#arpnetworks 2009-11-25,Wed

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WhoWhatWhen
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srouteup_the_irons: are you around Garry?
just noting very sluggish response, 3:10 am pacific. I'm sure I've been working on the box at these hours before ;-) and not noted that; thought for a moment it was my software (!) but no. Just an FYI in case it is something you aren't aware of.
hmnn, it's back now.
[03:07]
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jeevi forgot, why can't we install 8.0 bsd ? [10:29]
ballenhasn't been tested yet [10:29]
jeevah [10:29]
ballenso do a inplace upgrade and let me konw how it goes
know
[10:29]
jeevi'll try it on my own kvm box here
8.0 iso has been out two days, updating shows 112509 as the release date, nothing announced yet
[10:30]
ballenyea [10:30]
mike-burns8.0 isn't out yet. [10:30]
ballenyea it is
just not announced
[10:30]
jeevget it from torrents
i'm seeding that shiet
[10:30]
ballenhttp://torrents.freebsd.org:8080/ [10:31]
BarberRonnyis it out! [10:31]
ballenlol need to follow the right people on the twitters [10:32]
jeevjeebus i hate twitter [10:32]
BarberRonnyme too [10:32]
mike-burnsNow I don't know what it means for software to be released. [10:32]
ballenloves twitter [10:32]
BarberRonnyits not announced yet.
mainpage still says rc3
i guess they wait a day till the mirrors catchup
[10:32]
jeevyea but on the installation or if you cvsup.. you can see 112509 for 8.0-release in /usr/src/UPDATING [10:33]
BarberRonnywhats the best way to update from 7.2 ?? freebsd-upgrade or just cvsup ? [10:33]
ballenand likely making sure there is no massive bugs
freebsd-upgrade
[10:33]
BarberRonnyi never tried that [10:34]
ballenby far a better wa
y
[10:34]
BarberRonnyk
i just have 25mb left in /
hope it doesnt conflict
[10:34]
ballenthat might be an issue [10:34]
BarberRonnywell its how the vps was installed.. [10:34]
jeevyea i'm annoyed i didn't request just a single slice / [10:34]
BarberRonny512mb in / and i updated a kernel (so kernel+kernel.old=almost 512) [10:34]
ballenso remove kernel.old [10:35]
jeev/dev/ad0s1a 496M 421M 35M 92% /
same here
[10:35]
BarberRonnyyes
shut be alright
[10:35]
ballenalso make sure /root is cleaned up [10:35]
BarberRonnygood point, but i only use /usr [10:35]
ballenyea [10:36]
BarberRonnyoh man can't wait until fbsd8 rel is out officially [10:36]
ballenI'd consider it officially out
the FreeBSD security officer announced to seed it on Twitter
[10:36]
mike-burnsLink? [10:37]
ballenone sec
https://twitter.com/cperciva/statuses/6009698830
[10:38]
mike-burnsHot. [10:39]
ballenAlso related to why its not announced yet: https://twitter.com/cperciva/statuses/5974910827
he's the guy that wrote freebsd-update btw
[10:39]
BarberRonnyhm i wonder where freebsd-upgrade is on my system now! [10:41]
ballenfreebsd-update [10:42]
BarberRonnyah [10:42]
ballenfreebsd-update -r 8.0-RELEASE upgrade; freebsd-update install; reboot; freebsd-update install; reboot; [10:42]
BarberRonnymaybe first try fetch? [10:46]
up_the_ironssroute: yeah, i got an alert around that time
sroute: haven't had time to investigate; i suspect main transit may have dropped bgp session and backup took over (during the transition, packet loss will occur as bgp tables converge around the world)
[10:47]
ballenBarberRonny: http://www.daemonology.net/blog/2009-07-11-freebsd-update-to-8.0-beta1.html [10:48]
BarberRonnythx ballen [10:48]
ballenreplace 8.0-BETA1 with 8.0-RELEASE [10:48]
BarberRonnyyes
is it already on update.freebsd.org, the -rel?
