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| Who | What | When |
|---|---|---|
| *** | nuke has quit IRC (Nick collision from services.)
nuke^ has joined #arpnetworks | [02:32] |
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| up_the_irons | ballen|away: i'd ask you to convert, like, /26 into 255.255.255.192
ballen|away: and vice versa | [04:09] |
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| Chand` | !request | [05:44] |
| up_the_irons | hehe
Chand`: welcome to #arpnetworks | [05:55] |
| Chand` | tq
like where do I get a free vps here? | [05:58] |
| *** | heavysixer has joined #arpnetworks | [06:00] |
| Chand` | ? | [06:00] |
| up_the_irons | Chand`: there are no free vps' here | [06:01] |
| *** | nuke^ is now known as nuke | [06:02] |
| Chand` | you mean
? up_the_irons : ?you mean | [06:02] |
| *** | heavysixer has quit IRC () | [06:05] |
| Chand` | up_the_irons : you mean? | [06:05] |
| up_the_irons | Chand`: i don't understand | [06:05] |
| Chand` | I'm sorry because I'm from Indonesia so it is not too fluent in English
:-) | [06:07] |
| up_the_irons | that's alright | [06:09] |
| Chand` | whether there's a shell or a vps for free?? | [06:11] |
| up_the_irons | Chand`: there is no VPS for free
or free shells | [06:12] |
| Chand` | if the shell?
? | [06:12] |
| up_the_irons | no shells | [06:15] |
| Chand` | ;-9
;-( if you can help me to get a free shell? please | [06:15] |
| up_the_irons | Chand`: http://www.red-pill.eu/freeunix.shtml | [06:17] |
| Chand` |
if you have a shell? | [06:20] |
| up_the_irons | bed time for me
cd $rest | [06:22] |
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| sroute | up_the_irons: going to bed just as I'm starting again LOL
Somehow managed not to work half the night. This "sleeping" thing is kinda cool. Might try it again sometime... | [06:32] |
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| jeev | so who here has a freebs vps | [09:42] |
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| ballen|away is now known as ballen | [10:29] | |
| mhoran | jeev: Me, ballen, mike-burns, others, I'm sure. | [10:31] |
| jeev | do you build packges
like apache or pkg_add -r ? | [10:32] |
| mike-burns | I just use the ports. | [10:33] |
| jeev | so you build from it
is it slow ;/ | [10:33] |
| mike-burns | Nope.
It's about as fast as my normal dev machine. | [10:33] |
| jeev | cool | [10:34] |
| mike-burns | I also don't install a lot of software on my servers.
46 ports installed in total, and I'd guess a majority of that is autotools-related. | [10:34] |
| jeev | ok cool | [10:36] |
| mhoran | jeev: Same here.
Never really had a problem with ports. It's great to be able to keep up to date so easily. | [10:40] |
| mike-burns | I recently tried portmaster and it feels nicer than portupgrade. | [10:41] |
| jeev | you guys use portsnap | [10:49] |
| sroute | jeev - I have a FreeBSD "vps" with Arp too. Very pleased with it. I also run my own machines elsewhere on the planet but will be using more virtual machines in the future.
portsnap && portmaster are my tools of choice at present. | [10:50] |
| mike-burns | Haven't tried portsnap, but it sure looks useful. | [10:50] |
| sroute | easy-peasy | [10:51] |
| ballen | also portupgrade | [10:51] |
| sroute | sudo portsnap fetch && sudo portsnap extract - first go around | [10:51] |
| ballen | which is a port in its self | [10:51] |
| sroute | from then on sudo portsnap fetch && sudo portsnap update
Very fast. | [10:51] |
| jeev | yea man i have a ton of servers, i just wanted a vps | [10:52] |
| sroute | First extract will take a while of course but from then on its slick. | [10:52] |
| mike-burns | This replaces cvsup? | [10:52] |
| sroute | jeev - for all intents and purposes the vps will look like a real server - you can even rebuild and install your own kernel
mike-burns: yup mike-burns: as far as I can tell there are no downsides to using portsnap over cvsup - probably cvsup for ports will one day be deprecated. Or should be. | [10:53] |
| mike-burns | Cool, I'll try it next time I upgrade. | [10:54] |
| jeev | how funny
a clients server ram just failed | [10:55] |
| sroute | I'm running an update on one machine right now... just started. I'll tell you when it is done | [10:55] |
| jeev | i just started using svn on a test server for 7-stable | [10:55] |
| sroute | Done.
