interesting question
if the user is removed it gets removed from the /etc/group file wherever it is found
removed via userdel(8)
I have looked at the code, no way to remove a usser from a single group in that code, its a one pass extermination from /etc/group as the only removal code in sight
morning
Mrdbgi: mornin
toddf: i think I had that issue with OpenBSD a long time ago, it boggled me.  so there is no way to script removal of a user from a group besides trying to mangle /etc/group?  that seems frustrating
as the utilities exist today, no.
how often do you need to remove users from groups? ;-)
vs remove them outright?
i needed it yesterday
reconfiguring some things
I've asked the appropriate people
but I'm realizing why I never ran into this before
I've always munged directly with /etc/group via vi before .. then I found the user*(8) tools and found those eaiser for scripting adds, mods (to add users to new groups) and removing users entirely
it is a rare day when I need to remove a single user from a single group
that's nuts ;)  When I de-privilege users, I remove them from certain groups.  I like do it all the time; i'm really surprised no one in the OpenBSD community works this way ;)
You can, of course, script editing a file.
But I agree.
hmm, seems 'usermod -G group user' should exclude the user from all other groups but 'group' but instead it adds the user to that group only
bugfix may be forthcoming ;-)
toddf: yup, it just keeps adding groups, no way to remove
meaning this may change the behavior, that usermod -G .. user must explicitly list each group they should still be a member of
toddf: when i read the man page, that's what I *thought* would happen; should probably be fixed
anyone know what the FreeBSD behavior is?
FreeBSD takes an explict list.
good to know!
hi
toddf: From a netbsd.se wiki not sure if its apart of netbsd.org, but it stated: Also, the -G option does not remove the user from any groups. Edit /etc/group if you need to remove a user from a secondary group.
It is kind of weird there is no way to do this though.
so NetBSD has no way of doing it either... huh?
that just blows my mind
anyway, time to go home...
up_the_irons: that is what it looks like.
openbsd is based on netbsd code, freebsd apparently is a different codebase for this
toddf: is a openbsd dev :D
jeepers.
creepers
how long does it take to get an instance up after signing up?
bobbyw: 3-4 for me I think.
3-4 minutes? hours?
bobbyw, usually by next morning if its a business day
it depends on when up_the_irons is around
i think he does everything at night
you came here a month back eh ?
yeah
hehe
I said I was going to come here in a month maybe?
haha
here I am
you signed up already ?
kinda weird though that it is manual authorize, slicehost and linode were instant
yeah
if you did, you should have it set up probably by morning
bobbyw, yea.. i think he's tight with fraud and stuff
likes to do stuff manually
i'd do the same
ugh
annoying
hours sorry*
yea i know hehe
but it's worth it
i haven't had any issues
cool
hehe only one issue for me, after recompile kernel :D
you recompiled?
what are you running
jeev: well for reliablity patches, openbsd
ahh
yeah so what's up with kernel patches on here?
i run freebsd
haven't rebuilt the kernel
yeah
dj_goku, what was your problem
I chose freebsd
long time linux user
just switched
I never liked compiling my linux kernel, I don't know what the hell is in my computer for sound chipset and .... but yeah :)
been playing in vmware with freebsd, enjoying it
yea i switched years back but i still love slackware.
slack?
jeev: boot never finished.
why?
that's what i grew up on
perfect, vanilla kernel
jeev: let me find the error
sexy
no lame users
you either know what you're doing or you use something else.
not doubting it
I liked arch quite a bit
dunno
jeev: http://scie.nti.st/2009/10/4/running-openbsd-4-5-in-kvm-on-ubuntu-linux-9-04
dj_goku, that wasn't an arp issue though ;)
jeev: true, but a issue :D
heh
s/a/an/
what is the host os? freebsd?
uh, I want to say ubuntu
not of the article
on arp
bobbyw: iirc up_the_irons wrote what I just posted.
yea it's ubuntu
wtf? really?
that seems counter insuitive doesnt it.
s/t
i call it ubunti
yeah, talk about a bloated POS
but i couldnt be happier, for the record.
obsidieth: its probably dead simple to get up and running so.
well yeah for rookies... but this is a vps host....
theres nothing wrong with ubuntu.
just heard a lot from upstream dev guys about ubuntu devs
I guess I should just shut up and wait and see what it's like
:)
:D
we run ubuntu servers at my current place of work
personally, in a server environment i would choose debian
bobbyw: you could always start your own company and compete with arpnetworks :)
but the differences are just eh.
dj_goku: lol, hosting is boring to me
;)
but arpnetworks is ran by a rookie OS though... :)
s/ran by/run on/
we'll see
at this point, it should be noted that all distributions of linux are fundamentally the same
yep
just becuase its user friendly doesnt make it any worse at serving.
