[01:29] *** visinin has quit IRC ("not sleepless yet") [03:37] interesting question [03:43] if the user is removed it gets removed from the /etc/group file wherever it is found [03:45] removed via userdel(8) [03:59] I have looked at the code, no way to remove a usser from a single group in that code, its a one pass extermination from /etc/group as the only removal code in sight [04:38] *** toddf has quit IRC (pratchett.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) [04:38] *** nuke has quit IRC (pratchett.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) [04:38] *** nuke has joined #arpnetworks [04:40] *** nuke has quit IRC (Killed by douglas.freenode.net (Nick collision)) [04:40] *** toddf has joined #arpnetworks [04:40] *** nuke has joined #arpnetworks [04:40] *** toddf has quit IRC (Remote closed the connection) [04:40] *** nuke^ has joined #arpnetworks [04:40] *** toddf has joined #arpnetworks [04:41] *** nuke has quit IRC (Connection reset by peer) [04:41] *** nuke^ is now known as nuke [05:09] *** jester1 has quit IRC (pratchett.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) [05:09] *** jester1 has joined #arpnetworks [05:51] *** Mrdbgi has joined #arpnetworks [06:23] *** heavysixer has joined #arpnetworks [06:37] morning [06:43] *** vtoms has joined #arpnetworks [07:36] *** vtoms has quit IRC (Remote closed the connection) [07:55] *** vtoms has joined #arpnetworks [08:20] *** baklava has joined #arpnetworks [09:17] *** visinin has joined #arpnetworks [10:10] *** vtoms has left [11:36] Mrdbgi: mornin [11:36] toddf: i think I had that issue with OpenBSD a long time ago, it boggled me. so there is no way to script removal of a user from a group besides trying to mangle /etc/group? that seems frustrating [11:53] as the utilities exist today, no. [11:53] how often do you need to remove users from groups? ;-) [11:53] vs remove them outright? [11:54] i needed it yesterday [11:54] reconfiguring some things [11:55] I've asked the appropriate people [11:55] but I'm realizing why I never ran into this before [11:56] I've always munged directly with /etc/group via vi before .. then I found the user*(8) tools and found those eaiser for scripting adds, mods (to add users to new groups) and removing users entirely [11:56] it is a rare day when I need to remove a single user from a single group [11:58] that's nuts ;) When I de-privilege users, I remove them from certain groups. I like do it all the time; i'm really surprised no one in the OpenBSD community works this way ;) [12:02] You can, of course, script editing a file. [12:02] But I agree. [12:03] hmm, seems 'usermod -G group user' should exclude the user from all other groups but 'group' but instead it adds the user to that group only [12:03] bugfix may be forthcoming ;-) [12:14] toddf: yup, it just keeps adding groups, no way to remove [12:16] meaning this may change the behavior, that usermod -G .. user must explicitly list each group they should still be a member of [12:21] toddf: when i read the man page, that's what I *thought* would happen; should probably be fixed [12:21] anyone know what the FreeBSD behavior is? [12:22] FreeBSD takes an explict list. [12:23] good to know! [12:29] *** Nat_RH has quit IRC (Remote closed the connection) [13:00] *** Nat_RH has joined #arpnetworks [14:18] *** cablehead has quit IRC (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) [14:21] *** cablehead has joined #arpnetworks [14:27] hi [16:46] *** samferry has quit IRC (Remote closed the connection) [17:07] *** Nat_UB_ has joined #arpnetworks [18:05] *** favor has joined #arpnetworks [18:05] *** favor has left "Leaving" [18:28] *** samferry has joined #arpnetworks [18:49] *** heavysixer has quit IRC () [19:17] toddf: From a netbsd.se wiki not sure if its apart of netbsd.org, but it stated: Also, the -G option does not remove the user from any groups. Edit /etc/group if you need to remove