[10:49]
ballenshould be
I think it was there first
[10:50]
up_the_ironsballen: thanks for the update cheat sheet [10:54]
ballennp [10:54]
up_the_ironsi might upgrade my personal freebsd vm [10:54]
ballenyea let me know how it goes [10:55]
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up_the_ironswill do [10:57]
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srouteup_the_irons: I figured it was transit related; nothing running on my VM was affected. [12:26]
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[12:27]
up_the_ironssroute: roger [12:28]
coilblah, i'm trying to make openvpn work :/ [12:29]
up_the_ironsUp/Down: 12:39:11 [12:29]
coilwell it works, i can connect, but i want all traffic to go out on the vpn, that isn't working [12:29]
up_the_ironsyup, bgp session reset 12 hours and 39 minutes ago [12:29]
coildns specifically [12:29]
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jeevdamn man i got a sick quote for space in LA
it's a little more expensive than a place i'm at but it's 3k miles closer
i can't do a 40 server move properly
so i can't take it
[12:31]
up_the_ironsjeev: there's lots of cheap space in LA, but it is indeed "cheap" [12:33]
jeevno, the amount of bandwidth, cage space, power and ips are great.. at level3 in tustin [12:33]
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up_the_ironssroute: indeed at 1:10 AM PST I got this: EMERGENCY NOTICE: Backbone Instability and software downgrade (ticket #340065)
sroute: so they downgraded and the session bounced
sroute: if you didn't get disconnected, and only saw lag, I'm pretty impressed actually ;) my whole main transit can die and customers stay up, w00t
[12:37]
srouteWasn't disconnected. Cool.
i.e. tty still connected from Friday Fri10PM 9:36 tail -n 40 - ......
[12:40]
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up_the_ironssroute: awesome [12:43]
srouteI might not have noted but was editing some code in vim remotely. One bad thing though... [12:43]
nc__up_the_irons: hey i send you an email [12:44]
sroutethe issue was resolved too quickly for me to decide to get some sleep instead so I ended up doing an all-nighter. lol [12:44]
up_the_ironssroute: lol [12:44]
jeevi wish i could code. [12:44]
up_the_ironsnc__: roger [12:44]
sroutejeev: you can, but you have to start somehwere. Use ruby or python and you'll get there. [12:45]
jeevha
i'm impatient and lazy. good luck
[12:45]
srouteSo is anyone running FreeBSD 8 on a VM as yet? [12:45]
jeevi can try it now on a local box [12:46]
srouteI'm impatient and prone to distraction which is why I do an awful lot of work in Python; let's me get things done quickly before I run out of steam or focus. ;-) [12:46]
jeevcharter has 60 megs for 89/month rigt now
but charter sucks
[12:47]
nc__jeev: sroute gives good advice... python (even moreso with ruby i would say) syntax is really simple and gives you a nice place to start learning the logic part of programming [12:47]
srouteAnd ruby is the same. Just pick whichever fits your brain better and stick with it. eventually you'll get there. [12:47]
nc__jeev: once you get a grip on the logic part of it, you can learn any other language you'd like, and just use the proper syntax to match the logic of whatever you're trying to write [12:47]
jeevyea i know
but you dont know me, if i get 5 lines down, i'll set a goal to make something amazing, like to take over the world
with printf capabilities only
[12:48]
nc__haha
sounds just like me when i started :pPPPPp
[12:48]
sroutenc__: absolutely... I have no reservations about recommending Ruby either; I like to push new folks to both Ruby and Python because the syntax of one or the other usually does feel more comfortable, especially to a newbie. [12:48]
nc__yeah for sure
i like python a lot
[12:49]
sroutejeev: my code is running the world already... it's only about 20 lines of Python. Not well tested. Prone to bugs. [12:49]
jeevbastage [12:49]
srouteand crashes.
here's a simpler example: class RuleTheWorld: pass
[12:49]
jeevmy friend has a system that keeps shutting off, randomly
where do i even begin to check what that is ? it's not thermal
i'm guessing it could be th epower supply
[12:51]
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nc__heheh [12:51]
srouteok, wasn't that funny. Shutting off randomly? Could even be a disk failing - I've seen that. What OS? [12:51]
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jeevdoze. raid 1 [12:52]
sroutehmnn. [12:52]
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jeevshit, they're SAS drives
i cant put it in my thermaltake blacx
[13:26]
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jeevi had the drives unplugged and before connecting the monitor
when i turned it on, it was turning on and off, i can hear it.. like almost like popping
[13:42]
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[14:27]
up_the_ironsthis ain't bad: http://www.linux.com/learn/tutorials/243002-vim-201-an-intermediate-guide-to-vim
I'm digging abbreviations. I knew of them, but didn't really get into 'em. The other stuff i pretty much knew already
mmm...
