: prepared the disk image from a full freebsd system rather than the fixit CD, although I did tweak it with that later to finish the process
[16:48] <amdprophet> islandfox: alright thanks, i'll probably end up trying that, ordering a VPS tonight
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[16:49] <amdprophet> islandfox: one more quesiton, did you have to request any special initial setup from the arpnetwork staff?
[16:49] <up_the_irons> amdprophet: islandfox sent me an entire QEMU image to be used as his disk ;)
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[16:50] <amdprophet> ah cool!
[16:51] <islandfox> up_the_irons: interesting... I might go ahead and see if I can reproduce it here eventually, with and without the patch to see if that is it or not
[16:51] <up_the_irons> islandfox: cool
[16:53] <up_the_irons> islandfox: for the time being, I may try to just get sio enabled and drop uart
[16:53] <amdprophet> up_the_irons: was it just a one-time thing or do you allow anyone to send you their own QEMU image?
[16:54] <up_the_irons> amdprophet: i generally allow it but it comes with the disclaimer that if you do anything that hasn't been well tested and your VM crashes, well, that sucks for you ;)
[16:54] <up_the_irons> amdprophet: islandfox is the only person that has ever sent a custom image, so... not much of an issue
[16:55] <up_the_irons> his image seems to be working at least for the last 18 hours or so... and is the 2nd person on FreeBSD 8.0-REL right now
[16:56] <amdprophet> Alright neat, I'll have to see if I can get a QEMU image made then... should I just note that I have a QEMU image in the additional notes on the order form?
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[16:59] <up_the_irons> amdprophet: yeah, I'll create some scratch pad space for you to upload it.  Be sure to gzip it.   I'll tell you the exact image size after you order.
[17:01] <up_the_irons> amdprophet: but also, if this is easier, you should know that you can also boot the install DVD in the VPS and do your own custom install that way; i have that stuff already set up.  And is generally the way people do custom installs.  Seems easier than creating an off-site image
[17:01] <amdprophet> Ah I didn't realize we had the option of booting the install DVD ourselves
[17:01] <amdprophet> Can we boot any ISO then?
[17:01] <up_the_irons> for islandfox, he had some requirement where that wouldn't work; but I encourage the DVD installer if it'd work out
[17:02] <up_the_irons> amdprophet: yeah, just point me to the ISO.  I already have all the standard FreeBSD, OpenBSD, etc.. ISOs
[17:02] <up_the_irons> Debian, Ubuntu, etc...
[17:02] <up_the_irons> (also)
[17:03] <amdprophet> I'm taking a look at this to prepare for the freebsd install -> http://mfsbsd.vx.sk/
[17:03] <up_the_irons> amdprophet: but again, I only support the "standard" set of ISOs (amd64 with 7.1, 7.2 or 8.0 - REL)
[17:04] <up_the_irons> amdprophet: I'd be more than happy to boot one of your choosing, just know I haven't tested it
[17:04] <up_the_irons> mfsBSD looks OK
[17:05] <amdprophet> It's an ISO for preparing a system for ZFS-on-root in FreeBSD 8 I beleive
[17:05] <up_the_irons> ah OK
[17:06] <up_the_irons> amdprophet: so when you place your order, just put that URL into the "Additional" section, as a reminder
[17:06] <up_the_irons> i have to go afk, will be back around 11PM PST
[17:06] <amdprophet> Okay will do, I'm going to grab some dinner so I'll be back a bit later too to get things figured out, thanks!
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[20:13] <islandfox> up_the_irons: the image I uploaded, configured for serial console and using qemu option -nographic, appears to reliably work with qemu-0.11.1, and produces no output after "Setting hostuuid" with qemu-0.11.0
[20:13] <sroute> up_the_irons: ps on the vm I emailed you about - if you need to restart it at any time, go right ahead. I'll be back later tonight myself here.