$ sudo portsnap fetch && sudo portsnap update Looking up portsnap.FreeBSD.org mirrors... 3 mirrors found. Fetching snapshot tag from portsnap1.FreeBSD.org... done. Fetching snapshot metadata... done. Updating from Sun Sep 27 13:13:53 PDT 2009 to Wed Sep 30 08:50:51 PDT 2009.... --snip-- extracts a bunch of new files. like I said, the first extract will take a while, as would an "update" if you do one say six months from now. But it is far faster than cvsup for most users and certainly is so for frequent users. | [10:55] |
| mhoran | portsnap is great, as is freebsd-update
(Written by the same guy!) | [11:04] |
| mike-burns | Makes sense. | [11:05] |
| mhoran | I wish the ports system had a config management system similar to that of mergemaster.
I don't like having to figure out that on my own. Granted, /usr/ports/UPDATING usually helps, but still. | [11:06] |
| mike-burns | Which ports give you issues? | [11:06] |
| mhoran | Dovecot changes its options every point release. It's obnoxious. | [11:07] |
| mike-burns | Oh, that's harsh. | [11:07] |
| mhoran | There are always little things that break when the defaults change. I want to know that. | [11:07] |
| BeBoo_ | sroute, you know you can do portsnap fetch update ?
instead of 2 commands | [11:07] |
| mike-burns | I wish something were automated for PostgreSQL upgrades, along that line too. | [11:07] |
| mhoran | ... not have to recovery a week later when I realize my mail server has been down because Dovecot hasn't started.
BeBoo_: Yeah, the combined command is nice. There's alsoa cron command that doesn't actually do the merge to be safe, but I'd like to implement that someday to e-mail me weekly with pkg_version -v -l < or something similar. mike-burns: Debian has some stuff, but, yeah. | [11:08] |
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| jeev | you guys use suphp ? | [11:10] |
| mhoran | Never heard of it. | [11:10] |
| jeev | its like suexec, for php | [11:10] |
| mhoran | Huh! | [11:10] |
| sroute | BeBoo_: thanks. an old habit which will change now... | [11:11] |
| BeBoo_ | jeev: i believe i have in the past | [11:11] |
| mhoran | I use lighttpd, so my config is a bit different. | [11:11] |
| jeev | cool
yea i use lighttpd for a cust | [11:11] |
| BeBoo_ | sroute: does the same thing but saves some typing. =] | [11:11] |
| jeev | funny thing is his server got hacked with lighttpd cause of a script | [11:11] |
| mhoran | :( | [11:11] |
| jeev | no, the sites on apache got owned, not lighttpd
i dunno why, they were all in one fodler i suggested we move each site to a new username | [11:11] |
| mhoran | Interesting. | [11:12] |
| jeev | we have yet to do so though
it's best to segregate * | [11:12] |
| sroute | sroute thinks it is best to rm php* | [11:12] |
| mhoran | We're in the process of moving our apps off to separate VMs, since our Wordpress install just got owned. | [11:12] |
| BeBoo_ | :o | [11:12] |
| jeev | seriously | [11:12] |
| mhoran | sroute: Agreed.
