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visinin has quit IRC ("sleep") up_the_irons: ballen|away: i'd ask you to convert, like, /26 into 255.255.255.192
ballen|away: and vice versa ***: heavysixer has joined #arpnetworks
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Chand` has joined #Arpnetworks Chand`: !request up_the_irons: hehe
Chand`: welcome to #arpnetworks Chand`: tq
like where do I get a free vps here? ***: heavysixer has joined #arpnetworks Chand`: ? up_the_irons: Chand`: there are no free vps' here ***: nuke^ is now known as nuke Chand`: you mean
?
up_the_irons : ?you mean ***: heavysixer has quit IRC () Chand`: up_the_irons : you mean? up_the_irons: Chand`: i don't understand Chand`: I'm sorry because I'm from Indonesia so it is not too fluent in English
:-) up_the_irons: that's alright Chand`: whether there's a shell or a vps for free?? up_the_irons: Chand`: there is no VPS for free
or free shells Chand`: if the shell?
? up_the_irons: no shells Chand`: ;-9
;-(
if you can help me to get a free shell?
please up_the_irons: Chand`: http://www.red-pill.eu/freeunix.shtml Chand`:
if you have a shell? up_the_irons: bed time for me
cd $rest ***: vtoms has joined #arpnetworks sroute: up_the_irons: going to bed just as I'm starting again LOL
Somehow managed not to work half the night. This "sleeping" thing is kinda cool.
Might try it again sometime... ***: nuke has quit IRC (Nick collision from services.)
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dbgi has quit IRC (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)) jeev: so who here has a freebs vps ***: heavysixer has joined #arpnetworks
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ballen|away is now known as ballen mhoran: jeev: Me, ballen, mike-burns, others, I'm sure. jeev: do you build packges
like apache or pkg_add -r ? mike-burns: I just use the ports. jeev: so you build from it
is it slow
;/ mike-burns: Nope.
It's about as fast as my normal dev machine. jeev: cool mike-burns: I also don't install a lot of software on my servers.
46 ports installed in total, and I'd guess a majority of that is autotools-related. jeev: ok cool mhoran: jeev: Same here.
Never really had a problem with ports.
It's great to be able to keep up to date so easily. mike-burns: I recently tried portmaster and it feels nicer than portupgrade. jeev: you guys use portsnap sroute: jeev - I have a FreeBSD "vps" with Arp too. Very pleased with it. I also run my own machines elsewhere on the planet but will be using more virtual machines in the future.
portsnap && portmaster are my tools of choice at present. mike-burns: Haven't tried portsnap, but it sure looks useful. sroute: easy-peasy ballen: also portupgrade sroute: sudo portsnap fetch && sudo portsnap extract - first go around ballen: which is a port in its self sroute: from then on sudo portsnap fetch && sudo portsnap update
Very fast. jeev: yea man i have a ton of servers, i just wanted a vps sroute: First extract will take a while of course but from then on its slick. mike-burns: This replaces cvsup? sroute: jeev - for all intents and purposes the vps will look like a real server - you can even rebuild and install your own kernel
mike-burns: yup
mike-burns: as far as I can tell there are no downsides to using portsnap over cvsup - probably cvsup for ports will one day be deprecated. Or should be. mike-burns: Cool, I'll try it next time I upgrade. jeev: how funny
a clients server ram just failed sroute: I'm running an update on one machine right now... just started. I'll tell you when it is done jeev: i just started using svn on a test server for 7-stable sroute: Done.
$ sudo portsnap fetch && sudo portsnap update
Looking up portsnap.FreeBSD.org mirrors... 3 mirrors found.
Fetching snapshot tag from portsnap1.FreeBSD.org... done.
Fetching snapshot metadata... done.
Updating from Sun Sep 27 13:13:53 PDT 2009 to Wed Sep 30 08:50:51 PDT 2009....
--snip-- extracts a bunch of new files.
like I said, the first extract will take a while, as would an "update" if you do one say six months from now. But it is far faster than cvsup for most users and certainly is so for frequent users. mhoran: portsnap is great, as is freebsd-update
(Written by the same guy!) mike-burns: Makes sense. mhoran: I wish the ports system had a config management system similar to that of mergemaster.