a user from a secondary group. [19:18] It is kind of weird there is no way to do this though. [19:24] * up_the_irons boggles [19:24] so NetBSD has no way of doing it either... huh? [19:24] that just blows my mind [19:24] anyway, time to go home... [19:28] up_the_irons: that is what it looks like. [19:38] openbsd is based on netbsd code, freebsd apparently is a different codebase for this [19:46] toddf: is a openbsd dev :D [20:00] *** heavysixer has joined #arpnetworks [20:21] *** mhoran has quit IRC (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)) [20:21] *** mike-burns has quit IRC (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)) [20:21] *** nuke` has quit IRC (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)) [20:22] jeepers. [20:22] *** mike-burns has joined #arpnetworks [20:25] *** mhoran has joined #arpnetworks [20:26] *** heavysixer has quit IRC () [20:28] *** nukeAFK has joined #arpnetworks [20:43] creepers [20:54] *** bobbyw has joined #arpnetworks [20:54] how long does it take to get an instance up after signing up? [20:58] bobbyw: 3-4 for me I think. [20:58] 3-4 minutes? hours? [20:59] bobbyw, usually by next morning if its a business day [20:59] it depends on when up_the_irons is around [20:59] i think he does everything at night [21:00] you came here a month back eh ? [21:00] yeah [21:00] hehe [21:00] I said I was going to come here in a month maybe? [21:00] haha [21:00] here I am [21:01] you signed up already ? [21:01] kinda weird though that it is manual authorize, slicehost and linode were instant [21:01] yeah [21:01] if you did, you should have it set up probably by morning [21:01] bobbyw, yea.. i think he's tight with fraud and stuff [21:01] likes to do stuff manually [21:01] i'd do the same [21:01] ugh [21:01] annoying [21:01] hours sorry* [21:01] yea i know hehe [21:01] but it's worth it [21:01] i haven't had any issues [21:01] cool [21:02] hehe only one issue for me, after recompile kernel :D [21:02] you recompiled? [21:02] what are you running [21:03] jeev: well for reliablity patches, openbsd [21:03] ahh [21:03] yeah so what's up with kernel patches on here? [21:04] i run freebsd [21:04] haven't rebuilt the kernel [21:04] yeah [21:04] dj_goku, what was your problem [21:04] I chose freebsd [21:04] long time linux user [21:04] just switched [21:04] I never liked compiling my linux kernel, I don't know what the hell is in my computer for sound chipset and .... but yeah :) [21:04] been playing in vmware with freebsd, enjoying it [21:04] yea i switched years back but i still love slackware. [21:04] slack? [21:04] jeev: boot never finished. [21:04] why? [21:04] that's what i grew up on [21:04] perfect, vanilla kernel [21:04] jeev: let me find the error [21:04] sexy [21:05] no lame users [21:05] you either know what you're doing or you use something else. [21:05] not doubting it [21:05] I liked arch quite a bit [21:05] dunno [21:05] jeev: http://scie.nti.st/2009/10/4/running-openbsd-4-5-in-kvm-on-ubuntu-linux-9-04 [21:05] dj_goku, that wasn't an arp issue though ;) [21:06] jeev: true, but a issue :D [21:06] heh [21:06] s/a/an/ [21:06] what is the host os? freebsd? [21:06] uh, I want to say ubuntu [21:06] not of the article [21:06] on arp [21:06] bobbyw: iirc up_the_irons wrote what I just posted. [21:07] yea it's ubuntu [21:07] wtf? really? [21:07] that seems counter insuitive doesnt it. [21:07] s/t [21:07] i call it ubunti [21:07] yeah, talk about a bloated POS [21:07] but i couldnt be happier, for the record. [21:07] obsidieth: its probably dead simple to get up and running so. [21:08] well yeah for rookies... but this is a vps host.... [21:08] theres nothing wrong with ubuntu. [21:08] just heard a lot from upstream dev guys about ubuntu devs [21:09] I guess I should just shut up and wait and see what it's like [21:09] :) [21:09] :D [21:09] we run ubuntu servers at my current place of work [21:09] personally, in