Too bad we just deployed a huge Joomla installation. Whoops! | [11:12] |
| BeBoo_ | jeev: can always jail each site if you wanted to go that far | [11:13] |
| sroute | I think I will have to break down and write a minimalist webmail app so that I can actually remove PHP from one of our boxes. At least I have the one app - squirrelmail - running via PHP in a jail | [11:14] |
| mhoran | Hm. Maybe I'll look into suphp for our wordpress install. | [11:14] |
| jeev | i've gotta get more into it and see what's going on
what do you use to jail | [11:14] |
| sroute | This jail is by hand; I have used ezjail as well too and like it when I am doling out large numbers of them. | [11:14] |
| jeev | ahh | [11:15] |
| sroute | I don't suppose anyone has a decent webmail app, non PHP, preferably in Python, they have experience with and like? | [11:15] |
| jeev | nope, i use horde | [11:15] |
| mhoran | Hm. That'd be nice. | [11:15] |
| BeBoo_ | sroute: http://bobomail.sourceforge.net/ | [11:16] |
| sroute | Am seriously thinking of firing up a project. I have some experience writing mail apps but not sure I want to dive that deep. | [11:16] |
| jeev | cat believeskewed
[11:11am] <xsamurai> fatalnix: woops cant believe i clicked on the localhost link | [11:16] |
| mhoran | bobomail really needs some UI help. :) | [11:17] |
| sroute | BeBoo_: I believe I've run across that link before... quite ancient - dates back to Python 1.x days and that was a LONG time ago. | [11:17] |
| BeBoo_ | ah. i just googled =[11:17] <mhoran> # Apache 1.3.11, Apache 1.3.12 | [11:17] |
| mhoran | # Mozilla M15/ Netscape Navigator 4.7 | [11:18] |
| sroute | "Bobo" is a term that Zope used to be referred to as. | [11:18] |
| mhoran | Yeah, this uses Zope, it seems.
Looks dead. :( | [11:18] |
| sroute | There just isn't anything for Python that seems active; a couple of times a year I check out the state of affairs.
http://posterity.edgewall.org/ is one... but also seems inactive. Just not as old as bobomail | [11:19] |
| mhoran | I'd like the UI of Roundcube (without the OS X style, but the AJAX and general layout is nice) written ins omething other than PHP.
Then I'd just need to find a replacement for Mediawiki (probably not going to happen) and phpBB (yuck). | [11:20] |
| sroute | http://divmod.org/trac/wiki/DivmodQuotient is another, seems stalled. Not quite sure what those folks are up to these days.
Someone started a project on Google Code last year http://code.google.com/p/webpymail/ But no updates since January. | [11:21] |
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| mhoran | Hm. Why is my lighttpd serving up an expired certificate. :( | [11:24] |
| sroute | I guess OpenWebMail (perl) might be an option. http://www.openwebmail.org/
Or I stick with sqmail in a jail, where all PHP apps belong. squirrel mail probably isn't that bad off although there have been the odd security issues with it, as there are with most all software regardless of language | [11:24] |
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| up_the_irons | wow, i got some scrollback to read, don't i | [11:59] |
| sroute | while the cat is away... | [11:59] |
| BeBoo_ | lol | [12:01] |
| up_the_irons | sroute: i also tried to "sleeping" thing last night, but woke up at like 4AM and had to get on the laptop | [12:04] |
| BeBoo_ | "sleep" ? what is that? | [12:05] |
| mike-burns | It's something that doesn't work right when you mix FreeBSD and KVM.
mike-burns is pleased with that pun | [12:05] |
| up_the_irons | as i'm reading the scrollback about portsnap and cvsup, let me say i wish they deprecated CVS entirely and just used git; git is so much faster than any alternative out there, by a mile; anyone who has used it knows what i mean | [12:08] |
| mike-burns | git is the fastest I've tried, but there has been a crazy amount of improvements to darcs over the past month. | [12:10] |
| jeev | git is cool but was pissing me off
i had messed up the kvm branch of git and wanted to redownload everything it kept saying already up to date, do you know what to do in that situation ? | [12:10] |
| mike-burns | git reset --hard ? | [12:11] |
| up_the_irons | BeBoo_: "sleep" is something they used to make a while ago; it got discontinued due to lack of sales
jeev: why not just re-clone? | [12:11] |
| jeev | i didn't know what to do
i rm'd it | [12:12] |
| up_the_irons | if you want to really "start over"
what to do would depend on how you "messed up the [branch]" no universal solution | [12:12] |
| mike-burns | I've suggested before: I'd love if there was a 'git undo' command, that I could keep typing until I got to the initial checkin.
It'd just magically undo whatever I just did, and if it gets to the point where I cloned it then it'd undo what the prior person did. That's my dream. | [12:13] |
| up_the_irons | i saw some alias for 'undo' i think, not sure if it worked well
mike-burns: there's some nice tidbits here sometimes: http://www.gitready.com/ | [12:14] |
| mike-burns | Hah. gitready worked next to me for six months. | [12:15] |
| up_the_irons | worked? | [12:15] |
| mike-burns | He's a CS students at RIT. | [12:15] |
| up_the_irons | ah , haha
nice | [12:15] |
| mike-burns | He had an internship at my company.