I don't like having to figure out that on my own.
Granted, /usr/ports/UPDATING usually helps, but still. mike-burns: Which ports give you issues? mhoran: Dovecot changes its options every point release. It's obnoxious. mike-burns: Oh, that's harsh. mhoran: There are always little things that break when the defaults change. I want to know that. BeBoo_: sroute, you know you can do portsnap fetch update ?
instead of 2 commands mike-burns: I wish something were automated for PostgreSQL upgrades, along that line too. mhoran: ... not have to recovery a week later when I realize my mail server has been down because Dovecot hasn't started.
BeBoo_: Yeah, the combined command is nice.
There's alsoa cron command that doesn't actually do the merge to be safe, but I'd like to implement that someday to e-mail me weekly with pkg_version -v -l < or something similar.
mike-burns: Debian has some stuff, but, yeah. ***: ballen has quit IRC () jeev: you guys use suphp ? mhoran: Never heard of it. jeev: its like suexec, for php mhoran: Huh! sroute: BeBoo_: thanks. an old habit which will change now... BeBoo_: jeev: i believe i have in the past mhoran: I use lighttpd, so my config is a bit different. jeev: cool
yea i use lighttpd for a cust BeBoo_: sroute: does the same thing but saves some typing. =] jeev: funny thing is his server got hacked with lighttpd cause of a script mhoran: :( jeev: no, the sites on apache got owned, not lighttpd
i dunno why, they were all in one fodler
i suggested we move each site to a new username mhoran: Interesting. jeev: we have yet to do so though
it's best to segregate * -: sroute thinks it is best to rm php* mhoran: We're in the process of moving our apps off to separate VMs, since our Wordpress install just got owned. BeBoo_: :o jeev: seriously mhoran: sroute: Agreed.
Too bad we just deployed a huge Joomla installation.
Whoops! BeBoo_: jeev: can always jail each site if you wanted to go that far sroute: I think I will have to break down and write a minimalist webmail app so that I can actually remove PHP from one of our boxes. At least I have the one app - squirrelmail - running via PHP in a jail mhoran: Hm. Maybe I'll look into suphp for our wordpress install. jeev: i've gotta get more into it and see what's going on
what do you use to jail sroute: This jail is by hand; I have used ezjail as well too and like it when I am doling out large numbers of them. jeev: ahh sroute: I don't suppose anyone has a decent webmail app, non PHP, preferably in Python, they have experience with and like? jeev: nope, i use horde mhoran: Hm. That'd be nice. BeBoo_: sroute: http://bobomail.sourceforge.net/ sroute: Am seriously thinking of firing up a project. I have some experience writing mail apps but not sure I want to dive that deep. jeev: cat believeskewed
[11:11am] <xsamurai> fatalnix:
woops
cant believe i clicked on the localhost link mhoran: bobomail really needs some UI help. :) sroute: BeBoo_: I believe I've run across that link before... quite ancient - dates back to Python 1.x days and that was a LONG time ago. BeBoo_: ah. i just googled =[11:17] <mhoran> # Apache 1.3.11, Apache 1.3.12 mhoran: # Mozilla M15/ Netscape Navigator 4.7 sroute: "Bobo" is a term that Zope used to be referred to as. mhoran: Yeah, this uses Zope, it seems.
Looks dead. :( sroute: There just isn't anything for Python that seems active; a couple of times a year I check out the state of affairs.
http://posterity.edgewall.org/ is one... but also seems inactive. Just not as old as bobomail mhoran: I'd like the UI of Roundcube (without the OS X style, but the AJAX and general layout is nice) written ins omething other than PHP.
Then I'd just need to find a replacement for Mediawiki (probably not going to happen) and phpBB (yuck). sroute: http://divmod.org/trac/wiki/DivmodQuotient is another, seems stalled. Not quite sure what those folks are up to these days.
