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up_the_irons: ballen|away: i'd ask you to convert, like, /26 into 255.255.255.192
<br> ballen|away: and vice versa
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Chand`: !request
up_the_irons: hehe
<br> Chand`: welcome to #arpnetworks
Chand`: tq
<br> like where do I get a free vps here?
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Chand`: ?
up_the_irons: Chand`: there are no free vps' here
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Chand`: you mean
<br> ?
<br> up_the_irons : ?you mean
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Chand`: up_the_irons : you mean?
up_the_irons: Chand`: i don't understand
Chand`: I'm sorry because I'm from Indonesia so it is not too fluent in English
<br> :-)
up_the_irons: that's alright
Chand`: whether there's a shell or a vps for free??
up_the_irons: Chand`: there is no VPS for free
<br> or free shells
Chand`: if the shell?
<br> ?
up_the_irons: no shells
Chand`: ;-9
<br> ;-(
<br> if you can help me to get a free shell?
<br> please
up_the_irons: Chand`: http://www.red-pill.eu/freeunix.shtml
Chand`:
<br> if you have a shell?
up_the_irons: bed time for me
<br> cd $rest
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sroute: <u>up_the_irons</u>: going to bed just as I'm starting again LOL
<br> Somehow managed not to work half the night. This "sleeping" thing is kinda cool.
<br> Might try it again sometime...
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jeev: so who here has a freebs vps
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mhoran: <u>jeev</u>: Me, ballen, mike-burns, others, I'm sure.
jeev: do you build packges
<br> like apache or pkg_add -r ?
mike-burns: I just use the ports.
jeev: so you build from it
<br> is it slow
<br> ;/
mike-burns: Nope.
<br> It's about as fast as my normal dev machine.
jeev: cool
mike-burns: I also don't install a lot of software on my servers.
<br> 46 ports installed in total, and I'd guess a majority of that is autotools-related.
jeev: ok cool
mhoran: <u>jeev</u>: Same here.
<br> Never really had a problem with ports.
<br> It's great to be able to keep up to date so easily.
mike-burns: I recently tried portmaster and it feels nicer than portupgrade.
jeev: you guys use portsnap
sroute: jeev - I have a FreeBSD "vps" with Arp too. Very pleased with it. I also run my own machines elsewhere on the planet but will be using more virtual machines in the future.
<br> portsnap && portmaster are my tools of choice at present.
mike-burns: Haven't tried portsnap, but it sure looks useful.
sroute: easy-peasy
ballen: also portupgrade
sroute: sudo portsnap fetch && sudo portsnap extract - first go around
ballen: which is a port in its self
sroute: from then on sudo portsnap fetch && sudo portsnap update
<br> Very fast.
jeev: yea man i have a ton of servers, i just wanted a vps
sroute: First extract will take a while of course but from then on its slick.
mike-burns: This replaces cvsup?
sroute: jeev - for all intents and purposes the vps will look like a real server - you can even rebuild and install your own kernel
<br> mike-burns: yup
<br> mike-burns: as far as I can tell there are no downsides to using portsnap over cvsup - probably cvsup for ports will one day be deprecated. Or should be.
mike-burns: Cool, I'll try it next time I upgrade.
jeev: how funny
<br> a clients server ram just failed
sroute: I'm running an update on one machine right now... just started. I'll tell you when it is done
jeev: i just started using svn on a test server for 7-stable
sroute: Done.
<br> $ sudo portsnap fetch && sudo portsnap update
<br> Looking up portsnap.FreeBSD.org mirrors... 3 mirrors found.
<br> Fetching snapshot tag from portsnap1.FreeBSD.org... done.
<br> Fetching snapshot metadata... done.
<br> Updating from Sun Sep 27 13:13:53 PDT 2009 to Wed Sep 30 08:50:51 PDT 2009....
<br> --snip-- extracts a bunch of new files.
<br> like I said, the first extract will take a while, as would an "update" if you do one say six months from now. But it is far faster than cvsup for most users and certainly is so for frequent users.
mhoran: portsnap is great, as is freebsd-update
<br> (Written by the same guy!)
mike-burns: Makes sense.
mhoran: I wish the ports system had a config management system similar to that of mergemaster.
<br> I don't like having to figure out that on my own.