Any git problem I had, he fixed. It was great. | [12:15] |
| up_the_irons | LOL
office time cd $office | [12:16] |
| BeBoo_ | No such file or directory | [12:17] |
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| dbgi | lo | [13:31] |
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| ballen | ping | [16:14] |
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| sroute | python
wrong window. | [17:50] |
| ballen | indeed | [17:50] |
| sroute | for x in range(100000000): print("oops") | [17:51] |
| ballen | (0..100000000).each { print "oops" } | [17:52] |
| jeev | dam man
qemu is going slowwwwwwwww, without kvm | [17:52] |
| ballen | ruby is so much better :-) | [17:52] |
| jeev | install ;D | [17:52] |
| ballen | prints = puts though | [17:52] |
| sroute | ballen - whatever fits our brains is better
thankfully PHP isn't among the choices for you and me LOL | [17:53] |
| ballen | yea I agree, its just fun to argue
yea PHP is lame | [17:53] |
| sroute | i'm too old for language wars myself
but it can be fun... once in a while | [17:53] |
| ballen | ever do fuzzy logic searches ? | [17:54] |
| sroute | not as a matter of course... why? | [17:54] |
| ballen | just trying to figure out a way to do it that doesn't involve multiple calls to the db
searching for a name the db has First Last in a field | [17:54] |
| sroute | ah; for that I've had to rely on search engine technology in my past. | [17:55] |
| ballen | yea | [17:55] |
| sroute | Used to do a bunch of work with Fulcrum, OpenText
document and content management systems, workflow, imaging - that was my area of expertise. | [17:55] |
| ballen | ah right on
meh screw fuzzy logic not worth the crap ton of extra queries or storing an extra index | [17:56] |
| sroute | Postgres has (or had, been a while since I looked) a "soundex" library
Might be worth looking around for something similar for your db of choice. | [18:00] |
| ballen | yea not using a relation db for this project | [18:01] |
| sroute | Ah. | [18:01] |
| ballen | likly I have the speed to do the queries
of the various permutation of the search but it seems like an ugly way of doing it I guess I could ensure everything is downcased for the search that would eleminate some issues | [18:01] |
| sroute | Not looked at soundex algorithms of late but is one approach. Of course non-English names complicate matters greatly. | [18:02] |
| ballen | hmm yea very true
http://unirec.blogspot.com/2007/12/live-fuzzy-search-using-n-grams-in.html there n-grams approach | [18:03] |
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| up_the_irons | getchar!
how very C of you | [19:02] |
| ballen | what now | [19:02] |
| sroute | ballen: just for fun I built a quicky Levenshtein distance calculator; a brute force run through a list of 200,000 words takes quite a while to return this for the search value "Mike":
>>> def closest(key, iterable, top=5): | [19:05] |
| *** | up_the_irons is now known as fgetc | [19:05] |
| sroute | ... result = []
... for i, value in enumerate(iterable): ... result.append(i, value, levenshtein(key, value)) | [19:05] |
| fgetc | getchar: sup | [19:05] |
| sroute | ... return sorted(result, key=lambda x: x[2])[:top] | [19:05] |
| *** | fgetc is now known as up_the_irons | [19:05] |
| sroute | sroute wonders if I've stumbled into #Remedial_C_for_insomniacs | [19:06] |
| ballen | hah
sroute, whats the levenshtein method look like | [19:06] |
| sroute | gonna grab some dinner
here's an implementation: http://hetland.org/coding/python/levenshtein.py | [19:07] |
| ballen | thx | [19:07] |
| sroute | precalculating ngram style like the better approach for a big word corpus
but for a smallish body... lev might be just fine. 10 seconds for 200,000 words on my slow dev machine | [19:07] |
| ballen | yea trade off being using up more storage
in which my db runs in memory | [19:08] |
| sroute | anyway, fun to think about this stuff again. I actually need a fuzzy match solution. | [19:08] |
| ballen | so storage is a premium | [19:08] |
| sroute | my db is a python object db, not a SQL back end | [19:08] |
| ballen | thanks for the suggestions | [19:09] |
| sroute | see, Python and Ruby folks DO get along LOL | [19:09] |
| ballen | hah
indeed | [19:09] |
| sroute | sroute looks for a PHP maven to stun with a Taser | [19:10] |
| ballen | lmao
hmm I'm guessing I could iterate though name index see how it does | [19:10] |
| sroute | mostly (partly?) kidding.