:ab rfc RFC
i'm liking that
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up_the_ironsanyone tried Cucumber? http://cukes.info/
thoughts?
[15:56]
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ballenHave not [15:59]
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mhoranup_the_irons: Talk with mike-burns. Also, #thoughtbot. [16:22]
mike-burnsHello.
#thoughtbot is empty for the holidays.
But we do extensive integration testing using Cucmber. I hated it at first and have now come to appreciate it.
Wow, this Edge connection I'm on is painfully slow.
[16:23]
mhoranmike-burns: No Wi-Fi on the train? [16:38]
up_the_ironslatest pic: http://www.flickr.com/photos/51184165@N00/4134213531/
data center pr0n
[16:45]
mhoranVery nice.
Thanks for the fix. :)
[16:45]
nc__:( [16:45]
mhoranIs that an unused RPS in the background?
Well, on the top?
[16:45]
up_the_ironslol
mhoran: it is indeed an RPS, and it's used
see there's 1 cable in slot 1
[16:45]
mhoranAh, I see now.
Oh, and a 2600?
[16:46]
up_the_ironsdamn you're good
yup, 2612
I use it as a console server, it has a NM-32A in it
[16:47]
mhoranAh, perfect. [16:47]
up_the_irons32 serial ports [16:47]
mhoranYup.
We used to do the same thing at Cisco.
[16:47]
up_the_ironsLoaded w/ IOS 12.3T, so I get SSH v2
ah cool
[16:47]
mhoranAlthough since the 2651XM was free, we used those instead. :p
The critical gear got 2800s.
[16:47]
up_the_ironsah nice [16:47]
mhoranBut yeah, the NM-32A is definitely handy.
Where's the switch hiding?
[16:48]
up_the_ironsit sure is a lot of bang for you buck
it is higher up
a Cisco 4503
a hungry mother
[16:48]
mhoranOh yeah.
No redundant power on that, though?
Or the 4503-E ...
(The E stuff is quite sexy.)
[16:49]
up_the_ironsmhoran: definitely redundant power, that's why i had to go 4500 or higher; cisco basically don't make a 1/2U switch w/ redundant PS that isn't insanely expensive
mhoran: here's a pic from when i started that cab: http://www.flickr.com/photos/51184165@N00/3293061085/in/photostream/
that's the 4503 in there
[16:52]
mhoranAh, very nice.
Yeah, I was looking at the wrong doc.
Why does the Cisco site suck so much.
[16:52]
up_the_ironshehe [16:54]
mike-burnsmhoran: Couldn't find any wifi. I'm weak 3G now, though! [16:57]
mhoranWoo! [16:57]
up_the_ironscd $food [16:57]
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jeevgonna try 8.0
on my kvm at home
[17:13]
ballenlet us know [17:15]
jeevwhat do you want me to look for
just boot up?
i'll run a bench
[17:20]
installation is CRAWLING.
not sure if it's the hardware
[17:27]
up_the_ironsso what's the deal with GCD
any good?
wth
x = ^{ printf("hello worldn"); }
is that actually valid C syntax? (the caret there)
for those interested, i'm reading http://images.apple.com/macosx/technology/docs/GrandCentral_TB_brief_20090903.pdf
which has been ported to FreeBSD 8
[17:36]
mhoranProbably an extension?
There's some extension I was reading about the other day that uses a carat.
[17:39]
up_the_irons"libdispatch works fine with gcc as shipped with FreeBSD for the function-centric interface dispatch APIs, but to use C Blocks you will need to build with clang -fblocks. Currently, clang does not support C++, so you are limited to using either C++ or blocks in a single source file"
so i guess it is "-fblocks"
[17:40]
mhoranYeah. [17:40]
up_the_ironsbut what is "clang"? [17:40]
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up_the_ironsjust the C version of GCC? [17:41]
mhoranMust be.