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[21:17] <up_the_irons> islandfox: OK, thanks for the info.  Unfortunately, updating QEMU isn't really an option for my production machines.  The serial console works fine in Linux, OpenBSD and FreeBSD 7.2 (and lower) VMs.  I'm just going to tell the kernel to use sio instead of uart
[21:17] <up_the_irons> (the FreeBSD 8.0-REL kernel, that is)
[21:17] <up_the_irons> sroute: I shouldn't need to restart it.  Did it misbehave or something?
[21:18] <amdprophet> up_the_irons: I got my co-worker to order the VPS, I can't wait to try it out
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[21:19] <up_the_irons> amdprophet: :)  thanks!
[21:20] <amdprophet> no problem, as soon as I saw the features and specs of the VPS's you offer I knew I was going to buy one from you
[21:20] <amdprophet> Linode, VPSLink, etc., don't offer FreeBSD and they're more expensive in a lot of ways
[21:24] <up_the_irons> yeah, they are more expensive
[21:24] <up_the_irons> same with Slicehost
[21:25] <up_the_irons> looks like VPSLink has a lot of network issues also: http://twitter.com/vpslink
[21:25] <amdprophet> We're currently with VPSLink and we've had nothing but problems
[21:26] <amdprophet> The support is decent but our box takes 2 hours (not joking) to boot up
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[21:28] <amdprophet> Our speeds to your network are quite a bit faster too. We're in Vancouver, BC and our VPSLink box is in Seattle.
[21:32] <up_the_irons> amdprophet: 2 hours?!
[21:32] <up_the_irons> amdprophet: what is your VPSLink IP, if you don't mind sharing; i wanna see what network it is on
[21:33] <amdprophet> Sure, give me a moment
[21:33] <up_the_irons> it is a sign of inexperience when you use a switch that can stop forwarding traffic and requires a reboot: http://twitter.com/vpslink/status/6447638237
[21:34] <amdprophet> 66.249.9.115
[21:34] <up_the_irons> thanks
[21:34] <amdprophet> np
[21:34] <amdprophet> We've probably had 3 - 5 major outages with VPSLink in the past year... each time being over an hour long
[21:35] <up_the_irons> ouch
[21:35] <amdprophet> I understand that downtime happens, but they didn't even let people know the first couple of times until everything was fixed.
[21:35] <up_the_irons> looks like they are on Spry
[21:35] <up_the_irons> lack of communication, typical
[21:36] <amdprophet> Hehe
[21:44] <up_the_irons> amdprophet: send me a traceroute from vancouver to me when you get a chance, i'd like to check it out
[21:44] <up_the_irons> amdprophet: did vpslink say why your VM took 2 hours to boot? ;)
[21:49] <amdprophet> No, but I'm guessing it's because they load up each box with way too many VMs
[21:52] <amdprophet> http://pastie.org/734955
[21:53] <amdprophet> We get less latency to VPSLink, but I remember it being quite inconsistent
[21:53] <amdprophet> at least the last time I checked
[21:54] <amdprophet> http://pastie.org/734956
[21:55] <amdprophet> We were ranging between 300 and 2000 ms with them a few weeks back (Not during their network outage)
[22:04] <up_the_irons> amdprophet: oh, i bet this is what happens, because I used to use the proprietary Virtuozzo way back in the day.  Each VM on OpenVZ probably starts up sequentially, like virtozzo did.  It takes a good 2-3 min for a VM to boot.  so if you're #50, you're screwed ;)
[22:05] <up_the_irons> amdprophet: yeah it seems like less latency to vpslink atm
[22:05] <up_the_irons> your packets will pick up 20ms going from seattle to los angeles
[22:07] <amdprophet> 50ms is still great, latency isn't an issue for the apps we're running
[22:08] <up_the_irons> cool
[22:09] <amdprophet> I'm going to try and get some sleep. I've had some crazy insomnia the past few months.
[22:14] <up_the_irons> amdprophet: g'night; the VPS will be ready by the time you wake up
[22:15] <amdprophet> alright, thanks!!
[22:24] <up_the_irons> np
[22:24] <up_the_irons> cd $starbucks
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