<br> Granted, /usr/ports/UPDATING usually helps, but still.
mike-burns: Which ports give you issues?
mhoran: Dovecot changes its options every point release. It's obnoxious.
mike-burns: Oh, that's harsh.
mhoran: There are always little things that break when the defaults change. I want to know that.
BeBoo_: sroute, you know you can do portsnap fetch update ?
<br> instead of 2 commands
mike-burns: I wish something were automated for PostgreSQL upgrades, along that line too.
mhoran: ... not have to recovery a week later when I realize my mail server has been down because Dovecot hasn't started.
<br> <u>BeBoo_</u>: Yeah, the combined command is nice.
<br> There's alsoa cron command that doesn't actually do the merge to be safe, but I'd like to implement that someday to e-mail me weekly with pkg_version -v -l < or something similar.
<br> mike-burns: Debian has some stuff, but, yeah.
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jeev: you guys use suphp ?
mhoran: Never heard of it.
jeev: its like suexec, for php
mhoran: Huh!
sroute: <u>BeBoo_</u>: thanks. an old habit which will change now...
BeBoo_: <u>jeev</u>: i believe i have in the past
mhoran: I use lighttpd, so my config is a bit different.
jeev: cool
<br> yea i use lighttpd for a cust
BeBoo_: <u>sroute</u>: does the same thing but saves some typing. =]
jeev: funny thing is his server got hacked with lighttpd cause of a script
mhoran: :(
jeev: no, the sites on apache got owned, not lighttpd
<br> i dunno why, they were all in one fodler
<br> i suggested we move each site to a new username
mhoran: Interesting.
jeev: we have yet to do so though
<br> it's best to segregate *
-: sroute thinks it is best to rm php*
mhoran: We're in the process of moving our apps off to separate VMs, since our Wordpress install just got owned.
BeBoo_: :o
jeev: seriously
mhoran: <u>sroute</u>: Agreed.
<br> Too bad we just deployed a huge Joomla installation.
<br> Whoops!
BeBoo_: <u>jeev</u>: can always jail each site if you wanted to go that far
sroute: I think I will have to break down and write a minimalist webmail app so that I can actually remove PHP from one of our boxes. At least I have the one app - squirrelmail - running via PHP in a jail
mhoran: Hm. Maybe I'll look into suphp for our wordpress install.
jeev: i've gotta get more into it and see what's going on
<br> what do you use to jail
sroute: This jail is by hand; I have used ezjail as well too and like it when I am doling out large numbers of them.
jeev: ahh
sroute: I don't suppose anyone has a decent webmail app, non PHP, preferably in Python, they have experience with and like?
jeev: nope, i use horde
mhoran: Hm. That'd be nice.
BeBoo_: <u>sroute</u>: http://bobomail.sourceforge.net/
sroute: Am seriously thinking of firing up a project. I have some experience writing mail apps but not sure I want to dive that deep.
jeev: cat believeskewed
<br> [11:11am] <xsamurai> fatalnix:
<br> woops
<br> cant believe i clicked on the localhost link
mhoran: bobomail really needs some UI help. :)
sroute: <u>BeBoo_</u>: I believe I've run across that link before... quite ancient - dates back to Python 1.x days and that was a LONG time ago.
BeBoo_: ah. i just googled =[11:17] <mhoran> # Apache 1.3.11, Apache 1.3.12
mhoran: # Mozilla M15/ Netscape Navigator 4.7
sroute: "Bobo" is a term that Zope used to be referred to as.
mhoran: Yeah, this uses Zope, it seems.
<br> Looks dead. :(
sroute: There just isn't anything for Python that seems active; a couple of times a year I check out the state of affairs.
<br> http://posterity.edgewall.org/ is one... but also seems inactive. Just not as old as bobomail
mhoran: I'd like the UI of Roundcube (without the OS X style, but the AJAX and general layout is nice) written ins omething other than PHP.
<br> Then I'd just need to find a replacement for Mediawiki (probably not going to happen) and phpBB (yuck).
sroute: http://divmod.org/trac/wiki/DivmodQuotient is another, seems stalled. Not quite sure what those folks are up to these days.
<br> Someone started a project on Google Code last year http://code.google.com/p/webpymail/
<br> But no updates since January.