Someone started a project on Google Code last year http://code.google.com/p/webpymail/
But no updates since January. ***: Thorgrimr has quit IRC (anthony.freenode.net irc.freenode.net)
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timburke has quit IRC (anthony.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) mhoran: Hm. Why is my lighttpd serving up an expired certificate. :( sroute: I guess OpenWebMail (perl) might be an option. http://www.openwebmail.org/
Or I stick with sqmail in a jail, where all PHP apps belong. squirrel mail probably isn't that bad off although there have been the odd security issues with it, as there are with most all software regardless of language ***: Thorgrimr has joined #arpnetworks
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toddf has joined #arpnetworks up_the_irons: wow, i got some scrollback to read, don't i sroute: while the cat is away... BeBoo_: lol up_the_irons: sroute: i also tried to "sleeping" thing last night, but woke up at like 4AM and had to get on the laptop BeBoo_: "sleep" ? what is that? mike-burns: It's something that doesn't work right when you mix FreeBSD and KVM. -: mike-burns is pleased with that pun up_the_irons: as i'm reading the scrollback about portsnap and cvsup, let me say i wish they deprecated CVS entirely and just used git; git is so much faster than any alternative out there, by a mile; anyone who has used it knows what i mean mike-burns: git is the fastest I've tried, but there has been a crazy amount of improvements to darcs over the past month. jeev: git is cool but was pissing me off
i had messed up the kvm branch of git and wanted to redownload everything
it kept saying already up to date, do you know what to do in that situation ? mike-burns: git reset --hard ? up_the_irons: BeBoo_: "sleep" is something they used to make a while ago; it got discontinued due to lack of sales
jeev: why not just re-clone? jeev: i didn't know what to do
i rm'd it up_the_irons: if you want to really "start over"
what to do would depend on how you "messed up the [branch]"
no universal solution mike-burns: I've suggested before: I'd love if there was a 'git undo' command, that I could keep typing until I got to the initial checkin.
It'd just magically undo whatever I just did, and if it gets to the point where I cloned it then it'd undo what the prior person did.
That's my dream. up_the_irons: i saw some alias for 'undo' i think, not sure if it worked well
mike-burns: there's some nice tidbits here sometimes: http://www.gitready.com/ mike-burns: Hah. gitready worked next to me for six months. up_the_irons: worked? mike-burns: He's a CS students at RIT. up_the_irons: ah , haha
nice mike-burns: He had an internship at my company.
Any git problem I had, he fixed. It was great. up_the_irons: LOL
office time
cd $office BeBoo_: No such file or directory dbgi: lo ***: ballen has joined #arpnetworks
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nuke` has joined #arpnetworks sroute: python
wrong window. ballen: indeed sroute: for x in range(100000000): print("oops") ballen: (0..100000000).each { print "oops" } jeev: dam man
qemu is going slowwwwwwwww, without kvm ballen: ruby is so much better :-) jeev: install ;D ballen: prints = puts though sroute: ballen - whatever fits our brains is better
thankfully PHP isn't among the choices for you and me LOL ballen: yea I agree, its just fun to argue
yea PHP is lame sroute: i'm too old for language wars myself
but it can be fun... once in a while ballen: ever do fuzzy logic searches ? sroute: not as a matter of course... why? ballen: just trying to figure out a way to do it that doesn't involve multiple calls to the db
searching for a name
the db has First Last in a field sroute: ah; for that I've had to rely on search engine technology in my past. ballen: yea sroute: Used to do a bunch of work with Fulcrum, OpenText
document and content management systems, workflow, imaging - that was my area of expertise. ballen: ah right on
meh screw fuzzy logic
not worth the crap ton of extra queries
or storing an extra index sroute: Postgres has (or had, been a while since I looked) a "soundex" library
Might be worth looking around for something similar for your db of choice. ballen: yea not using a relation db for this project sroute: Ah. ballen: likly I have the speed to do the queries
of the various permutation of the search
but it seems like an ugly way of doing it
I guess I could ensure everything is downcased
for the search
that would eleminate some issues sroute: Not looked at soundex algorithms of late but is one approach. Of course non-English names complicate matters greatly. ballen: hmm yea very true
http://unirec.blogspot.com/2007/12/live-fuzzy-search-using-n-grams-in.html
there n-grams approach ***: getchar has joined #arpnetworks up_the_irons: getchar!