Yup, the caret is a block (closure).
Interesting.
Cool.
[17:41]
up_the_ironsclosure's in C, whoa [17:43]
mike-burnsIsn't clang a C compiler? [17:43]
mhoranIt sure is! [17:43]
mike-burnsI thought the C Block was a lambda. [17:43]
mhoranhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clang [17:43]
nc__up_the_irons: i don't think that's valid C syntax, i think it's part of the extension [17:43]
mhoranYeah, GCD require LLVM, and clang is the compiler for LLVM.
And these all plug in to gcc.
[17:45]
mike-burnsI had no idea clang workd with gcc. [17:47]
mhoranI think LLVM plugs in to gcc and Clang sits on top of LLVM. [17:47]
up_the_ironsoh i c
i've only looked at LLVM briefly
in fact right now i don't even remember what it was...
[17:51]
mike-burnsI seem to remember some *BSD people wanting to replace gcc with clang, due to the loicense. [17:51]
mhoranThat's what the Wikipedia article says.
Well I have no idea how this whole thing works.
[17:52]
up_the_ironsyeah i see the article says clang's goal is to replace gcc
but why?
[17:52]
mhoranClang definitely sits on top of LLVM, but I thought the LLVM article says it uses GCC.
Well if multiple languages compile down to LLVM as an intermediate language, that would be nice ...
Clang doesn't compile down to assembly.
[17:53]
mike-burnsLLVM is an increasingly-popular compiler target. [17:53]
mhoran^^ that. [17:53]
mike-burnsghc is trying to move to it, for example. [17:54]
mhoranInteresting. [17:54]
up_the_ironsi c
why is llvm becoming a popular compiler target?
it just does the backend plumbing better?
[17:54]
mike-burnsYeah, basically. Itls low enough to compie to, but hoigh enough to not be a pain. [17:55]
mhoranThat seems to be it. [17:56]
mike-burnsGood corporate backing and lots of tools too. [17:56]
mhoranYeah, with Apple behind it ...
People seem to be working on compiling Python and Ruby to it as well.
[17:56]
mike-burns(That said, this is only what I overhear. I don't actually know anything.) [17:57]
mhoranMan, there are some horrible shows on TV ... [17:58]
up_the_ironsi think you're right, i'm reading http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Low_Level_Virtual_Machine [17:58]
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mhoranI don't understand the difference between http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/University_of_Illinois/NCSA_Open_Source_License and the BSD license? [18:01]
prowlup_the_irons: is it normal for the VPS to maintain a .07 -.09 load avg from a default installation of obsd? [18:02]
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up_the_ironsprowl: yup
netbsd does the same thing, in Xen
i never quite found out why
[18:03]
prowlI'm not complaining, just honestly curious. :) [18:03]
nc__:( [18:03]
up_the_ironsthere's some doc i read a while back that i think explained it... [18:03]
prowlWell then I feel better that it is normal. [18:03]
greg_dolley@up_the_irons: dude, u r #1 on google! [18:04]
up_the_ironsgreg_dolley: you know it [18:04]
greg_dolley@up_the_irons: when I search for "openbsd vps"
lol
[18:04]
up_the_ironsprowl: one of my openbsd vps's: load averages: 0.11, 0.09, 0.08
greg_dolley: i'm just that cool
[18:04]
greg_dolleyhehehehe [18:05]
nc__hehehe [18:05]
prowl.07 .08 .08, tops at .09 generally. [18:05]
jeevbooted up just fine
8.0
[18:05]
up_the_ironsnice [18:05]
jeevgive it about ten minutes, bneching it [18:07]
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System -- FreeBSD vps1.booger 8.0-RELEASE FreeBSD 8.0-RELEASE #0: Sat Nov 21 15:02:08 UTC 2009 root@mason.cse.buffalo.edu:/usr/obj/usr/src/sys/GENERIC amd64
/dev/ad0s1a 9135182 1441354 6963014 17% /
FINAL SCORE 79.3
the other day 7.2 scored 10 points higher
[18:27]
heh
the 7.2 is takin 200% cpu
[18:34]
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[18:39]
jeevi've gotta stop using stupid qcow and just use raw [18:40]
nc__hehe
i have been using virtualbox a whole lot lately
[18:45]
jeevi hate virtualbox [18:45]
nc__really? why? [18:45]
jeevyou guys do soft updates on your bsd vm ?
nc__ dunno, i hate a lot of things randomly
[18:46]
nc__ah
hehe
perhaps it's just the operating system.. it runs well on osx here for me
[18:46]
jeevi just wish i could minimize the damn thing to taskbar
well, installing agin
again, bbiab
[18:47]
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[19:10]
srouteup_the_irons: we should get you to be #1 on Google for 'freebsd vps' now.