c u folks later... dinner calls. | [19:11] |
| up_the_irons | l8r | [19:15] |
| ballen | prolly could use RubyInline to write the method in ruby
in C | [19:15] |
| jeev | up_the_irons
qemu is so nasty without kvm | [19:16] |
| up_the_irons | jeev: it's a software emulator, so sure it's nasty ;) | [19:19] |
| jeev | nasty.
xen is SO much faster | [19:19] |
| up_the_irons | xen is not a software emulator
you're comparing apples and oranges on that one i gotta leave the office now, talk to u guys later | [19:21] |
| ballen | k bye | [19:22] |
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| jeev | ahh
what's the difference then between xen and qemu | [19:33] |
| ballen | Xen is paravirtulizaed, Qemu/KVM is full-vert | [19:34] |
| jeev | what if it's not KVM
just Qemu vs Xen | [19:35] |
| ballen | same diff just not running in the kernel
or rather not using Intel VT or AMD-V CPU extentions | [19:37] |
| jeev | hmm
the qemu box is crawwwwwwwwwwling on a slackware install but xen, debian was fast i know it's not necessarily debian that's fast but i think it's just qemu that is crawwwwwwwwwwwwling | [19:42] |
| ballen | xen is inertially faster than Qemu, but requires a modified ghost OS kernel | [19:43] |
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| sroute | ballen... turns out the fastest way to get fuzzy matching in Python is to look at the docs. difflib module fills the bill... | [20:32] |
| ballen | heh how about in Ruby? | [20:32] |
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| sroute | Here's an example - lets get 17,000 words or so in a list
>>> W = [w.strip() for w in open('/usr/share/dict/words') if len(w) < 7 and len(w) > 3] >>> len(W) 16920 >>> difflib.get_close_matches('Mike', W) ['Mike', 'Mikey', 'sike'] >>> difflib.get_close_matches('Fred', W) ['Fred', 'red', 'roed'] >>> difflib.get_close_matches('naancy', W) ['nancy', 'nanny', 'nacry'] >>> difflib.get_close_matches('heelga', W) ['heel', 'wheel', 'shela'] >>> difflib.get_close_matches('sheilla', W) ['shill', 'shell', 'shela'] >>> difflib.get_close_matches('Bobbty', W) ['Bobby', 'sobby', 'pobby'] Not bad. Pretty fast too. | [20:33] |
| ballen | nice, any idea on big o complexity of it? | [20:33] |
| sroute | sroute chalks this up as learn something new today.
difflib module I see is 2000 lines long. Let me have a quick read | [20:34] |
| ballen | feck
2k lines | [20:35] |
| sroute | get_close_matches however is not very long at all.
However it does depend on a SequenceMatcher class which is somewhat lengthy. http://blade.nagaokaut.ac.jp/cgi-bin/scat.rb/ruby/ruby-talk/293796 | [20:36] |
| ballen | nice thanks
likely it won't work with Ruby 1.9 but will try | [20:39] |
| sroute | meh. apparently it is October somewhere on the planet already. | [20:40] |
| ballen | ew
I don't want snow | [20:40] |
| sroute | mailing list reminders have an undesirable side effect of reminding me how fast time passes
snow? isn't everyone located in Monaco like me? | [20:40] |
| ballen | heh, nope | [20:41] |
| sroute | lol it was 33 degrees (C) in Calgary last week while I was there; back in Vancouver it was 6 or 7 C this morning. | [20:41] |
| ballen | 50F here | [20:42] |
| sroute | Not looking forward to snow either although I think the 2010 Winter Olympic organizers in this city are sure hoping it does before Feb. | [20:42] |
| ballen | likely | [20:43] |
| jeev | i wish i could code | [20:45] |
| sroute | me too ;)
more seriously... if you want it, just dive in. http://diveintopython.org/ Or in Ruby (I don't know anything about this site) http://rubylearning.com/ cul8tr | [20:48] |
| ballen | heh
CSS can be annoying | [20:51] |
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| nuke^ is now known as nuke | [22:19] | |
| jeev | damn
slack has been isntalling through qemu without kvm for 4 hours, still going | [22:31] |
| ballen | me thinks you should use something else | [22:32] |
| .... (idle for 16mn) | ||
| jeev | yea qemu bows
blows didnt you suggest vmware | [22:48] |
| ballen | yes | [22:48] |
| jeev | it will work well without kvm ?