how very C of you ballen: what now sroute: ballen: just for fun I built a quicky Levenshtein distance calculator; a brute force run through a list of 200,000 words takes quite a while to return this for the search value "Mike":
>>> def closest(key, iterable, top=5): ***: up_the_irons is now known as fgetc sroute: ... result = []
... for i, value in enumerate(iterable):
... result.append(i, value, levenshtein(key, value)) fgetc: getchar: sup sroute: ... return sorted(result, key=lambda x: x[2])[:top] ***: fgetc is now known as up_the_irons -: sroute wonders if I've stumbled into #Remedial_C_for_insomniacs ballen: hah
sroute, whats the levenshtein method look like sroute: gonna grab some dinner
here's an implementation: http://hetland.org/coding/python/levenshtein.py ballen: thx sroute: precalculating ngram style like the better approach for a big word corpus
but for a smallish body... lev might be just fine. 10 seconds for 200,000 words on my slow dev machine ballen: yea trade off being using up more storage
in which my db runs in memory sroute: anyway, fun to think about this stuff again. I actually need a fuzzy match solution. ballen: so storage is a premium sroute: my db is a python object db, not a SQL back end ballen: thanks for the suggestions sroute: see, Python and Ruby folks DO get along LOL ballen: hah
indeed -: sroute looks for a PHP maven to stun with a Taser ballen: lmao
hmm I'm guessing I could iterate though name index
see how it does sroute: mostly (partly?) kidding.
c u folks later... dinner calls. up_the_irons: l8r ballen: prolly could use RubyInline to write the method in ruby
in C jeev: up_the_irons
qemu is so nasty without kvm up_the_irons: jeev: it's a software emulator, so sure it's nasty ;) jeev: nasty.
xen is SO much faster up_the_irons: xen is not a software emulator
you're comparing apples and oranges on that one
i gotta leave the office now, talk to u guys later ballen: k bye ***: heavysixer has quit IRC () jeev: ahh
what's the difference then between xen and qemu ballen: Xen is paravirtulizaed, Qemu/KVM is full-vert jeev: what if it's not KVM
just Qemu vs Xen ballen: same diff just not running in the kernel
or rather not using Intel VT or AMD-V CPU extentions jeev: hmm
the qemu box is crawwwwwwwwwwling on a slackware install
but xen, debian was fast
i know it's not necessarily debian that's fast
but i think it's just qemu that is crawwwwwwwwwwwwling ballen: xen is inertially faster than Qemu, but requires a modified ghost OS kernel ***: dj_goku_ has joined #arpnetworks
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dbgi has quit IRC (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) sroute: ballen... turns out the fastest way to get fuzzy matching in Python is to look at the docs. difflib module fills the bill... ballen: heh how about in Ruby? ***: dbgi2IAm is now known as dbgi sroute: Here's an example - lets get 17,000 words or so in a list
>>> W = [w.strip() for w in open('/usr/share/dict/words') if len(w) < 7 and len(w) > 3]
>>> len(W)
16920
>>> difflib.get_close_matches('Mike', W)
['Mike', 'Mikey', 'sike']
>>> difflib.get_close_matches('Fred', W)
['Fred', 'red', 'roed']
>>> difflib.get_close_matches('naancy', W)
['nancy', 'nanny', 'nacry']
>>> difflib.get_close_matches('heelga', W)
['heel', 'wheel', 'shela']
>>> difflib.get_close_matches('sheilla', W)
['shill', 'shell', 'shela']
>>> difflib.get_close_matches('Bobbty', W)
['Bobby', 'sobby', 'pobby']
Not bad. Pretty fast too. ballen: nice, any idea on big o complexity of it? -: sroute chalks this up as learn something new today. sroute: difflib module I see is 2000 lines long. Let me have a quick read ballen: feck
2k lines sroute: get_close_matches however is not very long at all.