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mhoran: Hm. Why is my lighttpd serving up an expired certificate. :(
sroute: I guess OpenWebMail (perl) might be an option. http://www.openwebmail.org/
<br> Or I stick with sqmail in a jail, where all PHP apps belong. squirrel mail probably isn't that bad off although there have been the odd security issues with it, as there are with most all software regardless of language
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up_the_irons: wow, i got some scrollback to read, don't i
sroute: while the cat is away...
BeBoo_: lol
up_the_irons: <u>sroute</u>: i also tried to "sleeping" thing last night, but woke up at like 4AM and had to get on the laptop
BeBoo_: "sleep" ? what is that?
mike-burns: It's something that doesn't work right when you mix FreeBSD and KVM.
-: mike-burns is pleased with that pun
up_the_irons: as i'm reading the scrollback about portsnap and cvsup, let me say i wish they deprecated CVS entirely and just used git; git is so much faster than any alternative out there, by a mile; anyone who has used it knows what i mean
mike-burns: git is the fastest I've tried, but there has been a crazy amount of improvements to darcs over the past month.
jeev: git is cool but was pissing me off
<br> i had messed up the kvm branch of git and wanted to redownload everything
<br> it kept saying already up to date, do you know what to do in that situation ?
mike-burns: git reset --hard ?
up_the_irons: <u>BeBoo_</u>: "sleep" is something they used to make a while ago; it got discontinued due to lack of sales
<br> <u>jeev</u>: why not just re-clone?
jeev: i didn't know what to do
<br> i rm'd it
up_the_irons: if you want to really "start over"
<br> what to do would depend on how you "messed up the [branch]"
<br> no universal solution
mike-burns: I've suggested before: I'd love if there was a 'git undo' command, that I could keep typing until I got to the initial checkin.
<br> It'd just magically undo whatever I just did, and if it gets to the point where I cloned it then it'd undo what the prior person did.
<br> That's my dream.
up_the_irons: i saw some alias for 'undo' i think, not sure if it worked well
<br> mike-burns: there's some nice tidbits here sometimes: http://www.gitready.com/
mike-burns: Hah. gitready worked next to me for six months.
up_the_irons: worked?
mike-burns: He's a CS students at RIT.
up_the_irons: ah , haha
<br> nice
mike-burns: He had an internship at my company.
<br> Any git problem I had, he fixed. It was great.
up_the_irons: LOL
<br> office time
<br> cd $office
BeBoo_: No such file or directory
dbgi: lo
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ballen: ping
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sroute: python
<br> wrong window.
ballen: indeed
sroute: for x in range(100000000): print("oops")
ballen: (0..100000000).each { print "oops" }
jeev: dam man
<br> qemu is going slowwwwwwwww, without kvm
ballen: ruby is so much better :-)
jeev: install ;D
ballen: prints = puts though
sroute: ballen - whatever fits our brains is better
<br> thankfully PHP isn't among the choices for you and me LOL
ballen: yea I agree, its just fun to argue
<br> yea PHP is lame
sroute: i'm too old for language wars myself
<br> but it can be fun... once in a while
ballen: ever do fuzzy logic searches ?
sroute: not as a matter of course... why?
ballen: just trying to figure out a way to do it that doesn't involve multiple calls to the db
<br> searching for a name
<br> the db has First Last in a field
sroute: ah; for that I've had to rely on search engine technology in my past.
ballen: yea
sroute: Used to do a bunch of work with Fulcrum, OpenText
<br> document and content management systems, workflow, imaging - that was my area of expertise.
ballen: ah right on
<br> meh screw fuzzy logic
<br> not worth the crap ton of extra queries
<br> or storing an extra index
sroute: Postgres has (or had, been a while since I looked) a "soundex" library
<br> Might be worth looking around for something similar for your db of choice.
ballen: yea not using a relation db for this project
sroute: Ah.
ballen: likly I have the speed to do the queries
<br> of the various permutation of the search
<br> but it seems like an ugly way of doing it
<br> I guess I could ensure everything is downcased
<br> for the search
<br> that would eleminate some issues
sroute: Not looked at soundex algorithms of late but is one approach. Of course non-English names complicate matters greatly.
ballen: hmm yea very true
<br> http://unirec.blogspot.com/2007/12/live-fuzzy-search-using-n-grams-in.html
<br> there n-grams approach
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up_the_irons: getchar!
