#arpnetworks 2009-09-21,Mon

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WhoWhatWhen
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ballenalmost have a workable prototype working woot [00:07]
up_the_ironsballen: nice [00:15]
ballenwhat are some "voting" type websites, theres Digg, Mixx, Reddit... [00:22]
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toddfup_the_irons: I have a diff for that, but it was not accepted because they wanted a more comprehensive privacyctl of sorts, that in turn never got implemented [03:55]
up_the_ironstoddf: roger [03:55]
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nuke^hi up_the_irons
afternoon all 		[06:05]
mhoranMorning! [06:13]
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up_the_ironshey nuke^
hey, we have a new person
jester1: hey jester1
welcome to #arpnetworks 		[11:38]
ballenwoot a new person [11:39]
jester1Hi! [11:39]
up_the_irons19 people!!
i think that's a record 		[11:39]
ballenbig leagues [11:39]
jester1I need a FreeBSD VPS, and thought I'd look at you guys. [11:39]
up_the_ironssweet
ballen: ya know, given how many people are in #slicehost (~ 180) compared to how many customers they have, I'd say I have *way* more customer engangement / community involvment right here in #arpnetworks ;) 		[11:39]
ballenindeed the IRC to customer ratio is much higher at arp [11:41]
mhoranThat's how we roll. [11:41]
ballenwe're one big happy family [11:41]
up_the_ironsLOL [11:41]
mhoranThe met-in-IRL and degrees of connection are also more favorable. [11:42]
up_the_ironsjester1: if you have any questions, just let us know [11:42]
jester1up_the_irons: thanks. [11:42]
up_the_ironsmhoran: yeah, totally
mhoran: i've met IRL: heavysixer, cablehead, Qsource 		[11:42]
jester1Nothing specific now--if you're stable, that's pretty much what I need :-) I don't care about fancy GUI interfaces and so forth, I'd rather save the money. [11:43]
up_the_ironsjester1: good, cuz I don't like fancy GUIs and don't offer them ;) [11:43]
jester1up_the_irons: Yeah, that's why I'm here :D [11:44]
up_the_ironsjester1: :) [11:44]
ballenall sorts of happy faces flying around here
bleh, need to VPN into work, bbl 		[11:44]
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mhoranup_the_irons: Have you done anything with VirtIO? [12:17]
up_the_ironsmhoran: my Linux VMs run virtio network drivers
that's about it 		[12:17]
mhoranNo experience with the block drivers? [12:18]
up_the_ironsmhoran: haven't tried the block ones yet [12:18]
mhoranNifty.
I'm trying to get an idea of KVM performance vs. Xen.
Paravirt, really. 		[12:20]
up_the_ironsmhoran: benchmarks will probably show Xen / paravirt beating KVM for Linux (I hear FreeBSD under Xen runs really slow). but as far as "real world use" is concerned, I haven't "felt" KVM be any slower. [12:23]
mhoranYeah.
I'm trying to prepare myself to argue moving to KVM. But I can't get project time for that until next year, probably. 		[12:24]
up_the_ironsah [12:24]
mhoranI reallllly want live migration.
It would save us so much work. 		[12:25]
up_the_ironsI moved one of my big sites (pledgie.com) from Xen to KVM and it got a HUGE speed improvement. albeit, I doubt this was KVM's fault, it was just a much larger, beefier, and speedier box ;)
mhoran: Xen has live migration in case you can't switch to KVM. probably not as cool, but w/e ;) 		[12:25]
mhoranYeah, we were planning to use it, but it's busted up in every kernel out there.
They're stuck on 2.6.18, which we experienced NFS issues with. 		[12:26]
up_the_ironslive migration is probably the most awesome thing I've seen in about the last 10 years
brb 		[12:27]
mhoranAll the other kernels have some bug or another which makes either live migration not work, or something else. [12:27]
jeevslicehost doesn't sound good
lets go in there and spam #arpnetworks !!!
haha just kidding 		[12:39]
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up_the_ironsmhoran: ah yeah, i can understand that. I had nfs issues as well, crashed the whole box
so that sucks, you can do live migrations at all
*can't
you need KVM :) 		[12:57]
mhoranYeah. It really sucked. Things seemed fine during our testing, but when the developers started hitting the vcs partition, everything went to shit.