yeah, I mean I guess *I* don't have to deal with it so what the fuck do I care
bobbyw: your VPS is coming up; got the order, thanks :)  there is no automatic provisioning; guys like linode and slicehost have a few years extra to develop their stuff, i'm still in the manual setup phase.  but i offer more choice, more resources, more affordable and rock solid reliability :)
up_the_irons: cool man, I'll put my stock in you for a while
and to all you Ubuntu haters, find me an base OS that will run *BSD VMs better than Ubuntu and I'll switch ;)
Ubuntu is ahead of Debian in the VM marketplace, esp. with para-virt
up_the_irons, slackware
When I ran Xen, it was on Debian
Debian, on a VM, however, runs like a bat out of hell.  VERY fast
I have run xen on centos, arch, and ubuntu
i've heard good things about arch
I really like arch
arch is lovely
rolling release is brilliant
time to cd $starbucks && hammer-out-orders()
up_the_irons: which starbucks do you chill at?
wonder why he ignored slackware
visinin: i just hit the drive thru at starbucks in City of San Fernando
gotcha
i'm major of it in four square :D
brb
wait, so he said my shit was up, but I didn't get an email.......
hah
no
he said he'll hammer them out
oh
shit
is this a one-man ops team?
powered by SBUX?
lol
hehe
any of you guys use chef for server provisioning?
never heard of it
oh
dude
it's sweet
basically a replacement for shell script server provisioning
or whatever manual job
automated recipe to build your stack
but custom
http://wiki.opscode.com/display/chef/Home
eh
i do everything by hand
gross
:p
nope
do you build packages from source too?
tell me you use something to manage them
packages?
oh
right
porst
ports*
that's cool
if i use bsd, i'll use ports if i have to
I like that too
slackware, sbopkg or packages maybe
but i prefer everything by hand
what about versions, like you go in and recompile?
yep
if it's bsd, i might portupgradei t
yeah
me too
I like ports because it manages source meta data for you etc
excusen moi of my process for the next 20 minutes rapes the server
i'm going to bench it
jeev: probably not a good time; VM provisioning puts a lot of disk I/O onto the system
should i stop
i stopped
should i start it in like 3-4 hours ?
jeev: u can start in a couple hours
ok
bobbyw: just sent ya the welcome packet
up_the_irons: thanks
np
welcome ping
yeah that's it
I got the two emails
bobbyw: oh ok, i had a weird scrollback deja vu... ignore me
up_the_irons: ha, it's cool, try to keep posting my email to the public channel to a minimum ;) ha
bobbyw: i've heard of chef actually; i am weary of new tools like that.  would have to try it.  i mean, like, does it *really* work on OpenBSD? (claims it does)  also, it has some strange dependency i remember...
bobbyw: bah, sorry about that
up_the_irons: ruby, rubygems, and the chef gem
up_the_irons: I notice you are somewhat partial to ruby, noticed the sinatra app, and using tender
bobbyw: what about the database?
up_the_irons: couchdb
bobbyw: yeah, i used to code rails full time
up_the_irons: that's what I do now, and I have always been sucked into doing ops stuff
see, couchdb is just a weird dependency for something like that
bobbyw: i've been doing ops for 10 years, but got sucked into rails ;)
i was developing some ebay software several years ago, and wanted a better way to make web apps; found rails
up_the_irons: couchdb is a bit of a weird dep, I'll give you that, but it stores json, and that's what chef passes around to the nodes
have been pretty happy since
bobbyw: i c
up_the_irons: I am pretty stoked about rails 3
up_the_irons: I am headed to rubyconf in nov
it's in SF
FINALLY a web coast location
*west
maybe i'll go
i was at the NC one in '07
tix sold out already
oh cool
was pretty fun
who needs tix ;)
yeah, last year was orlando right?
yup, or-F'in-lando
i'll just show up to the hotel, then code in the lobby, like everyone else does at conferences
up_the_irons: haha
up_the_irons: yeah that's about right, the only one that stands out to me that people do that a lot less is future ruby
in toronot
toronto*
i c
interesting
really cool conf, anyway.. off topic
no such thing as off topic here
bobbyw: so what brings you to FreeBSD?
up_the_irons: well, I have used linux extensively, and basically what it comes down to is I like the structure of development, they keep software up to date, stuff they put in the ports tree is extensively tested, the security team is great, and I just like the philosophy better, I could relate more
right on
with the exception to the kernel itself linux seems to be scattered in so many different camps
yeah, you're spot on there
i feel there is little coherency
with such a large community and install base, there really can't be
people just don't agree across the board
on things
right, everyone forks when they don't agree
that's why we have so many distros
yep
lol
it seems like there are a handful of bsds around but that's cool, I like the way they do it, everything comes from upstream or is patched in upstream, the different flavors are for distinct purposes, but they keep everything cohesive
just noticed dragonfly bsd uses git, nice
yeah'
git is sweet
svn is balls
so is csv
haha
cvs*
"the different flavors are for distinct purposes" -- yeah, that's really true
didn't dragonfly also introduce a different filesysteM?
i think so
or are trying to
to achieve their clustering goals
right
and come on, who doesn't dig pf :)
i really like OpenBGPd, which I run on an OpenBSD box, for IPv6 routing
solid as all hell
what is openbgpd?
bobbyw: open implementation of the BGP protocol
cool
bobbyw: for dynamic routing
googled it, sounds pretty cool
turn machines into routers etc
yeah, they also have OpenOSPFd, but I don't use OSPF for anything
we have 29 users in here, i think that is a record :D
nice!
how do most people manage dns here?
im usin named/bind and webmin.