I feel a testimonial coming on.
can you write it for me? (just kidding)
[19:15]
Slightly funny but true story, when I think of Garry's name, I get a little giggle. One of the volunteer organizations I do a ton of work with has a husband and wife team that I quite often work alongside with. here's the odd bit, their first names:
Garry + Dolly
Pretty close, huh?
[19:20]
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[19:36]
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srouteLet me know if I
... if I have mis-spoken in any way: http://mikewatkins.ca/2009/11/26/freebsd-vps/
[20:03]
jeevcrazy [20:05]
ballenlooks good to me
one of these days I'll do a review as well
with pictures!
[20:07]
sroutepictures???? curious! [20:16]
ballenscreenshots I suppose [20:20]
nc__me too
gotta wait for my vm to be setup first
[20:34]
jeevballen
8.0 boots fine
[20:36]
ballencool [20:36]
jeevtrying to compare 7.2 to this [20:36]
ballenI've been running RC for a while, not on ARP though [20:37]
nc__how does obsd24 run on arp? [20:37]
ballen2.4? [20:37]
nc__err
sorry
4.5
[20:37]
ballenheh [20:37]
jeevask toddf
he's the openbsd dev
[20:37]
nc__toddf: hey you around? [20:38]
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[20:56]
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up_the_ironssroute: LOL, that *is* pretty close ;) [21:28]
nc__;( [21:28]
up_the_ironsthat'd be awesome if I could get to #1 for 'freebsd vps', but I think rootbsd.net has a strong hold on that slot ;) [21:30]
nc__;( [21:30]
up_the_ironsooh, testimonial...
up_the_irons reads
[21:30]
ballenI think nc__ wants something? [21:31]
jeevhttp://www.rootbsd.net/images/img-testimonials1.jpg [21:31]
nc__ballen: sorry [21:31]
jeevis root bsd implying that they run a power plant? [21:31]
nc__ballen: it's my disagree script
lol
[21:31]
ballenlol [21:31]
nc__jeev: haha [21:31]
ballenjeev: I'd say so
I hate stock photos sooo much
if you ever are selling anything
make sure your damn photos don't look like stock photos
[21:31]
nc__hehe
it makes you look unprofessional
in my opinion
[21:32]
ballenor make your stock photo of hot office women [21:32]
nc__showing a lot of cleavage [21:33]
ballenyes [21:33]
jeevyea
or goatsecx
[21:33]
nc__lol [21:33]
ballenno [21:33]
nc__click here to enter !
lol
[21:33]
ballenhttp://www.stockphotofail.com/ [21:34]
up_the_ironsnc__: you haven't got your VPS yet? I do have some in the queue, didn't know any of those were in here ;) [21:35]
nc__;(
up_the_irons: nope :p
i'll turn off my disagree script if thats annoying btw lol
[21:35]
ballenhttp://www.stockphotofail.com/2009/05/18/bikini-fail/
gawd damn
[21:36]
nc__ahaha iwas just looking at that one ballen [21:36]
up_the_ironsi hate stock photos too
my site is photo-less
[21:37]
ballenhttp://www.stockphotofail.com/2009/03/29/fuzzy-fail/ [21:37]
up_the_ironsalthough i do want to take my wife's expensive Nikon to the data center and take some real nice pics
then put them on the site
[21:37]
ballenthere ya go [21:38]
up_the_ironsIPv6 routing table is now about 2200 routes.. i remember when it was 900 [21:38]
ballenoh those were the days [21:39]
up_the_ironssroute: that's a really nice blog post / testimonial. I really appreciate it!
up_the_irons goes off to provision some VMs
[21:40]
jeevnc__, i just got a sudden vision
that you're going to get your vps soon
[21:43]
nc__jeev: me too!
hehe
[21:43]
jeevwe must share the same brain [21:43]
nc__perhaps we have developed some sort of telepathic connection [21:44]
jeevsince we have some sort of connection, that binds you to code for me
free.
unrestricted.