<br> how very C of you
ballen: what now
sroute: <u>ballen</u>: just for fun I built a quicky Levenshtein distance calculator; a brute force run through a list of 200,000 words takes quite a while to return this for the search value "Mike":
<br> >>> def closest(key, iterable, top=5):
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sroute: ... result = []
<br> ... for i, value in enumerate(iterable):
<br> ... result.append(i, value, levenshtein(key, value))
fgetc: <u>getchar</u>: sup
sroute: ... return sorted(result, key=lambda x: x[2])[:top]
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-: sroute wonders if I've stumbled into #Remedial_C_for_insomniacs
ballen: hah
<br> sroute, whats the levenshtein method look like
sroute: gonna grab some dinner
<br> here's an implementation: http://hetland.org/coding/python/levenshtein.py
ballen: thx
sroute: precalculating ngram style like the better approach for a big word corpus
<br> but for a smallish body... lev might be just fine. 10 seconds for 200,000 words on my slow dev machine
ballen: yea trade off being using up more storage
<br> in which my db runs in memory
sroute: anyway, fun to think about this stuff again. I actually need a fuzzy match solution.
ballen: so storage is a premium
sroute: my db is a python object db, not a SQL back end
ballen: thanks for the suggestions
sroute: see, Python and Ruby folks DO get along LOL
ballen: hah
<br> indeed
-: sroute looks for a PHP maven to stun with a Taser
ballen: lmao
<br> hmm I'm guessing I could iterate though name index
<br> see how it does
sroute: mostly (partly?) kidding.
<br> c u folks later... dinner calls.
up_the_irons: l8r
ballen: prolly could use RubyInline to write the method in ruby
<br> in C
jeev: up_the_irons
<br> qemu is so nasty without kvm
up_the_irons: <u>jeev</u>: it's a software emulator, so sure it's nasty ;)
jeev: nasty.
<br> xen is SO much faster
up_the_irons: xen is not a software emulator
<br> you're comparing apples and oranges on that one
<br> i gotta leave the office now, talk to u guys later
ballen: k bye
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jeev: ahh
<br> what's the difference then between xen and qemu
ballen: Xen is paravirtulizaed, Qemu/KVM is full-vert
jeev: what if it's not KVM
<br> just Qemu vs Xen
ballen: same diff just not running in the kernel
<br> or rather not using Intel VT or AMD-V CPU extentions
jeev: hmm
<br> the qemu box is crawwwwwwwwwwling on a slackware install
<br> but xen, debian was fast
<br> i know it's not necessarily debian that's fast
<br> but i think it's just qemu that is crawwwwwwwwwwwwling
ballen: xen is inertially faster than Qemu, but requires a modified ghost OS kernel
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sroute: ballen... turns out the fastest way to get fuzzy matching in Python is to look at the docs. difflib module fills the bill...
ballen: heh how about in Ruby?
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sroute: Here's an example - lets get 17,000 words or so in a list
<br> >>> W = [w.strip() for w in open('/usr/share/dict/words') if len(w) < 7 and len(w) > 3]
<br> >>> len(W)
<br> 16920
<br> >>> difflib.get_close_matches('Mike', W)
<br> ['Mike', 'Mikey', 'sike']
<br> >>> difflib.get_close_matches('Fred', W)
<br> ['Fred', 'red', 'roed']
<br> >>> difflib.get_close_matches('naancy', W)
<br> ['nancy', 'nanny', 'nacry']
<br> >>> difflib.get_close_matches('heelga', W)
<br> ['heel', 'wheel', 'shela']
<br> >>> difflib.get_close_matches('sheilla', W)
<br> ['shill', 'shell', 'shela']
<br> >>> difflib.get_close_matches('Bobbty', W)
<br> ['Bobby', 'sobby', 'pobby']
<br> Not bad. Pretty fast too.
ballen: nice, any idea on big o complexity of it?
-: sroute chalks this up as learn something new today.
sroute: difflib module I see is 2000 lines long. Let me have a quick read
ballen: feck
<br> 2k lines
sroute: get_close_matches however is not very long at all.
<br> However it does depend on a SequenceMatcher class which is somewhat lengthy.