However it does depend on a SequenceMatcher class which is somewhat lengthy.
http://blade.nagaokaut.ac.jp/cgi-bin/scat.rb/ruby/ruby-talk/293796 ballen: nice thanks
likely it won't work with Ruby 1.9
but will try sroute: meh. apparently it is October somewhere on the planet already. ballen: ew
I don't want snow sroute: mailing list reminders have an undesirable side effect of reminding me how fast time passes
snow? isn't everyone located in Monaco like me? ballen: heh, nope sroute: lol it was 33 degrees (C) in Calgary last week while I was there; back in Vancouver it was 6 or 7 C this morning. ballen: 50F here sroute: Not looking forward to snow either although I think the 2010 Winter Olympic organizers in this city are sure hoping it does before Feb. ballen: likely jeev: i wish i could code sroute: me too ;)
more seriously... if you want it, just dive in.
http://diveintopython.org/
Or in Ruby (I don't know anything about this site) http://rubylearning.com/
cul8tr ballen: heh
CSS can be annoying ***: up_the_irons has quit IRC (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out))
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nuke^ is now known as nuke jeev: damn
slack has been isntalling through qemu without kvm for 4 hours, still going ballen: me thinks you should use something else jeev: yea qemu bows
blows
didnt you suggest vmware ballen: yes jeev: it will work well without kvm ?
this is for a server with no kvm
xen spanks qemu without kvm ballen: like a literal kvm?
or the software jeev: vmx or whatever amd's capability
you iknow, the cpu capability
that makes your vm run sexy
you know what kvm is ? ballen: oh, yes you must have virtuization extensions for ESXi jeev: www.linux-kvm.org
oh ballen: yes I know what KVM jeev: damn ballen: is jeev: so im stuck with xen ;)
my kvm capable server is doing well ballen: can grab a trial of regualar ESX
which will run jeev: which is easier
virtualbox or esx
not easier but
less of a hassle ballen: why the hell am I tired its only 1:52 jeev: heh
im tired too and it's only 1052 ballen: getting pissed at my head
I can usually stay up till 4-5 no prob when working on a fun project jeev: last fun project i had was vagina mike-burns: ballen: You could use Hubris and write the method in Haskell, for Ruby. (Instead of using RubyInline.) (Responding to something way in the backlog.) ballen: whats Hubris mike-burns: It's a Haskell-to-Ruby marshaller. ballen: ah mike-burns: It's so you can write fast code for Ruby without writing C. ballen: yea I'm putting that task on the back burner for now
doing more UI and app logic for now mike-burns: The thrill and excitement of CSS and JS. ballen: no JS mike-burns: Smart.
JS is tricky to test. ballen: specifically trying to not use any JS in this site
adds to much overhead
even its just a third file to download and just a few k
still another request
and JS is just about the most lame ass thing to deal with ever mike-burns: Haha. I like JS, but I hate the DOM. And the browsers. ballen: yea
love how ruby has all these inline ways of writting in other langs mike-burns: Ha yeah, to attempt to make up for defeciencies in the Ruby language. ballen: yep
if ya can't beat em, join em mike-burns: I'm impressed with how long the whole Ruby thing has lasted. ballen: "the whole Ruby thing" hah mike-burns: RubyConf sold out in like 8 hours this year. On a Friday night. ballen: yea, lots of people love Ruby, myself included mike-burns: I just use it for my day job, that's all. ballen: it'll prolly be easier to use RubyInline as then I don't have to install a Haskell compiler mike-burns: Hah, and learn Haskell. ballen: since GCC will be installed everywhere this site will
meh, not worried about learning anything
eazy enough to find samples
easy* even mike-burns: I think Hubris requires jhc, which is harder to install than ghc. Good idea to just use gcc. ballen: yea mike-burns: Anyway I gotta sleep. ballen: alright later man ***: dbgi has quit IRC (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
dbgi has joined #arpnetworks up_the_irons: pretty interesting: http://www.internetnews.com/dev-news/article.php/3835746
"FreeBSD 8 Getting New Routing Architecture" dbgi: will u offer freebsd 8 when it comes out?