Awful.
Couldn't really find what it was, but something was fixed between 2.6.18 and the 2.6.19 Feisty Xen kernel.
SO that's what we're running. :( 		[12:59]
up_the_ironsone thing I really didn't like about Xen was how you had to use *their* kernel
that was fine before we had hardware support for VMs; but now with Intel VT and AMD-V, screw that 		[13:00]
mhoranYeah. KVM is pretty cool in that regard. [13:01]
up_the_ironsXen brought us VMs 5 years before the procs support hardware virt
so Xen had it's place
but now... it seems no longer needed IMO 		[13:02]
mhoranYeah, aside from the minor performance penalty, which I'm sure will go away as VT, etc, get better.
Plus the paravirt network and block are a step in the right direction.
There are so many standards out there for paravirt now though that it's going to be a pain when one of them catches on.
VMware has theirs, KVM has theirs ... then there's Xen, etc. 		[13:03]
up_the_ironsyeah [13:04]
mhoranIt'd be great if there were some standard. [13:04]
up_the_ironsyeah
even without paravirt, things run real fast 		[13:04]
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ballenblah [15:25]
up_the_ironsbleh [15:26]
mhoranblurgh [15:26]
ballenfecking fall weather [15:27]
mhoranBest time of the yaer. [15:27]
ballenand coffee is seeming to be doing little for this tired issue of mine today [15:27]
up_the_ironsballen: there's a cure for tiredness ya know; it's called sleep ;) [15:29]
mhoranNever heard of it. [15:29]
up_the_ironsactually i don't think they make it anymore [15:29]
mhoranHaha. [15:29]
ballenmeh plenty of time for sleep when you're dead [15:31]
mhoranExactly.. [15:32]
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nuke^evening
:) 		[15:49]
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ballenbleh upto 77 pages [17:37]
up_the_ironscongrats [17:40]
ballenso much more
todo
going to be so lame to edit 		[17:40]
up_the_ironsif you want a proof read when you're done, send it over. although i don't guarantee i'll finish ;) [17:42]
ballenheh thanks man [17:42]
up_the_ironsnp [17:43]
ballenmight be quite a boring read
nothing to terribly exciting in it
but when has backup been all that exciting 		[17:44]
up_the_ironsthat's why i reserve the right to stop at any page ;) [17:45]
ballenhah
k 		[17:46]
up_the_ironsbut what i do read, i guarantee you i'll be meticulous; you'll hate me in the end
;) 		[17:46]
ballenhah
great 		[17:46]
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ballengrep TODO *.tex | wc -l
-> 20 bleh 		[17:51]
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ballenI want to rent my own office
tired of working from home
gets sooo lame after awhile
social interaction go waaaaay down 		[18:29]
up_the_ironsballen: being alone in an office is kinda the same though [18:30]
ballenyea true, but it'd get me out of the house each day
and I'd be working and living in two seperate spots 		[18:30]
up_the_ironsballen: yeah, that's quite important
ballen: rents should be pretty cheap now too 		[18:33]
ballencabin fever like a mofo [18:33]
up_the_ironsheh [18:33]
ballenyea
but its wasted money
really what would be idea is if a company has an open room, don't really need an entire building
although I could sleep there if I had the whole space 		[18:33]
up_the_ironsballen: there *are* buildings like that.. you just rent a cube. and you're right, it hits you monetarily
so you gotta make it worth it 		[18:36]
ballenyea [18:36]
up_the_ironsi had an office for 5 years that cost me almost $2K per month. man, that was some money in the garbage. but I gotta say, it was a good feeling having a nice office, brining clients in, meeting new people in the building; people tend to like that [18:37]
ballenyea definitely [18:37]
up_the_ironsi also was in a partnership where we rented a ghetto office for like $250; was a big contrast ;) [18:37]
ballenhah
250 sounds about right 		[18:37]
mhoranballen: We have Betahouse in Boston.