this is for a server with no kvm xen spanks qemu without kvm | [22:48] |
| ballen | like a literal kvm?
or the software | [22:49] |
| jeev | vmx or whatever amd's capability
you iknow, the cpu capability that makes your vm run sexy you know what kvm is ? | [22:49] |
| ballen | oh, yes you must have virtuization extensions for ESXi | [22:50] |
| jeev | www.linux-kvm.org
oh | [22:50] |
| ballen | yes I know what KVM | [22:50] |
| jeev | damn | [22:50] |
| ballen | is | [22:50] |
| jeev | so im stuck with xen ;)
my kvm capable server is doing well | [22:50] |
| ballen | can grab a trial of regualar ESX
which will run | [22:50] |
| jeev | which is easier
virtualbox or esx not easier but less of a hassle | [22:50] |
| ballen | why the hell am I tired its only 1:52 | [22:52] |
| jeev | heh
im tired too and it's only 1052 | [22:52] |
| ballen | getting pissed at my head
I can usually stay up till 4-5 no prob when working on a fun project | [22:52] |
| jeev | last fun project i had was vagina | [22:53] |
| mike-burns | ballen: You could use Hubris and write the method in Haskell, for Ruby. (Instead of using RubyInline.) (Responding to something way in the backlog.) | [22:59] |
| ballen | whats Hubris | [23:00] |
| mike-burns | It's a Haskell-to-Ruby marshaller. | [23:00] |
| ballen | ah | [23:00] |
| mike-burns | It's so you can write fast code for Ruby without writing C. | [23:00] |
| ballen | yea I'm putting that task on the back burner for now
doing more UI and app logic for now | [23:01] |
| mike-burns | The thrill and excitement of CSS and JS. | [23:02] |
| ballen | no JS | [23:02] |
| mike-burns | Smart.
JS is tricky to test. | [23:03] |
| ballen | specifically trying to not use any JS in this site
adds to much overhead even its just a third file to download and just a few k still another request and JS is just about the most lame ass thing to deal with ever | [23:03] |
| mike-burns | Haha. I like JS, but I hate the DOM. And the browsers. | [23:04] |
| ballen | yea | [23:04] |
| love how ruby has all these inline ways of writting in other langs | [23:10] | |
| mike-burns | Ha yeah, to attempt to make up for defeciencies in the Ruby language. | [23:11] |
| ballen | yep
if ya can't beat em, join em | [23:11] |
| mike-burns | I'm impressed with how long the whole Ruby thing has lasted. | [23:12] |
| ballen | "the whole Ruby thing" hah | [23:12] |
| mike-burns | RubyConf sold out in like 8 hours this year. On a Friday night. | [23:12] |
| ballen | yea, lots of people love Ruby, myself included | [23:13] |
| mike-burns | I just use it for my day job, that's all. | [23:13] |
| ballen | it'll prolly be easier to use RubyInline as then I don't have to install a Haskell compiler | [23:14] |
| mike-burns | Hah, and learn Haskell. | [23:14] |
| ballen | since GCC will be installed everywhere this site will
meh, not worried about learning anything eazy enough to find samples easy* even | [23:14] |
| mike-burns | I think Hubris requires jhc, which is harder to install than ghc. Good idea to just use gcc. | [23:15] |
| ballen | yea | [23:15] |
| mike-burns | Anyway I gotta sleep. | [23:17] |
| ballen | alright later man | [23:17] |
| *** | dbgi has quit IRC (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
dbgi has joined #arpnetworks | [23:26] |
| ....... (idle for 30mn) | ||
| up_the_irons | pretty interesting: http://www.internetnews.com/dev-news/article.php/3835746
"FreeBSD 8 Getting New Routing Architecture" | [23:56] |
| dbgi | will u offer freebsd 8 when it comes out? | [23:59] |
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