a server environment i would choose debian [21:09] bobbyw: you could always start your own company and compete with arpnetworks :) [21:09] but the differences are just eh. [21:10] dj_goku: lol, hosting is boring to me [21:10] ;) [21:10] but arpnetworks is ran by a rookie OS though... :) [21:10] s/ran by/run on/ [21:10] we'll see [21:11] * dj_goku has only has his VPS from arpnetworks for a couple weeks. [21:11] at this point, it should be noted that all distributions of linux are fundamentally the same [21:11] yep [21:11] just becuase its user friendly doesnt make it any worse at serving. [21:20] yeah, I mean I guess *I* don't have to deal with it so what the fuck do I care [22:07] bobbyw: your VPS is coming up; got the order, thanks :) there is no automatic provisioning; guys like linode and slicehost have a few years extra to develop their stuff, i'm still in the manual setup phase. but i offer more choice, more resources, more affordable and rock solid reliability :) [22:08] up_the_irons: cool man, I'll put my stock in you for a while [22:08] and to all you Ubuntu haters, find me an base OS that will run *BSD VMs better than Ubuntu and I'll switch ;) [22:08] Ubuntu is ahead of Debian in the VM marketplace, esp. with para-virt [22:09] up_the_irons, slackware [22:09] When I ran Xen, it was on Debian [22:10] Debian, on a VM, however, runs like a bat out of hell. VERY fast [22:10] I have run xen on centos, arch, and ubuntu [22:11] i've heard good things about arch [22:11] I really like arch [22:11] arch is lovely [22:12] rolling release is brilliant [22:12] time to cd $starbucks && hammer-out-orders() [22:13] up_the_irons: which starbucks do you chill at? [22:13] wonder why he ignored slackware [22:13] visinin: i just hit the drive thru at starbucks in City of San Fernando [22:13] gotcha [22:13] i'm major of it in four square :D [22:14] brb [22:15] wait, so he said my shit was up, but I didn't get an email....... [22:15] hah [22:16] no [22:16] he said he'll hammer them out [22:17] oh [22:17] shit [22:17] is this a one-man ops team? [22:17] powered by SBUX? [22:17] lol [22:17] hehe [22:18] any of you guys use chef for server provisioning? [22:18] never heard of it [22:18] oh [22:18] dude [22:18] it's sweet [22:19] basically a replacement for shell script server provisioning [22:19] or whatever manual job [22:19] automated recipe to build your stack [22:20] but custom [22:20] http://wiki.opscode.com/display/chef/Home [22:20] eh [22:20] i do everything by hand [22:20] gross [22:21] :p [22:21] nope [22:21] do you build packages from source too? [22:21] tell me you use something to manage them [22:21] packages? [22:21] oh [22:21] right [22:21] porst [22:21] ports* [22:21] that's cool [22:21] if i use bsd, i'll use ports if i have to [22:21] I like that too [22:22] slackware, sbopkg or packages maybe [22:22] but i prefer everything by hand [22:22] what about versions, like you go in and recompile? [22:22] yep [22:22] if it's bsd, i might portupgradei t [22:22] yeah [22:22] me too [22:23] * dj_goku uses packages then if I really need something not in package form I use ports. [22:23] I like ports because it manages source meta data for you etc [22:59] excusen moi of my process for the next 20 minutes rapes the server [22:59] i'm going to bench it [23:01] jeev: probably not a good time; VM provisioning puts a lot of disk I/O onto the system [23:02] should i stop [23:02] i stopped [23:02] should i start it in like 3-4 hours ? [23:04] jeev: u can start in a couple hours [23:04] ok [23:27] bobbyw: just sent ya the welcome packet [23:27] up_the_irons: thanks [23:27] np [23:28] welcome ping [23:34] yeah that's it [23:34] I got the two emails [23:35] bobbyw: oh ok, i had a weird scrollback deja vu... ignore me [23:36] up_the_irons: ha, it's cool, try to keep posting my email to the public channel to a minimum ;) ha [23:36] bobbyw: i've heard of chef