[21:44]
nc__haha
good luck i cant even get myself to code for me
[21:45]
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mick_laptophow long does it take to get a vps after ordering?
usually*
[22:01]
ballendepends on when you order it [22:02]
up_the_ironsmick_laptop: usually within 24 hours; all provisioning occurs at night (PST). But I happen to be provisioning orders now, so if you order now you'll get it within a few hours [22:02]
mick_laptopthanks for the info :) [22:03]
nc__:( [22:03]
mick_laptopalso does the special only apply to *BSD? (I wanted to order a Debian vps) [22:04]
up_the_ironsnc__ disagrees to everything [22:04]
nc__haha [22:04]
up_the_ironsmick_laptop: you can order Debian and still get the special [22:05]
mick_laptopah ok - cool [22:05]
nc__http://gruntle.org/projects/irssi/disagree.pl
hehe
[22:05]
up_the_ironsdoes nc__ like ice cream? :) [22:05]
nc__:( [22:05]
up_the_ironsLOL [22:05]
nc__lol [22:05]
ballenhttp://www.boston.com/bigpicture/2009/11/large_hadron_collider_ready_to.html [22:05]
up_the_ironsnc__: why are you sad all the time? :) [22:06]
nc__:( [22:06]
up_the_irons:) [22:06]
nc__:( [22:06]
up_the_irons:):):) [22:06]
nc__gah you tricked it
lolol
[22:06]
up_the_irons:) :) [22:06]
nc__:( [22:06]
up_the_ironsok, gotta space 'em out [22:06]
nc__xD
ballen: they already did it and got collisions :o
[22:07]
ballenyea just showing pretty pictures [22:07]
nc__i like the one showing the burnt cables
and scorched pipe
thats cool
[22:07]
ballenits all super freaken cool, one of the years I hope to working in an environment dealing with that much data [22:08]
nc__just looking at that hardware is mind blowing [22:09]
ballenugh... I need to get out more and take more photos [22:16]
up_the_ironsdid they find the higgs yet? [22:18]
ballenmaybe
who knows
[22:18]
nc__i need a friging hobby [22:18]
ballenits not really a definitive thing when it happens [22:18]
nc__maybe photography would be a nice hobby
there's a lot of stuff to take pictures of in boston
[22:18]
ballennc__ it can be expensive
if you're gear centric like I am
[22:19]
nc__yeah for sure, especially if you want quality hardware [22:19]
ballenup_the_irons: from my understanding they can determine if they find the higgs based on statistical analyses of data over time
basically it'll be a blip on the line graph
http://www.green500.org/lists/2009/11/top/list.php?from=1&to=100
impressed that Roadrunner (#6) is that high on good power consumption
[22:20]
jeevmy 7.2 scores 100 on the benchmark, 8.0 scores 80
pissing me off.
[22:23]
ballensuck it Oak Ridge (Jaguar Claws @ #44) but 1st on TOP5000
TOP500*
[22:23]
up_the_ironsi c [22:24]
ballen6.9KW jebus [22:24]
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jeevrobin thicke's wife on leno is pretty sexy
a little thick but she was hot in that one video
[22:29]
ballenhttp://blog.aparicio.org/2009/11/24/operations-magic-cure-nightly-server-restarts/
not a fan
[22:31]
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up_the_ironssrsly [22:39]
ballenkill for a latte right now [22:40]
feck all the damn local cafes are going to be closed tomorrow [22:49]
up_the_ironsheh [22:57]
ballenalready packed and shipped my espresso machine and grinder
... all I have left is my french press
[22:57]
up_the_ironsthe french press can do wonders [22:59]
ballentrue [23:09]
nc__up_the_irons: thanks :) [23:22]
up_the_ironsnc__: :) [23:22]
nc__:( [23:22]
up_the_ironsdon't be sad [23:22]
nc__hahah [23:22]
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