Pay a few hundred a month for a desk in an office with others doing the same.
It's pretty cool. 		[18:39]
ballenthats nifty
not anywhere near Boston 		[18:39]
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parlance
noun
for the character of Lyndsay-Ann, she uses her most annoying Valley girl parlance:
love the example is OS X's dictionary
in* 		[19:00]
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mhoranHaha. [19:12]
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baklavamaybe up_the_irons should buy a cube, then slice it up and sell virtual offices [20:09]
ballenhah [20:10]
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ballenup_the_irons: get FreeBSD migration goodness yet? [21:51]
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up_the_ironsbaklava: hahahahah
ballen: nope; i don't think that is gonna get traction until I get two additional boxes up and running. there's just nothing I can do with my current ones w/o disturbing production VMs (e.g. upgrade the whole enchilada) 		[22:53]
ballenah
right on
bleh I need to figure out a good permissions scheme that is translatable into key/value db world
oh so you know the Ohm lib I talked about 		[22:56]
up_the_ironsyeah [23:03]
ballenits made by the Reddit guys and actually runs the site
actually nvm
I'm retarded they just made a reddit clone 		[23:03]
up_the_ironsoh, haha [23:06]
ballenhttp://github.com/monkrb/reddit-clone/
they also my the Monk framework, which is Ohm + Sinatra
make* 		[23:06]
up_the_ironsballen: proposed permission scheme: think like a hardware programmer -- have a key for "permissions" and value is a bit-mask of permissions
Ohm + Sinatra? I c 		[23:07]
ballenalready I guess I should explain the problem a little more
yea plus a number of other libs
so I have a users model
which has a friends set
I have a post's model
that can either be public
friends_view only
I'm trying to get all the posts a user can see
which is the public
and any post created by a friend
public is easy
find posts that is friend_view only
with @user.friends.include?(owner_id) 		[23:07]
up_the_ironsup_the_irons has nothing [23:11]
ballenyou have to check each story
err post
which means a call the db for every single friend_view story
or
one big var of all friend_post stories
which you iterate through
I could start from the other end
search for all stories owner_id that is a friend
but as your number of friends increase that sucks
aha
if I keep a index in the User model of all that user's stories
hmm
there was something there I know it 		[23:11]
up_the_ironslol
ballen: i think key/value simply means duplicating a lot of data in exchange for speed. I see scripts to rebuild / verify "indexes" in your future 		[23:16]
ballenhmm I refuse to accept that [23:18]
up_the_ironshaha [23:18]
ballenok, so Redis has a few nifty commands for sets
SUNION
returns the union between sets
SDIFF returns the diff between sets
also SINTER, returns the intersection 		[23:18]
up_the_ironsnifty [23:21]
ballenso if I had an set on each friends posts
better yet a set of friend only posts
for each friend
I'd still have to iterate through each friend
and then merge
and sort
by created_at 		[23:22]
up_the_ironsand why are you using a key/value store for this then? ;) [23:25]
ballenits fast
extreamly freaking fast
and it will scale 		[23:25]
up_the_ironsi c [23:27]
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ballenNeatgear?
Netgear rather 		[23:49]
up_the_ironsballen: yeah, i was actually looking at the GSM7352S
but i've just had a lot of Netgear lemons over the years 		[23:53]
ballenyea
what the hell is the version of the 2960-48 thats all gig? 		[23:54]
up_the_ironsballen: i think all 2960's are gig
aren't they? 		[23:55]
ballennah not at all
http://www.cisco.com/en/US/prod/collateral/switches/ps5718/ps6406/product_data_sheet0900aecd80322c0c.html

2960G-48-TC-L
http://www.cdw.com/shop/products/default.aspx?EDC=850880 		[23:55]
up_the_ironsoh i c [23:56]
ballengood switches [23:56]
up_the_ironsthe 2960G <-- the G is the key [23:56]
ballenea
yea
you'd think someone would have it cheaper than CDW 		[23:56]
up_the_ironsonly ebay
;) 		[23:59]
ballenbad idea with Cisco switches FYI
lots of fakes
and equipment that has sketch IOS images 		[23:59]
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