actually; i am weary of new tools like that. would have to try it. i mean, like, does it *really* work on OpenBSD? (claims it does) also, it has some strange dependency i remember... [23:36] bobbyw: bah, sorry about that [23:37] up_the_irons: ruby, rubygems, and the chef gem [23:37] up_the_irons: I notice you are somewhat partial to ruby, noticed the sinatra app, and using tender [23:37] bobbyw: what about the database? [23:38] up_the_irons: couchdb [23:38] bobbyw: yeah, i used to code rails full time [23:38] up_the_irons: that's what I do now, and I have always been sucked into doing ops stuff [23:38] see, couchdb is just a weird dependency for something like that [23:39] bobbyw: i've been doing ops for 10 years, but got sucked into rails ;) [23:39] i was developing some ebay software several years ago, and wanted a better way to make web apps; found rails [23:39] up_the_irons: couchdb is a bit of a weird dep, I'll give you that, but it stores json, and that's what chef passes around to the nodes [23:39] have been pretty happy since [23:40] bobbyw: i c [23:40] up_the_irons: I am pretty stoked about rails 3 [23:40] up_the_irons: I am headed to rubyconf in nov [23:40] it's in SF [23:41] FINALLY a web coast location [23:41] *west [23:41] maybe i'll go [23:41] i was at the NC one in '07 [23:41] tix sold out already [23:41] oh cool [23:41] was pretty fun [23:41] who needs tix ;) [23:42] yeah, last year was orlando right? [23:42] yup, or-F'in-lando [23:42] i'll just show up to the hotel, then code in the lobby, like everyone else does at conferences [23:42] up_the_irons: haha [23:43] up_the_irons: yeah that's about right, the only one that stands out to me that people do that a lot less is future ruby [23:43] in toronot [23:43] toronto* [23:43] i c [23:43] interesting [23:43] really cool conf, anyway.. off topic [23:46] no such thing as off topic here [23:46] bobbyw: so what brings you to FreeBSD? [23:48] up_the_irons: well, I have used linux extensively, and basically what it comes down to is I like the structure of development, they keep software up to date, stuff they put in the ports tree is extensively tested, the security team is great, and I just like the philosophy better, I could relate more [23:49] right on [23:49] with the exception to the kernel itself linux seems to be scattered in so many different camps [23:50] yeah, you're spot on there [23:50] i feel there is little coherency [23:50] with such a large community and install base, there really can't be [23:50] people just don't agree across the board [23:50] on things [23:50] right, everyone forks when they don't agree [23:50] that's why we have so many distros [23:50] yep [23:50] lol [23:52] it seems like there are a handful of bsds around but that's cool, I like the way they do it, everything comes from upstream or is patched in upstream, the different flavors are for distinct purposes, but they keep everything cohesive [23:52] just noticed dragonfly bsd uses git, nice [23:52] yeah' [23:52] git is sweet [23:52] svn is balls [23:52] so is csv [23:52] haha [23:52] cvs* [23:53] "the different flavors are for distinct purposes" -- yeah, that's really true [23:53] didn't dragonfly also introduce a different filesysteM? [23:53] i think so [23:53] or are trying to [23:53] to achieve their clustering goals [23:53] right [23:53] and come on, who doesn't dig pf :) [23:54] i really like OpenBGPd, which I run on an OpenBSD box, for IPv6 routing [23:54] solid as all hell [23:54] what is openbgpd? [23:55] bobbyw: open implementation of the BGP protocol [23:56] cool [23:56] bobbyw: for dynamic routing [23:56] googled it, sounds pretty cool [23:56] turn machines into routers etc [23:56] yeah, they also have OpenOSPFd, but I don't use OSPF for anything [23:57] we have 29 users in here, i think that is a record :D [23:58] nice! [23:58] how do most people manage dns here? [23:58] im usin named/bind and webmin.