<br> http://blade.nagaokaut.ac.jp/cgi-bin/scat.rb/ruby/ruby-talk/293796
ballen: nice thanks
<br> likely it won't work with Ruby 1.9
<br> but will try
sroute: meh. apparently it is October somewhere on the planet already.
ballen: ew
<br> I don't want snow
sroute: mailing list reminders have an undesirable side effect of reminding me how fast time passes
<br> snow? isn't everyone located in Monaco like me?
ballen: heh, nope
sroute: lol it was 33 degrees (C) in Calgary last week while I was there; back in Vancouver it was 6 or 7 C this morning.
ballen: 50F here
sroute: Not looking forward to snow either although I think the 2010 Winter Olympic organizers in this city are sure hoping it does before Feb.
ballen: likely
jeev: i wish i could code
sroute: me too ;)
<br> more seriously... if you want it, just dive in.
<br> http://diveintopython.org/
<br> Or in Ruby (I don't know anything about this site) http://rubylearning.com/
<br> cul8tr
ballen: heh
<br> CSS can be annoying
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jeev: damn
<br> slack has been isntalling through qemu without kvm for 4 hours, still going
ballen: me thinks you should use something else
jeev: yea qemu bows
<br> blows
<br> didnt you suggest vmware
ballen: yes
jeev: it will work well without kvm ?
<br> this is for a server with no kvm
<br> xen spanks qemu without kvm
ballen: like a literal kvm?
<br> or the software
jeev: vmx or whatever amd's capability
<br> you iknow, the cpu capability
<br> that makes your vm run sexy
<br> you know what kvm is ?
ballen: oh, yes you must have virtuization extensions for ESXi
jeev: www.linux-kvm.org
<br> oh
ballen: yes I know what KVM
jeev: damn
ballen: is
jeev: so im stuck with xen ;)
<br> my kvm capable server is doing well
ballen: can grab a trial of regualar ESX
<br> which will run
jeev: which is easier
<br> virtualbox or esx
<br> not easier but
<br> less of a hassle
ballen: why the hell am I tired its only 1:52
jeev: heh
<br> im tired too and it's only 1052
ballen: getting pissed at my head
<br> I can usually stay up till 4-5 no prob when working on a fun project
jeev: last fun project i had was vagina
mike-burns: <u>ballen</u>: You could use Hubris and write the method in Haskell, for Ruby. (Instead of using RubyInline.) (Responding to something way in the backlog.)
ballen: whats Hubris
mike-burns: It's a Haskell-to-Ruby marshaller.
ballen: ah
mike-burns: It's so you can write fast code for Ruby without writing C.
ballen: yea I'm putting that task on the back burner for now
<br> doing more UI and app logic for now
mike-burns: The thrill and excitement of CSS and JS.
ballen: no JS
mike-burns: Smart.
<br> JS is tricky to test.
ballen: specifically trying to not use any JS in this site
<br> adds to much overhead
<br> even its just a third file to download and just a few k
<br> still another request
<br> and JS is just about the most lame ass thing to deal with ever
mike-burns: Haha. I like JS, but I hate the DOM. And the browsers.
ballen: yea
<br> love how ruby has all these inline ways of writting in other langs
mike-burns: Ha yeah, to attempt to make up for defeciencies in the Ruby language.
ballen: yep
<br> if ya can't beat em, join em
mike-burns: I'm impressed with how long the whole Ruby thing has lasted.
ballen: "the whole Ruby thing" hah
mike-burns: RubyConf sold out in like 8 hours this year. On a Friday night.
ballen: yea, lots of people love Ruby, myself included
mike-burns: I just use it for my day job, that's all.
ballen: it'll prolly be easier to use RubyInline as then I don't have to install a Haskell compiler
mike-burns: Hah, and learn Haskell.
ballen: since GCC will be installed everywhere this site will
<br> meh, not worried about learning anything
<br> eazy enough to find samples
<br> easy* even
mike-burns: I think Hubris requires jhc, which is harder to install than ghc. Good idea to just use gcc.
ballen: yea
mike-burns: Anyway I gotta sleep.
ballen: alright later man
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up_the_irons: pretty interesting: http://www.internetnews.com/dev-news/article.php/3835746
<br> "FreeBSD 8 Getting New Routing Architecture"
dbgi: will u offer freebsd 8 when it comes out?